Moyes So Far!

[Chesterlestreet]

We haven't been sharp so far, from the board to everyone who matters at the club, including the players and Moyes. I think pretty much everyone has already accepted that this season will be different, but how different? Consider this, our biggest pull as a club was Ferguson and the guarantee of trophies. One is gone, and with it the other. Even then we were hardly the preferred destination of top players. We don't pay as much as sugar daddy clubs or Real/Barca, we aren't as well supported in England as Bayern are in Germany, neither are we located in the most glamorous of cities. The likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and City have the resources to sustain their success if they get ahead of us into the top four. Falling outside of top four may start a downward spiral, and that is my biggest worry. Where will we draw the line?

Of course it's a worry. It would be a worry for me regardless of who was in charge, though. The Fergie era is over. It's a brand new game. I think we've done the right thing in appointing Moyes, though. I choose to remain optimistic about the whole thing - and to me personally it isn't the end of the world to go through a rough patch. We may have to do just that in order to get things right.

Falling out of the top four this season is not a disaster. Not unless the Glazers show up in brand new colours. If they remain behind Moyes and give him the means to strengthen according to his needs - we will bounce back from a 5th place finish. I'm not worried about that at all. We won't turn into Liverpool overnight. If we draw the line, as you say, at 4th - and many have suggested we should - it might mean going down a very hazardous route: Start a change and chop process that could leave us in turmoil for years to come.

 

[pocco]

I just don't agree that he has the right to claim this squad needs more star players to win a competition he's only coached one game in.

Well it doesn't take a genius to see that's the case.

Posters on here make claims like this all the time and half of them probably haven't even played football before.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I read that Moyes decided to get rid of Steele? That doesn't make sense considering the good work he has done with DDG... also saying we don't have a good chance to win the Champions League because we are a few World Class players short is strange as he had a whole summer to try and sort that out....

 

[Kingcon]

Well it doesn't take a genius to see that's the case.

Posters on here make claims like this all the time and half of them probably haven't even played football before.

You're right, I'm no genius or Sunday football legend but I see the irony in his statement. The question is does Moyes see it?

 

[pocco]

You're right, I'm no genius or Sunday football legend but I see the irony in his statement. The question is does Moyes see it?

I don't see where you're going with this. Just because Moyes is inexperienced in Europe, it doesn't mean that he doesn't know what is required at that level.

 

[B20]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

 

[.Rossi]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

No he's ticked them all been absolutely honest.

Take that as a criticism of Moyes if you wish, just my opinion

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

Well the one positive thing about Moyes is he hasn't signed players for the sake of signing them. We needed a central midfielder and while Fellaini worst case may be out of his depth at United, he is still better than what we have.

I thought Hodgson was a joke at Liverpool when he signed Konchesky. He wasn't even good enough for a midtable club. So in that respect it could be worse.

 

[pocco]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

The thing is, in preseason most people accepted it might take a while to get going. They acepted that we had a hard start and would feck up a bit. Now it has happened they just lose their shit.

I'd never judge any manager after so few games.

 

[Shark]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

There are very few managers that could have gotten out of the run of fixtures we've had without looking slightly out of his depth to be honest. That's not an excuse, but surely they have to be taken into consideration when assessing his start in charge. The West Brom loss is the only real shock so far, but as shit as our performance was, we could have won it with some of the chances we had.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'd say he is still a bit undecided, maybe confused. In fact I might even stretch it to frightened to make drastic changes to a winning team. The legacy is weighing him down. His strategy is non-existent and I think he just hopes players know what to do in the field. Substitutions are awful and looks like he just makes them up on the spot. The players are trying to take it a bit easy too and he needs to steel up and give them shit.

It may get better in time, or maybe not!

 

[Bestie07]

The thing is, in preseason most people accepted it might take a while to get going. They acepted that we had a hard start and would feck up a bit. Now it has happened they just lose their shit.

I'd never judge any manager after so few games.

Anybody who judges the manager after 6 games is a moron.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

There are very few managers that could have gotten out of the run of fixtures we've had without looking slightly out of his depth to be honest.

I can understand Liverpool, City & Chelsea. after those, WBA is the kind of match that managers relax in. Maybe he just underestimated them a bit and it cascaded down to players attitude.

 

[Revan]

Will you explain to me then why SAF picked a bad manager to replace him? Just doing his mate a favour? Wants us to fail?

Where did I said that Moyes is a bad manager in the first place? Can you find it for me, cause I surely can't.

 

[pocco]

I'd say he is still a bit undecided, maybe confused. In fact I might even stretch it to frightened to make drastic changes to a winning team. The legacy is weighing him down. His strategy is non-existent and I think he just hopes players know what to do in the field. Substitutions are awful and looks like he just makes them up on the spot. The players are trying to take it a bit easy too and he needs to steel up and give them shit.

It may get better in time, or maybe not!

That's quite a conclusion to come to after so few games.

 

[Ramshock]

That's quite a conclusion to come to after so few games.

Its the Caf everybody knows everything after a few short games

 

[pocco]

That's good as long as manager is good. If Moyes fails and we find a good manager who is loyal (cough cough, Klopp) then wonderful. But just hiring someone for the sake that he's loyal doesn't sound very smart to me. Could be wrong, I know, but also I could be right. There aren't many cases of loyal succesful managers, we had the luck of having two of them, doesn't mean that we have now the third one (or we'll have it in the foreseeable future)

Here you go, Revan. You imply numerous times here that Moyes isn't a good manager.

 

[Revan]

Here you go, Revan. You imply numerous times here that Moyes isn't a good manager.

And where did I implied there that Moyes isn't good?

 

[B20]

Well the one positive thing about Moyes is he hasn't signed players for the sake of signing them. We needed a central midfielder and while Fellaini worst case may be out of his depth at United, he is still better than what we have.

I thought Hodgson was a joke at Liverpool when he signed Konchesky. He wasn't even good enough for a midtable club. So in that respect it could be worse.

ugh, don't remind me.

“There aren’t many quality left-backs around in the world, never mind in England – so to find an English one who can go straight into the team without any adjustment problems is a big advantage.”​

 

[Bestie07]

That's good as long as manager is good. If Moyes fails and we find a good manager who is loyal (cough cough, Klopp) then wonderful. But just hiring someone for the sake that he's loyal doesn't sound very smart to me. Could be wrong, I know, but also I could be right. There aren't many cases of loyal succesful managers, we had the luck of having two of them, doesn't mean that we have now the third one (or we'll have it in the foreseeable future)

Mostly it's the big clubs who decide to part company with their managers rather than the other way around though. Most managers are unable to stay at a club for as long as Sir Alex did was because they are unable to sustain the level of performance that comes to be expected of their team as a result of the standards set by their previous teams. While we have cases of managers walking away, like Guardiola, mostly though it's the clubs who sack their managers when they are at a trough in terms of performances. A manager should not be hired just on the basis of loyalty. Moyes showed in his time at Everton that he could rebuild a team, get rid of players and get new ones, bed them in and all this without any significant drop in their standard of play. That's the quality that we need from a manager, not that he didn't piss off to Spurs or Schalke.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

Seems impossible for many to bear this in mind. It's been more of a meltdown so far than I had honestly expected. I foolishly believed people would be a little more patient.

 

[Revan]

Mostly it's the big clubs who decide to part company with their managers rather than the other way around though. Most managers are unable to stay at a club for as long as Sir Alex did was because they are unable to sustain the level of performance that comes to be expected of their team as a result of the standards set by their previous teams. While we have cases of managers walking away, like Guardiola, mostly though it's the clubs who sack their managers when they are at a trough in terms of performances. A manager should not be hired just on the basis of loyalty. Moyes showed in his time at Everton that he could rebuild a team, get rid of players and get new ones, bed them in and all this without any significant drop in their standard of play. That's the quality that we need from a manager, not that he didn't piss off to Spurs or Schalke.

In fact this wasn't as simple as that. Guardiola didn't just walk away, there are numerous reports that Rosell pushed all the Cruyff loyalists to leave the club. And going by Pep's interviews that seems to defenitely be the case.

Back to the point, I agree with you. We need quality from the manager, if he's doing good than great. If he is doing good and is very loyal (SAF) then wonderful. Moyes did a superb job at Everton (though the style of play wasn't good) and overachieved in most of seasons with them, finishing higher than they had a right to finish (considering the amount of money they spend compared to other teams). Can he replicate it to United? No-one knows but the first signs are worrying and he has done an awful job in these first few months.

 

[Commadus]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...s-rejected-sir-alex-fergusons-advice-on-staff

Just what I thought.

 

[finneh]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

To be perfectly honest, no.

However everything could easily change with 5-6 good performances. It is entirely possible that we'll win our next 5 Premier League games, which would probably put us 2-3 points off the top of the table with the hardest set of fixtures of all the top teams. The biggest thing is to get back to winning; if Moyes thinks he's under pressure now, then his head will truly be spinning if he doesn't get 10 or 12 points against Sunderland, Southampton, Stoke and Fulham.

 

[Bestie07]

In fact this wasn't as simple as that. Guardiola didn't just walk away, there are numerous reports that Rosell pushed all the Cruyff loyalists to leave the club. And going by Pep's interviews that seems to defenitely be the case.

Back to the point, I agree with you. We need quality from the manager, if he's doing good than great. If he is doing good and is very loyal (SAF) then wonderful. Moyes did a superb job at Everton (though the style of play wasn't good) and overachieved in most of seasons with them, finishing higher than they had a right to finish (considering the amount of money they spend compared to other teams). Can he replicate it to United? No-one knows but the first signs are worrying and he has done an awful job in these first few months.

Just took Guardiola's name off the top of my head, don't know what goes on inside those Spanish clubs. Anyhow, we haven't covered ourselves in glory so far, from the board down to the players, but it's still too early to be drawing any conclusions. Let's see which direction our season turns after the international break.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Anybody who judges the manager after 6 games is a moron.

Anyone who makes a concrete conclusion on a manager after 6 games is a 'moron'.

However, Moyes can be judged on what he has done so far, and it isn't looking so good. That said, he will be given time and hopefully we can start improving soon.

 

[pocco]

And where did I implied there that Moyes isn't good?

In just about every sentence in the quoted paragraph. You basically said he's been hired because he'd be loyal, but someone like Klopp is good as well as being loyal too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

Well he hasn't come out with the toe-curling middle-management motivational drivel that punctuated your manager's interviews at Liverpool to date. Taking part in a documentary in which it was revealed a massive self-portrait dominates one of his walls at home and being caught on camera blatantly copying a motivational tactic used by another manager would be hard to take too. Whose name was in that envelope anyway?

So yeah, when you look at like that, it's not all doom and gloom.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Well he hasn't come out with the toe-curling middle-management speak that punctuated your manager's interviews at Liverpool to date. Taking part in a documentary in which it was revealed a massive self-portrait dominates one of his walls at home and being caught on camera blatantly copying a motivational tactic used by another manager would be hard to take too. Whose name was in that envelope anyway?

So yeah, when you look at like that, it's not all doom and gloom.

 

[B20]

Whose name was in that envelope anyway?

Downing had to be in there. Had to be.

 

[Bestie07]

Anyone who makes a concrete conclusion on a manager after 6 games is a 'moron'.

However, Moyes can be judged on what he has done so far, and it isn't looking so good. That said, he will be given time and hopefully we can start improving soon.

Yeah. We haven't had the best of starts in the post SAF era, but this was always a possibility too. I'm hopeful he'll turn it around before too long, just wishing that we aren't too far off the pace by then.

 

[Eto'odinho]

Well the one positive thing about Moyes is he hasn't signed players for the sake of signing them. We needed a central midfielder and while Fellaini worst case may be out of his depth at United, he is still better than what we have.

Who exactly is Fellaini better than? In what role?

 

[Rozay]

Well the one positive thing about Moyes is he hasn't signed players for the sake of signing them. We needed a central midfielder and while Fellaini worst case may be out of his depth at United, he is still better than what we have.

I thought Hodgson was a joke at Liverpool when he signed Konchesky. He wasn't even good enough for a midtable club. So in that respect it could be worse.

Sadly, he hasn't signed them for the sake of needing them either, although that bit is likely to largely not be his fault.

 

[pocco]

Who exactly is Fellaini better than? In what role?

I reckon by the end of the season he'll be our second best midfielder. More reliable than Cleverley ans Anderson.

Going into the future, he'll become a solid back up if we bring in some top quality midfielders.

 

[Ekeke]

Serious question - Bearing in mind it is still to early to make a proper judgement etc. if you imagine sitting at the start of pre-season envisioning what a new manager at United would have to do to look properly out of his depth by now...

Are there any of those boxes Moyes hasn't ticked yet?

He's got a lot of making up to do. The only thing going in his favour so far was beating you in the cup with our 2nd string (at the time)

 

[Revan]

In just about every sentence in the quoted paragraph. You basically said he's been hired because he'd be loyal, but someone like Klopp is good as well as being loyal too.

Exvept that I was talking in general, not in a particular case. I said that being loyal shouldn't be the most important thing on hiring a manager, being good should. In Moyes case he is an unknown quality in top level who has done a brilliant job at Everton (though with negative tactics). Exvept SAF recommendation, there isn't nothing to suggest that he's a good manager at the highest level so he has to prove it. Until now he has done everything his doubters expected he'll do.

 

[Eto'odinho]

I reckon by the end of the season he'll be our second best midfielder. More reliable than Cleverley ans Anderson.

Going into the future, he'll become a solid back up if we bring in some top quality midfielders.

He is better than Anderson I will give him that but what is the point of shelling out vast sums of money on a player whose notable benchmark is being better than your backup/dead wood? Fellaini may possess better attributes than Cleverly but in terms of fitting our team, Clev is a better fit at the moment. It is very early days but Fellaini needs to justify his signing and selection in the first team IMHO. I would dread to think that we signed Fellaini for what he offers as an attacking midfielder or playing in the "hole"

 

[FlawlessThaw]

He is better than Anderson I will give him that but what is the point of shelling out vast sums of money on a player whose notable benchmark is being better than your backup/dead wood? Fellaini may possess better attributes than Cleverly but in terms of fitting our team, Clev is a better fit at the moment. It is very early days but Fellaini needs to justify his signing and selection in the first team IMHO. I would dread to think that we signed Fellaini for what he offers as an attacking midfielder or playing in the "hole"

I agree that he wasn't a great signing in my book and no other manager than Moyes would have spend near £27.5m for him. But I guess all I was trying to say there have been worse signings than him.

 

[Revan]

I agree that he wasn't a great signing in my book and no other manager than Moyes would have spend near £27.5m for him. But I guess all I was trying to say there have been worse signings than him.

If the judgement has already become 'it could have been worse' then really we are in deep trouble.

 

[Ekeke]

There have, but few by us. But thats only so far... And unfortunately thats the point

The very least we should have expected from our "premiership proven" combative midfield signing should have been that he could come in and more or less straight away do the very minimum in the role for the first team. He was doing more than that for Everton in their first games of the season, so he was fit and match fit.

Unfortunately he's managed to do less than the required minimum so even Anderson is playing instead of him

Eventually Fellaini should still be first choice and a good player for us. But damn, this current situation is exactly what we were trying to avoid by signing someone who played in England, who played with our current manager, who was playing quite well at the start of the season already, etc.

It really doesn't help Moyes, but Fellaini was his choice. Just not the first one.