Moyes So Far!

[gasmanc]

And Moyes's ratio at United is what....? 55%. If he can turn some of his losses into draws, and eke out a couple more wins on a season by season basis, he'd be matching the GOAT in win %.

IF
I think all this proves is the old saying is true, " there are 3 kinds of lies - lies, damned lies and statistics.

 

[Ubik]

In win %, clearly, given that is what the post, and the quoted post refer to.

But the Fergie figure includes all of the late 80s/very early 90s results so it's a kind of weird figure to aspire Moyes towards. Fergie's record in the premiership was more like 65%, and that was across two decades. Moyes is a mile off.

 

[Gladiator]

feck statistics

 

[Lu Tze]

But the Fergie figure includes all of the late 80s/very early 90s results so it's a kind of weird figure to aspire Moyes towards. Fergie's record in the premiership was more like 65%, and that was across two decades. Moyes is a mile off.

4 more wins a season at this point of the year is a mile off? Doesn't seem insane to me. If we can change 2 of our losses and draws to wins we're there. We've had ridiculously poor luck this season, some wank players, some awful performances, some uncommitted players(I'm looking at you, Vida) AND some managerial blunders- sure, i'll admit that - all of which have contributed to having a worse than usual season. Most of that will not happen again next season, I'm betting, due to the significant investment and rebalancing of the squad that will occur.

 

[SteveJ]

Moyes got his fingers burned when he described Liverpool as favourites before their game at Old Trafford. As Brendan Rodgers put it after his team's 3-0 win: "I would never say that at Liverpool, even if we were bottom." Nor, importantly, would Ferguson.

Moyes says it was truthful not defeatist. "José Mourinho says Manchester City are favourites for the title. I don't know if anyone has replied to that, but you [the media] were quite happy to reply to me saying it.

"You know the style I am. I try to be [honest]. Some of you don't write it the way I say it but that's the difference between me and you, possibly."

(Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/24/manchester-united-manchester-city-david-moyes

 

[Ubik]

4 more wins a season at this point of the year is a mile off? Doesn't seem insane to me. If we can change 2 of our losses and draws to wins we're there. We've had ridiculously poor luck this season, some wank players, some awful performances, some uncommitted players(I'm looking at you, Vida) AND some managerial blunders- sure, i'll admit that - all of which have contributed to having a worse than usual season. Most of that will not happen again next season, I'm betting, due to the significant investment and rebalancing of the squad that will occur.

This is like voodoo-management. Or Essien and his calculator. We've lost and drawn as many as we have this season because we've been shit. And it's been with much the same squad that won 28/38 the past couple of seasons.

 

[Stack]

This is like voodoo-management. Or Essien and his calculator. We've lost and drawn as many as we have this season because we've been shit. And it's been with much the same squad that won 28/38 the past couple of seasons.

And equally using the "this squad won the last seasons" is a convenient way of shuffling off to the side the differences and and changing issues in the squad from last season to this season.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

(Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/mar/24/manchester-united-manchester-city-david-moyes

I didn't have an issue with the comments leading up to the Liverpool game. They were favourites, for me, and it didn't bother me in the slightest that Moyes acknowledged it. I think he is attempting to maybe control fans expectations this season, he has been fairly straight forward in stating there'd be many bad results. I don't think he trusts some of the squad and maybe even himself at times.

 

[gasmanc]

4 more wins a season at this point of the year is a mile off? Doesn't seem insane to me. If we can change 2 of our losses and draws to wins we're there. We've had ridiculously poor luck this season, some wank players, some awful performances, some uncommitted players(I'm looking at you, Vida) AND some managerial blunders- sure, i'll admit that - all of which have contributed to having a worse than usual season. Most of that will not happen again next season, I'm betting, due to the significant investment and rebalancing of the squad that will occur.

4 more wins is 12 points, we would be 4th and in the title race, it's a massive margin.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

By the way, if we win tomorrow I'm pretty sure we're mathematically safe from relegation.

 

[Ubik]

And equally using the "this squad won the last seasons" is a convenient way of shuffling off to the side the differences and and changing issues in the squad from last season to this season.

No, it's a pertinent fact. It's the joint highest that any team has won over a 38 game season. It's useful to be reminded occasionally that the squad Moyes inherited isn't a basket-case.

 

[Sky1981]

I can't seems to fathom, why we are making it like some kind of quantum physics. To me it's quite simple

SAF : well... we know what's with him

Our Team : 4th-2nd on paper and quality wise. You might win if you're lucky and everything clicks, but 2nd-4th is the reasonable expectation

Moyes : Midtable manager
Our predicament : what happens when a midtable manager taking over a champion

Will Moyes comes good : I don't think so, or he would have shown us glimpse of changes, he has made no changes to our shit display all season. I don't think giving him 5 seasons will make him Pep or SAF

Let's just call it as it is : Moyes' having a shit season with United. Dragging up old records of Fergie's first 5 or win ration and stuffs won't change this fact, infact any mention of SAF's past will only embarasses Moyes as he is nowhere near SAF back then and presently.

Basically : Let's not argue whether or not Moyes is shit this season, that much is as clear as broad daylight. Let's just argue on whether you still trust him and whether he will come good.

 

[Gladiator]

No, it's a pertinent fact. It's the joint highest that any team has won over a 38 game season. It's useful to be reminded occasionally that the squad Moyes inherited isn't a basket-case.

agreed. our squad does have its flaws (arsenal and chelsea do too) but i feel the underwhelming performances this season have led some to believe our squad isn't very good which i think is misleading.

i like looking at league finishes more than points even though they are related. With points, you can get overly caught up in whether an improvement was made but if you dont look closely enough you may miss out on some of the factors which brings the overall total of pts to win the league down. In one season i believe it was around 80-82 points were enough to win the league one season. does that mean the top teams where shite then?

 

[Gladiator]

I didn't have an issue with the comments leading up to the Liverpool game. They were favourites, for me, and it didn't bother me in the slightest that Moyes acknowledged it. I think he is attempting to maybe control fans expectations this season, he has been fairly straight forward in stating there'd be many bad results. I don't think he trusts some of the squad and maybe even himself at times.

Everton fans couldnt stand this about him.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Everton fans couldnt stand this about him.

It would certainly become vexing over a decade or so. I think it was probably sensible for Moyes to act in such a manner for his first season here, however.

 

[Gladiator]

It would certainly become vexing over a decade or so. I think it was probably sensible for Moyes to act in such a manner for his first season here, however.

Against liverpool though? unnecessary. he doesn't have to acknowledge them as favorites whether they are or not. trying to control expectations to me communicates he's trying to buy himself more time.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Against liverpool though? unnecessary. he doesn't have to acknowledge them as favorites whether they are or not. trying to control expectations to me communicates he's trying to buy himself more time.

He probably is, lets be honest.

 

[Stack]

No, it's a pertinent fact. It's the joint highest that any team has won over a 38 game season. It's useful to be reminded occasionally that the squad Moyes inherited isn't a basket-case.

Again thats simply completely ignoring some clear circumstances surrounding everything.

 

[Gladiator]

Again thats simply completely ignoring some clear circumstances surrounding everything.

but how far are you willing to go to analyse each and every season? yes there are circumstances just as they are in every season. the fact is the team finished 11 points clear at the top. what's not as clear is why that happened. some say we were just more consistent without being great. others say the other top teams simply underperformed. so maybe the lower teams overperformed in some respects then?

 

[Stack]

but how far are you willing to go to analyse each and every season? yes there are circumstances just as they are in every season. the fact is the team finished 11 points clear at the top. what's not as clear is why that happened. some say we were just more consistent without being great. others say the other top teams simply underperformed. so maybe the lower teams overperformed in some respects then?

Your missing my point. Probably on purpose

 

[KiD MoYeS]

 

[Gladiator]

Your missing my point. Probably on purpose

nope. just elaborate

 

[Ubik]

Again thats simply completely ignoring some clear circumstances surrounding everything.

When people cite the quality of our squad as a mitigating circumstance for our current position, I don't see how it's anything but relevant. I'm not saying he should be matching that figure, I'm saying it's clearly quite a capable side. Certainly more than good enough for a top four finish, and certainly more than good enough to be comfortably ahead of Everton in the league, even with injury and form issues. Prior to this season, most wanted reinvestment in the side in order to compete with the best in europe again, and maintain our stranglehold on the premiership. Now it seems we need it just to get back into europe and to try and be within touching distance of the league leaders. I personally don't think our squad has got that much worse in seven months.

 

[Sky1981]

When people cite the quality of our squad as a mitigating circumstance for our current position, I don't see how it's anything but relevant. I'm not saying he should be matching that figure, I'm saying it's clearly quite a capable side. Certainly more than good enough for a top four finish, and certainly more than good enough to be comfortably ahead of Everton in the league, even with injury and form issues. Prior to this season, most wanted reinvestment in the side in order to compete with the best in europe again, and maintain our stranglehold on the premiership. Now it seems we need it just to get back into europe and to try and be within touching distance of the league leaders. I personally don't think our squad has got that much worse in seven months.

We've been dire since 2mths. It's not exactly 7 mths, hence I don't believe with this ageing issue, surely 2 mths into the new season doesn't make you suddenly turn into a pentioner

 

[Ubik]

We've been dire since 2mths. It's not exactly 7 mths, hence I don't believe with this ageing issue, surely 2 mths into the new season doesn't make you suddenly turn into a pentioner

Well yeah, I was just being generous and giving the length of the season so far.

 

[#07]

 

[Getsme]

No thanks.

 

[Kostur]

No thanks.

This. Having to hear his bullshit on telly from time to time is bad enough.

 

[Varun]

No thanks Nev. You can manage England for all I care but not United.

 

[Smores]

but how far are you willing to go to analyse each and every season? yes there are circumstances just as they are in every season. the fact is the team finished 11 points clear at the top. what's not as clear is why that happened. some say we were just more consistent without being great. others say the other top teams simply underperformed. so maybe the lower teams overperformed in some respects then?

We all know RvP carried us there last season and he's missed a large chunk this season. We were incredibly lucky with injuries to key players and given how fragile our winning formula was you can't ignore its effect this season.

If he gets a second season its only because the club understand the circumstances and they take some blame for transfer dealings

 

[Mainoldo]

We all know RvP carried us there last season and he's missed a large chunk this season. We were incredibly lucky with injuries to key players and given how fragile our winning formula was you can't ignore its effect this season.

If he gets a second season its only because the club understand the circumstances and they take some blame for transfer dealings

Well without RVP that squad lost the league on goal difference so not sure what your point is. RVP didnt gain us 11 points be real.

 

[Sky1981]

The thing with "past it" excuse is that normally a decline is a slow gradual process (especially for a team who just walked the league just 7mths ago)


An Ageing legs will start to run its course, and players won't be as sharp as he used to, more injury prone, and all other things you can atribute with being a year older. However, these should naturally be a slow and gradual process, if last year we walked the league, natural declining regression will put us somewhere between 2nd and 3rd (depending on how tight the race is). You do not simply slump from Champion to 7th in the space of 7 mths and blame it on ageing players.

Therefore I really can't accept the "Player has past it" excuse.

 

[soapythecat]

I wonder if Moyes will take any credit on here later, after we beat city? I'm sure the Caf can't wait to come on here and have a pop at Moyes should be get beat, and god forbid it should be a players fault if we do so, but I doubt it will be reflected on here if it is.
Looking forward to seeing Rooney starting up front again tonight. Hopefully, with Mata in behind him. I'd like to see Valencia have a run at Zabaletta down the right. Zabaletta is a class player but AV would have him for pace. We need to come out fighting from the off and forget about containing them and hitting them on the break, as they will be expecting this. Welbeck on the other side to AV would be fine with me. Wouldn't be too concerned with Kagawa starting out wide neither, but I thing both DW and AV offer more defensively. Big, big test for Buttner tonight.

 

[gasmanc]

We all know RvP carried us there last season and he's missed a large chunk this season. We were incredibly lucky with injuries to key players and given how fragile our winning formula was you can't ignore its effect this season.

If he gets a second season its only because the club understand the circumstances and they take some blame for transfer dealings

We've really struggled in the middle of the park and that's been cause for some real defensive disasters. The responsibility on Carrick has been far to great, he's seemingly been in charge of holding DM whilst also being the most creative player in the middle. Cleverley has been a passenger when he's played, Fellaini is more battering ram and spent a lot of time out, we've even tried Rooney in as a creative force (at the wrong times arguably). We've had Jones in there and Fletcher when fit to allow Carrick to go forward but Carricks been slightly out of form and it's looked massively disjointed and patched up all season long.
We had Giggs alongside Carrick V Olympiakos and we looked dangerous, Giggs played as a creative midfielder and was excellent, it does give a glimmer of hope that can we land ourselves a top creative mid that we can really push on under Moyes, get a midfield enforcer too (like Carvalho) and we should become more defensively sound also.
Our problems really are the same as our old ones under SAF no "midfield", Rio and Vidic have been played less and less even last year but that was more down to the emergence of Evans who generally partnered one of the two. We should have Smalling and hopefully Jones can be used correctly if we solve the main problems in midfield. It's no shocker that Evras getting hugely exposed either but excellent LB's there are plenty of around.
I have been revising my opinion of Moyes all the time and have recently decided to stop and just see how he does once he gets these players in that he's been chasing around Europe like Benny Hill. He has to deliver them though, I will be thoroughly pissed off if he's been chasing players across the globe only to miss out on them, when in reality he should have been using his time working to get the best from what he currently has.

 

[Sky1981]

We've really struggled in the middle of the park and that's been cause for some real defensive disasters. The responsibility on Carrick has been far to great, he's seemingly been in charge of holding DM whilst also being the most creative player in the middle. Cleverley has been a passenger when he's played, Fellaini is more battering ram and spent a lot of time out, we've even tried Rooney in as a creative force (at the wrong times arguably). We've had Jones in there and Fletcher when fit to allow Carrick to go forward but Carricks been slightly out of form and it's looked massively disjointed and patched up all season long.
We had Giggs alongside Carrick V Olympiakos and we looked dangerous, Giggs played as a creative midfielder and was excellent, it does give a glimmer of hope that can we land ourselves a top creative mid that we can really push on under Moyes, get a midfield enforcer too (like Carvalho) and we should become more defensively sound also.
Our problems really are the same as our old ones under SAF no "midfield", Rio and Vidic have been played less and less even last year but that was more down to the emergence of Evans who generally partnered one of the two. We should have Smalling and hopefully Jones can be used correctly if we solve the main problems in midfield. It's no shocker that Evras getting hugely exposed either but excellent LB's there are plenty of around.
I have been revising my opinion of Moyes all the time and have recently decided to stop and just see how he does once he gets these players in that he's been chasing around Europe like Benny Hill. He has to deliver them though, I will be thoroughly pissed off if he's been chasing players across the globe only to miss out on them, when in reality he should have been using his time working to get the best from what he currently has.

The hardest part of Manager's job in regards to transfer is valuation of the player IMHO.

Identifying player like Fabregas, Kroos, Gundogan, Vidal as improvement is only part of the trouble, actually valuing them and making an acceptable yet reasonable and not overpriced bids is another.

 

[gasmanc]

The hardest part of Manager's job in regards to transfer is valuation of the player IMHO.

Identifying player like Fabregas, Kroos, Gundogan, Vidal as improvement is only part of the trouble, actually valuing them and making an acceptable yet reasonable and not overpriced bids is another.

Well of course but isn't that Ed Woodwards job ? He was the one charged with cocking up the Summer deals.
Players you mention really need no identification, they're the very best in the respective positions we require, if Moyes flirtations with the agents comes to fruition I will be impressed.

 

[Melvyn]

Buying those players is one thing. Yes sure we'd all be over the moon to see top players arriving in the summer, but it isn't hard to identify those players. The biggest test for Moyes is whether he can use those players properly and play some semblance of good football, and not getting Kroos/Gundogan to hoof the ball up the pitch or out wide to Valencia. Also, as some posters have said, the aim for Moyes is not simply challenging for the title every season, but bringing us up to the standard where we can draw Bayern Munich in the CL and not immediately give up hope.

 

[#07]

 

[Varun]

Why have you put it in the Moyes thread? He never even mentions him. Simply says he was surprised at how poorly we played and how easily they won which is a nothing story as its true.

 

[Gladiator]

We all know RvP carried us there last season and he's missed a large chunk this season. We were incredibly lucky with injuries to key players and given how fragile our winning formula was you can't ignore its effect this season.

If he gets a second season its only because the club understand the circumstances and they take some blame for transfer dealings

this ignores the contributions other players had. especially when rvp had his goal drought.