Moyes So Far!

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Bilbo said:
Only idiots take anything said in press conferences seriously. They are a pain in every managers ass. In and out as quickly as possible.
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Well maybe. Sir Alex's christening City noisy neighbours stayed with us. Rafa's fact press conference seemed to have press serious consequences. Fergie dropping the line about squeaky bum time has lived long in the memory. Mourinho calling himself the special one etc.

adexkola said:
At least just state for the record that no matter what Moyes says, you will nitpick and debate and abuse him, until he starts to win consistently or is sacked. So I know who to avoid talking to from now on.
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I'll nitpick it if I don't think it sets the right tone.
 
SteveJ said:
FFS, Moyes may be doing extremely badly but let's not take leave of all our senses & slag him for literally nothing but spite: it'd be bloody hard to find someone in top-level football management as humble as David Moyes. Just look at his behaviour & sayings compared to some of our rivals' bosses BS and demeanour. 'Smug and arrogant', my ass...Absolute idiocy.
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You're right, of course.

I'll admit I'm getting fecking annoyed by just about everything the man does and says these days, but I also know a lot of my critiques are completely irrational. It stems from the fact that I absolutely hate that he is the manager of this club. I don't hate the person David Moyes. I really don't. But even though I don't hate him, I want him as far away from the club as possible. ASAP. I think a lot of fans share this view, and our irrational side rears it's ugly head when all that anger and disappointment with the man has been building up for the past 10 months. We, as United fans, aren't used to all this shite we're seeing on the pitch.

Just think of how fecking irrational you can sound when you're angry with your wife or your girlfriend. You tend to spout some serious fecking nonsense when you're already pretty riled up.

Our dislike for his managerial methods shouldn't cloud our judgement in all things related to the man David Moyes though. But it's damn hard to not nitpick when it's gotten to this point.
 
SteveJ said:
Yeah. How arrogant he is, admitting he was ashamed.
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Did I say it was arrogant? No, just that the timing is bad. They're still the same players that he needs to count on now, that produced those ashaming performances. I have nothing against gutsy press conferences, but such quotes, when according to many reports many players are unhappy with him, aren't really helping.
 
#07 said:
Well maybe. Sir Alex's christening City noisy neighbours stayed with us. Rafa's fact press conference seemed to have press serious consequences. Fergie dropping the line about squeaky bum time has lived long in the memory. Mourinho calling himself the special one etc.
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Of course some are memorable, but there are dozens every week across this league. My point being that some managers use the occasion to drop a soundbite or two, but I wouldn't ever choose to criticise a manager for the content. Seems like I'm in the minority though.
 
Bilbo said:
It might be a big if to many people at the moment, but if Moyes does turn this around I hope a lot of you will be man enough to admit you judged the situation far too early.
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Definitely agree and I along with at least 92% of the Caf would have to admit that they judged it too early. Personally feel it has gone too far now.
 
Anderson18 said:
Did I say it was arrogant? No, just that the timing is bad. They're still the same players that he needs to count on now, that produced those ashaming performances. I have nothing against gutsy press conferences, but such quotes, when according to many reports many players are unhappy with him, aren't really helping.
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Another example where he will be picked apart whatever he says. He called us 'magnificent' on Wednesday and was ridiculed. He critices the team and its bad man-management.

Its about 0.001% of the total dialogue that he has with our players. I doubt they will judge him solely on that.
 
Bilbo said:
Another example where he will be picked apart whatever he says. He called us 'magnificent' on Wednesday and was ridiculed. He critices the team and its bad man-management.

Its about 0.001% of the total dialogue that he has with our players. I doubt they will judge him solely on that.
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By whom...? I was pleased he said we were magnificent and that he is saying we can win the European Cup. He's the manager of Man Utd. His job is to boost team morale and set out ambitious targets. Personally I think he's been too critical of the team at times and showed too much weakness and nervousness. It may very well seem delusional but Sir Alex wasn't above making outrageous claims to boost his players' confidence. And its a shot of confidence above all that the squad needs right now.
 
Bilbo said:
There are a lot of posters on here completely consumed by their dislike for Moyes these days. Every page of every thread is now littered with crap recurring jokes and agendas.

It might be a big if to many people at the moment, but if Moyes does turn this around I hope a lot of you will be man enough to admit you judged the situation far too early.
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it's getting tedious now...some people are really obsessed
 
Bilbo said:
Another example where he will be picked apart whatever he says. He called us 'magnificent' on Wednesday and was ridiculed. He critices the team and its bad man-management.

Its about 0.001% of the total dialogue that he has with our players. I doubt they will judge him solely on that.
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No, of course not but honestly do you think they played with so much passion for Moyes or because it was the CL and the last meaningful match? I do believe that some players aren't his biggest fan and such quotes can simply do some damage. Why even risk the possibility?

If he wants to talk about this season and what he really feels, he should do it next season when everything's hopefully fine. But after a horrendous year so far with one good game I think he should play it safe and just say that he is happy for the fans.
 
I think the players are just still bewildered by SAF leaving. But it's time for them to get over it. He's gone, Mourinho isn't coming, Klopp isn't coming, so accept Moyes is the manager, stop feeling sorry for yourselves, play like it really means something like you did against Olympiakos. Small steps but we can build up some form, we have plenty of quality. The players just have to keep playing like we have to win, giving 100% like they did, and take it from there. If they do there is hope for Moyes yet.
 
Adebesi said:
I think the players are just still bewildered by SAF leaving. But it's time for them to get over it. He's gone, Mourinho isn't coming, Klopp isn't coming, so accept Moyes is the manager, stop feeling sorry for yourselves, play like it really means something like you did against Olympiakos. Small steps but we can build up some form, we have plenty of quality. The players just have to keep playing like we have to win, giving 100% like they did, and take it from there. If they do there is hope for Moyes yet.
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Or if they're very good players they might leave if they think he's a bit useless. They don't just have to love with Moyes as their manager.
 
Bilbo said:
There are a lot of posters on here completely consumed by their dislike for Moyes these days. Every page of every thread is now littered with crap recurring jokes and agendas.

It might be a big if to many people at the moment, but if Moyes does turn this around I hope a lot of you will be man enough to admit you judged the situation far too early.
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Of course, but that same thing has been said since before Christmas and the arrow has continuously pointed in the wrong direction since Moyes took over. It's reasonable to assume Moyes will never be good enough, or at least won't come good within a period of time that we can afford to give him.

I'll gladly admit that seeing him go is at the top of my realistic wish list (PL and CL therefore not included) and that I wake up every day hoping to read the news about his sacking. Any job he might be able to do for us in the future can be done much better and much quicker by more capable people out there, so why should we persist with him? There's nothing stopping us from upgrading this summer apart from the ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude amongst the higher-ups at the club, and I don't think that's a good enough reason.
 
I'll happily eat my word if Moyes succeeds-as I expect Moyes's supporters will do if he gets sacked before his six year contract expires. Deal?
 
Red Stone said:
Of course, but that same thing has been said since before Christmas and the arrow has continuously pointed in the wrong direction since Moyes took over. It's reasonable to assume Moyes will never be good enough, or at least won't come good within a period of time that we can afford to give him.

I'll gladly admit that seeing him go is at the top of my realistic wish list (PL and CL therefore not included) and that I wake up every day hoping to read the news about his sacking. Any job he might be able to do for us in the future can be done much better and much quicker by more capable people out there, so why should we persist with him? There's nothing stopping us from upgrading this summer apart from the ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude amongst the higher-ups at the club, and I don't think that's a good enough reason.
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Unless there's a sustained period of good form for us between now and the end of the season, I don't see that being evident come May.
 
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Red Stone said:
Of course, but that same thing has been said since before Christmas and the arrow has continuously pointed in the wrong direction since Moyes took over. It's reasonable to assume Moyes will never be good enough, or at least won't come good within a period of time that we can afford to give him.

I'll gladly admit that seeing him go is at the top of my realistic wish list (PL and CL therefore not included) and that I wake up every day hoping to read the news about his sacking. Any job he might be able to do for us in the future can be done much better and much quicker by more capable people out there, so why should we persist with him? There's nothing stopping us from upgrading this summer apart from the ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude amongst the higher-ups at the club, and I don't think that's a good enough reason.
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Seeing his sacking will probably end up as our only highlight from this season.
 
Adebesi said:
I think the players are just still bewildered by SAF leaving. But it's time for them to get over it. He's gone, Mourinho isn't coming, Klopp isn't coming, so accept Moyes is the manager, stop feeling sorry for yourselves, play like it really means something like you did against Olympiakos. Small steps but we can build up some form, we have plenty of quality. The players just have to keep playing like we have to win, giving 100% like they did, and take it from there. If they do there is hope for Moyes yet.
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I'm not sure they are bewildered still, I mean it was last May for goodness sakes. That is nearly a year. Some of Moyes' players at Everton where with him for years and they weren't or aren't bewildered by their new manager.

The only thing they were perhaps bewildered to begin with was being told Moyes was their new manager and not Mourinho. Since then I just feel they have genuinely not been inspired by him. Let's face it, he hardly projects confidence and charisma.

I totally agree that they need to take their heads from up their arses though.
 
dev1l said:
If I m not mistaken it took Klopp more than 10 months to convert the 'underperforming' winger . ?
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No, it didn't. At the end of his first season at Dortmund he was voted the third best transfer of Bundesliga.
 
Adebesi said:
I think the players are just still bewildered by SAF leaving. But it's time for them to get over it. He's gone, Mourinho isn't coming, Klopp isn't coming, so accept Moyes is the manager, stop feeling sorry for yourselves, play like it really means something like you did against Olympiakos. Small steps but we can build up some form, we have plenty of quality. The players just have to keep playing like we have to win, giving 100% like they did, and take it from there. If they do there is hope for Moyes yet.
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A wilful lack of effort on the part of the players has been the overriding cause for where United presently finds itself, is that what you are suggesting?
 
Wilful isn't the word I would use. I don't blame the players per se, i think they are still bewildered. It was a year ago yes but he was such a patriarchal figure, like a bereavement in a way, I think they're still feeling it, especially given they've gotten into a downward spiral where maybe they expect bad things to happen, their confidence goes. People say against Olympiakos, were they playing for the manager or because it was a CL game and it was the last roll of the dice. It doesn't matter, the question acknowledges there was a difference in effort or focus or something. That's what there needs to be in every game, if there is I don't see why we can't start winning games.

For me the tactics we play aren't bad enough to explain the results on their own.
 
Adebesi said:
For me the tactics we play aren't bad enough to explain the results on their own.
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I don't think the players would be as shellshocked if there was another top class manager in place. Saying that, I also don't think that tactics is the extent of our problems. And I don't think many maintain so. It's much discussed the failings in addressing our obvious midfield weakness. And motivation is a huge aspect of a manager's job - where SAF excelled. Dealing with the press. Etc. etc.
 
Red Stone said:
Of course, but that same thing has been said since before Christmas and the arrow has continuously pointed in the wrong direction since Moyes took over. It's reasonable to assume Moyes will never be good enough, or at least won't come good within a period of time that we can afford to give him.

I'll gladly admit that seeing him go is at the top of my realistic wish list (PL and CL therefore not included) and that I wake up every day hoping to read the news about his sacking. Any job he might be able to do for us in the future can be done much better and much quicker by more capable people out there, so why should we persist with him? There's nothing stopping us from upgrading this summer apart from the ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude amongst the higher-ups at the club, and I don't think that's a good enough reason.
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I totally agree with you, i don't think he's good enough and nothing since he took over convinced me he was the right man or a person who could correct the way things are going right now. His lack of adapting tactically to each game or stretches of games just kills me.
 
Gaeilge said:
With regard to your theory about the innovative ways to criticize Moyes, did you even read my OP that inevitably lead to your synopsis?

Relying on Giggs means we were relying on Giggs! Its not bloody rocket science is it? He had a fantastic game and showed how much of a genius he is. It does not negate the fact that he is 40 years old and we have not replaced him. If Giggs woke up tomorrow morning and his body just decided to do what any 40 year olds body does, where would we be with regard to a player coming in and doing the same job that he did? Answer that...

Your argument is pointless. He is/has been an amazing servant to our football club and I truely love him - as much as a straight male can love another straight male. He can not go on forever though. Moyes himself called him a 'freak' after the other game. He has completed his coaching badges and holds a coaching role at United. That is his aim. For you to argue that us having a 40 year old player in the mainframe of starter for a must win game, clearly show the evident lack of investment and the basis of my post.
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We have a different understanding of what the word "relying" implies. May be it is rocket science. This was his first game in ages, so that doesn't suggest we have relied on him or are relying on him.

We don't need to replace him, we need to buy a creative midfielder. Giggs can be a wisely used squad member. An inspiration to everyone in a youngish squad.

Well, he wakes up every morning and his body hasn't given up yet. Am I supposed to answer you based some hypothetical scenario where Giggs body suddenly starts behaving like any other 40 year olds? What if a 25 year midfielder wakes up and falls in the shower?

My argument is pointless? hmmm...

He doesn't have to retire for us to invest in someone else. That situation remains independent of whether Giggs stays or go. And if you remember an effort was made to sign a creative midfielder in the summer, so your assertion that Giggs has somehow stopped us from investing is nonsense.
 
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pocco said:
They can feel free to leave. The likes of Rooney and Mata didn't see him as a problem.
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And they will if they really want to.

I didn't say every player loves or hates Moyes. I'm disagreeing with the notion that the players should stop dreaming/thinking of playing under different managers and different tyles "because Moyes is here to stay" (which is a bit nuts given his performance as manager). They arent indebted to forever playing under Moyes whether they want to or not. Not sure how you can disagree with that.
 
Bilbo said:
Only idiots take anything said in press conferences seriously. They are a pain in every managers ass. In and out as quickly as possible.
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That's nonsense pal. Our last manager used the media to fantastic effect. Forget all the shit about mind games, he knew exactly when and how to use his press conferences to great effect.

Its not a criticism of moyes that he hasn't done that, i just disagree with your "only idiots take anything said in press conferences seriously" comment
 
I would argue that it is not a case of Fergies retirement being like a bereavement for the players. They started the season in good heart and it was quite touching the way Vidic handed the Charity Shield to Moyes at Wembly. As though the trophy was the first of many. The truth is that we have deteriorated over the months and it must be because the players have become disillusioned with all the chopping and changing, the tactics, the coaching, the lack of inspiration, the knowledge that many of them are not considered good enough etc etc. I maintain that the players have been feeling like many of us and given up on him, and no matter what Moyes does now they will never respect him and want him out.

Last Sunday was a catalyst though, all the hoo ha in the press and from the fans must have been a massive wake-up call for the club and something was done. I reckon Fergie had a lot to do with Giggs and Wellbeck playing. But will the win enable the team to kick on and rescue at least something in the PL? We shall see.
 
will be interesting to see if he uses the VP injury as a chance to play Mata properly in his best position. Rather than give Hernandez or Welbeck starts up top.
 
Sometimes I wonder where would United and Renties current league positions would be with the same players had United went for Mourinho and Renties had Moyes.

Right there and then I come to realization it's all down to the managers.
 
Triple.Threat said:
Sometimes I wonder where would United and Renties current league positions would be with the same players had United went for Mourinho and Renties had Moyes.

Right there and then I come to realization it's all down to the managers.
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Moyes is a modest man so he has that going for him though.
 
Triple.Threat said:
Sometimes I wonder where would United and Renties current league positions would be with the same players had United went for Mourinho and Renties had Moyes.

Right there and then I come to realization it's all down to the managers.
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There's simply no way that Abramovich would have appointed Moyes even if we got Mourinho, unfortunately, right now, it looks like a Russian oligarch knows more about appointing manager than the best manager ever. :(
 
I'm still of the belief that Moyes can only survive in this job if he brings in a new number 2 that will give him fresh ideas of how modern attacking tactics work....which is something Moyes is learning from scratch now......Anyone of Steve Clarke, Paul Clement or Carlos Quieroz would be a great number 2 to have at this club to help Moyes out.....I just think he would be digging his own grave if he didn't bring someone in with modern fresh ideas as P.Neville and Steve Round most certainly are not gonna add anything fresh
 
Fergie on Wenger's 1000th game yesterday 'Having also reached that milestone at one club, I cannot emphasize enough the level of dedication and resilience required.'

Are those the qualities he saw in Moyes?
 
Rednails said:
Fergie on Wenger's 1000th game yesterday 'Having also reached that milestone at one club, I cannot emphasize enough the level of dedication and resilience required.'

Are those the qualities he saw in Moyes?
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Moyes is definitely dedicated and arguably resilient, but unlike Wenger he's just not a top flight manager.
 
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