Moyes So Far!

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Mauzindark said:
Point is as long as they perform he can say whatever he likes. Fergie did it at times TBF and we never complained because he took full responsibility for losses as well instead of bemoaning luck and whatnot.
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Managers have a huge influence in results which is why they are paid so well. I think the real issue anyone would have a problem with Moyes saying "I've got us to the quarter-finals" is not because he is dismissing the players but because he is seemingly dismissing the poor results he has had all season.

In my view anyway, we got to the quarters in spite of Moyes but that is just a personal view.
 
FFS, Moyes may be doing extremely badly but let's not take leave of all our senses & slag him for literally nothing but spite: it'd be bloody hard to find someone in top-level football management as humble as David Moyes. Just look at his behaviour & sayings compared to some of our rivals' bosses BS and demeanour. 'Smug and arrogant', my ass...Absolute idiocy.
 
I agree Moyes is a modest man with much to be modest about. And that's the problem here, much rather have an arrogant man who has a lot to be arrogant about.

We would say the exact same thing about players as well.
 
pocco said:
Bullshit. Moyes isn't an arrogant person.

Also, did you watch the game on Wednesday? Moyes was urging the players to move up the pitch but they were so fecking scared/anxious, they weren't brave enough to do it. It's happened a few times actually this season.
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I agree with your defence of Moyes in that I also don't buy he is arrogant. But I don't buy that they retreated defensively despite his instructions when he took off two strikers and put on Fletcher and Fellaini. If anything, the other players on the pitch would likely just think 'he probably wants us to defend'.

Anyway, I didn't even come in here to criticise him, I'm just objecting to that particular point that implies he actually wanted attacking football once we went 3 up.
 
He actually said "I've got us to the quarter finals"? For crying out loud what is up with this man, more gaffes than the Republicans during the last presidential campaign.

Can somebody please abandon him in remotest Mongolia before the derby?

I shudder at the thought of what damage he might cause if given more time here.
 
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fecking hell;

Moyes is humble: WE NEED A CONFIDENT MANAGER, NOT THIS SHRINKING VIOLET

Moyes is confident: feckING ARROGANT PRAT, WE NEED SOMEONE WITH CLASS!

The guy cannot win.
 
Lu Tze said:
fecking hell;

Moyes is humble: WE NEED A CONFIDENT MANAGER, NOT THIS SHRINKING VIOLET

Moyes is confident: feckING ARROGANT PRAT, WE NEED SOMEONE WITH CLASS!

The guy cannot win.
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Despite the rest of your rant, I think the part I bolded is the problem most people have with him!
 
Lu Tze said:
fecking hell;

Moyes is humble: WE NEED A CONFIDENT MANAGER, NOT THIS SHRINKING VIOLET

Moyes is confident: feckING ARROGANT PRAT, WE NEED SOMEONE WITH CLASS!

The guy cannot win.
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Matter of fact he can win. By putting consistent performances on the pitch. None of us would complain if we were challenging for the title and he said I take huge credit for that. But losing to Newcastle, Sunderland, Olympiakos, Swansea, West Brom, Tottenham, Pool, Everton, Stoke in one season, going from Champions to 7th nah...
 
Mauzindark said:
Matter of fact he can win. By putting consistent performances on the pitch. None of us would complain if we were challenging for the title and he said I take huge credit for that. But losing to Newcastle, Sunderland, Olympiakos, Swansea, West Brom nah...
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So what do you want? Him to be constantly apologising for himself? He'd get destroyed for that too. As I said, you lot will criticise him regardless of what he says.
 
Lu Tze said:
So what do you want? Him to be constantly apologising for himself? He'd get destroyed for that too. As I said, you lot will criticise him regardless of what he says.
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Nope. Don't want him to apologise. Just need some balance. If he shirked responsibility in defeats he doesn't deserve it in the wins. If he wants credit for the performances he also has to take the sausage for the dross. Instead of blaming the FA, the players, luck and looking bemused.
 
Mersault said:
he's also said

"In some of the games I have felt ashamed because we haven't played well enough and I have not got a team out that has got a good enough result," adds the Scot. "I think the big thing on Wednesday was that I could look at the supporters in the face after the game.

"We had given them something to shout about. There was nothing to be ashamed of about our performance."

--
Quite honest.
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Those are the type of quotes that could get the fans back onside. People go on about the press conference being pointless and his words shouldn't matter but I disagree. Words can be very powerful, being honest can be powerful, hiding behind excuses however is the sign of a weak man.
 
I can't recall who it was precisely, however somebody once posted that they thought Moyes was the type to claim all the glory following a triumph and little of the responsibility in defeat, this is one of those time it would seem. You can well understand why he might struggle to lead champions with an attitude such as that.
 
pocco said:
Also, did you watch the game on Wednesday? Moyes was urging the players to move up the pitch but they were so fecking scared/anxious, they weren't brave enough to do it. It's happened a few times actually this season.
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This. He was asking our defenders to push up higher and not sit deeper, but I do not know what the heck the players were doing. Even under Fergie, they'd start to get deeper and deeper as the game went on and we were winning, so it's obviously something to do with the players. I'm guessing the lack of a midfield is to blame for that.
 
Lu Tze said:
So what do you want? Him to be constantly apologising for himself? He'd get destroyed for that too. As I said, you lot will criticise him regardless of what he says.
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You don't claim personal credit for something that was a team effort, and if an individual deserved particular recognition you don't put your bloody self at the top of the list.

He has little enough credit in the bank at this moment and should act accordingly, instead we've got Dave thinking he's Charlie Big Banana following a comeback that should never have been necessary in the first place.
 
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Freak said:
This. He was asking our defenders to push up higher and not sit deeper, but I do not know what the heck the players were doing. Even under Fergie, they'd start to get deeper and deeper as the game went on and we were winning, so it's obviously something to do with the players. I'm guessing the lack of a midfield is to blame for that.
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So he has to take personal responsibility for defeats - since he's the manager, but can't do so for victories?
 
Lu Tze said:
So he has to take personal responsibility for defeats - since he's the manager, but can't do so for victories?
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He can and should. However, there was a genuine attempt on his part to force his players to move higher up. The tv cameras showed that. So you can't really blame him for how deep we were sitting. I hate Moyes, but I don't think us sitting that deep was his fault.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I can't recall who it was precisely, however somebody once posted that they thought Moyes was the type to claim all the glory following a triumph and little of the responsibility in defeat, this is one of those time it would seem. You can well understand why he might struggle to lead champions with an attitude such as that.
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The same way that Hodgson did at Liverpool funnily enough. That's parallel number 2749 between the two of them.
 
Freak said:
He can and should. However, there was a genuine attempt on his part to force his players to move higher up. The tv cameras showed that. So you can't really blame him for how deep we were sitting. I hate Moyes, but I don't think us sitting that deep was his fault.
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Sorry pal, I quoted the wrong post, I entirely agree with you! I meant to quote @Nick 0208 Ldn.
 
There's nothing wrong with what he said, you turds. Stop analysing everything he utters and focus on in-match performance and results if you want to pan him.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
You don't claim personal credit for something that was a team effort, and if an individual deserved particular recognition you don't put your bloody self at the top of the list.

He has little enough credit in the bank at this moment and should act accordingly, instead we've got Dave thinking he's Charlie Big Banana whilst waving his flaccid cock in the faces of the media.
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It is a bit strange the way he speaks: 'I've got myself to the quarter-final'. I've started to think Moyes is just low on emotional intelligence. Honestly hadn't watched much of his press conferences prior to this season. But it is noticeable how he switches between 'I' and 'we'. I don't know if he does it deliberately, with some of the things he's come out with I genuinely wonder if he considers how what he says might impact the psychology of the squad. I remember Sir Alex saying how he studied Jock Stein's way of giving press conferences and how he would model his words on them as a way of pressuring or alleviating the pressure on his squad. Moyes doesn't come across as that type, he just says what comes to mind. I think he's so wrapped up in trying to hit personal milestones as Man Utd manager he sometimes forgets the rest of the team.
 
Bet you he was asked something like "You've steered United to the quarter-finals; can you get to the semis?", and then replied in the same vein. Reporters rarely mention (in the finished, published report) the lead-up questions to managers' replies, and there's a reason for that - clue: the replies can then be crafted into something controversial.
 
Now he is ashamed of some of the displays this season. What a great way to motivate your players that saved your ass on Wednesday.
 
SteveJ said:
Bet you he was asked something like "You've steered United to the quarter-finals; can you get to the semis?", and then replied in the same vein. Reporters rarely mention the lead-up questions to managers' replies, and there's a reason for that - clue: the replies can then be crafted into something controversial.
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Difference is managers like Fergie have already crafted responses aimed at their players. Its like when the press went bananas because Fergie basically put Carrick on the same level as Gerrard in his autobiography. Fergie obviously knew that Carrick would read it, so why would he talk him down? Why damage your own players confidence? Fergie's responses were always tactical.

I don't think Moyes thinks like that. He just gets asked a question and gives a response in kind. Its like Rodgers last week saying he'd never admit United were coming to Anfield as favourites. There's a thought process there about how you want your players to think about the game. I don't know if Moyes thinks like this. Or if he thinks on the level a United manager thinks. Maybe he thinks putting it all on himself is taking pressure off the players? I dunno.
 
#07 said:
Difference is managers like Fergie have already crafted responses aimed at their players. Its like when the press went bananas because Fergie basically put Carrick on the same level as Gerrard in his autobiography. Fergie obviously knew that Carrick would read it, so why would he talk him down? Why damage your own players confidence? Fergie's responses were always tactical.

I don't think Moyes thinks like that. He just gets asked a question and gives a response in kind. Its like Rodgers last week saying he'd never admit United were coming to Anfield as favourites. There's a thought process there about how you want your players to think about the game. I don't know if Moyes thinks like this. Or if he thinks on the level a United manager thinks. Maybe he thinks putting it all on himself is taking pressure off the players? I dunno.
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It's called being honest; and there's precious little of that around in modern football. Besides, Rodgers would say whatever kept his bosses and fans onside.
 
SteveJ said:
It's called being honest; and there's precious little of that around in modern football. Besides, Rodgers would say whatever kept his bosses and fans onside.
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Well maybe you're right? Maybe he's too honest. He strikes me a bit like a fella down the pub: You ask him a question he gives you a straightforward answer.

But there's none of the guile that Fergie had, or the strategically placed barbs Mourinho drops, or the small smile stuff Wenger does where he says something with an undertone but doesn't explicitly say it but everyone knows what he means.

Moyes probably needs to stop thinking like his press conferences are just Q&As and start treating them like every word will be analysed, like every player (and their agent) will be asked what does X mean. Cos as a top manager that's exactly what will happen.

If he doesn't get how his words will be taken its not a large wonder he cant seem to shift the psychology of the team.
 
An Irish Red said:
When Fergie came out and said that Van Persie could have been killed at Swansea, how many people cared? not many of us.

People are less critical when you are successful and much more critical when you are failing spectacularly, such is life.
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That was an obvious exaggeration designed to deflect from the fact we dropped points. Fergie did stuff like that routinely. If we made a catalogue of all the totally unbelievable things Fergie said as United boss we could package it and sell it at joke shops.

But again, as I've said before, that's what the manager's at the big clubs do. They're forever blaming someone, or creating some enemy their players can unite around. Even the quiet ones like Ancelotti do it all the time. Its just another trick they use to motivate their players.
 
There are a lot of posters on here completely consumed by their dislike for Moyes these days. Every page of every thread is now littered with crap recurring jokes and agendas.

It might be a big if to many people at the moment, but if Moyes does turn this around I hope a lot of you will be man enough to admit you judged the situation far too early.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I agree Moyes is a modest man with much to be modest about. And that's the problem here, much rather have an arrogant man who has a lot to be arrogant about.

We would say the exact same thing about players as well.
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You'd rather have Tim Sherwood then? He must be one of the most arrogant managers around.
 
SteveJ said:
FFS, Moyes may be doing extremely badly but let's not take leave of all our senses & slag him for literally nothing but spite:
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Yeah agreed. Calling someone out for using the first person, thats nothing.

Now if he starts talking about himself in the third person. That would be a sacking offense.
 
#07 said:
Well maybe you're right? Maybe he's too honest. He strikes me a bit like a fella down the pub: You ask him a question he gives you a straightforward answer.

But there's none of the guile that Fergie had, or the strategically placed barbs Mourinho drops, or the small smile stuff Wenger does where he says something with an undertone but doesn't explicitly say it but everyone knows what he means.

Moyes probably needs to stop thinking like his press conferences are just Q&As and start treating them like every word will be analysed, like every player (and their agent) will be asked what does X mean. Cos as a top manager that's exactly what will happen.

If he doesn't get how his words will be taken its not a large wonder he cant seem to shift the psychology of the team.
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Only idiots take anything said in press conferences seriously. They are a pain in every managers ass. In and out as quickly as possible.
 
At least just state for the record that no matter what Moyes says, you will nitpick and debate and abuse him, until he starts to win consistently or is sacked. So I know who to avoid talking to from now on.
 
Lu Tze said:
So he has to take personal responsibility for defeats - since he's the manager, but can't do so for victories?
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In the specific case of Moyes i think we've seen him cast too much of the blame and pressure upon the players already, he has all but waved the media on through with their criticism at times. I believe a leader should let their achievements speak for them whilst crediting those individuals who helped to bring such about, and if a share of the glory is to be claimed then do so at the end of the piece rather than during.
 
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