you're forgetting that fergie whined about this too (dropping off after taking a significant lead).
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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If I m not mistaken it took Klopp more than 10 months to convert the 'underperforming' winger . ?
The fact still remains that their will be many changes to our squad come this summer, which would articulate my point that their will be a noted improvement to the team once the necessary addition are made. As stated before, Ferguson knew this side needed a certain amount of re-building. His players were ageing and their was noted underperformers last campaign yet nothing was done to bolster or improve the side during the last summer window. I am not saying Moyes is the right man to rebuild. I am just proposing that there is no quick fix in football and fans should at least give him until winter once he makes the necessary changes to see whether their will be any improvement to our performance. The win last night against Olympiakos showed that he capable of being a progressive thinker by adding the likes of Giggs and Welbeck to the team, which as a result helped our qualification to the next round.
Ummmm if you want to give a manager time, he needs to earn it. THat's how fergie earned it. Although he had some dark times the work he was doing was enough for the board to stick with him. Giving time for time's sake in this day and age can put you in a precarious situation.
These arent necessarily his players but how often do managers walk into a job where they have "their" players? You need to show something in the short-term,medium-term to show you're worth giving faith in for the long term. Fergie bought himself some time when he brought us from bottom of the pile to 11th and then second next season. What moyes has done in the short term has been the complete opposite of that, so you can clearly see why some fans are ready for him to go. That's why in the medium term when results were on the slide, the board could at least point to the improvement he made on the team's position after he took over as well as the following season. What's to point to for Moyes?
This isn't a time for romanticism.
We both agree that there's no quick fix in football. However rebuilding requires big sums of money something we probably have one shot on. Who would you prefer to take that shot? A proven winner with a fantastic CV to show or the one who took United to 7th place and had never won anything in his life?
Matter of fact you are mistaken. It took Klopp 2 months and Piszczek made 41 appearances in his first season for Dortmund. He also converted an AM from Nurenberg into a Top 5 CM. A Bayern castaway into a Top 5 defender. And a unknown 22 year old from Poznan into a Top 5 striker. Kagawa "barely makes an appearance" into Bundesliga player of the year. But what the hell. Let's undermine other managers to make Davey boy look good.
are you saying that piszczek became one of the world s finest fullbacks in 2 months?
Aye.
I would prefer a manager that has a great philosophy and can bring long term stability to this club. Moyes has only one of these attributes unfortunately. Not a manager who would come and go in less than 2 or 3 years despite the success he might bring. Klopp would be ideal, but I doubt he will be attainable. Pochettino on the other hands needs a couple more season to prove his worth.
Wrong. Patience isn't an aimless virtue that is rooted in thin air. It is, in any aspect of life, always based on something. When one says that they believe in giving managers time, they tend to mean that they're willing to stand by him not being an immediately success but it's almost always preconditioned by the existence of an ideology, vision or method that you believe has potential. Otherwise what is the point of patience? Time doesn't achieve greatness in itself. If you don't believe in someone and his ideas or his potential, then any patience is purely out of compulsion.
It's clearly that level of stress that you either laugh or cry, affects everyone differently.
He's not exactly making light of stuff!
I wonder, suppose Moyes is summoned to the board and is asked what he is going to do in order to improve us next season. What has he got to offer except saying he'll make quality (and expensive) signings? He can say he'll improve our training, but as he's been hands on with it and we're talking about a full season here, he'll kind of be damning himself here.
This is what will decide Moyes fate:- merchandise sales have started to fall in Asia and sales of Liverpool and Arsenal shirts have overtaken Uniteds.
It doesn't matter what Fergie says, Woodward knows which side his bread is buttered.
It doesn't matter what Fergie says, Woodward knows which side his bread is buttered.
Shows how fickle fans in Asia are.
Asda's rubbish anyway.
I have been talking for a long time that losing 'gloryhunters' doesn't help United in any way.
Nice way to generalise a continent of 4.3 billion based on a non factual statement that sales are dropping there. Well done. Didn't expect any less.What's wrong with what he said?
No idea if that shirt sales quip is true or not but whichever territory has the quickest swing in shirt sales from United to other clubs has, by definition, the most fickle fans.
No idea if that shirt sales quip is true or not but whichever territory has the quickest swing in shirt sales from United to other clubs has, by definition, the most fickle fans.
You learn new things every day here.
Piszczek played as a RB in his last season at Hertha, so no, Klopp didn't really invent a light bulb there. ( I know it wasn't you who said it, can't be arsed to quote replies you replied to )
What proof is there to suggest that Asian fans are the most fickle and shirt sales are dropping? I'm from Asia and I've been a United supporter for all my life. My dad supported the club through the 70s till now. I have loads of friends who've supported Liverpool from the 90s and Arsenal through the last 10 seasons. I find it offensive to label us fickle and glory hunters. Just because we're not from Manchester doesn't mean our support sways with failure to win. Fcuk that.
There's no proof.
Not unless that comment about shirt sales is true (reading it again, I think it was a hypothetical)
Not unless that comment about shirt sales is true (reading it again, I think it was a hypothetical)
My point exactly. It wasn't aimed at you but that Drifter guy who made sweeping generalisations about 60 % of earth's population without checking his facts pissed me off. Don't like fans from Asia ? Fine. Boom there goes more than half United's revenue. Now buy Kroos, Gundogan and Reus.
Well by the sounds of things he's not labelling you anything, as you're obviously a genuine fan. I would think that it's beyond doubt, though, that the Asian market is the most fluid and consumer driven of all, at least in terms of actually picking up or starting to support teams.
But isn't that applicable to any other place really ? Suppose a guy just started watching basketball in Brazil, since he has no pre-conceived allegiances naturally he'll gravitate towards the likes of LeBron James or Kobe Bryant. Isn't that applicable to a football fan anywhere who starts watching football now and is swayed by the glamour of Madrid or Barcelona just like United gained massive support in the late 90s with Beckham. Where does being Asian and fickleness come into the equation ? How is an average Asian fan different in that respect to some-one from anywhere else on the planet ? He blatantly suggested that Asian fans will ditch their teams when they're in trouble.
Most fans in Europe will select sides based on geographical location, will they not?
Obviously. But there are still 4 other continents left. None of them are called fickle. It's always us bleeding Asians in spite of watching United's CL matches at 3 in the morning and travelling thousands of miles to visit Old Trafford, spending thousands on air fares and taxis and tickets. Yet at the first sign of trouble, apparently we stop buying shirts and start supporting Barcelona.
I don't think he was referring to you. There's obviously some amazing support from Asia, the distance some travel for games is admirable.
Well,no, not to the same extent, for a number of reasons. It's a massive, massive consumer economy. Even now it's an untapped market in terms of what they could be making from it. There is also a celeb-centric culture where they will be attracted to big names and the exposure and marketing of PL football particularly is tailored to that. I'm not for a moment suggesting that most Asian fans will generally ditch their teams when they lose, as that's nonsense. But what you will always find in these emerging markets, where people's teams don't come from family, or locality, is that, for many of them, it will be more disposable for some. There will still be a strong hardcore of fans, such as yourself, but there will also be others for whom it's a form or entertainment. So the interest level or commitment might not be the same as you or I. I think that's just the nature of these emerging markets, America being another, where they're only really discovering the game and developing a culture around it over the last couple of decades. Not having a world class league also adds to that.
But yeah, I certainly wasn't agreeing that Asian fans as a whole are fickle. I'd say that overall there's probably a slightly higher percentage that are more fickle for the reasons I've mentioned above, but then there are also those who love the team they support and often have to make quite big sacrifices to see the games, with time differences and such. And as people support teams for longer and as these nations are legitimised both in terms of the sheer numbers of their support and also the strength of their domestic leagues increase, that will change too.
Tell that to the Irish thread
choices are often made on both geographical location and a clubs fame, stature and history. United and Liverpool famously have a huge Asian following and also a great many fans from our Irish/British shores.Might not have been me personally man. But I'm Asian and I take offence to the generalisation because I fall in the subgroup. Anyway whatever I don't care about his preconceived notions, some people are just for assumptions without being at ground zero. /topic.
You're a rational man so you put it in a intelligent manner and I can't find anyway to fault this post. Infact I agree with a lot of this. But his stereotyping irked me. Maybe I over-reacted but the Asian in me rose up like a ninja to stand up for the honour of my brethren. Anyway enough about the Asians. It's a Moyes thread.
That's fair enough, and I can sympathise.
so giggs aint so anti-moyes after all hehe http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...tball-news/ryan-giggs-wants-play-more-6858314 (look at last two lines in interview)
If you read the whole interview all I got from that is Moyes has been a pathetic manager from not getting these players to play to their potential. Like i keep saying if we get a great manager 3 players rather than 7 will see us at the top again.
the point of those last two lines was pointed to the suggestion that the players' performance was more for themselves, the fans and the club more than moyes. i dont know why giggs dodged the question yesterday but in this column he said the players owed the manager and the fans a good performance.
The players are likely sick of carrying the can, they've now shown the passion and character that's been at question. I am personally starting feel like Moyes is on some form of apprenticeship for running a top club.
He is. On the job training as manager of Manchester United.
LOL.. true! I actually felt happy for him on Wednesday when we went through to Quarter Finals that it's his first taste of some success in his football managing life. You can feel his excitement almost.
So....I havent really had time to talk much on here over the last two days but...
Reading that Giggs interview and seeing some of the posts on here, am I the only one not impressed about our performance on Wednesday night?
Reading that Giggs interview and seeing some of the posts on here, am I the only one not impressed about our performance on Wednesday night?
In the context of this season it was a good performance.
In the context of Manchester United it wasn't anything special.
Yeah....Sorry, I've been on and off since yesterday and haven't had a chance to read anything here as such...
Just find it odd people are labeling that performance as "good" or "great".....It really wasn't!....Thrilled with the result mind
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