Moyes So Far!

[datura]

From the Ducker article:

'A fundamentally decent man of considerable integrity, though, it is uncomfortable for many who respect Moyes to see him struggling so badly. Plenty of good work has gone unnoticed, too, not least the changes he has implemented to the scouting set-up to ensure that United are in a position to identify and buy the best.

Dispersing the engulfing storm clouds long enough to put those changes to the test, though, will be his primary concern.'

The rest is mainly the same as numerous articles about players losing faith in the manager etc. Another bit:

'The Glazer family are known to be “disappointed” and nobody within United expected the post-Ferguson landscape to look this bad so quickly. For the moment, they are sticking squarely by their man, but should the season continue to unravel, as pragmatic businessmen who are not governed by sentiment, it is inconceivable that the Americans will not be questioning whether to entrust up to £200 million this summer to a manager facing a crisis of credibility.'

 

[Mauzindark]

From the Ducker article:

'A fundamentally decent man of considerable integrity, though, it is uncomfortable for many who respect Moyes to see him struggling so badly. Plenty of good work has gone unnoticed, too, not least the changes he has implemented to the scouting set-up to ensure that United are in a position to identify and buy the best.

Dispersing the engulfing storm clouds long enough to put those changes to the test, though, will be his primary concern.'

The rest is mainly the same as numerous articles about players losing faith in the manager etc.

Ta

 

[kouroux]

I think it's wishful thinking. I've pretty much accepted (reluctantly) that he will be here next season.

I also don't think he's gonna get sacked but just that if it is to happen then now is a good time.

Who would you want if he is sacked within the next couple of weeks? I can't see beyond Sir Alex.

I have no idea, I don't even know what I want at the moment tbh. I know I'll feel nothing if he is sacked, well probably a little relieved but no explosion of joy.

 

[LonelyFire]

Who is it we play first - city or pool? Whoever the first is against.....i fear what the score will be

 

[Empire]

You're confused.

Elaborate.

Also, as a Moyes supporter, explain the logic in choosing Young and Valencia over Januzaj and Kagawa. I noticed you ignored that part of my post earlier when you responded with 'wtf'.

You also ignored a polite question from Moskva Red, I'm not sure why:

As for Moyes, what are the grounds for you being a supporter? That's not meant aggressively, I am just genuinely curious at to how you think he can still turn it round.

 

[B20]

On another note, a good example of Moyes' handling of young players:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ed-Manchester-United-manager-David-Moyes.html

 

[Revan]

On another note, a good example of Moyes' handling of young players:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ed-Manchester-United-manager-David-Moyes.html

But Moyes has a very good history of giving the chance to young players in Everton. He played regularly Rooney, Rodwell, Rooney, Rodwell and Rooney.

 

[Gladiator]

You may be right on Klopp but club have got to try. Give him something to think about.

Im not sure on Van Gaal. Certainly better than moyes! Would rather Hiddink.

I would like Hiddink too! No idea on his availability though.

 

[Amir]

The revamp of the scouting system has been mentioned by all papers in the last couple of days. Obviously someone's been feeding them. Mind you, all it means is that maybe we should appoint Moyes head scout.

Whenever player power is mentioned, it's considered a bad thing. But the reality is that if the players don't rate and believe in Moyes, maybe they've got a good reason to.

 

[Empire]

Querioz after the world cup with Iran might just be willing to take the assistant manager position therefore assuming the new man doesn't want to bring with him his own team, he might be willing to use Quieroz who understands the club well. Alex Ferguson could arrange this.

Also don't rule out Ferguson. He is at every game, so much for travelling the world to experience the finest vineyards she has to offer!

He won't come out of retirement unless his wife is happy for him to do so. This past year he has helped her grieve, she too might be more willing to move on from life without her sister and there are options such as spending more time with her children and grandchildren.

If Ferguson is unhappy at watching all he has built come crashing down whilst City, Chelsea and Liverpool fight to claim his throne, he will be itching to return. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that his wife encourages him to do what he loves, to do what he wants to do.

He might just realise how good he was after watching the struggles of David Moyes. With this revamped scouting system and £100 - £200m he too might be able to build another great team.

Fergie and Queiroz united.

 

[LR7]

But Moyes has a very good history of giving the chance to young players in Everton. He played regularly Rooney, Rodwell, Rooney, Rodwell and Rooney.

It's weird because apart from Januzaj, Moyes has done zilch with youngsters this season. At SB for the league cup last season this was the team who started against Chelsea's almost full strength side, and look at the bench(!):

• 13 Lindegaard
• 02 Rafael
• 28 Buttner (Powell - 46' )
• 31 Wootton
• 38 M Keane
• 08 Anderson (Tunnicliffe - 81' )
• 11 Giggs
• 17 Nani
• 24 Fletcher
• 14 Hernandez
• 19 Welbeck (Macheda - 99' )

Substitutes

• 50 Johnstone
• 36 Vermijl
• 25 Powell
• 35 Lingard
• 46 Tunnicliffe
• 27 Macheda
• 37 Brady

Our second string with a sprinkling of kids. People have said its understandable Moyes didn't name any kids in the lineup this season as he's trying to win his first trophy but that will still be the case next season, and maybe even the season after.

 

[datura]

On another note, a good example of Moyes' handling of young players:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ed-Manchester-United-manager-David-Moyes.html

Yeah because no other managers have let go young players who've gone on to excellent careers..

 

[Dracula]

That's a shame, and from what I've heard, Honingstein has been a decent journalist. It's a tough call from the club as well, whether to trust the manager or fire the players. We've been a manager's club, at least in the Fergie years and with Fergie and Charlton still at the club, we may still be a manager's club.

No surprise.

The way Carrick dodged the answer about whether Moyes could boost the side like Fergie on SSN showed that.

If the situation is as bad as Hoenigstein reports (and, as others have said, he's a decent journalist), then is it possible he might decide to quit? He must be under an awful amount of stress at the moment if he is going into work every morning and facing a surly, mutinous group of players. And those situations are generally irretrievable and almost always end up with the manager leaving.

It must also be a concern for the owners if they are still thinking of giving Moyes the summer transfer window to rebuild. If Moyes has failed to earn the respect of our dressing room, then there must be a risk that A list signings (and we are aiming high, according to reports) would become similarly disillusioned under the current coaching team.

You guys are mad.
Honigstein is a terrible journo. He's about as reliable as tom mcdermott.
He's never been close to any real information. Ever.

 

[Kaos]

It sounds bad but I really hope this whole thing escalates with players making their apparent disapproval of Moyes more evident. If thats what it takes to tip Moyes over the edge then so be it. I don't want him given another season.

 

[Cal?]

It sounds bad but I really hope this whole thing escalates with players making their apparent disapproval of Moyes more evident. If thats what it takes to tip Moyes over the edge then so be it. I don't want him given another season.

This, I'd rather have Rio as player manager right now. I doubt he'd stick to the hoof and cross with Val and Young tactics.

 

[Kostur]

This, I'd rather have Rio as player manager right now. I doubt he'd stick to the hoof and cross with Val and Young tactics.

Yup, I can see this tactical genius implementing brand new tactics such as making the players post on twitter what they ate in the morning and what they shat in the evening, opening their own labels with clothes and he'd tell the press the squad 2 days before the match so that everybody is sure whether they play on a specific day or not.

 

[Cal?]

Yup, I can see this tactical genius implementing brand new tactics such as making the players post on twitter what they ate in the morning and what they shat in the evening, opening their own labels with clothes and he'd tell the press the squad 2 days before the match so that everybody is sure whether they play on a specific day or not.

Mourinho does that every so often (announcing the team to the world well in advance), there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Raoul]

You guys are mad.
Honigstein is a terrible journo. He's about as reliable as tom mcdermott.
He's never been close to any real information. Ever.

He's a decent journalist who is probably passing along something he heard from one of his sources. It certainly wouldn't be surprising if true. We are playing as if there is a disconnect between manager and players.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I remember Honigstein being one of the few journos to accurately predict we'd finish out of the top 4 this season

 

[LonelyFire]

Have Soccer Saturday panel covered Utd yet?

 

[Kaos]

I think a few posters are mistaking Honigstein for Ballague, who is a complete fradulent gimp and grade A BS factory.

 

[17Larsson]

Have Soccer Saturday panel covered Utd yet?

Paul Merson, Phil Thompson and Matt le Tissier's opinions have no relevance to anything. I'd rather listen to my granny fart

 

[Shinjisan]

I think you underestimate the size of the problem. We need to find a left and a right fullback. We need an experienced CB to help bring on our young CB's. We need 2 CM players and we need to get rid of those not performing in that position. We need 2 quality wide players. The key thing is that to compete with City etc we need to be doing similar in having 2 quality players for every position. We are seriously weak in terms of our backup players to our 1st choice players.

On the contrary, I think the problem is exaggerated on here.

• We need to convince Evra to sign an extension and also sign a left back. We can have a smooth transition over here, instead of getting two new guys to integrate into the team.
• We need a backup right full back (Varela can be tried as an option). One mediocre, injury plagued season is not enough for me to write off Rafael.
• A dominant center back is needed and should be bought. We would still have Evans, Jones and Smalling, who have had plenty of experience by the start of next season. We don't need to throw the new guy straight into the fire.
• Carrick, Fellaini and new world class CM plus options in Fletcher, Cleverley, Jones and Powell. These are good enough options.
• We need one other wide player. Januzaj, Mata, Zaha, Lingard and one of Nani,Young or Valencia is sufficient.

Brining in too many players at the same time and integrating them is a problem in itself. We would need to do it over 2-3 windows rather than trying to change everything in one transfer window. Do City really have many options?

• After Yaya and Fernandinho they have Garcia and Rodwell
• Lescott and Demichelis for Kompany and Nastasic.
• Boyata for Zabaletta
• Nasri, Silva, Navas and Milner

They have good striking options like we do. If we buy another top class wide player, our options will be as good as theirs. We need to improve the quality of our first team, don't think our squad players are not as bad as they are made out to be. Having too many world class players will prove counter-productive in itself in the long term.

 

[LonelyFire]

Paul Merson, Phil Thompson and Matt le Tissier's opinions have no relevance to anything. I'd rather listen to my granny fart

That's fair enough but doesn't answer the question. Ill assume you don't know

 

[17Larsson]

That's fair enough but doesn't answer the question. Ill assume you don't know

When I used to watch Soccer Saturday they'd tend to leave the United discussion till later on in the show so you might still catch it

 

[LonelyFire]

When I used to watch Soccer Saturday they'd tend to leave the United discussion till later on in the show so you might still catch it

Cheers pal

 

[Sixpence]

Soccer Saturday is a crap show and has been for years, even Stelling who was good has changed into one of the blithering idiots. Too many brainless idiots on there spouting the same crap week after week.

 

[Sixpence]

I think a few posters are mistaking Honigstein for Ballague, who is a complete fradulent gimp and grade A BS factory.

I don't think there's too much difference between them. They both know very little.

 

[Raoul]

I don't think there's too much difference between them. They both know very little.

Or else you know very little to presume they do.

 

[LonelyFire]

Not doubting Honigstein but idea he has somehow usurped Manchester press pack is amusing. Id be keen to see what Ogden, Bates, Ducker, and Taylor go with over next few days.

Anyway, its hardly a surprise. Theyve been playing like a disconnected squad for months

 

[Comsmit]

I'm at a strange place right now regarding Moyes. I feel the club does need to stick the boot in and get on with the process of evolving and moving forwards rather than in circles. At the same time, from everything you hear (or the lack of it), it seems that this guy, somehow, truly has been given a free reign for a good 2 years to do whatever he pleases no matter how badly. I think this "United Way" that many of us think is laughably overrated and detrimental when taken to extremes, is given utmost importance and priority by the people who matter. And so, there is a part of me that is already looking towards next season under Moyes, with the other side kicking and screaming for a change.

I still think it is completely bonkers, the notion of giving him time for the sheer sake of "giving him time." What exactly is it that they see in him I wonder? Surely it can't just be his integrity, or his work ethic, or his honesty (incidentally his honesty has also been a weakness for him). There must be this ingrained belief from the Ferguson era that time and patience breeds success, or perhaps that time allows a better understanding of whether something will work. The thing I've always heard from Sir Bobby Charlton is "stability breeds success" well nothing is stable at United right now only the malaise.

 

[JonDahl]

Have Soccer Saturday panel covered Utd yet?

Yeh mate, they spoke about us first.

 

[LonelyFire]

Yeh mate, they spoke about us first.

What did they say?

 

[Revan]

On the contrary, I think the problem is exaggerated on here.

• We need to convince Evra to sign an extension and also sign a left back. We can have a smooth transition over here, instead of getting two new guys to integrate into the team.
• We need a backup right full back (Varela can be tried as an option). One mediocre, injury plagued season is not enough for me to write off Rafael.
• A dominant center back is needed and should be bought. We would still have Evans, Jones and Smalling, who have had plenty of experience by the start of next season. We don't need to throw the new guy straight into the fire.
• Carrick, Fellaini and new world class CM plus options in Fletcher, Cleverley, Jones and Powell. These are good enough options.
• We need one other wide player. Januzaj, Mata, Zaha, Lingard and one of Nani,Young or Valencia is sufficient.

Brining in too many players at the same time and integrating them is a problem in itself. We would need to do it over 2-3 windows rather than trying to change everything in one transfer window. Do City really have many options?

• After Yaya and Fernandinho they have Garcia and Rodwell
• Lescott and Demichelis for Kompany and Nastasic.
• Boyata for Zabaletta
• Nasri, Silva, Navas and Milner

They have good striking options like we do. If we buy another top class wide player, our options will be as good as theirs. We need to improve the quality of our first team, don't think our squad players are not as bad as they are made out to be. Having too many world class players will prove counter-productive in itself in the long term.

Pretty much agree with this. Coentro/Shaw, a CB and a central midfielder probably would be enough. If we don't trust Varela then we would also need a RB cover who ideally can cover also in LB position.

As long as Moyes don't go full retard and sell Kagawa, Chicharito and Nani instead of selling Young and Valencia IMO we will be alright in attack. Rooney, RVP, Chicharito, Welbeck, Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Nani should be enough for four position. Lingard, Zaha and Powell can also offer something there if we need.

I think that if we sell Valencia, Young, Anderson and possibly Cleverley then we can get those 3 (or 4) players for a net spend of 50-60m. I don't buy the rumours that we will do a City and sign a lot of players for 200m. It shouldn't and it won't happen. The biggest problem I see is that I think Moyes will sell players like Kagawa/Chicharito and possibly RVP instead those I mentioned and if the new signings aren't good then we will be in deep shit.

 

[SteveJ]

What did they say?

MERSON: "I fink Yewnited's board av f*cked up."
STELLING: "Haha, Merse said 'fink'! Isn't he thick?"
THOMMO: "Do dey dunno wot dey're finking at Old Traffic?"
STELLING: "Haha, Thommo's really thick ah ha!"

Repeat to infinity.

 

[LonelyFire]

MERSON: "I fink Yewnited's board av f*cked up."
STELLING: "Haha, Merse said 'fink'! Isn't he thick?"
THOMMO: "Do dey dunno wot dey're finking at Old Traffic?"
STELLING: "Haha, Thommo's really thick ah ha!"

Repeat to infinity.

Unbelievable Jeff

 

[JonDahl]

What did they say?

- Everyone was baffled why Januzaj didn't start.
- Merson thought Moyes will be sacked if he doesn't make top four.
- They had a debate on whether Moyes is strong enough for the job or not. They leaned to no citing that it he came in and tried to be friends with all the players; scared to ruffle a few feathers.
- All had a go at the players saying no one is showing any leadership.
- Brought up the comments from players throughout the season (Rio's team sheet on a Friday, Van Persie just recently) and said it would never happen under Fergie.
- Couldn't understand why players so badly out form (Young and Valencia mainly) keep getting games.
- Team didn't look like it had any direction; everyone is hiding.

 

[Raoul]

On the contrary, I think the problem is exaggerated on here.

• We need to convince Evra to sign an extension and also sign a left back. We can have a smooth transition over here, instead of getting two new guys to integrate into the team.
• We need a backup right full back (Varela can be tried as an option). One mediocre, injury plagued season is not enough for me to write off Rafael.
• A dominant center back is needed and should be bought. We would still have Evans, Jones and Smalling, who have had plenty of experience by the start of next season. We don't need to throw the new guy straight into the fire.
• Carrick, Fellaini and new world class CM plus options in Fletcher, Cleverley, Jones and Powell. These are good enough options.
• We need one other wide player. Januzaj, Mata, Zaha, Lingard and one of Nani,Young or Valencia is sufficient.

Brining in too many players at the same time and integrating them is a problem in itself. We would need to do it over 2-3 windows rather than trying to change everything in one transfer window. Do City really have many options?

• After Yaya and Fernandinho they have Garcia and Rodwell
• Lescott and Demichelis for Kompany and Nastasic.
• Boyata for Zabaletta
• Nasri, Silva, Navas and Milner

They have good striking options like we do. If we buy another top class wide player, our options will be as good as theirs. We need to improve the quality of our first team, don't think our squad players are not as bad as they are made out to be. Having too many world class players will prove counter-productive in itself in the long term.

The problem may be overstated on here, but so is the idea that throwing new players into the equation is some sort of panacea to our problems. What good would new players do if they enter into a toxic situation where the squad is demoralized and the manager is losing credibility with the squad and fan base ?

 

[Gannicus]

My daughter just came back from a weeklong retreat. No tv and no internet.

She was disappointed to learn of our humiliation in Greece and surprised that Moyes hasn't been sacked yet.

 

[Cal?]

Pretty much agree with this. Coentro/Shaw, a CB and a central midfielder probably would be enough. If we don't trust Varela then we would also need a RB cover who ideally can cover also in LB position.

As long as Moyes don't go full retard and sell Kagawa, Chicharito and Nani instead of selling Young and Valencia IMO we will be alright in attack. Rooney, RVP, Chicharito, Welbeck, Mata, Kagawa, Januzaj, Nani should be enough for four position. Lingard, Zaha and Powell can also offer something there if we need.

I think that if we sell Valencia, Young, Anderson and possibly Cleverley then we can get those 3 (or 4) players for a net spend of 50-60m. I don't buy the rumours that we will do a City and sign a lot of players for 200m. It shouldn't and it won't happen. The biggest problem I see is that I think Moyes will sell players like Kagawa/Chicharito and possibly RVP instead those I mentioned and if the new signings aren't good then we will be in deep shit.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I expect he would do and also why he needs to be sacked asap.

Would Kagawa or Chicharito want to stay after being frozen out the whole season by this inept manager if he's still around? I don't blame them at all if they ask for transfers, in fact both will be mad not to.