Moyes So Far!

[Melvyn]

I stopped listening to Gary Neville at the beginning of the season when he said Manchester United will change David Moyes, that he is 'moving mountains' if he wants to move away from crossing the ball because that is the culture at Manchester United. I understand what he's trying to say. You look at Barca and their possession football, how highly they value possession stats. It's the tradition of their club. We shouldn't totally ignore wingplay because that is what Manchester United are known for. But Jamie Carragher makes a good point in reply to Neville when he asked whether David Moyes should persist with crossing even if it's against his nature and how he wants his team to play football, just because he's now the manager of Manchester United.

IMO a lot of the things Neville says comes off as arrogant to me, as if Manchester United are above all other clubs and should do things according to tradition for the sake of tradition.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Plenty of chairmen for lower-table teams would wet themselves at the prospect of getting him.

Stability and mediocrity, they love that stuff.

He is the pin up boy for stability, but for mid table teams not top teams. He would get a job easily. Depends how much being fired/resigning from this job would affect him.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I stopped listening to Gary Neville at the beginning of the season when he said Manchester United will change David Moyes, that he is 'moving mountains' if he wants to move away from crossing the ball because that is the culture at Manchester United. I understand what he's trying to say. You look at Barca and their possession football, how highly they value possession stats. It's the tradition of their club. We shouldn't totally ignore wingplay because that is what Manchester United are known for. But Jamie Carragher makes a good point in reply to Neville when he asked whether David Moyes should persist with crossing even if it's against his nature and how he wants his team to play football, just because he's now the manager of Manchester United.

IMO a lot of the things Neville says comes off as arrogant to me, as if Manchester United are above all other clubs and should do things according to tradition for the sake of tradition.

There is nothing wrong with wingers and crossing. It's the fact we have rubbish wingers. However crossing should not be your only form of attacking. It's like poor Moyes has taken the stories about United and wingers too much to heart.

 

[Sky1981]

There is nothing wrong with wingers and crossing. It's the fact we have rubbish wingers. However crossing should not be your only form of attacking. It's like poor Moyes has taken the stories about United and wingers too much to heart.

@DomesticTadpole In regards to your comment last nite,

I really think it took a special customed tactics for 10 men on the field to move in coordination and to know where and when to pass to each other. Take a look at any top team, the players moves as a team, it takes more than just the ability to pass.

I'm sure the professional players knew how to pass, what they don't know is where to pass and where they should move after they pass. You can argue all you want, but at the top level, tactics is important and more than just "play out there and score".

It might not matters against the minnows, but when you're playing an equal opponent, having that extra run or two where the opposition didn't expect can be the difference between winning / losing.

There's someone leaking our scouting report somewhere in here, and if you look at the depth of a mere scouting report, I'm sure that the tactical works involved in a real match goes more than simply "Pass you fool, and move into space"

Look at Kagawa thread, that's what will happen if one person decided to pass and move by himeself.. he'll ended up clueless and looking out of formation.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

@DomesticTadpole In regards to your comment last nite,

I really think it took a special customed tactics for 10 men on the field to move in coordination and to know where and when to pass to each other. Take a look at any top team, the players moves as a team, it takes more than just the ability to pass.

I'm sure the professional players knew how to pass, what they don't know is where to pass and where they should move after they pass. You can argue all you want, but at the top level, tactics is important and more than just "play out there and score".

It might not matters against the minnows, but when you're playing an equal opponent, having that extra run or two where the opposition didn't expect can be the difference between winning / losing.

There's someone leaking our scouting report somewhere in here, and if you look at the depth of a mere scouting report, I'm sure that the tactical works involved in a real match goes more than simply "Pass you fool, and move into space"

Look at Kagawa thread, that's what will happen if one person decided to pass and move by himeself.. he'll ended up clueless and looking out of formation.

I don't think the players have understood at all what he is wanting from them. Maybe his tactics are over complicated? There's no connection between the midfield and defence or midfield and forward line. Without us being in the room or on the training ground, we don't know if they are just confused or are being deliberately defiant. Someone said he only discusses actual tactics just before a game, can that be right and is that normal for other clubs as well? If it is then it seems crazy or that the manager is over analysing the opposition or cannot decide his own tactics and is leaving it far too late.

 

[mic.m]

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/26366857
Robbie Savage reads the CAF and might even be a member.

 

[Sky1981]

I don't think the players have understood at all what he is wanting from them. Maybe his tactics are over complicated? There's no connection between the midfield and defence or midfield and forward line. Without us being in the room or on the training ground, we don't know if they are just confused or are being deliberately defiant. Someone said he only discusses actual tactics just before a game, can that be right and is that normal for other clubs as well? If it is then it seems crazy or that the manager is over analysing the opposition or cannot decide his own tactics and is leaving it far too late.

I'm not sure, we should ask someone who has played professional football to know what's it like up there.

But I'm sure tiki taka is more than simply 10 players knowing how to pass. It's most probably a very intricate and complicated sets of instructions on paper, which is why it is very hard to articulate. Total Football is another tactics that's undeniably complicated and hard to employ, while Stokeish football is probably the simplest in terms of tactics (defend, and hoof)

Anyhow, I'm not sure Moyes has it in him to adapt and formulate a fresh formation out of the blue (something Pep / Mourinho does much better), he simply grinds his trusted formation to the point where his team is being good at it (Everton), and there's no saying we won't come good at crossing and hoofing, but at what cost?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I'm not sure, we should ask someone who has played professional football to know what's it like up there.

But I'm sure tiki taka is more than simply 10 players knowing how to pass. It's most probably a very intricate and complicated sets of instructions on paper, which is why it is very hard to articulate. Total Football is another tactics that's undeniably complicated and hard to employ, while Stokeish football is probably the simplest in terms of tactics (defend, and hoof)

Anyhow, I'm not sure Moyes has it in him to adapt and formulate a fresh formation out of the blue (something Pep / Mourinho does much better), he simply grinds his trusted formation to the point where his team is being good at it (Everton), and there's no saying we won't come good at crossing and hoofing, but at what cost?

It's not just tika taka, it's the fact that the teams who play that type of possession football play a pressing game. That is how they always have the ball in the first place. We have stopped pressing the opposition, we let them have the ball. When we do get the ball we have no options to pass it to. Nobody comes towards the man in possession to offer him a passing option. Then you get the ball being hoofed up the field hoping someone will run onto it or out to the winger for them to hit it into the stands. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realise that if you offer yourself for a pass you might just get the ball. Unfortunately our players can't seem or don't want to do that.

 

[RedRover]

First we have to find our Jose Mourinho though. To suggest we just employ the first friendly face SAF can think of and then stick with them because otherwise we'll be "pulling a Chelsea" is insane.

For a start, Chelsea or City would never have employed Moyes in the first place. Neither would any other global elite club. So we don't need to worry about losing our "we do it differently" hard-on - we've already out-weirded every other big club by putting Moyes in charge in the first place.

Secondly, no-one would be suggesting sacking Moyes if we were in the top 4, no chance. Or even if we were 6th and 7th and playing nice football!

I certainly wouldn't. If there was just something he'd shown this season that was an actual, tangible positive attribute - I think 90% of Utd fans would still firmly be in the 'pro-Moyes' camp.

Chelsea or City we ain't, brother.

I agree - we do need to find our Mourinho. I'm not sticking up for Moyes per se - simply that I think its harsh to make a judgment on somebody after less than a year in the job and without the significant reinforcements he needs and has been promised.

You can say it was different circumstances but Sir Alex wasnt immediatley successful and was given time, and money to build a team. They could have sacked him and moved on because he didnt meet their expectations but chose not to.

Modern football seems to be all about success right now, this season. Its getting more ludicrous each year - Pepe Mel now favourite to be sacked after 7 games in charge is a good example. Mancini at City is another, or Di Matteo at Chelsea. teams seem to be willing to sack a coach after a bad run.

In terms of where we are now, people would be happy with top 4. I suspect that if we were only 4th and off the pace, while people might not be calling for Moyes to be sacked - he'd still be getting criticised heavily, especially from those referring to this as being a "title winning sqaud".

 

[LonelyFire]

I'm not sure, we should ask someone who has played professional football to know what's it like up there.

But I'm sure tiki taka is more than simply 10 players knowing how to pass. It's most probably a very intricate and complicated sets of instructions on paper, which is why it is very hard to articulate. Total Football is another tactics that's undeniably complicated and hard to employ, while Stokeish football is probably the simplest in terms of tactics (defend, and hoof)

Anyhow, I'm not sure Moyes has it in him to adapt and formulate a fresh formation out of the blue (something Pep / Mourinho does much better), he simply grinds his trusted formation to the point where his team is being good at it (Everton), and there's no saying we won't come good at crossing and hoofing, but at what cost?

Passing is the easy part - its knowing where you should be on the field relevant to the person who does have the ball i.e. Off the ball movement. Give the player 3 options of which neither are incredibly difficult to execute.

Look at moyes - central midfielders literally have no clue where to position themselves.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/26366857
Robbie Savage reads the CAF and might even be a member.

That is actually a sensible article, which one of us wrote it for him..

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That is actually a sensible article, which one of us wrote it for him..

I think the article is showing Moyes hasn't shown courage. If he showed some things might just change for him. He has to be decisive. As he has always been called Dithering Dave can he change. He needs to.

 

[Getsme]

Passing is the easy part - its knowing where you should be on the field relevant to the person who does have the ball i.e. Off the ball movement. Give the player 3 options of which neither are incredibly difficult to execute.

Look at moyes - central midfielders literally have no clue where to position themselves.

Pass and move, one of the first things you are taught in football. Its something most of our squad have forgotten how to do.

 

[Sky1981]

Passing is the easy part - its knowing where you should be on the field relevant to the person who does have the ball i.e. Off the ball movement. Give the player 3 options of which neither are incredibly difficult to execute.

Look at moyes - central midfielders literally have no clue where to position themselves.

That's the point. It's not about pass and move.

Who to pass, where to move next, and you have to harmonise them with the rest of the squad or risk leaving holes in the formation.

It's not as easy as black and white, it's actually a very complicated sets of agreement between players that needs to be drilled and perfected with training and matches.

And I don't see Moyes having the brain to step up, or he would have done that along time ago with Everton.

 

[RedRover]

At Everton he was voted manager of the year something like 3 times by his peers. So he ought to be one of the best managers in the premier league and I can see why a lot of people thought he could make the step up. But he hasn't and is underperforming so far at United. Maybe United is just not a good fit for him.

Indeed. Perhaps it isnt and he cant handle the pressure. Not every player who comes to United can handle it so it follows that a manager under this sort of pressure could be the same.

I do think you need to give him a chance to bring in his own players and see what he can do before making that decision though.

There are a lot of sudden tactical geniuses on this thread who seem to think they know more about how to set out a team than Moyes does. Fergie decided he was the man for the job so I'm prepared to give him time given the various issues around the club this year in terms of a new Chief Exec, new staff and lack of expected transfer activity.

Admittedly, the season has been a lot worse than expected but to place this all the neck of the manager, in my opinion is unfair, at this stage at least.

 

[Getsme]

I think the article is showing Moyes hasn't shown courage. If he showed some things might just change for him. He has to be decisive. As he has always been called Dithering Dave can he change. He needs to.

One of the first things I said when I heard that Moyes got the job was that it is essential he puts his own stamp on the team, becomes his own man. I thought that by changing the backroom staff he was going to do that.

Something has changed along the way, peer pressure, instructed, personal weakness, I’m not sure. One thing I am sure of is he hasn’t shown any balls this season, and that doesn’t look like changing, he has stuck to the same rigid tactics that have failed time and time again. He just doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes, to me that shows the character of the man.

 

[Sky1981]

Pass and move, one of the first things you are taught in football. Its something most of our squad have forgotten how to do.

True, one on one, I think they can play very well, put any of our players in Barcelona and they won't look out of place playing their part in the well oiled machine. Because I believe when they play for Barca, players around them make the movement for them, and they'll suddenly sees alot of options to pass to, and probably spaces are showing up just by his teammates movement that stretch the opposition players out of place.

But conversely if we put Xavi in our team, there won't be much that he can do, as he will need bodies to pass and find space to receive the ball back, waiting for the opportunity to get the killer pass. Imagine him sitting in our midfield, closed down, no options, I'd bet my mortgage he'll have to resort to sideways passing (where our oppositions simply left Young / Valencia alone for they're shite), and add infinitum, since our wingers can't penetrate or dribble their way pass their marker, thye'll ended up with..... Crosses.

Pass and move is an all or nothing, you can't pass and move as a solo player.

which is why Diego Maradona can won trophies on his own, because he doesn't need his teammates to perform whereas Xavi needs the whole team to assist him to perform.

 

[Sky1981]

Indeed. Perhaps it isnt and he cant handle the pressure. Not every player who comes to United can handle it so it follows that a manager under this sort of pressure could be the same.

I do think you need to give him a chance to bring in his own players and see what he can do before making that decision though.

There are a lot of sudden tactical geniuses on this thread who seem to think they know more about how to set out a team than Moyes does. Fergie decided he was the man for the job so I'm prepared to give him time given the various issues around the club this year in terms of a new Chief Exec, new staff and lack of expected transfer activity.

Admittedly, the season has been a lot worse than expected but to place this all the neck of the manager, in my opinion is unfair, at this stage at least.

10 years at everton, it's all his players he either bought or brought up

You have the answer

Granted they're 2nd class players, but do you think it'll be much more than what they've shown? Probably a more lethal striker and a more solid defender, but other than that, the blueprint is there for us to see

You don't need 200M for him to show what his team can do. Just flip a page in Everton's playbook.

 

[Nights]

There is nothing wrong with wingers and crossing. It's the fact we have rubbish wingers. However crossing should not be your only form of attacking. It's like poor Moyes has taken the stories about United and wingers too much to heart.

Just look at Bayern. They have great wingers like Robben and Ribery, and can happily go that route, yet they'll still happily cut you apart in the middle with their little triangles between Kroos/Thiago/Gotze.

Of course, their players actually move, and play with their heads up, rather than just stand there and point to someone else, or stare at the ball for five continuous seconds.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

One of the first things I said when I heard that Moyes got the job was that it is essential he puts his own stamp on the team, becomes his own man. I thought that by changing the backroom staff he was going to do that.

Something has changed along the way, peer pressure, instructed, personal weakness, I’m not sure. One thing I am sure of is he hasn’t shown any balls this season, and that doesn’t look like changing, he has stuck to the same rigid tactics that have failed time and time again. He just doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes, to me that shows the character of the man.

Someone actually said the fact he didn't keep even one of the coaching staff showed signs of insecurity, as though he is using Round, Lumsden, Neville and Woods like a security blanket. That he knows they won't question anything he does.

 

[Getsme]

True, one on one, I think they can play very well, put any of our players in Barcelona and they won't look out of place playing their part in the well oiled machine. Because I believe when they play for Barca, players around them make the movement for them, and they'll suddenly sees alot of options to pass to, and probably spaces are showing up just by his teammates movement that stretch the opposition players out of place.

But conversely if we put Xavi in our team, there won't be much that he can do, as he will need bodies to pass and find space to receive the ball back, waiting for the opportunity to get the killer pass. Imagine him sitting in our midfield, closed down, no options, I'd bet my mortgage he'll have to resort to sideways passing (where our oppositions simply left Young / Valencia alone for they're shite), and add infinitum, since our wingers can't penetrate or dribble their way pass their marker, thye'll ended up with..... Crosses.

Pass and move is an all or nothing, you can't pass and move as a solo player.

which is why Diego Maradona can won trophies on his own, because he doesn't need his teammates to perform whereas Xavi needs the whole team to assist him to perform.

Some good points there.
Someone posted a Kagawa video yesterday of him running into space, giving the player with the ball an option, on most if not all occasions the ball was played out wide or long. It was like we were afraid to play the ball through the middle, this has to be either through instruction or lack of confidence in their own ability.
Personally I believe it’s the teams tactics, if it isn’t then why is it such a common occurrence, it happens nearly every week. Another reason I believe it’s the tactics is the Palace game, I’ve watched it several times and some of our movement is impressive, Mata, Januzaj and Rooney switching sides constantly, we played to the wings through the middle, held on to procession, moved into space, looked for the ball, remained patient, dragged the Palace defence out of shape.

I’m now starting to think that Young and Valencia were rested for that game to be fresh for the UCL game, and that worries me.

 

[devilish]

Gary had become the new Paddy ever since Moyes decided to sign Phil as coach. You cant blame him. Who would have thought that a former player with no coaching experience who was renowned for running in circles and recklessly tackle players in front of the box would end up as a coach in one of the biggest clubs in the world? If United didn't stepped in then I doubt that Barcelona would have appointed him as their own technical coach.

 

[Getsme]

Someone actually said the fact he didn't keep even one of the coaching staff showed signs of insecurity, as though he is using Round, Lumsden, Neville and Woods like a security blanket. That he knows they won't question anything he does.

That could be true, buying Fellaini could add to that theory.
However it’s not uncommon for a new manager to bring in his own team, maybe on this occasion he should have kept a few around, it may have helped. Unfortunately we will never know.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

That could be true, buying Fellaini could add to that theory.
However it’s not uncommon for a new manager to bring in his own team, maybe on this occasion he should have kept a few around, it may have helped. Unfortunately we will never know.

Most of the managers that go into a big job usually keep one of the coaching staff to keep some sort of continuity with the players. He should have kept either Rene or Mike.

 

[nimic]

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/26366857
Robbie Savage reads the CAF and might even be a member.

It's a good article, but he also says this:

but to take this team - perhaps only a top-six side - and win the league last season was Incredible.

It's crazy to me how people can think that it was "perhaps only a top-six side."

 

[Getsme]

Most of the managers that go into a big job usually keep one of the coaching staff to keep some sort of continuity with the players. He should have kept either Rene or Mike.

I agree, It was a bigger risk sacking them than it would have been keeping them, in the long run it could cost him his job.

 

[nimic]

I agree, It was a bigger risk sacking them than it would have been keeping them, in the long run it could cost him his job.

I remember it was baffling to us at the time, particularly considering Gill left as well. If there was one thing that made us a little bit more positive about Fergie's eventual retirement it was in the knowledge that Fergie's backroom staff would still be there to lessen the transition pains. When it happened I remember being worried, but thinking that perhaps it was for the best. Perhaps Moyes would be able to work best with people he knows.

 

[Getsme]

It's crazy to me how people can think that it was "perhaps only a top-six side."

The best thing Moyes has done (for himself) is convincing everybody that we have a terrible squad that needs breaking up if we ever want to challenge again.
It doesn’t matter that the squad just won the league, have never finished outside the top 3 in the Premier League, or that we have a team full of top internationals , some who are considered one of the best in their position. Nor does it matter that the players have won trophies on a regular basis, are more experienced than him at winning, and most importantly know what it takes to win, none of this matters.

 

[Ixion]

It's a good article, but he also says this:

It's crazy to me how people can think that it was "perhaps only a top-six side."

Yeah I hate that, we haven't finished outside the top 2 for 8 years. It is more or less the same side, its not some miracle we won the League last year.

 

[Sarni]

It's a good article, but he also says this:

It's crazy to me how people can think that it was "perhaps only a top-six side."

It's pretty straightforward - Moyes has made them look like one.

 

[Sarni]

Yeah I hate that, we haven't finished outside the top 2 for 8 years. It is more or less the same side, its not some miracle we won the League last year.

But these players aren't even trying. They have no ambition and don't deserve to be here according to some.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I remember it was baffling to us at the time, particularly considering Gill left as well. If there was one thing that made us a little bit more positive about Fergie's eventual retirement it was in the knowledge that Fergie's backroom staff would still be there to lessen the transition pains. When it happened I remember being worried, but thinking that perhaps it was for the best. Perhaps Moyes would be able to work best with people he knows.

As with all the factors being discussed in this godforsaken season, we don't know what would have happened if Moyes hadn't brought his own team with him.

Phelan's previously been blamed for some fairly uninspiring football over the past couple of seasons, then came out with this weird comment where he tried to claim he was more responsible than Fergie for our recent success (something like that anyway, can't remember the exact quote) Meanwhile, Rene's since proven himself to have quite the ego too, as well as fairly disastrous spell as a manager. We've no idea how either of them would have dealt with life after Fergie.

Would they have got 100% behind the new manager? Or undermined him? There's a good reason that most managers bring their own backroom staff with them.

Obviously, Moyes' reign has been such a catastrophe that it's tempting to think that every decision he made was a bad one. He's clearly made some poor decisions but t's quite possible that this was not one of them.

 

[LR7]

I love Gary, he's one of my all time favourites, but he isn't half getting on my nerves this season with some of the things he's coming off with. He keeps blabbering on about the fact that Moyes will outlast the players here as if it's some kind of threat, when in reality the way things are going I imagine that there are several players including Kagawa, Hernandez, RvP etc for whom getting away from this club and Moyes won't represent a bad thing. I imagine for the sake of their careers they are quite looking forward to it. "Keep trudging away" said Kagawa. Who wants trudge away in their job at 23-24? Not one of these players look like they're enjoying their football under him atm.

I'm intrigued as to how far Moyes could drag this club before Neville would admit its time or get rid. I imagine he'd be happy to let him do a fair bit of damage just so that we can say "We're Manchester United we give managers time". I just don't see the point in giving the wrong man time. The comparisons with giving Fergie time are also irksome. Fergie had a positive impact here in his first two seasons. And he came here with a good pedigree. He was already a winner, we weren't attempting to turn him into one. His task was completely different to Moyes'. It warranted time.

Moyes should have embraced living up to the high expectations this club has when in fact all he's done is lower our own expectations to meet his own lowly ones. It's to the point that playing shit on a stick football with 82 crosses constitutes to playing well, and when facing Newcastle at home we endeavour to "try to make it difficult for them". There is high praise for the team when we lose but "get to the byeline 8 or 9 times" and not to mention that it's a signal that we've played well when we "got near the edge of the box a few times" - yeah, not even inside the box, just near the edge.

Neville his highly principled and because he's been so vocal about giving managers time it's like he can't go back on his words now. Principles only get you so far though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But these players aren't even trying. They have no ambition and don't deserve to be here according to some.

That's blatantly true for some of them. Obviously, t's the managers job to inspire players and make them play at their best. It's also not unreasonable to expect seasoned professionals to show a bit more heart and desire than what we've seen from some (not all) of our squad this season.

 

[mic.m]

It's a good article, but he also says this:



It's crazy to me how people can think that it was "perhaps only a top-six side."

I'm guessing he was able to sneak that past wichever Caf member ghostwrote the article

 

[Getsme]

I remember it was baffling to us at the time, particularly considering Gill left as well. If there was one thing that made us a little bit more positive about Fergie's eventual retirement it was in the knowledge that Fergie's backroom staff would still be there to lessen the transition pains. When it happened I remember being worried, but thinking that perhaps it was for the best. Perhaps Moyes would be able to work best with people he knows.

That was my thought at the time, a fresh start, an exciting time for the club. Then I heard that Phil Neville was coming on board and my stomach turned a little bit, an ex-fringe player with no coaching experience, it was a crazy decision by Moyes.
Our experienced, world class players being coached by Phil Neville. Yes, you don’t have to be a good player to be a good coach, but to become a member of the coaching team at a club the size of United you need to have an impressive CV, Phil Neville just doesn’t have that.

 

[Sarni]

That's blatantly true for some of them. Obviously, t's the managers job to inspire players and make them play at their best. It's also not unreasonable to expect seasoned professionals to show a bit more heart and desire than what we've seen from some (not all) of our squad this season.

I think most who haven't performed are just not good enough. For example I think Valencia is trying, he's just not good enough anymore. Cleverley I could accuse of not being arsed.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If I was going to accuse players of not being arsed it would be much more senior, established players than Cleverley. They're the seasoned pros you want to be leaders on the pitch. Most of them have been anything but.

 

[mic.m]

We won the league with ageing midfielders, injuries and off form players. This squad should be comfortably in the top 4 at worst. I was really disappointed when Moyes questioned the squad's quality. It's probably also the moment when some of the senior players stopped buying into his philosophy/tactics/whatever he tells them to do on matchday. It's shocking that a man who has won feckall can come and undermine multiple trophy winners. Even Mourinho wouldn't (publicly) do that. Moyes has systematically lowered expectations inorder to protect himself

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We won the league with ageing midfielders, injuries and off form players. This squad should be comfortably in the top 4 at worst. I was really disappointed when Moyes questioned the squad's quality. It's probably also the moment when some of the senior players stopped buying into his philosophy/tactics/whatever he tells them to do on matchday. It's shocking that a man who has won feckall can come and undermine multiple trophy winners. Even Mourinho wouldn't (publicly) do that. Moyes has systematically lowered expectations inorder to protect himself

Isn't that exactly what he's done with all that "little horse" nonsense?

How is portraying Chelsea as an underdog in the title race not questioning the quality of his squad?