Moyes So Far!

Status
Not open for further replies.
You're assuming they have the ability to play anti-football. Do you honestly think Klopp would come in here and neither get results nor performances. That's a laugh. And he'd command respect. Immediately. Another thing. He's proven.

Its another assumption that another manager would come in and have us playing great football and winning games immediately.

We were hardly scintillating under Fergie last year and won a lot of games on the back of vital goals.

The point I'm trying to make is that Sir Alex was given time at United, and tried to do things a different way to other clubs. He hand picked a manager who he must believe is the right man to take the club forward - and told the fans to get behind him and give him time. Instead a lot of people are now clamoruing for him to be sacked and replaced 8 months in - like Chelsea, City and Real Madrid have done in the past - sackings which have seen fans on here calling clubs " a joke" for doing just that.

We've had one man in charge for 25 years while other clubs panicked - now the moment things arent going well everyone is calling for the managers head before he's even had a chance to build his own team.

What marked United out as different was the consistency and patience the club had when things werent going well. There has been poor spells and fergie was able to rebuild and get us back challenging. Its cyclical and we were always gfoing to see a drop off this year, even if it worse than we thought it would be. Seems a lot of fans just want is to be like Chelsea, City or the other trigger happy clubs.
 
I

What happens if we sack him and appoint Van Gaal or Klopp and they dont succeed? Do you sack them after half a season as well?

1) Its extremely unlikely that they wouldn't be an upgrade over Moyes. Heck, I'd argue most knowledgeable fans would probably be an upgrade over him.

2) Even if results weren't going our way, someone like Klopp will definitely implement a more attractive football philosophy compared to Moyes' hoofball and 'cross for Scotland' style...if you dignify it as a style.

3) Klopp and Van Gaal have won things. Moyes has won a grand total of zilch.


I'd be happy to give someone like Klopp as much time as he needs since his track record and style suggests he'll make us come good. On the other hand the thought of another season with Moyes makes me feel hopeless and dejected, its depressing. I'm sure the players feel the same way too. I mean FFS, imagine going into the changing room at HT where we're chasing a game and you have this to motivate you:
Gollum.PNG
 
Its another assumption that another manager would come in and have us playing great football and winning games immediately.

We were hardly scintillating under Fergie last year and won a lot of games on the back of vital goals.

The point I'm trying to make is that Sir Alex was given time at United, and tried to do things a different way to other clubs. He hand picked a manager who he must believe is the right man to take the club forward - and told the fans to get behind him and give him time. Instead a lot of people are now clamoruing for him to be sacked and replaced 8 months in - like Chelsea, City and Real Madrid have done in the past - sackings which have seen fans on here calling clubs " a joke" for doing just that.

We've had one man in charge for 25 years while other clubs panicked - now the moment things arent going well everyone is calling for the managers head before he's even had a chance to build his own team.

What marked United out as different was the consistency and patience the club had when things werent going well. There has been poor spells and fergie was able to rebuild and get us back challenging. Its cyclical and we were always gfoing to see a drop off this year, even if it worse than we thought it would be. Seems a lot of fans just want is to be like Chelsea, City or the other trigger happy clubs.

That's all well and good, but the lack of faith among fans is coming from his inability to motivate and instil tactics other than the shite we've seen with the squad that he currently has. It's not like he's going to be able to offload as many players as he wants this summer anyway, there's a strong possibility that many of the current crop will be still here next season.

My point is, he hasn't made the most of what he has, which is a very good squad of players. It's ultimately still SAF's team, but should that be made out to be as big an excuse as it has? I don't think so.
 
Last edited:
Now my grand-dad has gotten a little caustic with age and we have to take everything he says with a pinch of salt. He blames Fergie for a lot of things - including the incident with Briann Kidd, his treatment of Keane, Beckham's sale and Fergie's public demeaning of Victoria, Rock of Gibraltar, his son being an agent linked to the club etc etc. He reckons Moyesy is a puppet to push the vendettas of those two and keep them in a position of power because being their chosen appointment he wouldn't dare open his gob declaring dissent. He thinks Moyesy is so indebted to Fergie and Sir Bobby that he will be a yes man until he achieves enough to come into his own. He also says that if the Glazers go over Fegie's head he will be outraged and do everything in his power including political influence and fan unrest to oust them much the Rock and Gibraltar fiasco. I tend to not agree with him though, he sometimes has a very negative view of life.

I would tend not to agree with him either. Everything in the garden's rosy and you can't trust what us old blokes say. Caustic indeed. ;)
 
Its another assumption that another manager would come in and have us playing great football and winning games immediately.

We were hardly scintillating under Fergie last year and won a lot of games on the back of vital goals.

The point I'm trying to make is that Sir Alex was given time at United, and tried to do things a different way to other clubs. He hand picked a manager who he must believe is the right man to take the club forward - and told the fans to get behind him and give him time. Instead a lot of people are now clamoruing for him to be sacked and replaced 8 months in - like Chelsea, City and Real Madrid have done in the past - sackings which have seen fans on here calling clubs " a joke" for doing just that.

We've had one man in charge for 25 years while other clubs panicked - now the moment things arent going well everyone is calling for the managers head before he's even had a chance to build his own team.

What marked United out as different was the consistency and patience the club had when things werent going well. There has been poor spells and fergie was able to rebuild and get us back challenging. Its cyclical and we were always gfoing to see a drop off this year, even if it worse than we thought it would be. Seems a lot of fans just want is to be like Chelsea, City or the other trigger happy clubs.

I appreciate that managers need time. And even a top class manager needs time. But a top class manager would show at least a slight indication that he knows what he is doing. That's the problem. There is no evidence that Moyes knows what he's doing. The fact SAF chose him does not nullify criticism either. If anything, I see it as a problem. I don't think a retiring manager should hand pick his successor. I think there should be a clean break.

Like everyone who's on the spectrum: unconvinced about DM - doesn't have any faith in DM, we'd all like to be proved wrong. I think most people carry some sliver of hope that somehow, he'll pull a rabbit out of a hat and all of a sudden he looks more than competent. But it's hard to ignore the terrible football, the lack of team cohesion (more than anything, I feel like we are a cluster of individuals who face actual teams), the selection and numerous bad results. He's got nothing going for him other than SAF chose him. For me, that's not really enough. Everyone is fallible and capable of making bad decisions. Doesn't matter who you are.

I concede it's an assumption to think a much better manager would have done better than Moyes. But I'll stand by it. If there's an actual top class manager instated this year or next, I'll eat my hat if he does as badly as Moyes. I promise.
 
1) Its extremely unlikely that they wouldn't be an upgrade over Moyes. Heck, I'd argue most knowledgeable fans would probably be an upgrade over him.

2) Even if results weren't going our way, someone like Klopp will definitely implement a more attractive football philosophy compared to Moyes' hoofball and 'cross for Scotland' style...if you dignify it as a style.

3) Klopp and Van Gaal have won things. Moyes has won a grand total of zilch.


I'd be happy to give someone like Klopp as much time as he needs since his track record and style suggests he'll make us come good. On the other hand the thought of another season with Moyes makes me feel hopeless and dejected, its depressing. I'm sure the players feel the same way too. I mean FFS, imagine going into the changing room at HT where we're chasing a game and you have this to motivate you:
Gollum.PNG

I don't know why people say that. What if Klopp doesn't succedd, do we sack him? It is something that has a very low probability to happen. It is like saying if we sell Young and sing Ronaldo, but Ronaldo doesn't play better than Young, do we sell Ronaldo too? It is nonsense.

Both Van Gaal and Klopp are sure bets that they will be significant improvements on Moyes. Why people doubt that is beyong my reasoning.
 
No doubt a proven manager would still be struggling with this team - but to same extent as moyes? Give me a break. Its criminal that he got the job. I can only imagine how we will all look back on this in years to come.....

Hes made mistakes at nearly every turn and can have no complaints WHEN the inevitable happens.
 
I don't know why people say that. What if Klopp doesn't succedd, do we sack him? It is something that has a very low probability to happen. It is like saying if we sell Young and sing Ronaldo, but Ronaldo doesn't play better than Young, do we sell Ronaldo too? It is nonsense.

Both Van Gaal and Klopp are sure bets that they will be significant improvements on Moyes. Why people doubt that is beyong my reasoning.

Seconded.
 
I can only imagine how we will all look back on this in years to come.....

Yeah, I wonder the same thing. Unless he starts performing miracles, it'll be seen as a huge mistake and that we shouldn't have involved Fergie after he retired to the degree we have. The longer it continues, the more it might be seen as the start of the downfall. No club is immune to major decline. Bad decisions repeatedly, will cost us.
 
1) Its extremely unlikely that they wouldn't be an upgrade over Moyes. Heck, I'd argue most knowledgeable fans would probably be an upgrade over him.

2) Even if results weren't going our way, someone like Klopp will definitely implement a more attractive football philosophy compared to Moyes' hoofball and 'cross for Scotland' style...if you dignify it as a style.

3) Klopp and Van Gaal have won things. Moyes has won a grand total of zilch.


I'd be happy to give someone like Klopp as much time as he needs since his track record and style suggests he'll make us come good. On the other hand the thought of another season with Moyes makes me feel hopeless and dejected, its depressing. I'm sure the players feel the same way too. I mean FFS, imagine going into the changing room at HT where we're chasing a game and you have this to motivate you:
Gollum.PNG

Another manager may be an upgrade - but surely you can only make that decision after he's had some time to do what he thinks he needs to do. It also begs the question as to what the fans would be happy with. Asi it is top 4 would be fine - but I suspect if we were a long way off the pace now in 4th Moyes would still be getting critisicm so its all relative.
 
Yeah, I wonder the same thing. Unless he starts performing miracles, it'll be seen as a huge mistake and that we shouldn't have involved Fergie after he retired to the degree we have. The longer it continues, the more it might be seen as the start of the downfall. No club is immune to major decline. Bad decisions repeatedly will cost us.

I got lambasted by a few on here for saying appointing Moyes could turn us into Liverpool.....allowing him another season could put us in that exact position.

He has to he removed. End of the season at the latest
 
I got lambasted by a few on here for saying appointing Moyes could turn us into Liverpool.....allowing him another season could put us in that exact position.

He has to he removed. End of the season at the latest

Yeah, I think we are still some way off that, mainly because we're still in a very strong financial position and have better players and infrastructure in place. But I could see that being a danger if he's still in place end of next season and still without a clue.

I'd love an actual top class manager to take over this summer. But somehow I think the board would stick by Moyes even if he'd lose the next 4-5 games on the trot. And he'll be given at least until January.

@Big Ben Foster
Maybe so. Maybe. But he's not the only option. And if we were to go for him, we could offer him everything. Like we did for Rooney.
 
That's all well and good, but the lack of faith among fans is coming from his inability to motivate and instil tactics other than the shite we've seen with the squad that he currently has. It's not like he's going to be able to offload as many players as he wants this summer anyway, there's a strong possibility that many of the current crop will be still here next season.

My point is, he hasn't made the most of what he has, which is a very good squad of players. It's ultimately still SAF's team, but should that be made out to be as big an excuse as it has? I don't think so.

He hasnt made the most of what he has - so therefore after 8 months learning on the job you give him the sack? Harsh for me. He wasnt a ready made replacement, that much was evident and the fact that he has been given such a long contract suggests that the club were well aware that he may not get it right immediately.

It seems to me that at the first sign of trouble fans are calling for his head. he is not a Klopp, Van Gaal or Mourinho - but the board, and Sir Alex obviously felt that he had the potential to do a good job long term.

Fans need to decide what they want. Either you appoint a big name who hopefully brings success - but who may move on after 3 or 4 years, leaving you back where you started, or you give someone the chance to build a side and hopefully stay true to the clubs values.

I suspect before Fergie left most fans would have went with the latter. A poor season and everyone is suddenly after the former.

Choosing a short term fix brings its own problems - specifically, managers only thinking about the here and now rather than looking at developing young talent long term - because a club who sacks managers in a year in tells you that you need results now. Mourinho was criticsied on here on that score - seems a lot have changed their minds.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and will have one. I take a pragmatic view - for me giving the manager (whomever that is) time to get things right is a must unless you want to go into the regular cycle of hiring/firing and large turnover of players every three years like City and Chelsea.

Moyes has been poor - that doesn't mean if given the time and money to bring in new players he will still be. If it means we dont have a lot of success for a couple of years then so be it. Likewise, he may not be the man for the job, but in my view a lot of people dont consider the size of the task in following Sir Alex and the reshaping that needs to happen in the sqaud.
 
Moyes has to learn and try to adapt. First try to improve our style. It's not all his fault, the players have to share a big part of the blame. The Kagawa video in that thread just highlighted how diabolically a couple aspects about our team. Firstly, our movement in possession is dreadful. I don't blame our centre backs for hitting it long at times because the movement is non-existent. When Kagawa came on he helped it but still wasn't enough. The whole attack and midfield needed to move more, which is one of the many reasons we struggle when players put men behind the ball. Another, we're far too lethargic in possession. Tempo too is non-existent. No movement and no tempo, how would you expect to bypass the opposition midfield and create chances?

Also, in that video it showed us clipping the ball out-wide when we could have played it through the middle. Too many silly passes. It wasn't the same vs Palace but some of the things still applied. MORE MOVEMENT AND UP THE TEMPO. We need to try and play short snappy passes. I don't really see Cleverley doing that no which is a shame. PASS AND MOVE. It's a basic thing in football which we can't do.

Moyes for me as long as I've tried to preach patience he seems out of his depth. Some bizarre decisions too. Like leaving Januzaj out of the squad. He's started one game in 3/4 weeks. If we carry on playing with no tempo and movement then we'll struggle. It's nothing new, it's been happening all season. Only in spurts have we upped the tempo and passed/moved and it's usually worked but as long as we take this lethargic approach to games we'll continue to drop points and confidence will be low.
As I said earlier, it's not all Moyes but he could certainly improve it.
 
I agree - it doesnt explain why we are in 7th - which clearly isn't acceptable. Moyes seems to be struggling with the job as it stands and may prove to be out of his depth. In my opinion you dont make a knee jerk decision 8 months in given all of the upheaval at the club. Perhaps Moyes would do it differently if given the chance but he is learning on the job and was not brought in as the finished article. I also suspect that the upper management of the club might do things differently as well.

I suspect we'd all be happy with top 4 now, but I suspect the razors would still be out for Moyes if we were in 4th anyway.

As regards "sugar daddy" clubs - United can compete with these clubs financially if they choose to. You can always argue "they have more money" and they technically have a limitless supply. But Chelsea and City will only spend to a degree because buying 6 or 7 players every year is counter productive. FFP may not be the answer to all problems but clubs in this country are clearly trying to pay lip service.

Moyes will, by all accounts have a lot of money to spend - and can offer transfers and wages to match the worlds top clubs (and offer more than a lot of them can or will) If he gets quality players then hopefully we see an improvement. If not, then clearly the issue is with the man alone and not the players, at which time its fair to sack him.

A lot of people want to blame Moyes because they hope that if it is all him, then if he goes the probelms are solved. I have no burning desire to stick up for Moyes, but I personally question how wise it is to give a man a job you know will take more than a year then sack him after 8 months. I personally think if he were a more fashionable manager in this position there would be a lot more call to "give him time".

What happens if we sack him and appoint Van Gaal or Klopp and they dont succeed? Do you sack them after half a season as well?

The club is in transition. Moyes has been left with a squad of ageing players and has been given the difficult task of moving them on and replacing them. He's also had to deal with a new Chief Executive who is learning on the job and a massive amount of pressure. A world class manager may have dealt with this better, but that's not the route the club went.

Thanks for this sensible reply. I personally have no problem with the appointment of Moyes. There are some logical reasons behind it, in overall package of sentimental combined with potential.

Just to address few points I'm not totally sold. First, these more fashionable managers would be given "more time" just because they had proved themselves in other clubs at high level. It's been discussed by many in here.

Just like if Mack Zuckerberg, for unknown reason decides to leave Facebook and is hired as CEO by MySpace. With his track record, it's logical to give him more time if he struggles so much in his first couple years, than if the CEO was someone from Lycos.

Second point, just based on observation, the reason most the Cafties who want him out now because there's no slight sign that everything would turn good in the future. Moyes is not a young manager, and he's been in the premier league for almost 10 years. It's hard to change one's vision and mentality, if you are on your 50's.

I assume that one of the strong reason United hired him because of stability and experience he could provide, thus a smooth transition was expected.
And he has failed.

If he's this 'fashionable' manager, people can hold on to something that he 'might' come good. Just like Nani. He is struggling right now, but we all know he'd been excellent for couple years in the past. His ceiling is known. Thus people are more willing to give him chance. It's the same with Fellaini.

Now if we sign Giroud, for example. He's been a good striker at Arsenal, but really not top of the line. Then, at United, he really struggle after 8 months, missing obvious chances, and only score few goals. And he is our MAIN striker, who has to play every game (because his contract say so). Don't you want him gone? Don't you want us to get better striker after that first season? or do you want United to stick with him for another year, hoping he comes good?
 
Last edited:
Fans need to decide what they want. Either you appoint a big name who hopefully brings success - but who may move on after 3 or 4 years, leaving you back where you started, or you give someone the chance to build a side and hopefully stay true to the clubs values.

I suspect before Fergie left most fans would have went with the latter. A poor season and everyone is suddenly after the former.

Not really, as last summer poll (in the Caf, though) has suggested. Most (if not, ALL) in here have acknowledged a bumpy transition after Fergie left. Thus, many had the opinion that Mou, although he'd be in here for short time, could bring United through this transition period smoothly, before hand it on to this long-term manager appointment.
 
Now my grand-dad has gotten a little caustic with age and we have to take everything he says with a pinch of salt. He blames Fergie for a lot of things - including the incident with Briann Kidd, his treatment of Keane, Beckham's sale and Fergie's public demeaning of Victoria, Rock of Gibraltar, his son being an agent linked to the club etc etc. He reckons Moyesy is a puppet to push the vendettas of those two and keep them in a position of power because being their chosen appointment he wouldn't dare open his gob declaring dissent. He thinks Moyesy is so indebted to Fergie and Sir Bobby that he will be a yes man until he achieves enough to come into his own. He also says that if the Glazers go over Fegie's head he will be outraged and do everything in his power including political influence and fan unrest to oust them much the Rock and Gibraltar fiasco. I tend to not agree with him though, he sometimes has a very negative view of life.

:lol::lol: what a lovely grand-dad.
 
Also, in that video it showed us clipping the ball out-wide when we could have played it through the middle. Too many silly passes. It wasn't the same vs Palace but some of the things still applied. MORE MOVEMENT AND UP THE TEMPO. We need to try and play short snappy passes. I don't really see Cleverley doing that no which is a shame. PASS AND MOVE. It's a basic thing in football which we can't do.

One of the problems with David Moyes so far is his apparent insistence on playing a very rigid form of 4-4-2. Personally i find that bizarre in the first place, because in this day and age a midfield 2 is going to have major problems facing either a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3- in terms of possession (never mind facing a team like Bayern or Barca). However if you're flexible it can work, because your wide players can come narrow to outnumber (or match) the opposition, or your striker can come deep to do the same.

However the problem that Moyes seems unable or unwilling to accept is that our midfielders all sit deep. It certainly suits Carrick, Cleverley and Jones. Fellaini may be different, but I doubt he has the engine to play a true box to box role in a 4-4-2. Certainly when he played in a 4-4-2 v Palace at home and Southampton, he sat deep alongside Carrick. Whether that was under instruction I'm not sure.

Playing 4-4-2 with two deep sitting midfielders is total suicide. You end up with exactly the problems we saw on Tuesday, a formation that looks like this.

4-2-2-1-1.png


Note the massive gap in the middle of the field. Our attacking 4 are miles away from each other. If we manage to get the ball to the winger or to Rooney, he has almost no options.

This was played out on Tuesday. The ball would go across the back four and eventually get picked up by Carrick or Cleverley. However those two sat so deep that to get the ball to the wingers, the wingers had to drop deep and collect. However then the winger is sat on the half way line, with RvP, Rooney and the opposite winger a full 60 yards away. What can he do?

If Rooney dropped deep to collect the ball it made things worse. Again, Carrick and Clev were so deep that to get the ball he had to drop practically into the centre circle. Quite apart from being marked by two central midfielders, he then has just three options - two wingers and a lone striker, all of which are at least 40 yards from him. if by some miracle he gets the ball to a winger, he then has one person to aim at, RvP, who is being marked by at least two centre backs.

This, I'm afraid to say, has happened again and again this season. It happened as far back as the home game against Southampton. Indeed if anything it seems to be getting worse. Moyes hasn't learned. Of for some reason is hoping it will go away.

Consider instead this clip from the very best 4-4-2 to grace a field, the 1998-99 team. It shows exactly how to make a 4-4-2 work (and give us the chance to cheer ourselves up too.)

Manchester_United_Bayern_Mnche_9036f73a5cae65694860b1e6443a7bb9.gif


The ball comes wide to Giggs (yes it helps having him able to beat three men alone). When he crosses it into the middle, look in the box. As well as Cole and Yorke, Scholes is in there playing as a third striker. The defenders then cover the three of them and it leaves space for Roy Keane to burst late onto the scene and hammer it home totally unmarked.

By having two attacking midfielders in the middle it overloads the opposition. The defenders are trying to cover three players in the box, and the extra man gets space to play. If you rely on just 2 wingers and 2 strikers and spread them over the whole pitch, you have no hope.

Just to be clear by the way, I'm not saying that its Cleverley or Carrick's fault. They are who they are, neither are attacking midfielders. They're far more comfy in a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 where they can play deep and they have lots of players in front of them to offload the ball too. Carrick was awesome against Palace in a 4-2-3-1. (Well, good anyway)

What's irritating is that so many of our other players are also better playing quick short passes close to their team mates. RvP, Rooney, Wellbeck, Nani, Kagawa & Januzaj are all better suited to a 4-2-3-1 than the way we've played this season. Indeed for the last 5 or 10 minutes we went to a kind of 4-2-3-1 with Kagawa, Wellbeck, Young behind RvP (Rooney alongside Carrick) and we looked, well, a little better at least. We at least had some possession vaguely near their penalty area.

This, ultimately, is why I worry about so much about Moyes. He just got his tactics totally wrong on Tuesday, again. He picked a formation that didn't suit the players, or the occasion, and one that has failed repeatedly all season - then seemed surprised when it didn't work.
 
Thanks for this sensible reply. I personally have no problem with the appointment of Moyes. There are some logical reasons behind it, in overall package of sentimental combined with potential.

Just to address few points I'm not totally sold. First, these more fashionable managers would be given "more time" just because they had proved themselves in other clubs at high level. It's been discussed by many in here.

Just like if Mack Zuckerberg, for unknown reason decides to leave Facebook and is hired as CEO by MySpace. With his track record, it's logical to give him more time if he struggles so much in his first couple years, than if the CEO was someone from Lycos.

Second point, just based on observation, the reason most the Cafties who want him out now because there's no slight sign that everything would turn good in the future. Moyes is not a young manager, and he's been in the premier league for almost 10 years. It's hard to change one's vision and mentality, if you are on your 50's.

I assume that one of the strong reason United hired him because of stability and experience he could provide, thus a smooth transition was expected.
And he has failed.

If he's this 'fashionable' manager, people can hold on to something that he 'might' come good. Just like Nani. He is struggling right now, but we all know he'd been excellent for couple years in the past. His ceiling is known. Thus people are more willing to give him chance. It's the same with Fellaini.

Now if we sign Giroud, for example. He's been a good striker at Arsenal, but really not top of the line. Then, at United, he really struggle after 8 months, missing obvious chances, and only score few goals. And he is our MAIN striker, who has to play every game (because his contract say so). Don't you want him gone? Don't you want us to get better striker after that first season? or do you want United to stick with him for another year, hoping he comes good?

I agree regards fashionable managers - and I understand that those with a track record may get a bit more leeway.

I accept what you're saying, and I accept the opinion that some have that he isnt what we need. But your analogy regarding strikers isnt the same. Changing a forward is one thing, changing a manager, all of the backroom staff and umpteen players the new manager may or may not fancy is totally different. As fergie said, the manager has to be the most improtant part of the set up, or you risk having chaos.

I have no objection to people believing we've made the wrong choice, so far it looks like it might be the case. I just believe that having made the decision the club needs to give it time to work out - rather than panicking and making a rash decision. That sets a dangerous precedent for getting rid as soon as things look like they're not working.

If you do that you risk having to start again every three or four years when the top managers move on the Madird, Barca or wherever esle on the managers merry go round.

You also risk ending up in a position like City - good season last year but the manager sacked because they didnt win the league. I personally dont think that's a sensible way to run a club long term.
 
Not really, as last summer poll (in the Caf, though) has suggested. Most (if not, ALL) in here have acknowledged a bumpy transition after Fergie left. Thus, many had the opinion that Mou, although he'd be in here for short time, could bring United through this transition period smoothly, before hand it on to this long-term manager appointment.

That assumes you have a "long term" appointment in mind. Surely you are just putting off the inevitable - i.e. a manager with little experience of managing a big club? Or you appoint another marquee manager and start the cycle again?

I'ver seen some people on here push the lieks of Solksjaer or Giggs as future managers - with no reason other than they are ex-players. I suspect that's what youre alluding to in terms of a long term appointment, but I dont see how that is any less risky than appointing Moyes now.
 
Its another assumption that another manager would come in and have us playing great football and winning games immediately.

We were hardly scintillating under Fergie last year and won a lot of games on the back of vital goals.

The point I'm trying to make is that Sir Alex was given time at United, and tried to do things a different way to other clubs. He hand picked a manager who he must believe is the right man to take the club forward - and told the fans to get behind him and give him time. Instead a lot of people are now clamoruing for him to be sacked and replaced 8 months in - like Chelsea, City and Real Madrid have done in the past - sackings which have seen fans on here calling clubs " a joke" for doing just that.

We've had one man in charge for 25 years while other clubs panicked - now the moment things arent going well everyone is calling for the managers head before he's even had a chance to build his own team.

What marked United out as different was the consistency and patience the club had when things werent going well. There has been poor spells and fergie was able to rebuild and get us back challenging. Its cyclical and we were always gfoing to see a drop off this year, even if it worse than we thought it would be. Seems a lot of fans just want is to be like Chelsea, City or the other trigger happy clubs.

If Mourinho was appointed as Man Utd manager we would top of the league for sure and would have taken Olympikos apart simply because the promise has come to pass.... Mourinho is just destined to manage United.

The longer we droll about how much time Moyes needs is just sickening. Wake up and smell the roses. We have appointed a B grade manager in Moyes for the greatest footballing job in the world.

The faster we bring Mourinho to this club the better. And who's to say Mourinho will not manage United for the next 6 season and beyond? Just because other clubs could not satisfy him does not mean Man Utd cannot. I even bet he will break SFA's records if he is given 26 years. Only one problem here... and I hate to say this..... Fergie's pride and ego.

The reality... Mourinho is for United. No one else can do the job... and please do not suggest any other hopefuls.
 
I agree regards fashionable managers - and I understand that those with a track record may get a bit more leeway.

I accept what you're saying, and I accept the opinion that some have that he isnt what we need. But your analogy regarding strikers isnt the same. Changing a forward is one thing, changing a manager, all of the backroom staff and umpteen players the new manager may or may not fancy is totally different. As fergie said, the manager has to be the most improtant part of the set up, or you risk having chaos.

I have no objection to people believing we've made the wrong choice, so far it looks like it might be the case. I just believe that having made the decision the club needs to give it time to work out - rather than panicking and making a rash decision. That sets a dangerous precedent for getting rid as soon as things look like they're not working.

If you do that you risk having to start again every three or four years when the top managers move on the Madird, Barca or wherever esle on the managers merry go round.

You also risk ending up in a position like City - good season last year but the manager sacked because they didnt win the league. I personally dont think that's a sensible way to run a club long term.

Theres never going to be another Fergie mate. Just let it go, football has moved on. The sooner we do the better.
 
If Mourinho was appointed as Man Utd manager we would top of the league for sure and would have taken Olympikos apart simply because the promise has come to pass.... Mourinho is just destined to manage United.

The longer we droll about how much time Moyes needs is just sickening. Wake up and smell the roses. We have appointed a B grade manager in Moyes for the greatest footballing job in the world.

The faster we bring Mourinho to this club the better. And who's to say Mourinho will not manage United for the next 6 season and beyond? Just because other clubs could not satisfy him does not mean Man Utd cannot. I even bet he will break SFA's records if he is given 26 years. Only one problem here... and I hate to say this..... Fergie's pride and ego.

The reality... Mourinho is for United. No one else can do the job... and please do not suggest any other hopefuls.
The Mourinho ship has sailed unfortunately.
 
I don't think it has to be honest. He wouldn't be my first choice but I think he'd jump at the chance of managing us.
If United sacked Moyes and approached Mourinho at the end of the season, you really think he'd leave Chelsea to join us?
 
Who realistically is available in the summer (better than 50% chance of joining us) that could do well for us?

I can think of Diego Simeone but who else?
 
Who realistically is available in the summer (better than 50% chance of joining us) that could do well for us?

I can think of Diego Simeone but who else?
This is an issue, we really made a balls of last summer when better managers were available. Simeone wouldn't even be a definite. We'd probably go all out for Klopp.
 
Theres never going to be another Fergie mate. Just let it go, football has moved on. The sooner we do the better.

Jurgen Klopp will possibly do a Ferguson at Dortmund.

There will be another manager who stays at one club long term and wins many trophies however until it happens we should do take a quality manager who will win things and another quality manager who will win things when that manager leaves. Eventually one will come and he will stay for a long, long time.

Winning > Stability.

I don't know what Abromovich wants but if it's winning perhaps giving a manager time is worth it if that manager has shown something promising.

Moyes has no track record, he has gone through a bad patch and I fail to see any signs of improvement so I won't back him.

Klopp too has gone through a bad patch yet we all know what he can do so I would back him if I were a Dortmund fan.

People say Glazers don't want trophies but winners will get record breaking commercial deals and this they want so they would be meticulous in spotting a manager that can win things with a reasonable transfer budget.

Let us find he who can bring us glory and when he goes then so be it, we find somebody else who'll bring us glory.
 
I don't think Mourinho would leave Chelsea for a long time and he certainly wouldn't want to leave as a pariah amongst their fans.
 
Who realistically is available in the summer (better than 50% chance of joining us) that could do well for us?

I can think of Diego Simeone but who else?

Heynkes? Van Gaal? De Boer?

I'd even rather have Zeman than Moyes. At least that would be exciting.
 
Who realistically is available in the summer (better than 50% chance of joining us) that could do well for us?

I can think of Diego Simeone but who else?

Van Gaal and Hiddink. The former would be my pick.

There is no way Mourinho is leaving Chelsea for us, that's just absurd. He was available last summer but we opted for Moyes instead. I doubt his ego could take being the second choice to Moyes, even to prove what a ridiculous decision it was to not give him the job over Moyes. He's going to be at Chelsea, probably until he has a falling out with Abramovich or maybe until the Portugal job becomes available.
 
Van Gaal and Hiddink. The former would be my pick.

There is no way Mourinho is leaving Chelsea for us, that's just absurd. He was available last summer but we opted for Moyes instead. I doubt his ego could take being the second choice to Moyes, even to prove what a ridiculous decision it was to not give him the job over Moyes. He's going to be at Chelsea, probably until he has a falling out with Abramovich or maybe until the Portugal job becomes available.

Even then I can only see him leaving after a European Cup win or two.
 
Unfortunately the reality is we'll be replacing players in the summer and not the manager.

We need to do both and I think we will replace the manager if the performances carry on like they have for the past two months. Just get this feeling the tide has turned and there are bigger and financial aspects that will have gotten the board worried if Moyes still remains in the summer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.