without doubt. You don't keep Everton competing at the level they did with the "no" budget line given to him without having some nouse...that is for sure.
Moyes So Far!
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without doubt. You don't keep Everton competing at the level they did with the "no" budget line given to him without having some nouse...that is for sure.
If he didnt think we're playing well, why say so? Why bring up luck every interview but not mention we didnt play well even once?
fwiw, I like him as a guy. And I do think he's a good manager. This job doesnt look like its for him though.
He has dude. Whether he truly believes it is another matter.
It is wing play but a poorly thought out one. Also one that is very very one dimensional. There's very little variety to the crosses and absolutely no attempt to play though the middle.
And that's probably his level - overachieving with a squad of good players signed at relatively low fees with little to no expectation put on the club. It's a completely different kettle to manage at top level where success is essential.
One thing about Moyes so far is that in his position you are kind of forced to use what you've got. For all that people go on about how we are the defending champions and should be doing better but for Dave there's an equal number or more who say Valencia is shit, Young is shit, Vidic & Rio are past it, Smalling is not there yet (if he ever will be), we have no midfield, et cetera.
To me is seems like a perfect storm of things that could go wrong and for the most part we're left clutching at straws to say why.
To me is seems like a perfect storm of things that could go wrong and for the most part we're left clutching at straws to say why.
He's "good" aye, he's "alright" like... He's just mid table. Him getting it right, or turning it around at United will probably mean him being back in contention for 4th, maybe snatching it.
We didn't play our football but, it was the one game I think from the start we played with energy and desire for majority of the game. More often than not this season we've only played barely 20-30 minutes a game with any kind of intensity.
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...Sir-Alex-Ferguson-is-at-fault-for-Man-Utd-rot
Keano's take on our problems.
Keano's take on our problems.
Did he actually say that? Reminds me of that RvP quote.
I don't actually believe we did dominate the Fulham game that much, if we did we certainly don't deserve credit for it. Their gameplan basically saw to that.
I completely agree that that is his level, and not Manchester United. But he's still a capable manager. Some poster's genuinely believe Moyes to be a moronic idiot, and it's simply not the case. He's a good manager at a great club.
I don't think they really did though. Most people within football wanted it to work, whether or not they thought it would. They've been banging on about British managers not being given a fair chance for so long that criticising one getting the United job would've been hypocritical, or certainly not well received. Whether any would've done the same thing if the decision was up to them - at United or their own club - is another matter. We already know no other club of our stature would've hired him.
Which sort of does go against my "the top people must know what they're doing" attitude tbf, but then....well.......[trails off]
Yeah, agreed. Fourth is the ceiling for Moyes. But he deserves better than to be labelled a complete idiot, because he's not.
He won't let it go with SAF will he?
Indeed. I have no doubt that he would be a success at another mid-table club if given enough time to implement his ideas. At United he won't
He won't but I don't think he's entirely wrong. The latter years of Fergies reign he either signed big names RVP, who became available, but we didn't actually need, or signed cheap options for midfield, who were all potential but no quality. We needed the finished article for midfield, the prospects should be coming through our academy sytem, not buying other teams prospects.
We didn't even do that, what midfield prospects have we bought in the last 5 years?
What's your logic for saying this?
During his stint at Everton, it would be quite an accurate statement. They never once finished higher than fourth but usually had a good crack at getting in to the top four.
Please explain why this ceiling would remain in place with a vastly superior squad of players at his disposal?
Just my gut feeling with the man. Nothing more, nothing less.
Powell who has apparently turned into a striker
A lot of people always say that our young managers should try their hand abroad. I think Moyes should have tried that, if he had and was successful he might have been the man for us. I think he stayed at Everton too long and the football he played was sufficient to keep Bill Kenwright happy. Although I don't actually think he is playing Everton style football here.
'Madman Keano blasts Furious Fergie!' (mentions of Frogie - 0)
They were in genuine contention for top 4 about twice, no? Last season was the closest they got since 2005 I think.
I'd agree with him. Unless moyes changes most things that he's tried doing so far, then I don't think he has it in him to challenge for titles. The football we play is percentage football, we don't really play through teams ever or attack with speed. Of course you can have days where it all goes right but then there's also days like against Fulham. It's just lumping it into the box enough times to get somebody on the end of it. That style isn't one that can win trophies, you need to vary it up a bit and until moyes shows he can get his teams to do that, then I don't think we'll get much further then 4th.
I agree to an extent, but to quote Moysie, we have had our fair share of bad luck in that area. Fletcher, Ando and Hargreaves being injuried, Pogba leaving (poor management or bad luck, depends how you look at it i guess), Cleverley not kicking on and Chelsea/City hoovering up most of the top end talent and contributing to this no value thing. Agree in general though, we should have addressed this well before the summer.
If he was keeping a mid table club at a respectable level he'd be doing well, and he's capable of it. If he keeps doing what he's doing with this United team, in the way he's doing it, then he's an idiot. He's going to be given a fortune in the summer, which is mental. A manager fitting of United would have this current squad comfortably in the top 4 and given the money it seems like Moyes will be given would have us as serious contenders for both the league and European cup next year.
If moyes would atleast show he's capable of doing better with the current squad from now until the end of the season keeping him on would be justified. It doesn't seem like he can change it though.
Tbh I am probably going back even further, which is scary that the problem has been there that long. He convinced himself Anderson was the right man. He bought Jones, who is essentially a CB, but has been shoehorned into the midfield. Powell, who I do think is good, but is he a midfielder or a striker? We had a midfielder in dare I say Pogba, but Manchester United morals got in the way again and we let him go, but we poached him off another club. This is actually a scarily short list.
The worst thing for me is the complete lack of fluidity. We seldom score from good team plays, it's mostly through chance more than invention.
Moyes doesn't care whether we play good football. It's never been an issue for him.
There is no denying that Fergie had neglected this issue for way too long, even more amazing that he managed to win the league with ease in his last season. The rest of the team is fine though.Tbh I am probably going back even further, which is scary that the problem has been there that long. He convinced himself Anderson was the right man. He bought Jones, who is essentially a CB, but has been shoehorned into the midfield. Powell, who I do think is good, but is he a midfielder or a striker? We had a midfielder in dare I say Pogba, but Manchester United morals got in the way again and we let him go, but we poached him off another club. This is actually a scarily short list.
I wouldn't label him an idiot for being out of his depth.
I forgot all about Hargreaves.
I forgot all about Hargreaves.
Shame, just the player we could use imo.
Yeah, all of our chances lately have been through just hoofs up field, or a defensive mistake from the opposition or a set piece team. When was the last time we had a good counter attack, or played our way through a team? Probably the last time kagawa played to be honest, but moyes doesn't fancy him. It's improved slightly with mata but nobody else expects his passes because of how static everyone else is.
I agree with most of that. But I'm not going to bother trying to convince myself of that because the evidence I'm staring at is completely contrary. I have a feeling that it's not stupidity that's the issue in all of this but rather stubbornness, idealism and old fashioned thinking.
Sir Alex, loveable as he is to all of us, is stuck up on some values that he thinks sets us apart while teams these days are progressing and excelling on the basis of other values becoming more and more relevant in today's game leaving the values and methods he cherishes feeling a bit old and dusty. I think there's an obsession with width at the club and it comes from every quarter within the club. What explanation is there otherwise, of the supposed greatest manager ever, known for his attacking teams, building a final team as dull to watch as paint dry and lopsided in the way it plays the game? There's no logical explanation. We had the joint best squad last season along with City Hence won the title but what explains our complete laziness towards passing football and technical excellence? The way it comes across to me is that sir Alex took his eye of the ball and frankly, didn't recognize the progression the game had taken. It was clear as day in the cl final, twice. People wondered why in earth such a great manager would set his team up so naively getting shat on in misfiled, they wondered how he could put a team out in two finals that barca said they loved playing against because they "let them play". I think his man management and motivational skills were at heir very best towards the fag end of his career, but in terms of coaching and football quality, time maybe got the better of him.
Then there is idealism. We seem to be the most idealistic football club around. Missed out on Eden hazard for 6 million pounds (6 7ths of a bebe) and despite getting slaughtered every now and then by narrow and technically strong midfielders, we don't budge from our "far apart system". We seem to think Scottish dourness is the solution to all of life's problems and hired a manager who barring his last season, always made Everton play mid table football. How we thought a manager who had such a poor record against big sides, and never got Everton to play really high quality football would be good enough for a club of this size.
The way I see it those characteristics of being old fashioned and stubborn and idealistic with old fashioned notions is how I right now see it. But my opinion and feeling on this changes quite frequently so maybe tomorrow I will manage to hang on to the thread of the great wisdom you're trying to dangle from
Wing play was us against bayern in the first half our cl game. It was what bayern have done with the rest of the footballing world using Ribery and robben. It's not aimless crossing, attack after attack.
I used to love the fact that we played with width. I used to prefer it to arsenals possession football. This is a horrible caricature of that. It's joke football, it really is.
That's what most United fans thought about Hargreaves when he was still on our books.
Is he still bleeding out that oil money, on the other side?
I was properly excited when we signed him. Damn, those injuries.
I was properly excited when we signed him. Damn, those injuries.
He always hoped Manchester United would come in for him because he knew they would be more patient with his ineptitude than other clubs would?
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