Moyes So Far!

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Massive match for Moyes tonight. There is so much scrutiny on his performance now.

I'm really interested to see if there's any change to our approach to the game after the criticism received post-Fulham. I suppose, if there is one game where a feck tonne of crosses would make sense then it'd be Arsenal, although perhaps not so much this season as they have a decent CB partnership at last.
 
Journos licking their lips tonight, the chances of a dramatic headline are quite good. It's getting to be squeaky bum time, but not the good kind.
 
moses said:
Journos licking their lips tonight, the chances of a dramatic headline are quite good. It's getting to be squeaky bum time, but not the good kind.
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Yes I do feel that the media are starting to turn...starting to sense bleeding flesh like sharks around a leaky boat. Funnily enough, although some people on here were rather pleased with Moyes performance in the press conference yesterday, I have a feeling it may have broken the perseved barrier that had made the press quite patient and kind to Moyes. We'll see.
 
Come on Moyes, just give us a good performance tonight, please. You can do it!
 
Tarrou said:
Massive match for Moyes tonight. There is so much scrutiny on his performance now.

I'm really interested to see if there's any change to our approach to the game after the criticism received post-Fulham. I suppose, if there is one game where a feck tonne of crosses would make sense then it'd be Arsenal, although perhaps not so much this season as they have a decent CB partnership at last.
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I don't think there is that much pressure on him tonight really. No one expects us to beat Arsenal anyway so anything we might get here will just be a welcome bonus. If we go out and lose 3-0 it will be just another day at the office.
 
Keane is wrong IMO. We could and probably should have done better with regards to what he is talking about. But the his viewpoint of that being the main reason is a bit simplistic IMO.
 
It's a hard one to call. Nobody really expects us to win tonight and it's effectively a dead rubber, so in that sense the pressure is off for Moyes tonight. On the other hand we've underperformed horrifically this year and need to start observing some good performances.
 
How much pressure he's under depends on the Board. If they've given him a long rope no matter what happens in the short term then I'm sure some media pressure wont be an issue for him.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
It's a hard one to call. Nobody really expects us to win tonight and it's effectively a dead rubber, so in that sense the pressure is off for Moyes tonight. On the other hand we've underperformed horrifically this year and need to start observing some good performances.
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It's the right kind of fixture IMO. One where people arent expecting much from us, one which suits out more grafty and scrappy nature and one where the opposition despite being far superior to us this season is one that we tend to beat almost routinely.
 
Dracula said:
You're generally right, but these a couple of points that make a difference.

The chelsea set up is based on counter attack. Even against weaker teams they allow them to attack, they lure them out of their defence. Why does mour do this?

This is the reason he sold mata...or that mata didnt fit in with his style...and its a new style at that, very different to the 05 mourinho. The 4231 formation came about as a result of teams resort to 451 against the standard 442. The deeper, more technical 'CAM' helped against the deep midfield in 451.
As the 4231 doesnt employ standard wingers, teams are able to press high up the field, in fact they need to. What mour is doing is trying to nullify the high press by having the entire team sit deep (er) and counter with as much pace as possible. To do this you need two cm's with massive engines and are more traditional box to box-as this was the same need in the old 442 days as the strikers were busy stretching the defence.
Anyway, my point...it may be working for mourinho this year, but it isnt necessarily the 'way' to use 4231. If im honest, id say the 'best' use of the 4231 this year is actually arsenals (before injurys struck).
Almost completely different to chelsea, they use an incredibly fluid middle 3, they use the passes in replace of pace, without pandering to the arse its actually a very similar system to barca of couple years ago. Around the ball, wherever it is you have 4 players, 3 will provide the 'triangle' of passes, the fourth will move and make space to disrupt the opposition. Look at giroud, one second he will be on left wing, next on right wing, next in center, he doesnt lead the line, hes part of the same system that has passed its way down the field.
This is slightly more what our players should be able to do, however, at the moment the likes of carrick/cleverley/fellaini do not have the composure on the ball to do it. The role carrick playes comes from our older 433 style where he would be a sweeper of the midfield and fletch would be the worker.
Ironically, if you were to argue which is the best system to beat the arsenal passing/possession one, what would it be?

The mourinho one..

Sorry for the long post that didn't actually end up saying anything interesting. Oh well
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@#07 I am not looking at emulating Chelsea's style of play moreover looking at this formation and how we can use it with players we have, Chelsea was just the example that I watched last night.

Cheers @Dracula that helps immensely, I was stating to wonder if we had any chance of replicating that narrow passing system with what we have and judging by your post we sort of can, sort of can't. Certainly to risky leaving Carrick and say Cleverley with all that defensive responsibility with the composure on the ball required. Arsenal securing Flamini has been pivotal in their early success and I see now from your post where we should be going, it does look for all the more to risky given the current crop if CM's.
Looks like 4-4-2 or we could risk Carrick in the sweeper role in a 3 man.
Just to add I am trying to educate myself here, also trying to understand why Moyes keeps hammering away at 4-4-2, my initial thoughts were he's treading water tactically until we can get in the personnel required to fit the system, patience is of the essence as frustrating as it may seem.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
It's the right kind of fixture IMO. One where people arent expecting much from us, one which suits out more grafty and scrappy nature and one where the opposition despite being far superior to us this season is one that we tend to beat almost routinely.
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You're probably right, yeah. Fingers crossed we get a result anyway, for confidence sake more than anything.
 
I'd love us to stuff Arsenal, but I'd settle for a good performance with the whole team showing some passion.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
You're probably right, yeah. Fingers crossed we get a result anyway, for confidence sake more than anything.
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We need to hit some form as Olympiakos game is close and we could use a good European run. We won't win the thing but it would be nice if we actually had something to play for in March/April and save us the embarrassment of going out to such underdogs.
 
Sarni said:
We need to hit some form as Olympiakos game is close and we could use a good European run. We won't win the thing but it would be nice if we actually had something to play for in March/April and save us the embarrassment of going out to such underdogs.
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Europe's been a completely different kettle of fish this season, for whatever reason. I fully expect us to beat the Greeks, yet I'm not so sure we'll beat Palace next week...
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Europe's been a completely different kettle of fish this season, for whatever reason. I fully expect us to beat the Greeks, yet I'm not so sure we'll beat Palace next week...
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Sit back press and counter out squad and manager are built for it :) hence the success in Europe Moyesy lad lolz.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Europe's been a completely different kettle of fish this season, for whatever reason. I fully expect us to beat the Greeks, yet I'm not so sure we'll beat Palace next week...
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Aside from the two Leverkusen games where we looked fantastic I haven't been impressed with us in Europe. We were boring against Sociedad and Shakhtar should have beaten us at least once. Perhaps it's what we need, grinding out results while not performing as well as we would expect but I am not sure it will work against better teams. Olympiakos are pretty average though.
 
gasmanc said:
Sit back press and counter out squad and manager are built for it :) hence the success in Europe Moyesy lad lolz.
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Thing is our counter attacks have mostly been dire this season.

We were amazing at it during Ronaldo days. I still remember a counter attack against Bolton where Rooney and Ronaldo ripped them apart in 10 seconds, or Ronaldo's goal against Arsenal in CL.
 
Sarni said:
Aside from the two Leverkusen games where we looked fantastic I haven't been impressed with us in Europe. We were boring against Sociedad and Shakhtar should have beaten us at least once. Perhaps it's what we need, grinding out results while not performing as well as we would expect but I am not sure it will work against better teams. Olympiakos are pretty average though.
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We've played 6 games in Europe.

You'd have to be incredibly negative to deliberately ignore the 2 games we played best in (against the most highly rated opponents) when you're making conclusions about our overall campaign.
 
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Sarni said:
Thing is our counter attacks have mostly been dire this season.

We were amazing at it during Ronaldo days. I still remember a counter attack against Bolton where Rooney and Ronaldo ripped them apart in 10 seconds, or Ronaldo's goal against Arsenal in CL.
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I think we're ok when teams attack us, Moyes head falls off when they don't and we need to win, he hasn't sorted out how to have us playing attacking football against stubborn defences, whether he can or not remains to be seen.
 
akash02 said:
It wasn't.

For once, I'd like us to go all out and have a real go at Arsenal. We have nothing to lose now.
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yeah. good point. We actually have nothing to lose. I think most people think we are going to get beaten...so just relax guys and play your game. Hey..even ignore Moyes instructions if you want....:)
 
Sarni said:
Thing is our counter attacks have mostly been dire this season.

We were amazing at it during Ronaldo days. I still remember a counter attack against Bolton where Rooney and Ronaldo ripped them apart in 10 seconds, or Ronaldo's goal against Arsenal in CL.
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Even after Ronaldo left. Rooney/Nani/Park tore Arsenal to shreds. What I'd give for a performance like that tonight.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
We've played 6 games in Europe.

You'd have to be incredibly negative to deliberately ignore the 2 games we played best in (against the most highly rated opponents) when you're making conclusions about our overall campaign.
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I don't think two games are a good indication of what we could expect from the team in the rest of the campaign.

You could say the same about two games Shakhtar where we were dire and lucky to come away with 4 points (well the second half against Shakhtar at OT was all right but we could have been 3 down by half-time).
 
I fear people saying we were great in Europe may be disappointed in the same way they were also saying we were better away from home before we lost to Chelsea and Stoke.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I fear people saying we were great in Europe may be disappointed in the same way they were also saying we were better away from home before we lost to Chelsea and Stoke.
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The Stoke away was us playing against a team set up like the away team, the same can be said for Chelsea in much any game under the much coveted Mourinho.

Moyes achilles heel seems to be beating hardened defenses but not just that, keeping the lead once we've beaten them, I am sure we will become a tougher unit.
 
Any reason why he doesn't like to play the best players together? Technical players at least? Does he not realise the more we play them then we keep the ball better and don't have to focus on having hard workers too much
 
gasmanc said:
The Stoke away was us playing against a team set up like the away team, the same can be said for Chelsea in much any game under the much coveted Mourinho.

Moyes achilles heel seems to be beating hardened defenses but not just that, keeping the lead once we've beaten them, I am sure we will become a tougher unit.
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It's quite amazing to have more than just one achilles heel.

A lot of teams we have visited and won have set up like an away team in fairness. It's something we're generally used to over the years, maybe not Moyes though as he was at Everton at the time.
 
LARulz said:
Any reason why he doesn't like to play the best players together? Technical players at least? Does he not realise the more we play them then we keep the ball better and don't have to focus on having hard workers too much
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If we're talking about today's game the only one of our "best players" that isn't starting is januzaj. He's been using him very sparingly in recent weeks, which is almost certainly down to not wanting to over-play someone so young. How on earth did you conclude from this that Moyes won't play our best players together?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If we're talking about today's game the only one of our "best players" that isn't starting is januzaj. He's been using him very sparingly in recent weeks, which is almost certainly down to not wanting to over-play someone so young. How on earth did you conclude from this that Moyes won't play our best players together?
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Should have specified technical players. Everytime we get a glimpse of as many as realistically possible together they seem to enjoy the football. I know some games its not possible but in certain games he hasn't when they are games we should have plenty of the ball. It was perhaps the wrong time to say it just before this game but my point still stands. I'm not saying I don't see the merits of a Valencia or Young but we have better players.
 
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