It can't have been that bad if it got him the job.
Just sticking this here so I don't have to explain in about 10 seconds that it was just a bit of fun.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Just sticking this here so I don't have to explain in about 10 seconds that it was just a bit of fun.
You're exceptional at twisting everything aren't you?How does it not? Bad "club traditions" should be broken, giving incompetent managers far too long caused our 26yr oblivion, and now you want a repeat of exactly the very tradition that caused it?
Was Sir Alex wrong to break up the drinking culture when he started? That was part of the fabric of the club at the time too.
We're done here, you're unreasonable.
If it worked out for them, then wasn't it.. right?
You're saying they should have stuck with Hodgson despite him not being the right manager for them?
How have I twisted anything? Bad club traditions should be broken, be it the drinking culture or giving the wrong manger too much time.
I'm saying they didn't give him enough time, yes. His replacement wasn't any better.
Unless you're going to now tell me Rodgers came straight after Hodgson? They could have avoided that whole Dalgleish saga too if they'd had an ounce of patience.
I'm saying who came after Hodgson is irrelevant. Noone cares about his replacement. Using his replacement's lack of success to make him sound better is pointless. If they had replaced him when they did with Rodgers your opinion would change?
Wilf McGuinness and Frank O'Farrell were screwed over as much by the fact that the Busby handover was so badly orchestrated as anything to do with themselves. An aging team of superstars who they couldn't control with the spectre of the old boss still hanging over them.
The Doc would probably have won us the league eventually had he been able to keep his dick in his pants.
Dave Sexton probably did get too long as the mediocrity under him was stifling but he'd done a good job in the past with Chelsea so you can see why they waited.
Big Ron was entertaining and put together a great team but ultimately was too chummy with them which lead to the drinking culture that always seemed to peg us back as key players fell injured or went off the boil.
What United put up with for those two decades is what almost every other team's fans have to put up with in perpetuity, most would be more than happy with the 3 FA Cups and Charity Shield we won in that period which is why those of us that were around then think the new, entitled set if United fans are acting like spoilt brats.
CAL: Yes, I have ABU fans and they take the piss, but only to the same extent I do of their team's fates year in year out. It's banter and it's part of the reason I love football, I've actually found the last few years dull as hell since we've been playing shit that I'm too embarrassed to crow about and still winning things which has only further encouraged our entitled generation of fans to think winning is a right.
No. Even if it worked out with them. A manager needs 18 months before you even think about getting rid. It didn't look good with Hodgson but who knows what would have happened the season after. Not every manager hits the ground running.
And not every manager is good enough. Time doesn't give people the requisite abilities I'm afraid.
Anyway agree to disagree. Giving Hodgson 18 months despite it being so obvious that he was at best a decent manager is plain wrong IMO.
If the decision is wrong, it should IMO be corrected ASAP.
Well put, I can agree to disagree with that.
At the end of the day nobody knows if he'd have turned it around or not and we never will. We both have a case, and my case isn't that he'd definitely succeed, for the record, just that it wasn't enough time in my opinion.
Who said anything about WINNING? Are we complaining that Moyes has us behind City/Chelsea and not quite in the title race?
Do you honestly think the current position is acceptable given our squad and budget? We're paying much much more than Spurs/Everton/Liverpool and yet languishing behind them playing god-awful football.
I agree with this. As much as Moyes has been our Hodgson, we don't want to replace him with our version of Dalglish if we sack him now, and there will be a very high probability of that if we sack him mid-season.
With 120m you can get elmo to manage us and still get 4th
One of the most disappointing things is how there's no clear or subtle sign of a change of approach. We play the same pretty much each week. You'd have thought given the results that there would have been some evident signs of tactical re-evaluation. Instead it does genuinely seem as if the manager blames our form on not having the right players or refereeing decisions or simply being unlucky.
We're well into February of our worst season in many years and there's almost been no sign that the manager has even entertained the idea that maybe it's his tactical approach that's an issue. You wonder how long it'll take him to adapt to reality that while the playing squad may need some additions and referees can be shite - that he also plays a part in turning us around. Instead it's virtually the same-old, same-old each week, as if he genuinely thinks "Well I'm not doing anything wrong - it must be these other factors."
We're well into February of our worst season in many years and there's almost been no sign that the manager has even entertained the idea that maybe it's his tactical approach that's an issue. You wonder how long it'll take him to adapt to reality that while the playing squad may need some additions and referees can be shite - that he also plays a part in turning us around. Instead it's virtually the same-old, same-old each week, as if he genuinely thinks "Well I'm not doing anything wrong - it must be these other factors."
Not this shit again.
No one here thinks we have the right to win. If you'd notice people are happy with a top 4 spot and its not just now, its been the case since the start of the season. Seriously, the forum has been anything but a bunch of spoilt United fans. Its as simple as us currently having the resources to do much much better than we are both in terms of performance and results and as we arent 'most clubs' in that regard, the expectations go hand in hand with that.
I remember the Wilf McGuiness era - 18 months. He got us to the SF of the Cup and the League Cup in his first season and he took us to 8th place. We were 11th the season before, under Sir Matt, and we scored fewer goals. Going by most objective criteria he earned another go, despite the lack of beautiful football on the field. He was sacked the following Christmas.
I also remember that one of the players who gave him a hard time in that period was Bobby Charlton. History is nothing without context.
I also remember that one of the players who gave him a hard time in that period was Bobby Charlton. History is nothing without context.
This sums it up nicely.
It's not progress game by game but we're well over halfway now and there's been no progress at all. It's been evident for a long time things haven't worked and you'd at least expect a tactical tweak during this time, wouldn't you?
There's a difference between demanding week on week performances or reactionary sweeping changes - and being six months into the season and having the manager seemingly under the impression there's nothing he can do but retain the same system and just wait to spend £100m in the summer for more expensively players to fail at it.
That for me is a massive indightment of him. How many other managers get to take the reigns at a new club, start terribly, then lement the players they have at their disposal? 99& of new managers come in with the expectation of instant results and working well with the players they have. Now true, most new managers take over failed set-ups, so increasing moral/giving everyone a lift is probably easier... but even still, for me it's an incredibly harsh reflection of Moyes managerial ability that he has barely got any joy out of our squad - irregardless of it's faults. Off the top of my head I can think of about 5 or so games where I could honestly say we played "very well".
If we give atkinson another 4 years fergie might never happened
True, it was the likes of Bobby and Denis who were his mates from the time they'd played together who basically screwed him over by going behind his back to talk to Matt. IIRC they never actually sacked him though, he stepped aside and let Busby take the reins again with him going back to his previous coaching duties. I was only a nipper at the time though so I'm only going on what's been written in the various club histories I've read.
The way we've done things in the past - the last time, decades ago - doesn't mean we have to operate the same way for ever. Things change, clubs change and evolve, we have different people running the business.
I don't think we're likely to sack a coach after seven months, nor do I see the point - we should let him finish the season, but a second season shouldn't be a given. Would be nice if Moyes joined the list of those who stood down...
He got demoted to coach and quit a couple of weeks later. Constructive dismissal would probably be the industrial tribunal term for it.
errm when? the amount of myths going about around this period are unreal. fergie took over a team of alcoholics, who were 21st in the league - withing 18 months they were second and two seasons later went on a run of trophies that saw the fa cup, CWC, ESC, League Cup, League, League, Fa Cup all won in 5 years.
there was one lull in 89, which is completely over exaggerated. since 95, we have had i think 4 seasons without trophies...nothing has ever got worse under fergie apart from the rebuilding needed in 2005, but we still at least remained competitive and things were showing good sings (Rio, Ronaldo, Rooney and Schmeichel finally replaced)
Question....in the last 2 years. ..have we played brilliant attacking football? Or did we have loads of fans complain about static zombie passing , etc.
It seemed to me that we played the worst football out of the top 4 (and the likes of swansea and southampton) yet we were grabbing wins (thanks to rvp) and ended up winning the title.
You can blame moyes for a lot of things, even the playing style...but dont pretend he changed us from playing amazing football under SAF. We have been playjng this same style for a couple of years now.
It seemed to me that we played the worst football out of the top 4 (and the likes of swansea and southampton) yet we were grabbing wins (thanks to rvp) and ended up winning the title.
You can blame moyes for a lot of things, even the playing style...but dont pretend he changed us from playing amazing football under SAF. We have been playjng this same style for a couple of years now.
Or conversely, some of us have seen far worse, and whilst disappointed by bot results and the way we are playing our football (although it has to be said we've been playing tumescent football for a couple of years under fergie, it was just glossed over as we were still winning things) 6 months of poor play isnt enough to make me go all chicken little.
I am absolutely, 100% sure Fergie and Charlton know more about football and whats going on behind the scenes than anyone here. I'll take their judgement on this one.
You think it takes a wole season to show progress? I remember that when Klopp took over Dortmund you could see glimpses/the foundation of his title winning team's style from the very start. It was the same with van Gaal and Bayern. It wasn't perfect form the start, but you could clearly see a fundamental shift in football philosophy.
our football was ok to poor, we had flashes of brilliance and we were able to win alot of the big games.
we are currently 12th in the "table" in terms of points against the top half - 9.
Our football has not been great for a while, granted. But he's made it worse, totally one dimensional. Funnily enough, I saw the positives in Fergie's retirement because I felt we could use a new approach. But we didn't even get that.
having limited players like Phil Jones in it, plus no CM and hopeless wingers has been the main reason.
Just look at the sort of time frames you're mentioning yourself - 18 months, two seasons. Moyes has barely been in the job half a year. And you could say it's much easier showing signs of progress when you've inherited a bunch of alcoholics rather than the league's runaway champions.
Exaggerated or not, 89 was SAF's worst time at the club and I think sometimes you only find out what the team is made of after adversity.
That's just excuses. With the attacking fullbacks we have and attacking quality (which now includes Mata and Januzaj) we should be able to play good football even if the midfield is nothing more than OK.
An absolute disaster of an appointment. A yes man who achieved feck all apart from making Everton a top 7 club.
From the moment he walked in, he's said all the wrong things. Moaning about the fixtures at the start of the season worried me - then bringing in his back room staff at Everton and sacking a pretty successful on at United ranks as one of his bigger mistakes.I accept that managers like to work with what they know but he's brought a bunch of feckwits with him who think training is all about running.
Who think football is all about getting to the byeline and slinging aimless balls into the box. It's awful and he hasn't addressed anything - he's blaming everything from luck to referees and not once thinking it's his tactics or the useless cnuts he's putting on the pitch.
What he came out with after the derby day debacle should have seen him sacked on the spot. "there will be plenty more days like this, get used to it" feck OFF MOYES - we're the fecking champions! But I guess he was right. I would like to know how many more
There have been a couple of positives - the signing of Mata being the obvious one and the fact that he has managed to get rid of Anderson. But the negative far outweigh any of the good that he has done, The damage he has caused hopefully wont be long term but if he's the man that stays in charge for the forseeable, I'm afraid the damage will be catastrophic
From the moment he walked in, he's said all the wrong things. Moaning about the fixtures at the start of the season worried me - then bringing in his back room staff at Everton and sacking a pretty successful on at United ranks as one of his bigger mistakes.I accept that managers like to work with what they know but he's brought a bunch of feckwits with him who think training is all about running.
Who think football is all about getting to the byeline and slinging aimless balls into the box. It's awful and he hasn't addressed anything - he's blaming everything from luck to referees and not once thinking it's his tactics or the useless cnuts he's putting on the pitch.
What he came out with after the derby day debacle should have seen him sacked on the spot. "there will be plenty more days like this, get used to it" feck OFF MOYES - we're the fecking champions! But I guess he was right. I would like to know how many more
There have been a couple of positives - the signing of Mata being the obvious one and the fact that he has managed to get rid of Anderson. But the negative far outweigh any of the good that he has done, The damage he has caused hopefully wont be long term but if he's the man that stays in charge for the forseeable, I'm afraid the damage will be catastrophic
Wish they had done. Pool would be languishing where we are right now if they stuck with Woy.
I've heard plenty laughing at us on the Radio, Shaun fecking Goater was laughing at us yesterday, that stalwart of the lower league Shitty years.
Shaun Goater...
Yeah, well - that team of alcoholics were well on the way to winning the league a year before Fergie took over. So, small margins and all that. There was a reason for "Ta-ra, Fergie", a very common one in football: impatient fans demanding results without being aware of what went on behind the scenes (as fans in general never are).
If Moyes had changed us from playing good attacking football to what we are playing now he'd get even more stick than he is now. We are playing pretty similar to how Sir Alex had us playing over the last couple of seasons, just worse and more one dimensional. Had he attempted to change this and suffered bad results as a consequence of the players adapting then he would be getting more support.
Get over it. It happens.
People were laughing when we were winning too, you need thicker skin. Who cares what Shaun Goater thinks?
Why do people keep comparing Fergie and Moyes? Fergie had to build a club when he came here. from financials, infrastructure to youth team system. All Moyes is left to do is build a successful team. Thats literally it, everything else is in place already for him. You can bang on about Rome not being built in a day but in this case Rome is already built, but its just looking for a new lick of paint.
So give him a proper transfer window to do so.
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