Moyes So Far!

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Aye - but then you have people claiming Moyes has failed to "fix our CM issues", which is a quite big task, you'd imagine. Now, if we add some winger and fullback issues to the mix as well - it becomes clear that what Moyes had to do/has to do is a bit more tricky than Pep's task at Bayern. And that's without even considering the whole taking-over-for-Fergie aspect of it all.

I think that he could (and should) have done better on fixing the midfield, though it was a very difficult job. Also, personally I don't rate Fellaini at all and can't see him improving anything. Pretty sure we could have done better with those money.

It is true that this was a much more difficult task than to any manager in any top club this season.

Oh no, sorry, I wasnt talking about transfers specifically, more about the day to day management and the rut we are in. The transfer thing I do put more down to Woodward. Not sure "the club let him down" is a helpful phrase but Im reserving judgement on the transfer business until next summer. Call it giving him the benefit of the doubt. I think he deserves a season with his squad before being asked to improve it.

I don't agree with this, they were a team so both should be blamed. It isn't that Woody chose his targets, Moyes gave them to him. The two main targets, well Woody offered 27.5m for Fellaini and 15m for Baines. Should he have gone higher? Absolutelly not.

I don't know about Herrera and De Rossi whos fault it was. It could have been that we didn't had that much money and Moyes chose Fellaini. I don't see any other reason why we refused to pay 15-20m for De Rossi but were happy to pay 27.5m for Fellaini.

Baines-Coentrao think was entirely Moyes fault. He wanted Baines at all costs. We tried to get Coentrao only in the last hour - when it was sure that Baines won't come - which was too late.

Fabregas thing is the biggest mystery. How the hell we thought that we were gonna get a Barca player who didn't want to leave them (and was an Arsenal fan) when Barca didn't want to sell. For 25m. Even if they would have accepted the bid, I could have seen half of Europe matching the bid. (Feck, I would have applied for a debt and sign him, would have get 5 extra million on the other day from his resale). And I doubt that he would have chosen us before Arsenal, he has said on the past that the only team he would have played for in England were them.

Don't be daft. It's irrelevant because net spend is in - out for one season. It says nothing about player wages which is the biggest advantage oil money clubs have and it says nothing about the fact that those huge circus clubs can flog players they bought for £40 million one season later for £30 million and have that offset any spends.

If you're trying to argue that their financial statuses don't give them a huge advantage over us in any transfer dealings you might as well stop posting now.

I said that he could have done better and plenty of other managers who were hired at the same time (or later) than him did better. Some of them had more money, some not. Martinez for example, he did excellent without having much money. Or look at Conte's first year at Juve. Or Pep's first year at Bartha.
 
No champions league football will make it tougher. It means we'd have to throw insane wages at players. But I also fear the excuse that it's a World Cup year will come back.

In my opinion we'll bring nobody significant in transfer wise and Moyes will be sacked halfway through next season.
 
There must be something linking those managers' clubs. They must have a lot of something.. I can't quite think what it is though.

We're hardly strapped for cash are we? Multiple financial deals recently struck, record revenues during September 2013 and years of successful seasons.

I want Moyes to succeed, but his first transfer window was shambolic. He really needs to improve and find the right targets, I don't even care if we pay over the odds for some players (what is it to me?) so long as they're signings that improve the first XI.

Edit: I didn't read what you'd responded to, looks like I agree with you.
 
I said that he could have done better and plenty of other managers who were hired at the same time (or later) than him did better. Some of them had more money, some not. Martinez for example, he did excellent without having much money. Or look at Conte's first year at Juve. Or Pep's first year at Bartha.

I said that Everton was a good example. However City, Real, Chelsea and Bayern are crap comparisons. Your point makes sense I just thought those 4 clubs were unfair comparisons for Moyes.
 
I don't really know if the club let him down. I still don't really know what happened on the Thiago deal. I can't believe that with the amount of noise surrounding it that we weren't heavily interested. If Moyes' cautious nature scuppered it then yeah, there's a lesson to be learned there. But if he just wanted to link up with Pep again, what can you do?

Otherwise it's pretty obvious mistakes were made. I still can't figure out our approach to trying to sign both Fellaini and Baines. It was always going to take a lot to sign a team's two best players. If we genuinely wanted Fellaini - and the signs suggest he may have been second or third choice - we should have done the deal while his clause was active and then gone in for Baines, which would also have allowed Everton time to identify a replacement, which they obviously couldn't do on the last day of the window. In the case of Fabregas I suspect we allowed ourselves to be led up the garden path by a player (or his agent) looking to solidify his position at Barca.

I desperately wanted Thiago here, but when Pep got involved it was over. Same would have happened with SAF on charge.

We could have done better for Herrera, Coentrao and De Rossi though. But we were more interested on Fellaini and Baines (and we did multiple offers for them). Using Fellaini's clause would have irritated them and them wouldn't have sold us Baines, which I think was the reason for trying to get a double deal.

Agree about Fabregas, whoever was in charge of that was very naive.
 
We're hardly strapped for cash are we? Multiple financial deals recently struck, record revenues during September 2013 and years of successful seasons.

I want Moyes to succeed, but his first transfer window was shambolic. He really needs to improve and find the right targets, I don't even care if we pay over the odds for some players (what is it to me?) so long as they're signings that improve the first XI.

Edit: I didn't read what you'd responded to, looks like I agree with you.

That cash goes straight into the Glazer's pockets not into the transfer kitty.
 
We're hardly strapped for cash are we? Multiple financial deals recently struck, record revenues during September 2013 and years of successful seasons.

I want Moyes to succeed, but his first transfer window was shambolic. He really needs to improve and find the right targets, I don't even care if we pay over the odds for some players (what is it to me?) so long as they're signings that improve the first XI.

Hardly strapped but we've known or at least assumed for a long time we're not as loaded as we used to be (relatively). We can't compete on the wage front with a number of top clubs these days. Paying £27 million for a toilet brush points to a healthy financial situation (sort of) but his wages are going to be minute in comparison to what similar players at City etc will be on.
 
@ Jan Molby's article

This short term fix vs long term stability stuff is, imo, a bogus issue. Barcelona have had four managers in the last 5 years; and how many times have Madrid changed manager in the last decade? They're both doing pretty well.

Managers stay because they're successful, not the other way round. Managerial appointments should be seen as conditional on success. If a manager does well, and is happy at a great club like United, longevity will take care of itself.
 
Do I think SAF, Gill and Woodward were negotiating with players from when the season ended. No I damn well don't. SAF went off doing his own thing, as he had retired and was entitled. Do I think they should have been doing something to help Moyes. Yes I damn well do. They have badly misjudged the squad that was left for Moyes and are now sat there wringing their hands. Valencia didn't just start buggering crosses this season, Young hasn't just become shit this season, Evra and Rio haven't just gone to ratshit this season. The blessed midfield has been unproductive since Ronaldo left. Problem is SAF was looking for another Ronaldo, there isn't one. So he didn't look at other types of players, that why we always seem to sign wingers, when wingers are outmoded. They keep going on about value, just pay the price you are asked for if you really want the player, instead of doing a lot of posturing and telling everyone you tried to sign someone, but there was no bloody value.
 
Hardly strapped but we've known or at least assumed for a long time we're not as loaded as we used to be (relatively). We can't compete on the wage front with a number of top clubs these days. Paying £27 million for a toilet brush points to a healthy financial situation (sort of) but his wages are going to be minute in comparison to what similar players at City etc will be on.
We're third only to Chelsea and City domestically for wages, so I'd say that's a stretch. We also had no problem making Rooney and RvP two of the highest paid footballers around (at the time). Maybe on a European level we are lagging behind quite a few clubs but sadly that's impossible to avoid.
 
Do I think SAF, Gill and Woodward were negotiating with players from when the season ended. No I damn well don't. SAF went off doing his own thing, as he had retired and was entitled. Do I think they should have been doing something to help Moyes. Yes I damn well do.

That wouldn't have made much sense though, would it have? Ferguson using limited funds to bring in players that Moyes may not have wanted at all?
 
We're third only to Chelsea and City domestically for wages, so I'd say that's a stretch. We also had no problem making Rooney and RvP two of the highest paid footballers around (at the time). Maybe on a European level we are lagging behind quite a few clubs but sadly that's impossible to avoid.

The point is that we are third behind Chelsea and City. We can give individual players huge contracts but across the board we can't offer every other player what they can. It's not a stretch to say we offer lower wages than other top clubs around Europe and the oil clubs in England at all, it's entirely true.
 
We're third only to Chelsea and City domestically for wages, so I'd say that's a stretch. We also had no problem making Rooney and RvP two of the highest paid footballers around (at the time). Maybe on a European level we are lagging behind quite a few clubs but sadly that's impossible to avoid.

Maybe European clubs are more choosy who they hand big contracts out to, so then the really top players can command the big dollars. There are too many players here, not just at United who are very average on big money. Then of course you also pay over the odds here for English players, when most wouldn't fetch half that it they went abroad, that can really eat into your transfer budget.
 
Why should Fergie help Moyes sign player? Did he not sign a player for Everton?

Fergie told Moyes all about the squad and coaching staff. Fact is Moyes was too scared to make changes to a team that won the premier league with ease. He then tried to sign his Everton boys.
 
Maybe European clubs are more choosy who they hand big contracts out to, so then the really top players can command the big dollars. There are too many players here, not just at United who are very average on big money. Then of course you also pay over the odds here for English players, when most wouldn't fetch half that it they went abroad, that can really eat into your transfer budget.

Hopefully in the summer, we get rid of all that average.
 
That wouldn't have made much sense though, would it have? Ferguson using limited funds to bring in players that Moyes may not have wanted at all?

I don't mean bringing in his choice of players, they could have spoken to Moyes discussed the players he wanted and got the ball rolling. As someone said he started on 1st July and then a week later was off on tour and the endless round of hand shaking with sponsors.
 
I don't mean bringing in his choice of players, they could have spoken to Moyes discussed the players he wanted and got the ball rolling. As someone said he started on 1st July and then a week later was off on tour and the endless round of hand shaking with sponsors.

See the problem is I think Moyes wanted to see what the squad was like before dipping into the market, he said himself it'd be a slow transfer window.
 
I don't mean bringing in his choice of players, they could have spoken to Moyes discussed the players he wanted and got the ball rolling. As someone said he started on 1st July and then a week later was off on tour and the endless round of hand shaking with sponsors.

Two transfers stick out. Garay and Strootman. We signed a gentlements agreement with Garay about 1000 times. I'm fairly certain we would have signed both with Fergie.

Also you kidding yourself if you think he started in July.

Moyes went for too unrealistic targets like Bale and Fabregas.
 
See the problem is I think Moyes wanted to see what the squad was like before dipping into the market, he said himself it'd be a slow transfer window.

I agree there, trouble is he probably wishes he had never set eyes on some of them. There are times I think our club hold sponsors in more esteem than the team and fans. You have to keep the team up to scratch to attract sponsors and keep the fans happy. If they neglect the team much longer it could have really serious consequences.
 
Two transfers stick out. Garay and Strootman. We signed a gentlements agreement with Garay about 1000 times. I'm fairly certain we would have signed both with Fergie.

Also you kidding yourself if you think he started in July.

Moyes went for too unrealistic targets like Bale and Fabregas.

I must admit those two targets were staggering.
 
The world found out in May about Sir Alex retiring, Moyes knew for at least a month or two before that so he had plenty of time to prepare and come up with a plan. I hate the excuse he started in July. Although I am starting to think he actually did do nothing between March and July and did just go and enjoy his holiday.
 
Two transfers stick out. Garayand Strootman. We signed a gentlements agreement with Garay about 1000 times. I'm fairly certain we would have signed both with Fergie.

Also you kidding yourself if you think he started in July.

Moyes went for too unrealistic targets like Bale and Fabregas.

Like we did with Gaitan the season before.
 
Say what ye will but if we were actually seriously in for Bale there can be little doubt we have a penny or two in the old war chest. I don't care how daft people think Woodward is - even he would know Bale was never coming for anything below astronomical amounts, and that there would be zero point in trying to lowball Levy of all people.

Could be bollocks that we were in for him, of course. But it's a persistent rumour - and the infallible Mike Phelan himself seems to have, sort of, confirmed it.
 
I always find this attitude to this amazing. He started the job on July 1st. 1 week later he was in Asia on tour with his new team. On that tour he gave some youngsters a run as well as having the chance to get to know most of his players. Woodward was completely new to the job and started at the same time. Expecting Moyes to have sorted out the midfield issue in the summer period given that he was new, needed to get to know the team and spent a decent chunk of the pre season away on tour with all its different obligations is pretty rich. No manager anywhere in the world could have worked out who, when and why to change and also been able to pull off the deals to sort the midfield issue out in that timeframe and under those constraints when new to this job.

He may have offcially started July 1st. He had all the time in the world. Going on a tour does not prevent him working on additions. And the excuse for Woodward is amazing. That is an indictment of the club at the least. For me there is no running away from it. Moyes has an awful lot to answer for. But I still think he needs to be given at least one more season. I think the club will give 3 tbh unless he gets us close to being relegated.
 
This we have no money, glazer is skint is embarassing excuse
We dont have 100m to spend, but surely we can fecking afford coentrao on loan, hererra for 30+m, btw we paid 30m for fellaini, i dont recall city or chelsea spending a nett 30m this season, cmiww.

It's not like city and chelsea are spending 100m this season, they bought players at a reasonable prices, something we can match.

Thr fact that we keep on banging for baines and missed out ln a fecking loan deal (which for a club of our stature should be nothing than a daily paperwork)

And i pity woodward having to go to barcelona with only his dick in his hand... And please for the love of god, I've been saying this many times:

1. Theres no reason moyes didnt know how much he has to spend
2. The fact that he has the guts to try to get fabregas means that he is simply having lots of money to apend, or a total idiot thinking he could buy fabregas for 25m, and if we indeed offer barca 25, what a stupid thing we paid 28m for fellaini a few weeks later. Total idiotry. He value cesc at 25m and paid 28m for fellaini

3. Ed is not a footballing expert, he works on a budget i presume, a budget moyes knew how much, and if moyes is dumb enough to send woodie there with peanuts, the blame is on moyes.

4. Moyes' summer target was fabregas (unrealistic even in fm and he should have known it, even man united supporters are skeptic of us getting him), thiago (i give him this one), herrera (which if he wanted he can pay the clause and get it done with! Just not on the last hour of transfer deadline, we have shitloads of lawyer, surely 2-3 days will get it sorted out), coentrao (again i blame moyes! Madrid is loaning him, he wants to come here, only to leave it to last minute and failed the paperwork, how fecking embarassing is that? He should have known baines is not for sale and at least get the loan processe started 2-3 days ahead or howmany days it will take to sory it out.)

Inaptitude on moyes part, and he keep on trying for baines when coentrao is available on loan and probably will only be used to rotate evra.

And dont get me started on de rossi, we can easily afford him if moyes is noy deluded to think thst somehow cesc fancy playing for david fecking moyes playing for manchester United while being paid less and paying a 50percent more tax)

Moyes...
 
An interesting perspective from a City fan I found on Reddit. His response to the question was Ferguson over-performing or is Moyes under-performing...
Neither.
This is one of those times where the modern media really fails us as football fans in explaining exactly what has happened at Manchester United. I often complain that they focus too much on irrelevance and not enough on the actual business of football behind the scenes and this is an example of where it could have helped.
I'm not sure what anybody else was expecting here but Man United are right about where I thought they would be. I think they'll finish higher than this but their form is somewhat predictable.
United as a Club has completely fell apart and it is the job of David Moyes to rebuild it. It has fell apart because the Club in the modern era was built entirely to Ferguson's exacting standards and methods. Every single person in every department of the Club knew what they were doing every day and what the ultimate point was.
Clubs falling apart after the movement of a Czar isn't new. United fell apart after Busby left, Liverpool got worse the more contrived the boot room system became. It's natural.
I think United fans should remember the words of Ferguson before he left. He's a proper football man, as is David Moyes, and they both know the scale of the task Moyes has undertaken and the time it will take to bear fruit. United can either studiously water their crops over time to create a vast sustainable empire once again that will provide riches for generations or they can dump nuclear waste on their land and grow tomacco.
For me, the real test of the Glazers as owners starts today. You can talk about money and whatever but to most people it's an irrelevance, United have been ultra successful and the manager has been given what he wanted. So far so good for the Glazers. The test starts right now because we discover whether they are the seasoned and patient businessmen that the Edwards family were or just another kneejerk bunch of twats who are sacking managers on ridiculous timescales.
I think Moyes has certainly made mistakes, or rather a single mistake. I think he tried to transition too quickly from Ferguson's staff to his own staff in the first team which created unneccesary pressure on himself. This can be forgiven however as I see what he was trying to accomplish. He knew that this would be a difficult period of transition and he wants to snap it as quickly as possible rather than do it piece by piece. Managers often do lack patience in transition, AVB had the same problem at Chelsea. Funnily, Ferguson did the same mistake when he first joined too.
I see people who have called Moyes unambitious because he has said that United played well when they didn't. This is a man who had a job for life in a stable Premier League team where he was beloved and he decided to pack that in and move to the most famous Club in the world and succeed the best ever manager in the game, to take on a rebuilding job the like of which has never been done in the modern era of football. Unambitious? Do me a favour.
You see, Manchester United was a club built in Ferguson's own image and everybody took their lead from him. He was an imposing figure yet if you meet him he had this working class charm that made you want to fight for him. David Moyes is a similar figure but doesn't yet covet the same respect and loyalty from everybody at Manchester United. There's no possible way that he could, that anybody could, most of the people at United were directly employed by Ferguson or employed whilst he was the manager. In time, Moyes will have the same respect bestowed on him, that's all that it needs at the minute, just some time for him to get his feet under the table.
Some fans believe that David Moyes isn't the man for United. I challenge the idea that they even understand what United is as a Club. David Moyes is pretty much the prototypical Manchester United manager, if you had to walk away and design a man who would manage them, it is him. He's fierce, he's tactically well versed, he has a superhuman work ethic, he believes in youth promotion, he plays with wingers, he inspires loyalty and fight from everybody around him. Those who don't see this have never been to Everton away under his tenure there. Moyes managed to turn that place into a lion's den in how ferocious the atmosphere was and how the team played, and make no mistake this developed under him and will wane without him, managers have a major effect on atmospheres as any United fan will tell you (or City fan for that matter), he will do the same to Old Trafford given time.
So I suppose the problem here is that fans have underestimated the mammoth of a task that Moyes has to accomplish and pundits have over-simplified it. It will take Moyes several years to get United built in his own image and it will be better off for it rather than start some roundabout of managerial changes. And I warn United fans, I'm a fan of a Club that has had probably 30 managers in the past 30 years. Once you start down this path of swapping in and out managers, you can never come back from it.
One last thing to note. I find it interesting how many people when this was announced said things like "Moyes will need a transition time" but have now decided that he should be gone in January. Transition time is a term used to denote the time it takes to sweep away the mentality of the old regime and bring in your own mentality. Essentially, how long it takes to forget the old manager and buy into the thoughts of the new even if it conflicts with what the old manager would say. For a manager who casts the shadow of Ferguson, this will take 3 or 4 years, not 3 or 4 months. Bobby Charlton, Alex Ferguson and others at United understand this so appointed a manager who can rebuild United and have the wide shoulders it requires to bear the load of expectation from the fans and media. They think they found their right man in David Moyes and all piss taking aside, so do I. I hope that they both fight his corner in the boardroom and I'm sure they will. These people understand United as a Club, understand what makes it successful and understand what makes it special.
Moyes will be fine if the fans just shut up and let him do his job.
Now, back to pissing taking.
Worth a read.
 
Do I think SAF, Gill and Woodward were negotiating with players from when the season ended. No I damn well don't. SAF went off doing his own thing, as he had retired and was entitled. Do I think they should have been doing something to help Moyes. Yes I damn well do. They have badly misjudged the squad that was left for Moyes and are now sat there wringing their hands. Valencia didn't just start buggering crosses this season, Young hasn't just become shit this season, Evra and Rio haven't just gone to ratshit this season. The blessed midfield has been unproductive since Ronaldo left. Problem is SAF was looking for another Ronaldo, there isn't one. So he didn't look at other types of players, that why we always seem to sign wingers, when wingers are outmoded. They keep going on about value, just pay the price you are asked for if you really want the player, instead of doing a lot of posturing and telling everyone you tried to sign someone, but there was no bloody value.

Is Moyes a retard? Why did SAF have to help him with targets? Apparently our scouting system previous used by SAF selected Thiago and he turned down the option. I'm fed up of people making excuses for this guy.. He needed this... He should have had that, where's Lady Luck. He didnt take over Wolverhampton wonderers. We are a very very well run club with top quality players (champions) all we needed was tweaking with someone that could also stamp there own imprint. Instead all we have is a man trying to be SAF hype man and we all know hype men can not run the whole show. Let's just sack him and start again. I guarantee you like he did with Everton his transfer windows will cost is good starts to a season and gaping problems that never get fixed.
 
He may have offcially started July 1st. He had all the time in the world. Going on a tour does not prevent him working on additions. And the excuse for Woodward is amazing. That is an indictment of the club at the least. For me there is no running away from it. Moyes has an awful lot to answer for. But I still think he needs to be given at least one more season. I think the club will give 3 tbh unless he gets us close to being relegated.
Faints... :( :(
 
It's a fecking awful article. The bit about Smalling is uninformed and laughable. The guy has played about 4 games at centre back all season.

Sir Alex sitting in the stands has nothing to do with the awful coaching going on at Carrington either.

The guy who called Moyes's training methods "prehistoric", is the exact same guy who accused Sir Alex Ferguson's training methods of being "prehistoric"

Everything's prehistoric unless it involves ipads and moon lasers.
 
An interesting perspective from a City fan I found on Reddit. His response to the question was Ferguson over-performing or is Moyes under-performing...

Worth a read.

This strikes me as being very similar to 'articles' found here during the KRAP campaign.
 
He's really out of his depth,

If he cant at least try something, at least change our approac at games after 6 mths of shit on a stick football, what makes you think he'll come up with something new anytime soon?

I dont expect us to go on a 15 win streaks, but there is zero improvement after 6 mths.

Having a fabregas will probably add an odd goal or assist due to his being a brilliant player, but without a solid formation that works, we'll be the same pass it to fabregas and pray

Maybe he is just not good enough
 
I agree with a lot of what you said there, including the need to live with the reality of the marketplace, rather than expect to put our own valuations on players. However, there's a difference between not "solely down to Moyes," and questioning whether Moyes was/is/will be the best manager for the club.

A fair crack of the whip then?

6 months - certainly not, but people start to look for a pattern of progress and so far they aren't seeing it.

We hear that Moyes is all about fitness. Yet the players aren't faster, haven't got more stamina, aren't more resistant to injuries, aren't ready for a two game a week schedule. We've got one vague hope left - that the work will make them stronger in the second half of the season. Let's hope that.

We hear that Moyes didn't just reject the old regime's coaching team, he also rejected the transfer targets list and the scouting reports. This is Moyes' squad, he had months to look at it (as an observer then as coach) before the summer window closed but he ignored players who were moving and ended up trying to get business done in the final week. Woodward's inexperience probably didn't help but nor did things like leaving a loan deal to the final minutes before the deadline and trying to do a deal with Athletic that would have left them with an impossible job to find a (Basque) replacement only days before the window closed.

Then there's the team on the pitch. The defence looks clueless. The attack relies on luck and individual brilliance. There's no sense of a new style or a changed rhythm, that the team is struggling to learn. They're just struggling. Thankfully we've all had Januzaj to cheer, else it would have looked bleak indeed.

What I hope to see before the end of the season is change, is improvement, is growth, is the confidence coming back. Fourth place? Sadly we'll be relying on others to slip up, as well on ourselves improving. But I hope to see something that makes it look like we're progressing.

Preferably something that says if Moyes gets the keys to the warchest, he'll know exactly how to spend it.

I wouldn't disagree with much of that at all to be honest. Though there's nothing to confirm Moyes "rejected" the club's current transfer list. In fact more to suggest the club simply dragged its heels and missed out. The last minute left full back panic was certainly down to exactly this. If it was up to Moyes, I doubt his plan would have been to make a rejected bid for Baines, and then do nothing until the last hour of deadline day, in the hope he'd magically turn up in a United shirt anyway. I wonder if Moyes would have sold Baines to United as Everton manager for the price offered? Well I don't, because he wouldn't have, and if I can figure that out it's highly doubtful Moyes was the one at the United end who couldn't. Fergie could probably just shout at someone until they sorted it out. Moyes can hardly do that.

The rest of it pretty much echoes my thoughts really. If there's a bit of a jolt and rough spell before things get going, I can live with that. The problem is that we don't actually seem to be getting going anywhere. We don't have a first team. We change pretty much everything from one game to the next. There is nothing to indicate Moyes knows where he's going with the squad he has, let alone whether he's actually getting there.

6 months is I think long enough to know your players, know who can do what, know who can and can't handle the demands you expect of them physically/mentally etc., and base some kind of plan and decisions around that. I don't see any evidence of said plan or decisions, which is what is begining to get frustrating.

Yesterday for example was another centreback pairing change, another complete change in central midfield, and another completely new attacking combination, and none of them worked at all. By now I wanted to see some kind of preferred backbone and set up, and a pecking order with regards to who plays. For me nothing really happens until we at least have this as a starting point, because there is no other way to be able to expect any consistency (in the not shit consistency sense) in terms of performance.

Fergie could somehow get away with gannying around with things, but then he did spend 20+ years building himself up to a point of being able to do that, and build the entire squad in the first place based on knowing exactly what each player could do.
 
Do I think SAF, Gill and Woodward were negotiating with players from when the season ended. No I damn well don't. SAF went off doing his own thing, as he had retired and was entitled. Do I think they should have been doing something to help Moyes. Yes I damn well do. They have badly misjudged the squad that was left for Moyes and are now sat there wringing their hands. Valencia didn't just start buggering crosses this season, Young hasn't just become shit this season, Evra and Rio haven't just gone to ratshit this season. The blessed midfield has been unproductive since Ronaldo left. Problem is SAF was looking for another Ronaldo, there isn't one. So he didn't look at other types of players, that why we always seem to sign wingers, when wingers are outmoded. They keep going on about value, just pay the price you are asked for if you really want the player, instead of doing a lot of posturing and telling everyone you tried to sign someone, but there was no bloody value.

Oh please dt. Dont vilify saf just to defend moyes. This guy (saf) dedicated half of his life for united, do u honestly think he sabotages moyes??

He left him a healthy pool of youngster in rafael, ddg, jones, smailing, welbeck, kagawa

Its moyes fault he sticks smaing and valencia at rb when it's not even their natural position.

Saf didn't force him to persist with either 442 or valencia on the wing.

We have shit midfield, it was moyes who persist on 2 man midfield, eve when Carrick is injured, we struggle even with Carrick and scholes in 2 man midfield, how can he not see that or at least try to have a 3man midfield?

Stop with all this saf neglects midfield bullshit, at the end of the day he won everything with more or less the same midfield only last season, and has been winning more with the current sets of wingers.

Mayne moyes is simply not good enough
 
Oh please dt. Dont vilify saf just to defend moyes. This guy (saf) dedicated half of his life for united, do u honestly think he sabotages moyes??

He left him a healthy pool of youngster in rafael, ddg, jones, smailing, welbeck, kagawa

Its moyes fault he sticks smaing and valencia at rb when it's not even their natural position.

Saf didn't force him to persist with either 442 or valencia on the wing.

We have shit midfield, it was moyes who persist on 2 man midfield, eve when Carrick is injured, we struggle even with Carrick and scholes in 2 man midfield, how can he not see that or at least try to have a 3man midfield?

Stop with all this saf neglects midfield bullshit, at the end of the day he won everything with more or less the same midfield only last season, and has been winning more with the current sets of wingers.

Mayne moyes is simply not good enough
Are you using a keyboard made out of jelly to type?
 
Sometimes I think he has a caps lock, other times it just isn't there when required.
 
Stop picking on Mayne Moyes.
 
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