Moyes So Far!

[UnofficialDevil]

Several other new managers seems to have sorted themselves out alright in the summer. Shitty had pretty much done all their business before Peligrini even started. Why we couldn't have started on transfer negotiations before Moyes started I have no idea. Could have sat down with SAF, Gill, Moyes & Woodward at the end of May before everyone went on holiday and had a plan of action ready.

Exactly, that excuse about starting on June 1st and not having enough time is embarrassing to say the least.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Pellegrini, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Martinez, Pep all started the job at the same time as Moyes but somehow they managed to get a few players they wanted.

There must be something linking those managers' clubs. They must have a lot of something.. I can't quite think what it is though.

 

[Adebesi]

I think it would be open season on Moyes within the media if he exited next summer's window still banging the 'jam tomorrow' drum. For that reason alone I think we're going to really go for it this summer. You just hope we don't allow ourselves to get drawn into another Fabregas saga and waste the summer chasing players that want to be elsewhere.

Quite. But if that did happen then youd have to say Woodward and Moyes learned nothing from the shambles of the previous summer, which would itself justify the media shitstorm in a way. Ive been in the "2 seasons at least" camp from the start but its going to be a depressing season next year if we have another bollocks summer and start off next season in the same way as this one. If at this stage next season we havent seen much of an improvement itll be hard to justify giving him more time. Everything hinges on the summer really.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I always find this attitude to this amazing. He started the job on July 1st. 1 week later he was in Asia on tour with his new team. On that tour he gave some youngsters a run as well as having the chance to get to know most of his players. Woodward was completely new to the job and started at the same time. Expecting Moyes to have sorted out the midfield issue in the summer period given that he was new, needed to get to know the team and spent a decent chunk of the pre season away on tour with all its different obligations is pretty rich. No manager anywhere in the world could have worked out who, when and why to change and also been able to pull off the deals to sort the midfield issue out in that timeframe and under those constraints when new to this job.

Well said, why could you expect the midfield to be sorted out in that short space of time, when SAF never did it over a number of years.

 

[Carl]

There's no good reason to believe that. He's been inept so far and the most probable prognosis is that he will continue to be so. Why compound the error of a bad appointment by sticking with it? There are plenty of good managers out there, and, in practice, clubs can't hold on to managers who want to leave because it's bad for morale. Provided we know what we want, and are prepared to spend big, we can get a good replacement.

Faith.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

There must be something linking those managers' clubs. They must have a lot of something.. I can't quite think what it is though.

I'd imagine that the clubs those managers went to will have known who the new manager wanted and set the wheels in motion. Our board just sat on their hands and did nothing.

 

[Adebesi]

It really is quite meaningless to compare other new managers at even big European clubs to the man who had to step into SAF's boots. It is a unique situation.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

I'd imagine that the clubs those managers went to will have known who the new manager wanted and set the wheels in motion. Our board just sat on their hands and did nothing.

That too most probably but its useless comparing us with oil clubs or otherwise mega rich clubs. We can't just do a Madrid and spunk our entire nation's economy on a few players, nor can we reasonably be expected to hoover up all the league's talent because we're the only big club in there. Daft comparisons with the exception of Everton.

 

[Revan]

There must be something linking those managers' clubs. They must have a lot of something.. I can't quite think what it is though.

30m net spend? Some of them spend less than Moyes, right.

 

[Bojan11]

He started on 1st July again.

What nonsense. You think Moyes went without May or June not speaking to Woodward or looking at our squad. Really? Pellegrinni made all his signings in June yet started in July. Bayern signed Gotze yet Pep started later.

The guy dithered over Thiago in June. He was very indecisive in the transfer window for Everton.

 

[Brophs]

Pellegrini, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Martinez, Pep all started the job at the same time as Moyes but somehow they managed to get a few players they wanted.

I'm not so sure about that. Mourinho quite plainly wanted a centre half, a midfielder and a striker. He got none. Instead he got Schurrle who was a club signing that had been in place for a while and Willian who is more of a wide attacker. Martinez got in some players, yeah, but it's easier to improve the side when you're Everton than it is when you're us. Of all of their signings only McCarthy could arguably be someone we should have looked at. So it's apples and oranges really. City and Madrid also seem to operate with directors of football, or similar, so a lot of those signings were made by the club, unlike Moyes who is completely autonomous. As for Pep, they brought in Thiago, who he has a strong relationship with, seemingly after we chased him for much of the summer. Beyond that they brought in Gotze, a deal that was done well before Pep's arrival.

Yeah, our business last summer wasn't the best by any means but I don't think it's as simple as you're making out.

 

[Revan]

It really is quite meaningless to compare other new managers at even big European clubs to the man who had to step into SAF's boots. It is a unique situation.

It is quite meaningless comparing them because? Especially if that wasn't comparing them to Moyes, but their record on transfer market to Moyes record on transfer market, which I think is perfectly comparable.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

30m net spend? Some of them spend less than Moyes, right.

Net spend is irrelevant, it's player wages that ruin the day. That and the fact that those clubs can recycle huge buys from previous seasons to lower their magical net spend figure.

 

[Ish]

Jan Molby's take on things:
(Sorry for formatting)
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs...e-united-season-past-sell-date-133117007.html


Moyes has discovered ‘Fergie’s United’ are a season past their sell-by date


As manager of Manchester United, David Moyes is always going to take the blame when results go bad. That is just a fact of life that he must have known when he accepted the job to succeed Sir Alex Ferguson.
He has inherited a squad that somehow won the Premier League last year, but a lot of his critics can't look beyond that.
He has a squad that is not really good enough. One that is creaking with the big players not having much left in the tank to give to the cause.

They didn't buy in the summer. I don't know who you blame for that? Do you blame the manager, chief executive or the board for failing to make funds available for new recruits?
They have got big problems, and now is the time for the people who appointed Moyes to keep calm.
If they wanted a short-term fix, they would have given the job to Jose Mourinho.

The fact they went for Moyes on a six-year contract suggests to me they know there is some work to be done on the squad, and they are going to keep calm for as long as they can. They must not panic.
I think Moyes will be given this season and next season. A club of Manchester United's stature can afford not to win anything this season. I also think they can afford not to be in the Champions League for a season.
It will be a blow, but they will get over it.

It is all about what they do this summer, not January. The rebuilding job starts in the summer.
You must also allow some of the players to play their way out of Old Trafford which Moyes seems to be doing.
You give them this season, take what comes your way and make sure the players take their fair share of blame for failing this season. You must also start to think about moving some of those failures on.

Your biggest voices in the dressing room have to be the best players on the pitch. I don't think that is the case at Old Trafford any longer. There are people there living on past glories who can't do their own job any more.
Rio Ferdinand fits into that category as he prepares to retire at the end of the season. There is a reason why he is thinking about retiring. He has nothing left to lend to people around him any more. Patrice Evra is another player who essentially can no longer cope with the demands of the Premier League. Certainly not at United. It is a blow not to win anything, but United have to make sure that one season without a trophy doesn't become two then three, four...
All their efforts now have to be on getting their business done properly in the summer.
Sometimes the last people to realise are the club itself. United are still a fantastic club, but what they have is a very mediocre team.

Moyes didn't want to make too many rash decisions when he came into the job. How could he when the side won the Premier League by some margin last season? He had to give them a chance, but it has not worked out. There were a lot of players turning out in the 2-1 FA Cup defeat to Swansea yesterday who were not signed by Moyes. They are obviously not good enough. Sir Alex Ferguson was better at motivating this group of players than Moyes, but that might change when the new manager gets in his own group of players. Players are brutal. Managers come and go, but players will use excuses when there are none to offer. They will happily hide behind them.

The Fulham manager René Meulensteen was a big loss to them on the backroom staff as he was apparently a superb coach, but there can be no excuses by players claiming they miss Ferguson or his preferred coaches.
It is not ideal for Moyes, but he is at least allowing these players to drown in their own lack of ability. That will make it easier to justify moving them on. Times have also changed. United is no longer a club players will automatically join. They don't pay the biggest wages going.

Mario Mandzukic will be available to leave Bayern Munich in the summer. I think he would choose Arsenal over United. Three years ago that would have been unthinkable.
United need to go back to the late 1980s. At that time, they felt like Fergie was the right man. They have to feel that Moyes is the right man now.

I don't think it is a good season if United beat Sunderland in the semi-finals and win the League Cup. For United to have a good season, they have to be in the top four.
Every time United come across one of the better teams in the league, they don't look capable of beating them.
Winning the League Cup wouldn't make it a good season, but it would paper over some cracks.

Nine times out of ten, United will lose to Manchester City. If they meet them at Wembley in the League Cup final, City will be hot favourites to win that match.
All Moyes can do is get to the summer making sure his rebuilding work is already well under way.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Sensible article. Apart from the City bit. 9/10? Bit cheeky.

 

[Revan]

I'm not so sure about that. Mourinho quite plainly wanted a centre half, a midfielder and a striker. He got none. Instead he got Schurrle who was a club signing that had been in place for a while and Willian who is more of a wide attacker. Martinez got in some players, yeah, but it's easier to improve the side when you're Everton than it is when you're us. Of all of their signings only McCarthy could arguably be someone we should have looked at. So it's apples and oranges really. City and Madrid also seem to operate with directors of football, or similar, so a lot of those signings were made by the club, unlike Moyes who is completely autonomous. As for Pep, they brought in Thiago, who he has a strong relationship with, seemingly after we chased him for much of the summer. Beyond that they brought in Gotze, a deal that was done well before Pep's arrival.

Yeah, our business last summer wasn't the best by any means but I don't think it's as simple as you're making out.

It isn't simple as all mate, especially considering that we had two rookies in most important positions. But on the other side, I don't get where does it come this 'the club let him down'. Why it is perfectly true that Woody was terrible, on the other side Moyes stuborness to get his two best ex-players fecked us our transfer window as much if not even worse. We offered 27.5m for Fellaini and 15m for Baines. Does anyone think that we couldn't have done better with those money? I don't even want to start talking about Fabregas. How the hell did they thought that we'll get a player which Barca didn't want or need to sell - only a day after they lost another midfielder - he didn't want to leave and was a Gunner. Especially how we were gonna get him for 25m. If that was the case, every club on Europe who had 25m on bank account would have tried to do so, but they somehow thought that i was achievable and without any competition.

 

[Stack]

Several other new managers seems to have sorted themselves out alright in the summer. Shitty had pretty much done all their business before Peligrini even started. Why we couldn't have started on transfer negotiations before Moyes started I have no idea. Could have sat down with SAF, Gill, Moyes & Woodward at the end of May before everyone went on holiday and had a plan of action ready.

your kidding right????

 

[UnofficialDevil]

What a load of rubbish. In that article.

 

[Stack]

He started on 1st July again.

What nonsense. You think Moyes went without May or June not speaking to Woodward or looking at our squad. Really? Pellegrinni made all his signings in June yet started in July. Bayern signed Gotze yet Pep started later.

The guy dithered over Thiago in June. He was very indecisive in the transfer window for Everton.

good grief, you really are naive. BTW, Thiago himself stated we never even approached him. You are basing your opinion on myth.

 

[Adebesi]

It is quite meaningless comparing them because? Especially if that wasn't comparing them to Moyes, but their record on transfer market to Moyes record on transfer market, which I think is perfectly comparable.

Because when you follow a living legend, the most successful manager ever seen in this country, an iconic figure and manager of 27 years, that creates its own pressure. It is rather different to following Mancini.

 

[Revan]

Net spend is irrelevant, it's player wages that ruin the day. That and the fact that those clubs can recycle huge buys from previous seasons to lower their magical net spend figure.

It is irrelevant only because it suits your argument.

 

[Revan]

Because when you follow a living legend, the most successful manager ever seen in this country, an iconic figure and manager of 27 years, that creates its own pressure. It is rather different to following Mancini.

That is true, but how does this change anything on transfer market? It is more difficult following SAF than anyone else - mainly because of the pressure - but can this be an excuse for our horror transfer windod?

 

[Ryan's Beard]

It is irrelevant only because it suits your argument.

Don't be daft. It's irrelevant because net spend is in - out for one season. It says nothing about player wages which is the biggest advantage oil money clubs have and it says nothing about the fact that those huge circus clubs can flog players they bought for £40 million one season later for £30 million and have that offset any spends.

If you're trying to argue that their financial statuses don't give them a huge advantage over us in any transfer dealings you might as well stop posting now.

 

[Adebesi]

That is true, but how does this change anything on transfer market? It is more difficult following SAF than anyone else - mainly because of the pressure - but can this be an excuse for our horror transfer windod?

Oh no, sorry, I wasnt talking about transfers specifically, more about the day to day management and the rut we are in. The transfer thing I do put more down to Woodward. Not sure "the club let him down" is a helpful phrase but Im reserving judgement on the transfer business until next summer. Call it giving him the benefit of the doubt. I think he deserves a season with his squad before being asked to improve it.

 

[Bojan11]

good grief, you really are naive. BTW, Thiago himself stated we never even approached him. You are basing your opinion on myth.

And his father said the exact opposite. Yes Thiago is going to come out at a new club and say I almost joined Man Utd.

Naive? I find that would be you if you think Moyes didn't start work in May or June.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Pellegrini, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Martinez, Pep all started the job at the same time as Moyes but somehow they managed to get a few players they wanted.

Aye - but then you have people claiming Moyes has failed to "fix our CM issues", which is a quite big task, you'd imagine. Now, if we add some winger and fullback issues to the mix as well - it becomes clear that what Moyes had to do/has to do is a bit more tricky than Pep's task at Bayern. And that's without even considering the whole taking-over-for-Fergie aspect of it all.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Moyes fecked up last summer as far as transfers go, how can we even be debating this?

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

Several other new managers seems to have sorted themselves out alright in the summer. Shitty had pretty much done all their business before Peligrini even started. Why we couldn't have started on transfer negotiations before Moyes started I have no idea. Could have sat down with SAF, Gill, Moyes & Woodward at the end of May before everyone went on holiday and had a plan of action ready.

We don't have a director of football. City's manager had little input into who was being bought. One of the cornerstones of the Fergie philosophy is that a manager has complete control over transfers.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with having a DOF. It seems modern and sensible. Martin Edwards used to have final say on transfers and it didn't do Fergie much harm.

The other problem we have is that we don't play the agent game and we don't pay top wages. Buying players is more complicated for United than it is for other top clubs as we have our own philosophy, the Fergie philosophy. Add to that Moyes's famed indecisiveness in the market and us not qualifying for the Champions League and I do worry how effective we will be in the summer window.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Moyes fecked up last summer as far as transfers go, how can we even be debating this?

Yeah, pretty much.

And without Champions League football to offer it's gonna be worse this coming summer. We'll only be able to attract mercenaries, who we can't afford of course. The entire thing is a fecking shambles.

 

[Sassy Colin]

your kidding right????

No, why would you say that? Several other posters have agree with me so far.

 

[Bojan11]

Moyes fecked up last summer as far as transfers go, how can we even be debating this?

Exactly. The excuse he started in July is being rolled out again. Everton fans nicknamed him dithering Dave.

How many times have we faced Everton over the years? It's not like foreign manager came in. Moyes would have had a good idea of our weaknesses from his time facing us.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

Moyes fecked up last summer as far as transfers go, how can we even be debating this?

It wasn't just him that fecked up though, was it? That's the point. We still had our old woody acting like a retard and putting stupid bids in, regardless of how shite Moyes was at picking targets.

 

[Brophs]

It isn't simple as all mate, especially considering that we had two rookies in most important positions. But on the other side, I don't get where does it come this 'the club let him down'. Why it is perfectly true that Woody was terrible, on the other side Moyes stuborness to get his two best ex-players fecked us our transfer window as much if not even worse. We offered 27.5m for Fellaini and 15m for Baines. Does anyone think that we couldn't have done better with those money? I don't even want to start talking about Fabregas. How the hell did they thought that we'll get a player which Barca didn't want or need to sell - only a day after they lost another midfielder - he didn't want to leave and was a Gunner. Especially how we were gonna get him for 25m. If that was the case, every club on Europe who had 25m on bank account would have tried to do so, but they somehow thought that i was achievable and without any competition.

I don't really know if the club let him down. I still don't really know what happened on the Thiago deal. I can't believe that with the amount of noise surrounding it that we weren't heavily interested. If Moyes' cautious nature scuppered it then yeah, there's a lesson to be learned there. But if he just wanted to link up with Pep again, what can you do?

Otherwise it's pretty obvious mistakes were made. I still can't figure out our approach to trying to sign both Fellaini and Baines. It was always going to take a lot to sign a team's two best players. If we genuinely wanted Fellaini - and the signs suggest he may have been second or third choice - we should have done the deal while his clause was active and then gone in for Baines, which would also have allowed Everton time to identify a replacement, which they obviously couldn't do on the last day of the window. In the case of Fabregas I suspect we allowed ourselves to be led up the garden path by a player (or his agent) looking to solidify his position at Barca.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

The fact Moyes thinks we didn't bid for De Rossi would lead me to believe he wasn't fully in the loop with our transfer dealings, which is bizarre.

 

[pocco]

What a load of rubbish. In that article.

Didn't think you'd like it. Basically everyone in football that has spoken on our situatipn echoes his sentiments. Journalists fit in with your idea of the situation. I know whose opinion I value higher.

 

[Ryan's Beard]

The fact Moyes thinks we didn't bid for De Rossi would lead me to believe he wasn't fully in the loop with our transfer dealings, which is bizarre.

Unless of course he was fully in the loop and he's trying to make out like he didn't really have chance to integrate himself into our dealings when he joined the club so that first shambolic window is less of his fault than it would seem. I find it impossible to believe he wasn't fully aware of who we were going after to be honest.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Moyes fecked up last summer as far as transfers go, how can we even be debating this?

He did, or Woody did, or they both did - as a club we clearly pretty much fecked up, yes. It was one window, though. Not a good start, but not the death of all hope. Unless we're skint there will be other opportunities. The main thing is that the man knows who to go for. If he does, and the Glazers are prepared to make an investment, we might come out of the next couple of windows looking right handsome.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Anyway, this coming summer is the biggest transfer window in United's modern history. Moyes has to bring in quality, if he fails to do so we'll have another similar season and he'll be gone by this time next year.

 

[Brophs]

The fact Moyes thinks we didn't bid for De Rossi would lead me to believe he wasn't fully in the loop with our transfer dealings, which is bizarre.

I think the answer is quite a bit more simple than that. Right now he's batting away questions from the media and, at times, his phrasing has been a bit clumsy (see also "they tell me he's a good player" etc.). If he wasn't under such pressure he wouldn't be subject to such scrutiny. In the case of De Rossi, what I suspect happened, due to the fluid nature of transfer negotiations, is that Woodward (or whoever) enquired about him with Roma and there was probably a bit of back and forth as regards a fee. Whether it was ever a formal offer or whether it was more in the realm of broadly discussing a deal without there being any commitment on either side is probably where it falls into the grey area, rather than Moyes being kept out of the loop.

 

[Bojan11]

Anyway, this coming summer is the biggest transfer window in United's modern history. Moyes has to bring in quality, if he fails to do so we'll have another similar season and he'll be gone by this time next year.

No champions league football will make it tougher. It means we'd have to throw insane wages at players. But I also fear the excuse that it's a World Cup year will come back.