Moyes So Far!

[Carl]

We've not played as badly as a lot of you make out.

I have to disagree. Some of our football this season has been absolutely awful. Some of the worst I've seen from United in my time with the Newcastle game (if memory serves) probably being the worst.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I thought yesterday was pretty bad... I don't recall ever been in Old Trafford where people were getting audibly frustrated by United actually retaining possession (because we were doing feck all with it).

 

[Gambit]

I have to disagree. Some of our football this season has been absolutely awful. Some of the worst I've seen from United in my time with the Newcastle game (if memory serves) probably being the worst.

We've had some equally bad performances over the last few years. The difference this year being we've not had the goals in us.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think that he didn't celebrate the goal because he was well aware that our defence flopped again and conceded and that it might happen again, he was right. As I've said already, some backing from Ferguson or Glazers that would be public should come in now.

Fergie chose him, he should come out and give him support in public.

 

[Adebesi]

Fergie, as ever tried to bring in young players - the question is how good they are or will be. Zaha clearly isnt impressing in training, Smalling has been awful, Jones seems not to know where his best position is and Powell is a total unknown quantity. Chicarito is good at what he does but we aren't lacking up front.

To me this highlights the problems Fergie faced - lack of money. Its one thing buying young talent with an eye on the future. Its another to buy young players and rely on them becoming really top players.

As it stands we need established quality to replace ageing players, or those who simply arent good enough. Other than RVP the only money spent has been on young players - because they have years to off-set against big fees, or potential sell on value. If that it how the club is going to be run then it will fall miles behind the top clubs.

Modern football has changed and Moyes needs to be given the backing that the other managers at other top clubs are given. The squad is poor and needs to be improved. If that means spending large sums of money then that's what needs to be done, or the club will be lucky to finish top 4.

If they dont do that consistently then the whole financial house of cards could come tumbling down. Some might consider that a daft thing to say - but the gap between United and the top sides is growing, and if we dont finsh top 4 this year, attracting the players to close that gap will be very difficult. Liverpool's plight shows what can happen if you slip - once out its difficult to get back in.

The lack of money thing seems to be a fairly fundamental, top down strategic decision that was taken so I dont know how much that will change, we have no way of knowing how the Glazers will respond to this situation. But I am not expecting the kind of U turn you are calling for, on the basis that I assume part of the reason Moyes was selected was precisely because he was judged to be capable of, and willing to, work under exactly these restrictions.

I agree with the house of cards risk you identify, not as something I expect to see happening but as a risk I am worried about (I started a thread specifically about it https://www.redcafe.net/threads/vicious-circle-risk.380692/#post-14637897). I am trusting Moyes will have a better summer and show a marked improvement next season and avert that crisis. Other than Rooney I am not expecting an exodus and hopefully one season outside the CL will not hinder our ability to attract players. As was implied by the last couple of posts, we make a habit of bringing in youth who will have an eye on the longer term, not necessarily immediate CL football anyway, so it shouldnt affect us too much as long as we stick with our strategy. However, assuming we do finish outside the top 4, it will make it harder to change that strategy as you have called for. So again, it all comes back to how quickly Moyes can find his feet and start getting the best out of young and relatively inexperienced players in a lot of cases (as well as replacing older players - but in all likelihood with predominantly more young players with potential rather than off-the-shelf stars.

 

[Godfather]

We've had some equally bad performances over the last few years. The difference this year being we've not had the goals in us.

We've never been that consistently shit though. We had our shit matches no doubt. But this season we are on a new level.

 

[Amir]

Going out of the cup yesterday was no crisis at all.

True. But it completely killed the momentum we had until a few days ago. We won't get top 4 unless something dramatic changes.

 

[Kostur]

Fergie chose him, he should come out and give him support in public.

Aye, my points exactly, same would've been good from our owners if they seemed to give a feck, which they don't. Not in the 'Glazers out' but I think that when it was Fergie here and he always spoke good of them, we've had the results and so on, I hardly gave a feck about them. Now when it isn't all that pretty, some backing for a man in need of help would've been fantastic, or well, it's more or less their fecking job to do so now.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Never mind Ferguson or the Glazers publicly backing him, the players should be declaring their embarrassment at letting him down. Again.

It's ridiculous that Fletcher, speaking after today's game, is the only player I've heard to come out and say that they've let the manager down this season. Absolutely ridiculous.

It usually is either Carrick or Fletcher who come out when the going gets tough. As Carrick didn't play it was left to poor Fletch and he looks devastated. I hope he wasn't the only one who was. Fabio should have come out and apologised for dropping his team in the shit.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Indeed behind the scenes is important - ultimately that is what saved Ferguson all those years ago.

In terms of how Moyes was appointed, you'd be misguided if you think SAF and Charlton had a material influence in bringing Moyes here. I imagine the way it worked was Charlton and SAF presented Moyes as an option and the other directors and the Glazers had enough faith in them to agree.

Players can be temperamental if they don't like his training methods, that is all I can think of. I don't think it is a personal thing, he seems a nice enough guy. These players were in a comfort zone and felt safe with SAF there. Now there is a new manager who maybe doesn't fancy some of them and their performances are suffering for it. That is the way of the world and they will need to get over themselves. The situation with Jose and Juan Mata is a good example of that.

 

[SirAF]

True. But it completely killed the momentum we had until a few days ago. We won't get top 4 unless something dramatic changes.

I agree about that, but I still think we'll make 4th. Not making it is simply just not an option!

 

[Adebesi]

you have to take into account that every single player who performed for United last season, has been missing for significant time with injury.

I generally hate attributing much to injuries, especially as we always, without fail, every season have an injury crisis of some sort, which is used to justify some loss or other, or at least to elevate a decent run to something even more impressive. However, you cant deny last season having Carrick and RVP fit throughout the season was crucial. They say the best managers are invariably also the luckiest managers. Maybe there is an element of that with SAF: how many times did we all rejoice at Carrick's omnipresence, and fret about how things would go to shit if he ever got injured? It never transpired with SAF, and then happened almost immediately with Moyes. RVP was an accident waiting to happen to be honest, and Carrick was due something to happen.

Anyway, I hope Moyes' luck changes.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

You're okay with the shitty football then?

The shitty football could be from lack of investment. There hasn't been great football for a while, but we got the results, probably due to SAF. Moyes needed big investment to refresh this side and get rid of the players who are now being found out. The CEO let him down. He was trying to be a smartass and got made a fool of.

 

[Dracula]

I would say the number 1 problem is the Glazers looking for value instead of buying top class players we obviously need, and have needed for some time now to strengthen the midfield. Now the defence is obviously also in need of strengthening as well. If we fail to make the champions league I could see Rooney and Van Persie being not to happy. Then we would likely need some strengthening up front too.

Indeed. If only we had some prior warning about the glazers sports team operating style. If only there was another sports team they owned that they gutted and allowed to go from champions to compete mediocrity as long as they get regular merchandise and corporate sponsors.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The thing is Fergie knew how to play that style of football, he was the best at it. At the moment it's like a painter and decorator trying to copy Leonardo da Vinci.

He has to be his own man and stop trying to be a Fergie clone. Maybe he is taking too much advise from the old gaffer.

 

[smallred]

Moyes so far? one word, appaling.

with 3 or 4 minutes to go yesterday, i was clear we were f8cked. the middle had no shape and it was kagawa and Cleverly in there, nobody was wide left. i looked down to the dugout and Carrick was ready to come on, (tracksuit bottoms off). said to myself great, he can help us regain our shape and close out the game. theres a throw in deep in our half and its the ideal time to make the sub...what does Moyes do? dither and dither as he has done all season and low and behold, they score about 30 seconds later. what a f*cking joke..the entire ground could feel a goal coming and he did nothing about it.

being down to 10 is no excuse, you can still make yourself solid and close out the game.

Southampton, Cardiff and Swansea now have got last minute goals against us - shows a lack of belief by the players.

 

[Carl]

We've had some equally bad performances over the last few years. The difference this year being we've not had the goals in us.

....and the bad performances have been more frequent.

 

[Adebesi]

Aye, my points exactly, same would've been good from our owners if they seemed to give a feck, which they don't. Not in the 'Glazers out' but I think that when it was Fergie here and he always spoke good of them, we've had the results and so on, I hardly gave a feck about them. Now when it isn't all that pretty, some backing for a man in need of help would've been fantastic, or well, it's more or less their fecking job to do so now.

They might be mindful of the fact that when an owner comes out and backs you publicly, it only usually fans the media speculation. Nobody takes these words of support at face value. That is the Glazers. As for SAF, I think he is in a very awkward position. I can see what you are saying, words of support might help. But then again it might also trigger a conversation about whether it is evidence he is still involved on the football side. To be honest I think he is damned if he does (speak out) and damned if he doesnt. This is why I never thought it was a good idea to keep him around in the first place. He should be playing golf or catching up with his needlework.

 

[Amir]

I agree about that, but I still think we'll make 4th. Not making it is simply just not an option!

Well, 20 games into the season, we're simply not there. Obviously things can change, but it hasn't so far and I see little reason to think it would change.

 

[hp88]

The shitty football could be from lack of investment. There hasn't been great football for a while, but we got the results, probably due to SAF. Moyes needed big investment to refresh this side and get rid of the players who are now being found out. The CEO let him down. He was trying to be a smartass and got made a fool of.

Woody and Moyes will have another chance to improve the squad in summer, the funds are there we just need to change our approach.

 

[Gambit]

We've never been that consistently shit though. We had our shit matches no doubt. But this season we are on a new level.

But when we've played brilliantly this season, we've still looked toothless. The lack of Rooney and RVP has been incredible. Last year we'd play these guys the ball earlier and they basically made up for our lack of creative midfielder so we we're able to play through the middle or knock out wide and be a threat. RVP especially. This year it's been a case of knock it out wide as we have no option to take it into the middle. We end up just having a lot of possession outside the box passing it around looking for a way in then we get battered on the counter. It's something we all recognised years ago. Now it's coming home to roost.

What has annoyed me is watching our strikers make runs in the middle and not a single attempt of a pass to them has been made. The only player I've seen do it this year from the middle is Giggs. Kagawa has tried it a few times but most of them end up being like Andersons passes. Fletcher has a few times and to good effect.

Also we'd been on a good run of form. the last 2 matches have been dire. We looked like we had a makeshift central midfield starting to happen with Jones and Cleverley and Rooney dropping back to make the numbers in the middle. Then Jones and now Rooney got injured. Carrick is only just returning from injury and looks off the pace. As great as it has been having Fletcher back. He is a shadow of the former player he was ( it might improve but will take time) and the fact we have to pick him in the centre speaks volumes.

Moyes said at the start of the season he's looking to bring in players that will go straight into the first team. I agree, we have to many players now making up numbers for me. Hell I've been Anderson's biggest defender but I want him gone now. Unfortunately the players we need won't be coming this winter. I'd like to see him sell some players and bring some of those youths out on loan back. May as well. We've nothing to lose at this point.

What I have seen though is, when we've played good is a zip and speed to our play I've not seen for a long time. Now that does interest me.

 

[Escobar]

IMHO, Fergie had the wrong criterias when he choose the next manager. Could cost us dearly.

Moyes has been poor, there is no way around it

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I can't be bothered with typing out long arguments, but people need to wait at least until the season is over - if we can get in the top 4 then disaster (for this season) is averted. Going out of the cup yesterday was no crisis at all.

Going out of the cup might be a blessing, our squad is stretched so we don't need more games. Next summer will show us what the Glazers have in mind regarding signings and if they are just happy to put season ticket prices up and get their money off the fans through merchandise. They are fools if they don't invest big in this club and will regret it in the long run.

 

[noodlehair]

I generally hate attributing much to injuries, especially as we always, without fail, every season have an injury crisis of some sort, which is used to justify some loss or other, or at least to elevate a decent run to something even more impressive. However, you cant deny last season having Carrick and RVP fit throughout the season was crucial. They say the best managers are invariably also the luckiest managers. Maybe there is an element of that with SAF: how many times did we all rejoice at Carrick's omnipresence, and fret about how things would go to shit if he ever got injured? It never transpired with SAF, and then happened almost immediately with Moyes. RVP was an accident waiting to happen to be honest, and Carrick was due something to happen.

Anyway, I hope Moyes' luck changes.

I think it's dumb to deny luck is a factor in football. Obviously Ferguson was a lot more than lucky, but last season he had an awful lot of things go for him that haven't happened this. I mean we managed to win the league despite literally not playing consistently well in a single game. The signs were there for everyone to see and I don't think we'd be contending for the league this season even with him as manager.

When Fergie's had to contend with things like having a midfield without Michael Carrick, we've done things like go out of the Champions League to FC Basle, or lose at home to teams like Leeds United.

I also don't like to think what would have happened a couple of years ago if Scholes hadn't bailed him out mid season. Possibly something quite similar to this.

It's easy to just blame Moyes for the current mess, but he inherited a bit of a mess, and with the club's head buried in the sand due to Fergie's ability to still drag results out of it. Our approach to trying to sign players has been delusionally arrogant for a few years. Our whole attitude is summed up by Rio's "we only have to play at 80% to win games" claim. In a way a season of abject shiteness might finally wake a few people up to reality.

 

[Gambit]

....and the bad performances have been more frequent.

Not really there was a lot of bad performances last year when we were truly dire and the difference was RVP. This year we've been dire with a hell of a lot of injuries.

 

[noodlehair]

Moyes so far? one word, appaling.

with 3 or 4 minutes to go yesterday, i was clear we were f8cked. the middle had no shape and it was kagawa and Cleverly in there, nobody was wide left. i looked down to the dugout and Carrick was ready to come on, (tracksuit bottoms off). said to myself great, he can help us regain our shape and close out the game. theres a throw in deep in our half and its the ideal time to make the sub...what does Moyes do? dither and dither as he has done all season and low and behold, they score about 30 seconds later. what a f*cking joke..the entire ground could feel a goal coming and he did nothing about it.

being down to 10 is no excuse, you can still make yourself solid and close out the game.

Southampton, Cardiff and Swansea now have got last minute goals against us - shows a lack of belief by the players.

That was quite bizarre.

For a start, Fletcher had looked completely fecked for the best part of 30 minutes by that point. Doing nothing was really poor.

 

[Gambit]

I think it's dumb to deny luck is a factor in football. Obviously Ferguson was a lot more than lucky, but last season he had an awful lot of things go for him that haven't happened this. I mean we managed to win the league despite literally not playing consistently well in a single game. The signs were there for everyone to see and I don't think we'd be contending for the league this season even with him as manager.

When Fergie's had to contend with things like having a midfield without Michael Carrick, we've done things like go out of the Champions League to FC Basle, or lose at home to teams like Leeds United.

I also don't like to think what would have happened a couple of years ago if Scholes hadn't bailed him out mid season. Possibly something quite similar to this.

It's easy to just blame Moyes for the current mess, but he inherited a bit of a mess, and with the club's head buried in the sand due to Fergie's ability to still drag results out of it. Our approach to trying to sign players has been delusionally arrogant for a few years. Our whole attitude is summed up by Rio's "we only have to play at 80% to win games" claim. In a way a season of abject shiteness might finally wake a few people up to reality.

Exactly, everything that's happening isn't news to me. Everyone seems to think last year we played amazing football. We were truly awful at times.

 

[Carl]

Not really there was a lot of bad performances last year when we were truly dire and the difference was RVP. This year we've been dire with a hell of a lot of injuries.

We haven't been particularly pleasing to watch for quite a few years now but I don't know how you can argue against us being worse this season. Yes we have missed van Persie but performances on the whole have been worse.

That said, I still think Moyes will get it right in time. It's just hard to look at the big picture in the aftermath of games when we keep getting beat.

 

[Adebesi]

I think if SAF was in charge we would be doing better, all other things being equal. This is not to say sack Moyes, and certainly not to say bring back SAF. This club has always had a bit of a problem moving on, it seems, first from Scholes (and Giggs) (and arguably in a different way from Keane) and now from SAF. Sometimes you have to rip the plaster off, what we are seeing now on the field is the footballing incarnation of that flash of pain and red skin you get from that. No point in pulling half of it off and then deciding it is too painful and accepting the plaster as a permanent part of your body. Or something. [Backs away from shite analogy]

The point is, I think SAF had a knack for getting the best out of his players. I reckon we would have risen above our injury woes with SAF, just as we usually did, even if we did struggle still relative to our usual standards. We wouldnt have sunk this low. But Moyes will come good. He doesnt have that same ability SAF had but that ability is very rare, and may yet develop in Moyes once he has found his feet.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Exactly, everything that's happening isn't news to me. Everyone seems to think last year we played amazing football. We were truly awful at times.

True the football was woeful at times, the thing that is missing is the fight. All those come from behind wins. I still think winning the league masked a multitude of sins.

 

[Siorac]

But when we've played brilliantly this season, we've still looked toothless. The lack of Rooney and RVP has been incredible. Last year we'd play these guys the ball earlier and they basically made up for our lack of creative midfielder so we we're able to play through the middle or knock out wide and be a threat. RVP especially. This year it's been a case of knock it out wide as we have no option to take it into the middle. We end up just having a lot of possession outside the box passing it around looking for a way in then we get battered on the counter. It's something we all recognised years ago. Now it's coming home to roost.

Yeah, we played brilliantly, erm, once. At Leverkusen. And maybe at OT against them, at a stretch.

I wish people stopped citing the "lack of Rooney and RVP". Van Persie started 10 league games, Rooney started 16, they started 7 together. We were shite in many many games in which one or both played. It's an excuse, plain and simple. Other clubs had injuries too. We have a fecking huge squad precisely because of that.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think if SAF was in charge we would be doing better, all other things being equal. This is not to say sack Moyes, and certainly not to say bring back SAF. This club has always had a bit of a problem moving on, it seems, first from Scholes (and Giggs) (and arguably in a different way from Keane) and now from SAF. Sometimes you have to rip the plaster off, what we are seeing now on the field is the footballing incarnation of that flash of pain and red skin you get from that. No point in pulling half of it off and then deciding it is too painful and accepting the plaster as a permanent part of your body. Or something. [Backs away from shite analogy]

The point is, I think SAF had a knack for getting the best out of his players. I reckon we would have risen above our injury woes with SAF, just as we usually did, even if we did struggle still relative to our usual standards. We wouldnt have sunk this low. But Moyes will come good. He doesnt have that same ability SAF had but that ability is very rare, and may yet develop in Moyes once he has found his feet.

The results might be better, but everyone would still be saying the football is shit and why didn't we buy a midfielder.

 

[Getsme]

He has to be his own man and stop trying to be a Fergie clone. Maybe he is taking too much advise from the old gaffer.

I'd imagine so, someone made a thread a few weeks ago "should Fergie have cut all ties with the club" I thought it was a good question to ask and at the time I wasn't too sure of my own answer. Now I'm starting to think he should have.

 

[Godfather]

But when we've played brilliantly this season, we've still looked toothless. The lack of Rooney and RVP has been incredible. Last year we'd play these guys the ball earlier and they basically made up for our lack of creative midfielder so we we're able to play through the middle or knock out wide and be a threat. RVP especially. This year it's been a case of knock it out wide as we have no option to take it into the middle. We end up just having a lot of possession outside the box passing it around looking for a way in then we get battered on the counter. It's something we all recognised years ago. Now it's coming home to roost.

What has annoyed me is watching our strikers make runs in the middle and not a single attempt of a pass to them has been made. The only player I've seen do it this year from the middle is Giggs. Kagawa has tried it a few times but most of them end up being like Andersons passes. Fletcher has a few times and to good effect.

Also we'd been on a good run of form. the last 2 matches have been dire. We looked like we had a makeshift central midfield starting to happen with Jones and Cleverley and Rooney dropping back to make the numbers in the middle. Then Jones and now Rooney got injured. Carrick is only just returning from injury and looks off the pace. As great as it has been having Fletcher back. He is a shadow of the former player he was ( it might improve but will take time) and the fact we have to pick him in the centre speaks volumes.

Moyes said at the start of the season he's looking to bring in players that will go straight into the first team. I agree, we have to many players now making up numbers for me. Hell I've been Anderson's biggest defender but I want him gone now. Unfortunately the players we need won't be coming this winter. I'd like to see him sell some players and bring some of those youths out on loan back. May as well. We've nothing to lose at this point.

What I have seen though is, when we've played good is a zip and speed to our play I've not seen for a long time. Now that does interest me.

Can't remember any games that we really looked brilliant in tbh. We looked okay in some. Games you'd expect from United really. BUt nothing outstanding.
I don't agree that we've looked like this last year. We haven't played very well but we never looked as toothless. You mention injuries but Rooney was out last year as well and looked like he couldnt give a flying feck at times.
There's no doubt we have bad luck with injuries but the level of performance we put in at times cannot be excused. And that's partly down to management as well. There's no denying in that. Something's going wrong.

I agree with your point about the lack of through passes. IF you watch our strikers closely they often make runs in behind the defence, just that no one in our team has the balls to play them.
And as much as Anderson has stalled or regressed or whatever but one thing always impressed me about him (well when he was on top of his game) and that was his will to make things happen through the middle.

 

[Adebesi]

The results might be better, but everyone would still be saying the football is shit and why didn't we buy a midfielder.

If all other things were equal we would have bought a midfielder: Fellaini. But yes, we would all be complaining, being football fans, and more specifically United fans, that is what we do.

 

[Amir]

It's easy to just blame Moyes for the current mess, but he inherited a bit of a mess, and with the club's head buried in the sand due to Fergie's ability to still drag results out of it.

You may not be wrong. But I'll tell you this - if we were in a bit of a mess anyway, appointing Moyes to clear it out and improve things has been the wrong decision and only added to the mess, because he's got a lot to learn about managing in this level before he even makes big changes. Maybe he could have been the right man if we weren't in a different situation. But he's not now.

 

[Amir]

I wish people stopped citing the "lack of Rooney and RVP". Van Persie started 10 league games, Rooney started 16, they started 7 together. We were shite in many many games in which one or both played. It's an excuse, plain and simple. Other clubs had injuries too. We have a fecking huge squad precisely because of that.

It's a comfortable excuse. But the reality is the current team will go as far as the top players it has got will take it - and like you said, even when Rooney and Van Persie played we never looked that good. Rather than being a team, the sum of its parts or hopefully even more, we're just a bunch of players. When the best ones are fit, we look OK, good at times. When they are not, well...

 

[Siorac]

Can't remember any games that we really looked brilliant in tbh. We looked okay in some. Games you'd expect from United really. BUt nothing outstanding.
I don't agree that we've looked like this last year. We haven't played very well but we never looked as toothless. You mention injuries but Rooney was out last year as well and looked like he couldnt give a flying feck at times.
There's no doubt we have bad luck with injuries but the level of performance we put in at times cannot be excused. And that's partly down to management as well. There's no denying in that. Something's going wrong.

Exactly. Rooney started just 22 out of 38 league games last season. We still won the league.

 

[Mainoldo]

Sorry, but you can't allow yourself, as a club, to get gradually weaker and weaker over a period of years, and then expect someone new to come in and just fix everything, in one summer, when the club refuse to sign any of the players he wanted.

How is it David Moyes fault exactly that our midfield is in the state it's in. It was in the same state last year, and the year before, and the year before that. Were you claiming Fergie wasn't up to it every time he just sat there allowing it to get worse? The fact he did this for nearly 5 fecking years is now entirely David Moyes's fault? That's completely ridiculous. There are people on here blaming Moyes for the exact same thing that they lamblasted people for daring to criticise Ferguson about. It's embarassing, and I'd be worried if the club started listening to people who can't look at something so obvious logically.

It comes down to the manager to motivate and get the best out of his players. I think it's fair to say Moyes isn't doing that at the moment. He's had time now to know his squad well enough not to be pissing around with the team nearly as much as he is.

On the other hand you have to take into account that every single player who performed for United last season, has been missing for significant time with injury. Van Persie and Carrick were the reason we won the league last season and you can argue that neither have been fully fit for a single game this. Rafael pretty much the same. You can't just ignore that being a factor either, because if you take their contributions away from last term, we'd have been absolutely shite. We managed to large shite in a large number of gaves even WITH their contribution.

And you can't just absolve the players of any blame either. They're supposed to be winners. Chelsea won a CL with De Matteo as manager, regularly performed well with people like Avram Grant or Benitez in charge. It's not acceptable to just go hiding behind the manager every time things aren't going well. It's completely feeble in fact. If you have anything about you as a player you go out and try to do something about it. That would be the bare minimum requirement of a professional sportsman for me. It's like a mailman delivering the post, as Keane would say. Yet there's about 3 people in our entire squad who you can say have even done that, and one of them's an 18 year old who hadn't even played before this season.

Funny you should bring up Chelsea who also had a time on the wind down who's players just refused to play for AVB. Maybe the players just don't Moyes or believe in what he brings. I would not say they are not trying. I don't see that on the pitch. They are just playing with no direction. Unless you have a team with Ronaldo, Raul, Figo, Zidane and Casillas.. This does not work, well you could argue never did that.

 

[Gambit]

Yeah, we played brilliantly, erm, once. At Leverkusen. And maybe at OT against them, at a stretch.

I wish people stopped citing the "lack of Rooney and RVP". Van Persie started 10 league games, Rooney started 16, they started 7 together. We were shite in many many games in which one or both played. It's an excuse, plain and simple. Other clubs had injuries too. We have a fecking huge squad precisely because of that.

I've not made any excuses. We're not good enough. Plain and simple. The injuries have driven the point home.