I didn't deserve it but I like it
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Is the team improving from how it was at the beginning of the season?. Is the style of play improving?. Are individual players improving?.
How the feck can you not like the manager of Manchester United?
I wasn't aware liking the manager was necessary to support the club? The club is bigger than the manager.
Hard to know. We started ok, went to complete shit, then there was some hope that things will get better after some results, went back to one of the worst United sides I have ever seen and then suddenly become decent. We won the last 4 games in the league (the last 6 in all competitions) which is very good. Before these 4 games, the best result was 2 wins in a row.
Mixed opinion here. We are still a very unimaginative side that struggles to create chances. Our only creativity so far comes by Januzaj and Rooney, while our play is very focused on crosses. On the bright side, we now seem to be capable of holding the ball more than a month or two ago, and our defense is a bit better.
Yes. Cleverley in particular now is playing good. He was on Liam Miller's level in some of his early performances. Welbeck is playing excellent. Jones is playing very good, as is Smalling. Young and Valencia now doesn't look completely hopeless.
Summarizing Moyes's work after half of the season, I am a bit disappointed. Our form, results and performances in league have been shocking. Fortunately for us other teams haven't been excellent so we find ourselves in not a very bad position. Still, we weren't near good enough and we should drastically improve. The last 4 games have been a good sign (and 12 points) which give us hope for better days, but until those games we have been similar to Liverpool under Hodgson. Still this will be forgotten if things now will continue like in last 2 weeks.
CC and UCL were another matter though. Both performances and results were much better and we deservedly qualified for later stages.
Signing (or the lack of it) were awful. We missed on some players which could have improved us and overpayed for someone who won't improve us.
Press interviews started awful, but now he is saying the exact right things. Moyes is looking more confident than in beginning when he looked like an afraid child.
In overall a disappointing campaign, but with some signs of progress now and then and with definite signs of progress after Newcastle game. In overall I would say a 5/10. Still, it looks that this year the league will be won with around 80 points, so I think that 70 will do the job for the fourth place. Here I think should Moyes get judged in the end. Get the fourth place and continue the job. However, despite of negatives there are also encouraging signs. We look a better team than some months ago now, we are playing with more confidence, Moyes is looking more confident and we are getting results. If we continue the form of last few weeks I think that even the third place will be possible, which was a realistic target before the beginning of season. The title I think is already out of reach, and I think that in the end the difference on points with City will be bigger than 7. Still, UCL for next season with a strong second half season and some signs of improving will be as good as we could have hoped for.
Yeah but why would you not like Moyes? What would make you ever not like him?
He's conducted himself fantastically since he come in.
Weird
He replaced the leading coaching staff and we've been playing boring, unimaginative football. I like him as a person, but not as a manager.
We were playing similarly boring, unimaginative football under Fergie with his coaching staff.
fecking Fergie...
Yes, but he inspired confidence and won games as well.
Interesting to compare the months of criticism of Moyes in the press, every decision dissected and debated and a lot of negativity surrounding him to that of Rodgers at Liverpool, who can seemingly do no wrong. You'd never think that only 2 points separate the teams, with us missing arguably our best player for a lot of the season and having to deal with a lot of change.
Not that Moyes hasn't made mistakes and been totally convincing but it's far too early to make any long-term judgements.
Not that Moyes hasn't made mistakes and been totally convincing but it's far too early to make any long-term judgements.
One thing I really do like, to give him credit, is his management of Welbeck.
He basically said "Oi, get the finger out!!" And, truth be told, he has since he said it
He basically said "Oi, get the finger out!!" And, truth be told, he has since he said it
Things are definitely beginning to improve, I hope we can build on this little run of wins we have. We aren't playing particularly well but we've still got a lot of injured players to come back and we're starting to grind out results. Hopefully we can manage to get a couple players in during this transfer window to help us out. Either way we're starting to crawl back up the table.
It has been mostly disappointing so far but I'm starting to see some positive signs, and we aren't too far off the pace from Europe. I still fancy us over Everton, Tottenham, and Liverpool in the league table.
It has been mostly disappointing so far but I'm starting to see some positive signs, and we aren't too far off the pace from Europe. I still fancy us over Everton, Tottenham, and Liverpool in the league table.
Shouldn't even be mentioned!! With the exception of a handful of games, Liverpool have been shit!!
I meant Tottenham as well. Basically, I think we'll finish 4th.
We still shouldn't even be in that mindset...The guy says he wants to build a young, exciting, attacking United team...
Well, another season of this and he won't be building anything here! Times have changed. Football has changed. He hasn't exactly inherited a struggling, lackluster club
1st in 2011
CL finalist in 2011
2nd in 2012 only to lose on GD
1st last year and robbed of a place in the next round of the CL
To, people being happy to accept 4th...Nah, I won't be happy with it anyways.
We finished 28 points ahead of Liverpool last season, 37 points before that, 22 before that, then 22, etc. Being "only" two points behind them half way through the season is not something that goes in Moyes' favour. I still think we'll finish well above Liverpool, but up until now, Moyes deserves to suffer more criticism than Rodgers.
You're expecting too much. This is Moyes' first season at United and he's following n Sir Alex's footsteps. The entire club is in a transition period. I'll be perfectly content with 4th this season. Obviously I hope for better but you can't expect that every season. Fourth at least will keep us in Europe and give us a platform to build on in the summer.
I expected 3rd...A league cup...A decent run in the FA cup and to get knocked into the Europa league.
He's over delivered in the CL for me and delivered in the league cup..Hats off to him...But no way will I accept 4th in the league as been an "achievement" ...I knew a drop off was to be expected. I was completely happy with third and having a bit of a go at the league but settling for 4th??? We're not bloody Arsenal
Can't believe the transition from the greatest manager of the modern era wasn't smooth and we aren't in first. Shocking.
Aye - he did that. He was pretty good, old Frogie.
His fabled coaching staff, however, is an entirely different kettle of shite spouting, self-promoting, not-too-glorious-looking-at-this-very-moment...er...fish. Call me naive but I believe Fergie was the main force behind our success. Not Rene "0-6" Meulensteen or that other bloke who liked to wear shorts. They were good minnows under the great man. But they were minnows who could have been replaced by other minnows. In fact, I'll be brash enough to say that Fergie had better minnows working for him in the past.
Considering I said I expected us to finish 3rd and get knocked out of the group stages of the CL, your sarcastic post has failed massively if pointed at me
Think you're downgrading the coaching staff a long way there. Just because Rene is a bad manager doesn't make him a bad coach. Add the fact that Fergie in his later years took less responsibility shows the "minnows" were of more importance than ever before.
Fergie delegated more and more. He delegated to competent people, obviously, but not to people who were irreplaceable.
Irreplaceable is a strong word, but they were crucial to our and Fergie's success, which is why the word "minnows" and the suggestion they could be interchangeable with anyone was a bit much.
Nooopeeee! But it was directly below my last post so it could be easily seen as though it was directed at me is all
Nooopeeee! But it was directly below my last post so it could be easily seen as though it was directed at me is all
No, more a response to the people constantly harping about Moyes taking over a championship club.
Fair enough - I've got nothing but appreciation for what Rene and Phelan did when they were with us. But the idea that it was a huge mistake by Moyes to let them go is founded on pretty much nothing as far as I'm concerned. It's something which is usually claimed most vehemently by those who are looking for any stick to beat him with. The same people who have nothing to say when it is mentioned that David de Gea looks better than ever - and more assured in the box, not least - after having worked with Woods for a while.
I still don't know exactly what the hell Mike Phelan did. But I don't think our future success depends on him. In fact, I'm convinced it depends on David Moyes, just like it did on Fergie. The people he chooses to work with are all important in their own way, but they're still secondary figures at the end of the day.
And both Phelan and Rene have spouted some shite in the months after Fergie's retirement. They're due some sarcasm in my opinion.
We have finished with 20 or more points than Liverpool in the last 4 seasons.
Rodgers was also without his best player for 6 games or so, while other important players ( Sturridge and Gerrard) missed some games too.
Being 2 points after Liverpool isn't something you can praise Moyes for.
However, I agree that is too early to make judgement and in the last 4 games we have shown some constitency. We see how things will go in the end, personally I think we will finish fourth (maybe even third) and when we were 8 points behind scousers I made a bet with my best mate that we'll finisj above them. But still praising Moyes for being only a few points behind inferior teams who haven't finishef above us on 2 decades it's ridiculous.
I'm jot sure what thread this really belongs in so I'll chuck it in here.
SSN were just doing a run down of stats for the season so far. We're fourth in terms of shot conversion with 16.8%, City being first with 21.2%. On average possession we weren't in the top six, Swansea having the most with 60% and Chelsea being sixth with 54.4%. Palace have the most tackes with 433, Arsenal being sixth with 383. Villa have the most yellows with 43. We're third with 39. WBA being sixth with 34. The player who has created most chances is Hazard with 47, down to Gerrard in sixth with 40. We don't have anyone in the list. In passes mare Toure is first with 1365, down to De Guzman in sixth with 1084. Again we don't have anyone in the list. Tackles made has Yacob at the top with 70, down to Debuchy with 64 and again we don't feature.
Obviously stats are very limited and without context it's hard to know where we actually fall in those lists or what they actually mean but they do suggest the obvious in terms of our performance.
SSN were just doing a run down of stats for the season so far. We're fourth in terms of shot conversion with 16.8%, City being first with 21.2%. On average possession we weren't in the top six, Swansea having the most with 60% and Chelsea being sixth with 54.4%. Palace have the most tackes with 433, Arsenal being sixth with 383. Villa have the most yellows with 43. We're third with 39. WBA being sixth with 34. The player who has created most chances is Hazard with 47, down to Gerrard in sixth with 40. We don't have anyone in the list. In passes mare Toure is first with 1365, down to De Guzman in sixth with 1084. Again we don't have anyone in the list. Tackles made has Yacob at the top with 70, down to Debuchy with 64 and again we don't feature.
Obviously stats are very limited and without context it's hard to know where we actually fall in those lists or what they actually mean but they do suggest the obvious in terms of our performance.
Thanks for sharing that Brophs!
We struggle to move the ball around the pitch with any sort of fluency, that much is obvious. A good midfielder or two would help.
A lot of people dont read anything into statistics....but that is painful reading. Then again, not something any of us should be surprised about. If you dont have the ball enough, you cant pass the ball around. If you cant pass the ball around, then you dont create a lot of chances. Football...in a nutshell right there! Ha ha.
An interesting discussion would be if there has been any kind of improvement in these areas in the last 5 games....i suspect there hasnt been despite the results.
Nice one, Brophs.
Rooney has created 38 "chances" for us in the league, so he's pretty close to Hazard.
Carrick, I reckon, would be higher on the list of top passer, if it wasn't for injury. He currently has made 738 successful passes. But I don't think it means that much. It just shows the different styles implemented at various clubs.
Rooney has created 38 "chances" for us in the league, so he's pretty close to Hazard.
Carrick, I reckon, would be higher on the list of top passer, if it wasn't for injury. He currently has made 738 successful passes. But I don't think it means that much. It just shows the different styles implemented at various clubs.
At least we know Moyes will respect our club and not drag it through the mud like Jose. Jose and Chelsea are a perfect fit. He might win but I would prefer to be respected as well. Also not sure he will win as much as Chelsea fans think he will.
The injuries have been terrible for us this season, our goal total is down, but RVP has either been injured or carrying an injury. We knew that until that midfield was improved we wouldn't get many goals from there. If both these situations are rectified our performances and position will change dramatically. I think Moyes is doing as well as can be expected under the circumstances.
Pretty grim stats.
In fairness in terms of chances created we've been swapping between valencia, nani, young, kagawa and januzaj all season, no one bar really Valencia has been consistently played and we know he's still far away from what he should be doing so no surprise, though imagine Rooney can't be far away from the list.
In terms of passing as others have said Carrick has missed some games and was carrying an injury before that, would expect him to be there otherwise. Again with the other midfield spot being rotated between fellaini, clev, jones and giggs hardly a surprise that they've not racked up high numbers individually.
Then in terms of tackles again we've rotated the defence a lot too, rafael has had a couple of injuries, with smalling/jones covering in and out there, and at centreback we've also only recently settled on a more consistent partnership.
I mean we all know it's not been the best season so far and that the football has left a lot to be desired but either way we're only 8 points of top and whilst City/Chelsea themselves may well improve, having new managers this year understanding their players as Moyes has been, there's no reason we shouldn't be able to out perform the likes of Everton, Liverpool and Arsenal who haven't had the set backs we've had. With some key players returning to fitness and now needing to find form, Moyes having surely a better understanding of his players and clearly some new confidence creeping in to the players I'd be surprised if things don't look a bit better for us come the end of the season.
That's just excuses right there in all honesty, there is more than enough quality in the squad to be comfortably up with the leading pack. Moyes hasn't done as well as can be expected and I think if you asked him he would recognise that.
So, do you absolve Moyes of any blame on this? He had his chance in the summer and most definitely played a part in not rectifying this. Blame Woodward all you like, but Moyes has to carry a percentage of the blame. He came with a reputation for dithering in the market and thats what we got.
As for the injuries, many will point the finger at him as well. Its been well reported the difference in physical training and you can do some analysis on Everton's first 6 months over his time there. Season in, season out, Everton experienced injuries a plenty and averaged less points per game than they did in the 2nd half of the season. This could be attributed to driving the players too hard in pre-season. The players we have out just now are all muscular injuries (3 of them Groin injuries) - this is most likely down to overuse/fatigued muscle.
It may benefit us in the long run, but the stats are there to prove that this happened with Moyes at Everton and the same is happening at Utd.
The main thing that needs dramatic improvement is our home record in the league. It's bad for a club for United's standing. We are 11th best in the league.
Stark contrast with the away form where we are 2nd best for points and joint top scorers. Improve the home form and maintain the away and we will be fine. Really not bothered about anything but qualifying for the Champions League this season and that we continue to progress in terms of performances and getting the most out of the squad we have.
Stark contrast with the away form where we are 2nd best for points and joint top scorers. Improve the home form and maintain the away and we will be fine. Really not bothered about anything but qualifying for the Champions League this season and that we continue to progress in terms of performances and getting the most out of the squad we have.
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