Good post.. I think most people are still firmly behind him, and I want him to do well too but I just don't see it. He just isn't cut out for the top level in my opinion. A lot of people don't want him to get sacked after 6 months because it's what Chelsea has always done, sacking managers for a bit of a slow start, but this is not even close to the same thing. In their case, they got sacked after being in 5th or 6th for a bit, so it is obviously premature. Moyes has taken a team that walked the league and is now firmly midtable, 7th points off the top 4 with only 22 points in 15 games. Look at our home record as well, 8 games, 3 wins, 2 draws, 3 losses, 8 goals scored and 7 conceded; it's awful. If he stays then he needs to forget everything he did at Everton because the things that turned Everton into a midtable team are not going to turn us back into title contenders. Like someone else said, but basically everything has to change about David Moyes for him to be a success here. His mentality, his confidence, the type of person he is (he's too nice I feel to be a manager at United), the way he likes his teams to play, everything.
Moyes So Far!
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Good post.. I think most people are still firmly behind him, and I want him to do well too but I just don't see it. He just isn't cut out for the top level in my opinion. A lot of people don't want him to get sacked after 6 months because it's what Chelsea has always done, sacking managers for a bit of a slow start, but this is not even close to the same thing. In their case, they got sacked after being in 5th or 6th for a bit, so it is obviously premature. Moyes has taken a team that walked the league and is now firmly midtable, 7th points off the top 4 with only 22 points in 15 games. Look at our home record as well, 8 games, 3 wins, 2 draws, 3 losses, 8 goals scored and 7 conceded; it's awful. If he stays then he needs to forget everything he did at Everton because the things that turned Everton into a midtable team are not going to turn us back into title contenders. Like someone else said, but basically everything has to change about David Moyes for him to be a success here. His mentality, his confidence, the type of person he is (he's too nice I feel to be a manager at United), the way he likes his teams to play, everything.
What you've seen Moyes do is build a few very competitive teams at Everton, which is what we're looking for, someone to come in and build this squad for the future.
If we don't give him three years, at least, to do that, I don't think it will be a fair shake.
Moyes time here seems identical to dalglish's recent stint at liverpool - dull out of date tactics while signing players based on how much they get stuck into a tackle over players of far higher technical ability.....I just can't see things improving till carrick get back from injury in a few weeks or so....I'm certain we'll have lost a couple more till then
scousers campaigning KMAM 
When I saw the Moyes quoted saying we'll still be right up there and go for the title still I was a bit surprised.
A few weeks ago we were 5 off top, now we're around that off 4th!
Arsenal will be 15 clear if they win tomorrow!! We have to win 5 games and them lose them just to equal it out.
Fark.
A few weeks ago we were 5 off top, now we're around that off 4th!
Arsenal will be 15 clear if they win tomorrow!! We have to win 5 games and them lose them just to equal it out.
Fark.
If we were asking lots of questions of teams you'd easily see light at the end of the tunnel. But we're not. Save for a 5 minute rally today and last week, we seemed content with the scoreline for much of the match. That's the most disappointing thing about it. If we werent all guns blazing looking for the equaliser or the goal then not getting it would suck but be easier to accept than the current situation where we play like a team resigned to what they have.
They're not our target anymore.
Well, it will be a brave decision to give 3 years to Moyes if he continues like this. If he turns out to be really good - which will be nothing short of a miracle - fantastic. If not, we will have to spend the next 5 years in order to get to the point of qualifying regularly for UCL. Too much at stake IMO. If we don't get the fourth place, I don't see how it will be logical in any possible direction to let him continue.
Yet Moyes is still talking about the title/right up there.
I think most of us realise we're in one heck of a dog fight for 4th with about 4 others.
Top 4 isn't an unfair minimum expectation to a team that have won the title.
1st to 4th is a big drop, and lets not forget we haven't come as low as 4th in most fans living memory!
I think most of us realise we're in one heck of a dog fight for 4th with about 4 others.
Top 4 isn't an unfair minimum expectation to a team that have won the title.
1st to 4th is a big drop, and lets not forget we haven't come as low as 4th in most fans living memory!
3 years is ridiculous if there aren't many signs of improvement. Being United manager must have the best job security out of any job in the world if that turns out to be true
He went after Herrera, Fabregas, Bale(allegedly) and Baines. I don't see anything wrong with the players he had in mind, just with the one we ended up with, and even he will turn out to be okay I think. The tactics are what worry me, and the results of course, along with the lack of fight from the players. It all seems to be spiralling out of control at the moment, and he really has to improve on the results if he wants to 1) be able to attract the quality of players he went after in the summer and 2) still be in the job to be able to do so.
Picked a strong lineup and we still were dreadful.. doesn't reflect well on the manager. I think he should be given the season.. we have to judge him through his January buying/selling. That said, I couldn't give a flying feck if Fergie backed him.. means nothing, we'll judge him on his own merits.
Just because it "can" be interpreted differently doesn't render the tool pointless. Just because a poster can post nonsense doesn't mean forums should be shut down.
This is the team that strolled to the league title last season with 4 (?) games to spare. You have to conclude that the manager is not getting nearly enough out of the players.
Football365: Selection of unfit RVP highlights Moyes' desperation
Yeah that's why we went for the likes of Fabregas and Herrera. What else have you got?
I thought they were imposters. Seriously Fabgregas saga was the biggest farce I have ever seen in this top level while Herrera I don't have any idea how they didn't know what everybody knows. That Athletic Club doesn't sell players.
How does any of that meam that Moyes doesn't value technical ability etc? It's the single most retarded thing I've heard.
Januzaj/Nani/Kagawa etc must be playing because they get stuck in so well. fecking stupidity.
To be frank, at Everton sure he assembled a good team of players who weren't so good technically but had the determination to kick on which was great for them. I personally don't want to see that kind of team at United. Before we got Moyes there was a article talking about how he sets his teams up and it centred on how Moyes goes out to stop teams from playing first and winning the game second. At the time I didn't think much of it but looking at United this season and how toothless we have been I cant help but think hes so focused on the defensive side that scoring goals becomes dependant on a single piece of skill.
Funny thing was I felt he started off well, I felt he was trying to develop our own pressing game and play with a higher tempo but 5 games into the season that all dried up and we've got worse as it goes on. I don't know if the players just didn't take to it or what but something clearly isn't working and tbh I wouldn't trust Moyes to build a team in Evertons image (no offense intended). Sure they were competitive but at United you need a bit more.
Did I said that. It was an another poster who said that.
Going for Fabregas was retarded. There was 0 chance that Barca will sell him after they sold Thiago. And I don't get the point of evaluating Herrera 20m. You either pay the clause or don't when you have to deal with Bilbao.
Anyway, if Moyes was able to identify only 3 targets for our midfield this summer (one completely impossible, the other extremely difficult) and the third one is Fellaini who is barely even playing, then God save us.
Football is weird. A week and a half ago, a 5-0 champions league away win against the second placed team in Germany and now we are reduced to this.
A lot of people have just decided to suddenly conveniently ignore the fact that this team was actually rather shit for pretty much all of last season, and most of the season before that. Bailed out almost invariably by Carrick and Van Persie, both of who have spent a majority of this season either injuired or playing despite being nowhere near their best.
That makes a big difference, and the only other difference I can see is that the belief of the players has gone. None of them seem to want the ball, and none have the confidence to do the right thing when they have it.
You can put that down to Moyes as it's his job to address it, but Ferguson has in reality left him a mess of a squad, tainted by average quality, non-winning mentality and spoilt by success. There are so many players there who it seems liked to hide their frailties behind Fergie, and now want to carry on hiding.
You're basically asking Moyes to be as good as Fergie at everything Fergie is good at, and then want to sack him off when it turns out he isn't. Ferguson might be the best manager there's ever been, but when you take his strengths away from this squad, what's becoming apparent is that it's not actually nearly as good as he claimed it was.
Who do you replace Moyes with that suddenly makes this issue go away? I know Mourinho was the big favourite on here and people were spitting their dummies when he went to Chelsea, but he's gone to Chelsea, brought in some average players and generally made them worse. He'd be faced with the same issues here as Moyes has had.
I think what's happened is a dose of reality, though what Moyes does need to do is get the players grafting like hell and forcing themselves to want the ball until they get a few results and the belief starts to come back. At the moment it's like they're all waiting for someone else to do it for them. It's clear they're not going to do what Fergie seemed to think they would in terms of being big enough characters to do it themselves.
To be honest the likes of Rio seemed to take Fergie's "don't let the new manager down" speech as some kind of reverse psychology challenge. They'll be the same whoever the manager is so I don't see the point in yielding the axe before the manager has even had a chance to yield his own.
That makes a big difference, and the only other difference I can see is that the belief of the players has gone. None of them seem to want the ball, and none have the confidence to do the right thing when they have it.
You can put that down to Moyes as it's his job to address it, but Ferguson has in reality left him a mess of a squad, tainted by average quality, non-winning mentality and spoilt by success. There are so many players there who it seems liked to hide their frailties behind Fergie, and now want to carry on hiding.
You're basically asking Moyes to be as good as Fergie at everything Fergie is good at, and then want to sack him off when it turns out he isn't. Ferguson might be the best manager there's ever been, but when you take his strengths away from this squad, what's becoming apparent is that it's not actually nearly as good as he claimed it was.
Who do you replace Moyes with that suddenly makes this issue go away? I know Mourinho was the big favourite on here and people were spitting their dummies when he went to Chelsea, but he's gone to Chelsea, brought in some average players and generally made them worse. He'd be faced with the same issues here as Moyes has had.
I think what's happened is a dose of reality, though what Moyes does need to do is get the players grafting like hell and forcing themselves to want the ball until they get a few results and the belief starts to come back. At the moment it's like they're all waiting for someone else to do it for them. It's clear they're not going to do what Fergie seemed to think they would in terms of being big enough characters to do it themselves.
To be honest the likes of Rio seemed to take Fergie's "don't let the new manager down" speech as some kind of reverse psychology challenge. They'll be the same whoever the manager is so I don't see the point in yielding the axe before the manager has even had a chance to yield his own.
Mounting evidence suggests Herrera was a bluff, wasn't there a piece a while back saying United used lawyers to try and sort a deal knowing it was a bluff to try and get Felliani on the cheap? I only say that because they tracked the people down who were in fact lawyers that helped that player move to Bayern the year before. The less we say about Fabregas the better.
Never-the-less how is that evidence that Moyes is looking for technical able players over his usual preference?
Yeah, I nearly reposted my message from after the Everton game - just how awful must Leverkusen be?
How awful must Dortmund be? Leverkusen have beaten them 0-1 at the Westfalenstadion earlier today.
(That kind of franks Arsenal's form to date, doesn't it, after they defeated Dortmund by the same scoreline? Well, that and our victory over Arsenal a few weeks back. We're not wholly out of this yet, trust me.)
Alright Noodle.
Last season was a weird one. We played 'badly' in the sense that we lacked fluidity and didn't dominate games, but we had an amazing ability to win and it wasn't luck. The difference in the mentality this season is staggering. We never looked even remotely likely to score late on today - last season you generally knew it was coming.
Last season was a weird one. We played 'badly' in the sense that we lacked fluidity and didn't dominate games, but we had an amazing ability to win and it wasn't luck. The difference in the mentality this season is staggering. We never looked even remotely likely to score late on today - last season you generally knew it was coming.
I only watched the game the day after but it looked to me like they just gave up as soon as we scored.
There's still a good team in there when they're given the time to relax and play.
We had the best spell last season when RVP didn't score, but yeah he won us some games in his own. As did Rooney a year before that. I'd like to think that we have a good enough squad to do good even if a player or two are injured.
Beside that, with the same squad we managed to get 89 points a year before we signed RVP.
I think that it is the manager's job to make sure this doesn't happen. Be it motivate them, threaten them or show them his balls (aka Van Gaal). Someone said and might be spot on, Moyes seems to be a nice fella and maybe the players have big egos so this isn't working. If this is the case, maybe he should be less nice.
From the entire post, this point is as far from the reality as it can be. Our squad has a big enough winning mentality. I am pretty sure that our players have more EPL medals than the entire league combined. You can accuse them for everything, but you can't say that they aren't winners. The manager on the other hand...
No-one has asked that to be fair. I don't think that anyone is asking (or expecting) us to be Champions or get 89 points. However around 75 points and the fourth place should be an easy target. I mean, 15 points less than Fergie for a top manager should be managable, right?
There is an another thread for the wish list manager, but yeah from the available ones I think that Marcelo Bielsa is by far the best choice. He is a top manager, a winner, plays football on the right way and is good at building teams. There are many others who have shown much more than Moyes in their careers but there is an open thread for that
I don't think that Ferguson would have managed a bunch of average pussies to win the title year after year. We have a top squad with a few weaknesses. It is not perfect, but is good enough ti qualify for Champions with any top manager. Also, Moyes had a summer to fix these weaknesses, but his 27.5m signing doesn't look to have improve anything.
Not fair to criticize Mourinho, he didn't have the best squad, but then again Chelsea finished 14 points less than us last season. Now they are 8 points better, and don't look worse than last season.
Agree.
Again agree. Rio has been our worst player this season (well at-least on mix with Cleverley, Young and Fellaini) and also is speaking some needless bullshit.
Sorry for multiquoting.
They are a good team. We were brilliant that night, and they looked lost after we scored, but they are far from awful.
Interesting enough, it looks that we still have an aura on Europe, while on England there doesn't look to be a team who fear us anymore.
We were crap last season Mike.
We did have an amazing ability to always believe we would turn it around, but that's what Ferguson brought. That's what he's got that no other manager really has...and I think even he'd have strugged a bit having to nurse this squad through nearly half a season with Carrick and Van Persie struggling to manage a single fully fit looking performance between them. Those two bailed us out so often last season it was a genuine embarassment to the rest of the squad.
He does have to do something about it but the reaction also needs to come from the players. Just not having Ferguson there is a big thing to adapt to, and some of them seem to have adapted by turning into complete fecking plonkers. Vidic today for example was absolutely appalling...he repeatedly looked for the easiest option to get rid of the ball (usually a hoof), then kept trying to blame Jones and Januzaj for not helping him out. Jones made himsef available for a pass immediately more or less every single time Vidic picked up the ball. Vidic just didn't trust himsef enough to make the pass unless Jones practically came and tackled him. That's the captain of the team, being a coward when we need people to step up.
I think everyone's been very spoilt by the mental strength Ferguson brought to the cub, and by everyone I also mean the players.
I don't think it's something you replace just by turing a manager out either. Sooner or later you have to give one time to build a team strong enough to stand up in its own right. You're not going to find another Ferguson because half of his strength was the 20+ years of experience.
Anyone who thinks time and money will sort this problem out is living in cloud cuckoo land. Time and money will not change the manager or his backroom staff. It's not too late to save a top 4 spot but the title is over. Its not even half season and we know we can't compete for the title and our best target is a top4 spot.
Can't fit more than five tweets, hence double post.
At first I thought that Raymond Verheijen is a stupid retard, but now I don't know what to think anymore.
RVP playing 90 minutes when he clearly was unfit wasn't nice to see. Same about Welbeck last game.
The only time I remember SAF doing so was Rooney against Bayern. Like in these two cases, it didn't end well (though Rooney was subbed after an hour or so).
RVP playing 90 minutes when he clearly was unfit wasn't nice to see. Same about Welbeck last game.
The only time I remember SAF doing so was Rooney against Bayern. Like in these two cases, it didn't end well (though Rooney was subbed after an hour or so).
Last season was a little wierd but 'crap' is far too big a word. Also, people always tend to say how players won us trophies when they score loads, but Van Persie didn't score 30 goals by taking the ball on halfway line, beating four men and scoring. The team did a good job to set him up as well. Cleverley struck a good partnership with Carrick for the first few months and when the goals dried up in the second half of the season our defence really stepped up. There were stars to the show, but it was still a team effort.
Worrying quote about how he saw our training regime and could see Van Persie would get injured.
I just don't get it. Why are there people adamant in defending the man despite not seeing any evidence that we're heading in the right direction under his leadership? What is the logic behind all this blind faith?
Is it because sir alex handpicked him? Well, he's gotten things wrong before and no one knows about his capabilities of selecting managers 'cause he's never done it before.
Lads, we don't have a divine right to rule english football. We can't sit back and simply claim that 'if we give him time it'll be alright'. We've seen this film before, poor appointments leading to years of constant struggle(liverpool, remember them?). They also thought things would magically go back to normal, well they didn't and to this day are still trying to find their way back to the top. This is a highly competitive industry, our competitors are
working hard to usurp uas at the top of our tree and we need a man who's good enough to keep us there, or we won't rule english football, simples.
Someone who's shown this level of incompetence and doesn't even possess the track record of a top manager has not really done much to earn this trust and so on. We all want him to do well but if he isn't getting the job done we have to move swiftly to get in someone that will. We can afford it, so why the hell not? Its pretty arrogant of us to think we could find the right man to lead this club to the future directly after sir alex had left. He's a tough act to follow, surely its understandable that we probably won't get it right straight away?
If this goes on any longer our status as a top club will start to become questioned and they'll be consequences for that. I'm confident not supporter of this club wants to see that. Honestly, if by the end of December the situation hasn't improved we should call it time on his time here. We have no business accepting mediocrity and that's exactly what he's been since coming here, mediocre!
Is it because sir alex handpicked him? Well, he's gotten things wrong before and no one knows about his capabilities of selecting managers 'cause he's never done it before.
Lads, we don't have a divine right to rule english football. We can't sit back and simply claim that 'if we give him time it'll be alright'. We've seen this film before, poor appointments leading to years of constant struggle(liverpool, remember them?). They also thought things would magically go back to normal, well they didn't and to this day are still trying to find their way back to the top. This is a highly competitive industry, our competitors are
working hard to usurp uas at the top of our tree and we need a man who's good enough to keep us there, or we won't rule english football, simples.
Someone who's shown this level of incompetence and doesn't even possess the track record of a top manager has not really done much to earn this trust and so on. We all want him to do well but if he isn't getting the job done we have to move swiftly to get in someone that will. We can afford it, so why the hell not? Its pretty arrogant of us to think we could find the right man to lead this club to the future directly after sir alex had left. He's a tough act to follow, surely its understandable that we probably won't get it right straight away?
If this goes on any longer our status as a top club will start to become questioned and they'll be consequences for that. I'm confident not supporter of this club wants to see that. Honestly, if by the end of December the situation hasn't improved we should call it time on his time here. We have no business accepting mediocrity and that's exactly what he's been since coming here, mediocre!
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