Moyes So Far!

[Sky1981]

So when is it the players fault?
It's the managers fault if he makes the wrong subs, picks the wrong formation, wrong tactics, plus many other reasons. Not for players making silly mistakes though.

Based on that it's the manager's fault he pick a not in form Evra and a CB as RB.

It's not always the manager's fault, but for all the good and the bad (unless a player going racist or biting ala Suarez) I believe as the manager Moyes will always gets the share of the blame (and praises if the team plays well), and this is not only Manchester United, every other team will face the same deal. Infact most Corporation / Nations still adhere to this, that at the end of the day, the leader in charge is responsible.

I'm not saying it in a spastic kinda way, but if the team is not performing in 10+ games we've played so far, the bucks have to stop at the manager.

Give him time, new to the team, transition yadda yadda. Fair enough, but the blame/praise will lie on his door comes appraisal day.

We credited SAF for all our trophy win apart, he never kicked a ball himself.

All I'm saying is that fair and square, good or bad, the manager will be responsible for the team's performance over the season (bar a few extraordinary cases of blatant feck up by a player)

 

[Annahnomoss]

So when is it the players fault?
It's the managers fault if he makes the wrong subs, picks the wrong formation, wrong tactics, plus many other reasons. Not for players making silly mistakes though.

It is about likelihood. If your team dominates the other team for 90 minutes but 2 individual mistakes means you lose or draw - then that is the players fault and nothing the manager can do about it.

If you play against a middle/bottom side and allow them to get 50% of the possession and create more chances than your team - then you are at a much higher risk to concede because of individual mistakes.

The majority of goals in football are scored because of a bigger/smaller individual mistake, all you can do is try to minimize your own risks and maximize the chances to use your opponents risks. I am usually one of the more positive people on here about Moyes since the start - but there is no hiding from the fact that Moyes failed in this game.

Hopefully he realizes that 4-4-2 is not an option for us and that our central midfield will be out-played even against bottom sides if we put them in such unfavorable positions.

 

[Getsme]

Why does it have to one or the others fault?

When results go wrong, blame is always shared. But the manager will always be responsible for most of it at the end of the day, especially if he's given a chance to control things.

It should be shared, is it though?
I don't believe it is. I've read everything from, why did Moyes play Smalling, Fabio must be shagging Moyes daughter, Is Rafael really injured, Moyes seems to have brought a bit panic into the team into the last few minutes, to name but a few.
If the manager has a full squad then yes he can control things, however on Sunday he was down to the bare bones, the team was picked for him not by him. Would Smalling have been playing right back if Rafael had been injured? No. So he has to trust his players he could pick to do the basics against the poorer teams in the league, and they let him and the fans down.
It seems to me at the moment that a lot of our players are getting a free ride off Moyes back.
Maybe I'm reading to much into it,I don't know.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It should be shared, is it though?
I don't believe it is. I've read everything from, why did Moyes play Smalling, Fabio must be shagging Moyes daughter, Is Rafael really injured, Moyes seems to have brought a bit panic into the team into the last few minutes, to name but a few.
If the manager has a full squad then yes he can control things, however on Sunday he was down to the bare bones, the team was picked for him not by him. Would Smalling have been playing right back if Rafael had been injured? No. So he has to trust his players he could pick to do the basics against the poorer teams in the league, and they let him and the fans down.
It seems to me at the moment that a lot of our players are getting a free ride off Moyse's back.
Maybe I'm reading to much into it,I don't know.

Personally I think thee responsibility comes down to the manager at the end of the day. Yes, you can blame a player for not giving his all or for making individual mistakes or for having an off day. But the onus, especially over a period of months and years, is on the manager to get the best out of his players. Sometimes, there are things out of your control like when you aren't allowed freedom by owners, and sometimes you get slightly unlucky despite good performances. Neither of these are happening with Moyes at united. He is simply getting very little out of a quality squad, so I don't think he falls into the category of a manager who's doing all he can right, but being unlucky due to forces out of his control. This team can and should be playing better and majority of the responsibility is his to bear.

 

[Randall Flagg]

I think at many times we have displayed a rather concerning lack of control in games.

Many have said we played shit last season too, but although we were boring at times you always felt our side maintained a decent amount of control. I cant remember last time we have looked so vulnerable against weaker sides.

West Brom, Stoke, Saints, Sociedad all at home have been shockingly bad performances IMO. And not what we are used to. Away to Cardiff and Sunderland were poor too. But at least they were away.

Its going to take time. The manager is the most important person at a football club and responsibility will always come down to him

 

[Getsme]

Personally I think thee responsibility comes down to the manager at the end of the day. Yes, you can blame a player for not giving his all or for making individual mistakes or for having an off day. But the onus, especially over a period of months and years, is on the manager to get the best out of his players. Sometimes, there are things out of your control like when you aren't allowed freedom by owners, and sometimes you get slightly unlucky despite good performances. Neither of these are happening with Moyes at united. He is simply getting very little out of a quality squad, so I don't think he falls into the category of a manager who's doing all he can right, but being unlucky due to forces out of his control. This team can and should be playing better and majority of the responsibility is his to bear.

You are talking like Moyes has been given a chance, it's still not his team. We really aren't playing that much different than we where last season, no matter how much we try and kid ourselves. If Sir Alex couldn't get us playing attractive football with this squad what hope has Moyes got. We as fans have to get behind him and give him time, not blame him every time a player gives away a free kick that leads to a goal.
A manager builds a squad on how he likes his team to play football, all managers do it, even Alex Ferguson did it. Yes the team should be playing better, no one disagrees with that but it's not always down to the manager.

 

[Annahnomoss]

It should be shared, is it though?
I don't believe it is. I've read everything from, why did Moyes play Smalling, Fabio must be shagging Moyes daughter, Is Rafael really injured, Moyes seems to have brought a bit panic into the team into the last few minutes, to name but a few.
If the manager has a full squad then yes he can control things, however on Sunday he was down to the bare bones, the team was picked for him not by him. Would Smalling have been playing right back if Rafael had been injured? No. So he has to trust his players he could pick to do the basics against the poorer teams in the league, and they let him and the fans down.
It seems to me at the moment that a lot of our players are getting a free ride off Moyse's back.
Maybe I'm reading to much into it,I don't know.

The Smalling over Rafael was not odd at all, I think most of us expected it as Cardiff are known for their wing-play/crosses/set-pieces.

The bad choices by Moyes was made in the midfield and offensive part of the pitch where we actually drew possession AND chances created against a bottom side. In fact they created more chances than us in open-play.

We had Anderson/Giggs/Januzaj for the AM role available and Rooney should have played as the striker. On the wings we had Nani, Welbeck, Zaha, Young available who would all do a better job at keeping possession than Valencia.

We had enough players to alter the outcome of this game, so to pretend Moyes only had 11 players to pick from is ridiculous even if we were severely hampered of course.

 

[Commadus]

what rubbish is that because its not his team he is absolved from responsiblilty.

Man United have gone nine PL away games without keeping a clean sheet.

He hasn't made us better defensively only worse offensively with no real benefit.

As long as Fergie is around Moyes won't be sacked, that's a worrying thought. He should be assessed at the end of the season but Accepting fourth place from a team that collected 89 points in the last 2 seasons is a failing of the manager.

United did one thing well, stuck with Fergie and it worked out. But it seems now we are doing the same with players - hoping they will come good. So they end up staying longer than they should.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's obviously the manager's responsibility at the end of the day - but that doesn't mean every mishap and every case of under-performing is his fault. Nor is an injury crisis, for that matter. Given the circumstances I don't see what he could have done radically different on Sunday. He could have started Giggs or Ando in the middle - but that isn't an obvious move. He could have started Nani over Valencia or Januzaj - but that isn't an obvious move either. Smalling is an offensively atrocious fullback - but there you go: He doesn't seem to fancy Fabio for some reason. The latter is odd to me, I'll gladly admit that.

Point is, as I see it, that if we had escaped with all three points it would've been decent enough given how many regular starters we lacked on the day - and we nearly did escape. It wasn't a tactical shambles on Moyes' part - which is not to say he's not ultimately responsible for the way we play football: He is - and we are not looking good at the moment. However, it's not like he's inherited a team that breezed past their opponents in glorious style - and turned them into what we saw on Sunday. That simply isn't the case. Much of what is wrong at the moment was evident last season too. It may take some time to get it right.

 

[Sky1981]

what rubbish is that because its not his team he is absolved from responsiblilty.

Man United have gone nine PL away games without keeping a clean sheet.

He hasn't made us better defensively only worse offensively with no real benefit.

As long as Fergie is around Moyes won't be sacked, that's a worrying thought. He should be assessed at the end of the season but Accepting fourth place from a team that collected 89 points in the last 2 seasons is a failing of the manager.

United did one thing well, stuck with Fergie and it worked out. But it seems now we are doing the same with players - hoping they will come good. So they end up staying longer than they should.

Most of the players who overstayed actually played their part, and its a shrewd move by SAF.

They're just not meant to be the key player anymore.

I believe Jones / Evans / Smailing / Rafael / Fabio are the next generation and should be first teamer while Vidic/Rio/Evra providing the platform for succession.

Giggs / Scholes is impact player, and with Giggs, he should just hang his boot, there's no shame in calling it at 40. He's done more than enough, and at the moment he's more than just a liability.

There's nothing wrong with our player, none of them overstay. We just haven't properly replace Scholes / Keane / Ronaldo, even to the lesser extend players like Cleverly / Anderson provides squad depth... "squad depth"... they're simply not meant to be a starter for Manchester United (and this is not a dig at them, they just aren't)

 

[Sarni]

It's his team though. He had the money to spend in the Summer, he actually spent £30m to improve the midfield only he got the wrong player.

We cannot shift the blame for the performances elsewhere. He's the one picking the team, motivating players and he was also the one who was supposed to prepare it for the season. If our midfield is inadequate, he should have done better in the market.

I refuse to believe that the potential of this side isn't better than the table is showing currently, we won the league at a canter last season and should really be on 3 titles in a row with pretty much the same squad. We got 89 points last season which would have won the league 9 times out of 10 and would have probably got more had we not secured the title with 4 or 5 games to spare. We nullified Real Madrid home and away in the Champions League until we went down to 10 men and now we cannot even expect to dispose of Cardiff etc.?

People are looking for excuses trying to take some blame off Moyes and it's understandable but we cannot go too far with it. It's his side and he's responsible for how well they are playing and what results they are getting. It's early days but he's made so many errors so far that questions should and will be asked. A home win against Arsenal does not cancel out all his faults.

 

[Getsme]

The Smalling over Rafael was not odd at all, I think most of us expected it as Cardiff are known for their wing-play/crosses/set-pieces. /quote]

Rafael was injured.

The bad choices by Moyes was made in the midfield and offensive part of the pitch where we actually drew possession AND chances created against a bottom side. In fact they created more chances than us in open-play.

We had Anderson/Giggs/Januzaj for the AM role available and Rooney should have played as the striker. On the wings we had Nani, Welbeck, Zaha, Young available who would all do a better job at keeping possession than Valencia.

The same Anderson who hasn't started a game this season, Giggs who will be needed for the Champions league game on Wednesday and couldn't play two games in four days, Nani who was shocking against Stoke and is low on confidence , Zaha who can barely get on the bench, Welbeck who's just back from injury, and Young who's well Young.
As I said his options were limited.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Suggesting Ando as an alternative in the hole is a bit rich, surely. Rooney has played there all season and has been our best player by some distance - only rivaled by DDG, I'd say. Hernandez didn't have a great day but fielding Rooney behind him isn't exactly a tactical blunder.

Oh, and Rafael is injured - he wasn't left out, nor was Kagawa (who picked up an injury during the international break). The one thing which stands out for me is - again - the Fabio situation. What the deal is with Moyes and him remains a bit of a puzzle. I do not understand why he isn't a more central part of the rotation. We are seriously hampered offensively whenever one of the CBs fills in at RB. And what Smalling offers in pure defensive quality doesn't weigh up for it at all.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

You are talking like Moyes has been given a chance, it's still not his team. We really aren't playing that much different than we where last season, no matter how much we try and kid ourselves. If Sir Alex couldn't get us playing attractive football with this squad what hope has Moyes got. We as fans have to get behind him and give him time, not blame him every time a player gives away a free kick that leads to a goal.
A manager builds a squad on how he likes his team to play football, all managers do it, even Alex Ferguson did it. Yes the team should be playing better, no one disagrees with that but it's not always down to the manager.

We played poorly under fergie the last few years, that doesn't mean the new manager has continue with the same shit on a stick football. And I'd argue fergie isn't a barometer of getting this team to play attractive football because he himself didn't do a good job of it in recent times and the new guy should be expected to improve in that respect. I find this notion of "fergie got a quality squad to play boring and disjoint football so no one else can do any different" a completely flawed argument that stems from a belief that fergie was perfection personified. Which he wasn't. He made some mistakes IMO in his latter years and I'd want the new guy to freshen things up and mend them, not continue making them and make them even worse.

Apart from the aspect of this team performing well below their ability, Moyes also had the chance to fix weaknesses in the summer.

And finally it's not "his" team (could have been had he made key signings), but it's a team he's more than lucky to have at his disposal.

 

[Annahnomoss]

That was a weird-ass quote! I know Rafael was injured, but I think Smalling/Jones would be playing RB if all our players were healthy. It wasn't a huge set-back considering how Moyes has used our right back position to dominate the own box from crosses against teams like Cardiff.

Is it not scary that Nani/Zaha/Welbeck/Anderson are all low on form due to various reasons? Who chose not to play Zaha and Anderson all season? Who chose to bench Nani after one bad performance out of 7?

If Moyes wanted to use any of these players then it is surely his job to make sure they have enough game-time to step in when there is an injury problem? Or is it the players fault for not getting match-fit without getting to start games?

Valencia is not a solid winger either since he lost his ability over a year ago so even Nani/Welbeck out of shape has performed better when they get their chance.

 

[Getsme]

We played poorly under fergie the last few years, that doesn't mean the new manager has continue with the same shit on a stick football. And I'd argue fergie isn't a barometer of getting this team to play attractive football because he himself didn't do a good job of it in recent times and the new guy should be expected to improve in that respect. I find this notion of "fergie got a quality squad to play boring and disjoint football so no one else can do any different" a completely flawed argument that stems from a belief that fergie was perfection personified. Which he wasn't. He made some mistakes IMO in his latter years and I'd want the new guy to freshen things up and mend them, not continue making them and make them even worse.

Apart from the aspect of this team performing well below their ability, Moyes also had the chance to fix weaknesses in the summer.

And finally it's not "his" team (could have been had he made key signings), but it's a team he's more than lucky to have at his disposal.

I'm not arguing with that, in fact I'd agree 100%, however things don't change over night. Moyes just can't come in and wave his magic wand. He needs time, and it's time we must give him. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

The summer was a disaster, the worst possible start he could have had. If I'm honest I think he underestimated the size of the job the had taken on. The big test will come next summer, if he hasn't learnt from his mistakes and the club don't back him big in the market then it could spell the end for him. He also has to learn that we are an attacking club so he has to buy the correct type of player, but he has to be given the chance to do so.

 

[Revan]

Ier than the table is showing currently, we won the league at a canter last season and should really be on 3 titles in a row with pretty much the same squad. We got 89 points last season which would have won the league 9 times out of 10 and would have probably got more had we not secured the title with 4 or 5 games to spare. We nullified Real Madrid home and away in the Champions League until we went down to 10 men and now we cannot even expect to dispose of Cardiff etc.?

Don't you know that we won the league last season only because our rivals were poor? This has become the latest excuse on Moyes defense. A bit sad considering that this is the same thing we have always laughed at Scousers, cause they said it everytime we won the league.

But the numbers doesn't lie too much, and 89 points is enough to win you the league almost everytime. Yet I am hearing everyday more (from our fans) that we won the league only because Chelsea/City were shit.

 

[Sarni]

Don't you know that we won the league last season only because our rivals were poor? This has become the latest excuse on Moyes defense. A bit sad considering that this is the same thing we have always laughed at Scousers, cause they said it everytime we won the league.

But the numbers doesn't lie too much, and 89 points is enough to win you the league almost everytime. Yet I am hearing everyday more (from our fans) that we won the league only because Chelsea/City were shit.

Indeed, it's almost like we were playing Chelsea and City each week or something.

Results wise it was one of the best seasons ever for a Premier League team. We were on course for a record points total before we inevitably dropped our performances when we knew we were going to lift the trophy.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I'm not arguing with that, in fact I'd agree 100%, however things don't change over night. Moyes just can't come in and wave his magic wand. He needs time, and it's time we must give him. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

The summer was a disaster, the worst possible start he could have had. If I'm honest I think he underestimated the size of the job the had taken on. The big test will come next summer, if he hasn't learnt from his mistakes and the club don't back him big in the market then it could spell the end for him. He also has to learn that we are an attacking club so he has to buy the correct type of player, but he has to be given the chance to do so.

I'll always give him time. I always said that he has the first season to shape this team into his. However, that doesn't mean we can't judge him as the season goes on, because while these problems are not easy to fix overnight, by now I'd have expected to see some sort of imprint of the "David Moyes way". Rodgers and Martinez have stamped their authority pretty quickly and while I didn't expect such drastic change, I expected some by now. But so far, all I see is the same team with the same bad habits, but without the ability to win games consistently.

 

[Getsme]

That was a weird-ass quote! I know Rafael was injured, but I think Smalling/Jones would be playing RB if all our players were healthy. It wasn't a huge set-back considering how Moyes has used our right back position to dominate the own box from crosses against teams like Cardiff.

Is it not scary that Nani/Zaha/Welbeck/Anderson are all low on form due to various reasons? Who chose not to play Zaha and Anderson all season? Who chose to bench Nani after one bad performance out of 7?

If Moyes wanted to use any of these players then it is surely his job to make sure they have enough game-time to step in when there is an injury problem? Or is it the players fault for not getting match-fit without getting to start games?

Valencia is not a solid winger either since he lost his ability over a year ago so even Nani/Welbeck out of shape has performed better when they get their chance.

I know I'm on my samsung phone
At the end of the day those are fair enough questions to ask, however Moyes knows the players better than us. Most if not all our fans know that Anderson isn't good enough and that me may suffer from err "weight" issues.
Nani hasn't been on form for some time now, he's the marmite of the club. Zaha has proved nothing at the club, fair enough he hasn't been given the chance but maybe he hadn't earned it at training, who knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Most people were happy with the selection considering the injuries, it's only when things go wrong that people start to say ask questions and say they would have done this or that.

 

[#07]

Don't you know that we won the league last season only because our rivals were poor? This has become the latest excuse on Moyes defense. A bit sad considering that this is the same thing we have always laughed at Scousers, cause they said it everytime we won the league.

But the numbers doesn't lie too much, and 89 points is enough to win you the league almost everytime. Yet I am hearing everyday more (from our fans) that we won the league only because Chelsea/City were shit.

This.

There is no excuse for playing as poorly as we did against a newly promoted side at the weekend. Even if, for some strange reason, you genuinely believe United weren't that good last season its a massive jump from that to thinking we shouldn't beat Cardiff.

The team has looked a mess this season. Not all Moyes' fault. However, he cannot escape some blame either.

 

[Sunny Jim]

The problem i see it that none of our players looks sharp and in form (bar Rooney that is).
I know that Moyes' team are supposedly super fit but to me we look over trained thus slow and lacking energy.

Arsenal game aside we did look lethargic all season.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I know I'm on my samsung phone
At the end of the day those are fair enough questions to ask, however Moyes knows the players better than us. Most if not all our fans know that Anderson isn't good enough and that me may suffer from err "weight" issues.
Nani hasn't been on form for some time now, he's the marmite of the club. Zaha has proved nothing at the club, fair enough he hasn't been given the chance but maybe he hadn't earned it at training, who knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Most people were happy with the selection considering the injuries, it's only when things go wrong that people start to say ask questions and say they would have done this or that.

I am definitely on your side about Moyes knowing more than us and being a professional manager therefore he almost certainly took his decisions based on more information than what we have. At the same time one should not forget that every year a dozen of world-class managers gets sacked because of how severe their mistakes has been. Fans needs to criticize but it shouldn't be negative for the club the way Chelsea acted last year.

At the end of the day every manager would rather have the United squad even if the injuries we are having now are permanent over the Cardiff squad. To be happy with equal possession and chances is just absurd.

Rooney vs Cambell?
Fellaini/Cleverley/Anderson/Giggs/Januzaj VS Whittingham, Mutch, Medel?
Januzaj, Nani, Young, Welbeck, Valencia vs Cowie and Odemwingie
Smalling/Evra vs Theophile and Taylor.

I mean lets be realistic, we have a completely superior players on every single position on the pitch and still they created more chances in open-play than us and had the same possession. Moyes lost the tactical battle very hard - hopefully he learns something from it and that is it.

 

[Getsme]

I am definitely on your side about Moyes knowing more than us and being a professional manager therefore he almost certainly took his decisions based on more information than what we have. At the same time one should not forget that every year a dozen of world-class managers gets sacked because of how severe their mistakes has been. Fans needs to criticize but it shouldn't be negative for the club the way Chelsea acted last year.

At the end of the day every manager would rather have the United squad even if the injuries we are having now are permanent over the Cardiff squad. To be happy with equal possession and chances is just absurd.

Rooney vs Cambell?
Fellaini/Cleverley/Anderson/Giggs/Januzaj VS Whittingham, Mutch, Medel?
Januzaj, Nani, Young, Welbeck, Valencia vs Cowie and Odemwingie
Smalling/Evra vs Theophile and Taylor.

I mean lets be realistic, we have a completely superior players on every single position on the pitch and still they created more chances in open-play than us and had the same possession. Moyes lost the tactical battle very hard - hopefully he learns something from it and that is it.

I agree.
However home advantage is often underestimated. So is having a regular starting 11.
Im not defending Moyes here, we should have won, and won quite easily but we have to bring a bit of realism into this season, it was never going to be easy and this will be the toughest season a lot of our fans have ever had to face. Its going to be interesting.

 

[Kag]

We played poorly under fergie the last few years, that doesn't mean the new manager has continue with the same shit on a stick football. And I'd argue fergie isn't a barometer of getting this team to play attractive football because he himself didn't do a good job of it in recent times and the new guy should be expected to improve in that respect. I find this notion of "fergie got a quality squad to play boring and disjoint football so no one else can do any different" a completely flawed argument that stems from a belief that fergie was perfection personified. Which he wasn't. He made some mistakes IMO in his latter years and I'd want the new guy to freshen things up and mend them, not continue making them and make them even worse.

Apart from the aspect of this team performing well below their ability, Moyes also had the chance to fix weaknesses in the summer.

And finally it's not "his" team (could have been had he made key signings), but it's a team he's more than lucky to have at his disposal.

Great post. Spot on.

 

[LonelyFire]

This.

There is no excuse for playing as poorly as we did against a newly promoted side at the weekend. Even if, for some strange reason, you genuinely believe United weren't that good last season its a massive jump from that to thinking we shouldn't beat Cardiff.

The team has looked a mess this season. Not all Moyes' fault. However, he cannot escape some blame either.

It seems that many are giving him a free pass with the stock line - "he needs time". Frankly, some of the errors he has made are basic and the performances are extremely poor.

The team do not trust him - i genuniely think the more experienced players in this squad are sceptical of him and its coming out on the pitch.

PS. Im surprised Moyes use of zonal marking on Sunday has escaped criticism.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I do wonder whether Moyes should try a three man midfield or "something" different for awhile to get a better foothold of games.

 

[Bestie07]

He isn't doing as bad a job as reading this page makes it sound like. The performances and the results leave a lot to be desired, but there has been a definite upturn since the West Brom game. I don't think we have lost a match since, and that game was months ago. The results are definitely improving, but sadly the performances aren't.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I do wonder whether Moyes should try a three man midfield or "something" different for awhile to get a better foothold of games.

I've thought so for weeks now. The problem is the same old one, though: How do you fit both Rooney and RVP into that set-up? In theory we could field a Barca style front line of three: Rooney, RVP and Januzaj/Nani/Welbeck. Then go with Fellaini in a destroyer role in front of the back four, Carrick and Kagawa as the most advanced midfielder. In theory, I says, this could work well. You could throw on Jones for Fellaini, for that matter. And we have plenty of players who could potentially do well in the AM role: Cleverley, Adnan, Rooney - even Fellaini could do plenty of damage in that role against the right kind of opposition.

I don't know if Moyes is willing to experiment with something like that, though. And - again - the main issue is whether both Rooney and RVP would actually work out in that set-up.

 

[Getsme]

I do wonder whether Moyes should try a three man midfield or "something" different for awhile to get a better foothold of games.

I would like to see that if I'm honest.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I agree.
However home advantage is often underestimated. So is having a regular starting 11.
Im not defending Moyes here, we should have won, and won quite easily but we have to bring a bit of realism into this season, it was never going to be easy and this will be the toughest season a lot of our fans have ever had to face. Its going to be interesting.

I think part of SAF/Moyes is never having a regular starting 11.

I was also one of the first to state we will have to fight for a top 4 finish, back then I was slated to death for it. I am not very bothered with results this year, a top 4 finish is going to make me satisfied. What the worlds best managers achieve in such a year is develop a team-cohesion, a clear way of playing, every player looks to be in his absolute best position and the team is a unit. That is what I want to see during this season of course as early as possible.

We are one third in to the season and we really have seen none of the above so far. What we have seen is that he has solved the problems that has arisen, except of course the Rooney/RVP one. Personally I think no manager could get this team to work well if they were forced to play both Rooney and RVP as strikers.

 

[Amir]

Not having a consistent team would definitely hamper style. Football is best played when it's done automatically and without too much thinking and it will always be a bit of a problem if you keep making changes. However, I feel that while it would help a bit, it would just paper over the cracks. There's something fundamentally wrong with the team and the way we play, and I can't help but feel that even if we put out our best 11 consistently and add a quality midfielder, it still wouldn't look as good as it should.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Not having a consistent team would definitely hamper style. Football is best played when it's done automatically and without too much thinking and it will always be a bit of a problem if you keep making changes. However, I feel that while it would help a bit, it would just paper over the cracks. There's something fundamentally wrong with the team and the way we play, and I can't help but feel that even if we put out our best 11 consistently and add a quality midfielder, it still wouldn't look as good as it should.

That applies to every single part of life as well.

Football has always been quite far behind in this regard compared to most other sports. In ice-hockey, basket, american football, floor-ball etc every single play is practiced over and over and over. Of course in the matches you will never do a perfect play - but you will have practiced the limited numbers of deviations a huge amount as well so you will have spoken to the manager on how to play each one.

The opponents are of course always one step behind because they haven't practiced these plays.

I think Guardiola seems inspired by this, which is understandable as it improves performance hugely.

Like you say; our players looks like they are in the situation that arises the first time in their life. The ones off the ball even more so than the one with the ball. In the end nobody wants to leave their position to make a run because they have no clue if say RVP will take over the defensive role of a midfielder so their offensive run won't lead to a counter against them.

 

[darko]

The problem i see it that none of our players looks sharp and in form (bar Rooney that is).
I know that Moyes' team are supposedly super fit but to me we look over trained thus slow and lacking energy.

Arsenal game aside we did look lethargic all season.

That is an interesting point you bring. That was something that was said of him at Everton.

 

[Name Changed]

Five possibly seven guaranteed starters out and it's all Moyes fault that we lost.
How many other teams could cope with losing that many players and go to a hostile place like Cardiff. We've been very unfortunate in that all our injuries have come at once, adding to that our fringe players have gone into hiding with the likes of Cleverly and Hernandez offering nothing to the team yesterday.

It's only 5 players. Most of us say we have a very good squad. We should be able to cope without 5 players.

How many of those Cardiff players would get in the United team. I think 1.

 

[Ramshock]

These next two games are extremely critical. Lose both and the pressure will be intense on him.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's not just the number, though. We were without Carrick, our only top class midfielder. We were also without RVP who might've typically grabbed that goal we needed to edge it. Add Vidic too - who still looks very much like our best CB. And Rafael, without whom our right side is an offensive non-entity at times. So, yes - I think these absences should be factored in. But, of course, the fundamental problem is that we haven't hit any sort of consistent form as a team. We have enough players in the squad who could have been the decisive factor in that match: Chicharito and Adnan, for instance, both of whom had a bit of an off day.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

These next two games are extremely critical. Lose both and the pressure will be intense on him.

Aye - I'm afraid that's very true.

 

[Getsme]

It's only 5 players. Most of us say we have a very good squad. We should be able to cope without 5 players.

How many of those Cardiff players would get in the United team. I think 1.

If that's the way football worked we should only ever drop points when playing "top 4 teams"

 

[Massive Spanner]

Shame really, things were looking up after the Arsenal game but that Cardiff performance has brought things back a level for him again.