Bringing on Young angered me and taking off Hernandez. I'm glad he put out Rooeny though. The fecker frustrated me no end today.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Made some good decisions, just wish he'd taken off Fellaini before he'd been sent off.
Agreed, and I didn't think he was good enough when we signed him. Moyes doesn't seem to think Zaha is ready yet and Nani's performance v Stoke hasn't endeared him much to Moyes or the fans either.
Has done nothing wrong since the Southampton game, interested to see who he picks for our midfield against Arsenal on the weekend.
If Carrick, Rafael and Evans are injured (seems likely unfortunately) then the lineup almost picks itself.
RVP Rooney
Adnan Fellaini Cleverley Valencia
Evra Jones Vidic Smalling
DDG
Honestly, if Young could do some of the stuff Nani did against Stoke, even whilst playing rubbishly, I'd be happy as a penguin. My problem is that he doesn't try anything, and when he does he shows why...
Moyes might put Cleverley with Jones again and perhaps Nani over Valencia. Will get outplayed by Arsenal's midfield - would love to see Kagawa playing the role he did in the second half tonight but it's just not going to happen
Rafael out would be a big blow.
Yeah. A quality the Scottish are renowned for.
If they're all out then I'd like to see Jones for Fellaini as he did pretty well next to cleverley the few times he's played there, move Valencia to right back behind Nani or Kagawa (or have Kagawa and Januzaj switch sides) and then put Smalling next to Vidic in the middle. Don't think this is a good game for Fellaini at all, or anyone who is a slow thinker and slow on their feet really. Arsenal will run rings around him and around Smalling at rightback which is why I hope everyone is fit.
Had been accused once or twice for settling for a draw. He was very adventurous IMO tonight with RVP sub and Kagawa positional change.
Nearly paid off.
Nearly paid off.
They were a shocking side who wouldn't have scored had we played another 5 hours, but it was a good change agreed. Should have created more chances against that rabble.
I was slightly surprised to see him criticising the ref, who I thought had a very good game on the whole.
If we beat Arsenal we have left the bad start behind IMO. We looked very comfortable yesterday despite playing slow as hell (well, Sociedad were crap, but still), squad rotation seems to work now, the confidence is building and we are unbeaten in eight games now. Quarter finals of the League Cup, top of our Champions League group (need a draw in Leverkusen & a home win against Shakthar to top the group, should be doable), hopefully 20 points after this weekend... that would be alright. Also, some of the players are showing encouraging signs and the performance level is slowly improving.
I know it sounds a bit too rosy, but there you go... games like yesterday happened frequently under SAF (Champions League Group stages, away from home, grinding out a 1-0 win... not Moyes' fault that RVP & Hernandez missed sitters). It would be great to go into the international break with the confidence being sky-high after beating the (so far) convincing leaders.
I know it sounds a bit too rosy, but there you go... games like yesterday happened frequently under SAF (Champions League Group stages, away from home, grinding out a 1-0 win... not Moyes' fault that RVP & Hernandez missed sitters). It would be great to go into the international break with the confidence being sky-high after beating the (so far) convincing leaders.
Too many performances like last night, not enough like the first half against Fulham.
I wrote this in the Slooow tempo thread, it's apt in here as well:
To think people were worried about Moyes' lack of CL experience. What we saw yesterday is not new to us, we've seen it every season since ca 2005, let's call it the CQ-effect. And it's been rather succesfull I might add.
This was actually very far from a typical Everton approach. Moyes is learning the game and it seems like he's learning pretty fast.
Yes it was dull as hell but with all players available it might've looked different. I'm thinking Rafael and Evans, making it possible playing a higher line, and actually producing something down the right. Playing Carrick would be nice as well. Oh, and the young lad from whichever country makes things happen all the time, a CL debut should be on the cards at home to the ukranians.
And Nani, we need the Nani.
To think people were worried about Moyes' lack of CL experience. What we saw yesterday is not new to us, we've seen it every season since ca 2005, let's call it the CQ-effect. And it's been rather succesfull I might add.
This was actually very far from a typical Everton approach. Moyes is learning the game and it seems like he's learning pretty fast.
Yes it was dull as hell but with all players available it might've looked different. I'm thinking Rafael and Evans, making it possible playing a higher line, and actually producing something down the right. Playing Carrick would be nice as well. Oh, and the young lad from whichever country makes things happen all the time, a CL debut should be on the cards at home to the ukranians.
And Nani, we need the Nani.
If we beat Arsenal then overall his start to his tenure would venture into the acceptable-realm.
If we lose our league challenge is over by early november - which is crap.
Big game coming up, not least for his own peace of mind.
If we lose our league challenge is over by early november - which is crap.
Big game coming up, not least for his own peace of mind.
It's a huge game.
If there was ever a chance to put us somewhat back into the scheme of things, this is it.
Wasn't too much wrong with yesterday's performance apart from our inability to take our chances. It's not like Sociedad just fell off the turnip truck.
The main thing I was disappointed with was that we didn't recognise that Sociedad were there for the taking.
The game clearly changed for 10-15 minutes after RVP came on, but around 75 mins it went back to being very flat, very slow and very passive.
At that point I thought it was the perfect time to get Fellaini off who was consistently trying to get sent off by giving away dopey fouls and put Nani on.
The fact is that we never looked like conceding and 2 points gained would have basically seen us qualify, whereas one point lost would make no real difference to the group. It's these situations where I think we have changed the most - Fergie would have gone for it, whereas Moyes will take the point.
To be honest even the Young/RVP substitution made us more defensive, as Young is a more defensive player than Kagawa on the wing and Kagawa plays deeper in the middle than Rooney.
The game clearly changed for 10-15 minutes after RVP came on, but around 75 mins it went back to being very flat, very slow and very passive.
At that point I thought it was the perfect time to get Fellaini off who was consistently trying to get sent off by giving away dopey fouls and put Nani on.
The fact is that we never looked like conceding and 2 points gained would have basically seen us qualify, whereas one point lost would make no real difference to the group. It's these situations where I think we have changed the most - Fergie would have gone for it, whereas Moyes will take the point.
To be honest even the Young/RVP substitution made us more defensive, as Young is a more defensive player than Kagawa on the wing and Kagawa plays deeper in the middle than Rooney.
We've lost just 3 of our last 32 away trips in Europe (one of which was a dead rubber with the reserves in Turkey), which some people might not quite realise is absolutely fecking insane. And of those two meaningful defeats one was still a good result. In the 32 away matches before that (ie before the start of 07/08) we lost 15.
We have a way of playing away from home in Europe which is pretty much ingrained in the club's DNA at this point. And it works...except that one time in Basel.
Meh, we had plenty of those nights in Europe under Fergie.
Not a performance to set the world on fire but a point, away from home, with a big game at the weekend. It'll do.
Not a performance to set the world on fire but a point, away from home, with a big game at the weekend. It'll do.
The result was fine. It's not Moyes's fault either that our strikers had a severe off-night. Not much more he could have done, and we had plenty of these sorts of games under Fergie.
It begs the question. Why rest your best striker 5 full days before playing Arsenal knowing, that Arsenal also have a tough away midweek CL match against last years CL finalist. United were already missing Carrick, Rafael, due to injury. Sociedad are not that great, but United still need to be playing their best 11 to put these teams away especially away in Spain. Make the changes when the match is all but won, and all but win the group, then just rotate for rotation sake. Fergie learnt this harsh lesson 2 years ago.
I have always been an advocate of starting your best team and bringing them off when you are winning. It was my harshest criticism of Ferguson, that he often underestimated our opposition and tried to salvage a result 30 minutes from time.
What was more concerning though was that we were content to take the point, which on paper was acceptable, but in the context of our League table and the game it was a bizarre decision. Losing would have made no real difference to our group, whereas winning would've essentially qualified us. Now we have to draw or beat Leverkusen between two tricky away fixtures against Cardiff and Spurs. If we beat the group whipping boys last night, we could've played a second string on 27th and been up for those 2 games. Bringing Nani on (or hell even Anderson) for Fellaini was a no brainer for any offensive manager in that situation, unfortunately this season has shown when in doubt Moyes errs on the side of caution, which is frustrating given our history. This mindset has already cost us 2 points in the Champions League and arguably 3-4 (certainly 2) in the Premier League
If we beat Arsenal and then drop points at Cardiff or Spurs because of a grueling match in Germany, then it's status quo. If we don't beat Arsenal now we're in an even worse situation.
Exactly that, although we could have been a bit more adventurous, I feel Moyes is bedding in now and starting to get the best out of the squad, was always going to take time
Got to agree with this finneh. United missed a trick last night. It now means we need to play a full strength side in Germany sandwiched between those two tricky away games that are guaranteed to sap the energy from the legs.
It's where Moyes will earn his crust, rotating players for those 3 games.
We would have played a full strength side in Germany whatever happened, unless you think Moyes has no interest in winning the group?
I must be missing something here, Moyes was going on about missed chances in his interview as well.. As far as I could see we created one good chance, the Hernandez sitter. I'm not counting the penalty because the ref created that for us with a shocking decision.
RVP also hit the bar... on another night we would have won 1-2 nil and it would have gone exactly to plan.
Stuff seldom does.
Stuff seldom does.
Even if we lost against Leverkuson (by less than 2 goals) we'd have been top of the group, needing only to beat Shakhtar at home to finish top. We have now put ourselves in a position where we essentially need a point in Germany to top the group.
We'll need to play a full strength team to get a point, instead of a team like last night.
Well the penalty was a chance... plus of course the RvP miss and Valencia also wasted 1 or 2 great positions.
Just remembered that as I clicked post.
Still, over 90 minutes, against a poor team, we looked fairly clueless in attack.
We did, Rooney had a woeful night and as a result there was pretty much no link up play between the midfield and forwards, given that our wingers aren't exactly setting the world on fire it means we're limited.
Still could have won the game and didn't look like losing it at any stage.
Sometimes the goal just doesn't come.
This is very true and I would have liked to see Kagawa come through the middle a bit earlier, but I guess overall there isn't too much to complain about yesterday.
Earlier on in the season Moyes received much praise for what was viewed as a principled stance on Young's diving antics, i wonder what those people will make of the manager's words in the pre-match press conference today.
From the clip just aired on the radio it all sounded a bit daft, something along the lines of the referee's previous CL experience precluding it from being a dive in any way.
From the clip just aired on the radio it all sounded a bit daft, something along the lines of the referee's previous CL experience precluding it from being a dive in any way.
I think Moyes has privately made up his mind in regards to Young. I'm guessing this is a man-management job. I have little sympathy for Young and I'd see him out the door come January, but the guy is getting an absolute arse-tearing in the media, from the fans, and is clearly completely shot of any confidence whatsoever. It would only damage him further if Moyes publicly tears into him on top of that, hence the stupid answer today.
Sunday approaches, we will find a lot more out about Moyes in a few days, i have had this feeling we are building towards destroying someone. It may be this weekend
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