The entire market is inflated now.
Mourinho : "Transfer spend is not enough"
- Thread starter Maradona10
- Start date
The entire market is inflated now.
This sums Mourinho up, it was perisic or nothing, what does that say about his scouting choices? and his lack of open mind about other options, if he could not find other options other than perisic then we are in trouble. The fact he could not look to improve our fullbacks also and we still playing ashley young and valencia at fullbacks is a real head scratcher, along with mata, lingard and rashford out wide, that is partly why we look so ordinary at times going forward, the same problems we had last season
If these club owners at times don't want to play the game and pay these prices, give it to ppl that will, they have spent money but they got to back the manager in the future. They to blame 50% for why we are in this mess, clubs like city needed weak positions strengthened and they have done that, what we doing with our positions? playing young, valencia, jones, rojo, smalling, lingard, mata and rashford in 5 positions we are weak at, RB, CB, LB, LW and RW, AM, its so obvious these positions need better players its a running theme since 2009. We may not have DDG much anymore to bail us out, god help if we have romero next year between the sticks
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I’ve snipped out a lot of knee jerky personal abuse, but this heavily cut quote is interesting.
United does seem to have an unhealthy reliance on dealing with certain agents. I wonder how much of our transfer policy is dictated by them, and whether their level of influence is greater than in other clubs?
I’ve searched through the Transfer Forum but can’t find any discussion on this subject. Is it off limits?
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Nah, the market is totally rational right now and no one else is overpaying for anybody at all, anywhere. Its only 1 transfer isn't it.
Ha ha you're unbelievable.
Beginning of the season you reckoned our attack was only a Mané away from winning us the league.
Now it's only Mourinho's incredible ability that's kept us within 15 points of top spot.
I look at the Liverpool transfers and you can see how and where they fit in. You can see that the obvious problem areas are being resolved. There is a foundation set and a fluid system that they are walking into. For us, none of that hardly applies. Us as fans can't even decide what our immediate need is. Heck, we can't even decíde where Mr Perisic might have played.
We definitely need a DoF to sort this out.
You're characterizing the entire market using this one transfer. Presumably to defend Mourinho. Can't think of any other reason you'd employ such poor logic.
Why not use Harry Maguires transfer rather than Van Dijks?
Yes it is but it's not Van Dijk level inflated. They've only just bought Salah for half that amount.
This is a club spending a silly amount because it presumably knows it's got a huge amount coming in(Coutinho).
Someone tell me again net spend doesn't matter.
They wanted to spend +60m on VVD earlier during last summer as well and they were refusing to sell Coutinho at the same time.
Net spend doesn't matter.
Net spend doesn't matter wage bill is the best measure of a club's spending power
Its no doubt about it, Conte and Pep both got title challenging squads. Mourinho did not.
Okay let's use Walker, Mendy, Danilo, Xhaka, Rudiger, Drinkwater. All players costing £30m at least, and some of those are squad players at their current clubs. Note, I'll use examples from top clubs. Like Jose said, prices are different for bigger teams.
Okay originally I said it with a bit of hyperbole. But the implied point was that you don't get what you used to for the same money now. 5-6 years ago £30m buys you one of the more expensive players in your squad and an undoubted starter. Now £30m players sit on the bench and rotate.
We have spent a lot and we (LVG and Moyes mostly) haven't spent well. But we haven't spent as much as City. And it isn't a surprise that since Chelsea were taken over, most of the time the teams that spent the most won the league. Only Fergie really stopped that happening, and Fergie was special.
Poor, defeatist, mentality from Mourinho. He isn't able to challenge for the title so goes on to blame the lack of transfer money spent, when we have spent much more than everyone other than City recently.
One thing I would say is that it's definitely wrong to say someone who won the UCL with Porto and Inter a 'chequebook manager'. But, we have to consider that when it came to the league titles, Inter had by far the best squad in Italy (winning the previous two seasons before Mourinho came) and Porto's squad was also pretty good. Therefore, he already had the ingredients to win the titles without having to spend a lot of money with those teams. The same cannot be said about his title wins at Chelsea and Madrid, for both he had to spend money, in addition to the great squad he had.
When it came to the Champions League though, he won those titles playing his style of football, which was defensive and based on counterattacking. He isn't allowed to play the same style at United, and wasn't at Madrid, due to reasons such as expectations from fans and also other teams playing defensively against him. If he can't resort to his familiar style of play, then you can't expect him to win trophies playing an attacking brand of football without him having to spend a lot of money to get quality attacking players.
But the same can really be said about most managers out there today. Pep again is a manager who needs the best players to play his brand of football, which looks fantastic when he can get those required players. This is also why Poch gets a lot of respect though he hasn't won anything (and I think it's foolish to deride him just because he hasn't won a trophy, despite how he's lifted Tottenham to where they are), he's managed to challenge for titles without having to spend the lavish amounts his opposing managers have had to.
We can't expect Mourinho to play the attacking brand of football we want and have him do it without an unlimited budget. That's not his natural coaching style. He is one of the best managers out there but isn't 'special' anymore. If we want to keep him then we need to give him the budget he requires.
One thing I would say is that it's definitely wrong to say someone who won the UCL with Porto and Inter a 'chequebook manager'. But, we have to consider that when it came to the league titles, Inter had by far the best squad in Italy (winning the previous two seasons before Mourinho came) and Porto's squad was also pretty good. Therefore, he already had the ingredients to win the titles without having to spend a lot of money with those teams. The same cannot be said about his title wins at Chelsea and Madrid, for both he had to spend money, in addition to the great squad he had.
When it came to the Champions League though, he won those titles playing his style of football, which was defensive and based on counterattacking. He isn't allowed to play the same style at United, and wasn't at Madrid, due to reasons such as expectations from fans and also other teams playing defensively against him. If he can't resort to his familiar style of play, then you can't expect him to win trophies playing an attacking brand of football without him having to spend a lot of money to get quality attacking players.
But the same can really be said about most managers out there today. Pep again is a manager who needs the best players to play his brand of football, which looks fantastic when he can get those required players. This is also why Poch gets a lot of respect though he hasn't won anything (and I think it's foolish to deride him just because he hasn't won a trophy, despite how he's lifted Tottenham to where they are), he's managed to challenge for titles without having to spend the lavish amounts his opposing managers have had to.
We can't expect Mourinho to play the attacking brand of football we want and have him do it without an unlimited budget. That's not his natural coaching style. He is one of the best managers out there but isn't 'special' anymore. If we want to keep him then we need to give him the budget he requires.
Because they aren't great players?
Made himself look like a right prat saying that, but he's done what he always does. Deflect attention away from the actual game and a poor performance.
The last window was underwhelming. Lukaku, Lindelof and Matic was never going to be enough. Needed a world class attacker and never got one.
Yep. Lukaku replaced Zlatan in attack. But last year it was clear we didn’t have enough going forward, so we stayed the same basically.
City with an embarrassment of riches going forward still added Silva and were aiming for Sanchez.
Dobbs I’ve never seen you make a point on this forum. All you seem to do is try and undermine any poster who tries to defend the manager.
I made one post about 3mnths ago where I say a top quality LB and a top quality attacker and we could win the league and here you are bringing it up for the 2nd time today.
Why don’t you give us one of your opinions? What would you do? What do we need? What has Jose done to deserve the treatment he gets on here? Who do you want instead?
He's right that 300mil won't be enough to topple this version of City but it should at least be enough to play cohesive quality football against the likes of Burnley and Leicester. We still can't complete basic passing moves
My point is Jose gets criticised constantly yet here we are 2nd in the table and through to the next round of the CL just 18mnths into his tenure
I’ve said it time and time again, if people have a problem with the manager, fine. If people have a problem with certain players, fine. If people don’t like our style, fine.
What annoys me is the constant references to what is in effect a pretty ordinary sum of money to support criticism of the manager because at a time when ONE relatively unproven CB costs £75m it’s not relevant
Pretty much. We needed 2 attackers on top of what we had last season.
And we didn't get anyone, because Lukaku essentially replaced Ibra.
This is truly the most infuriating point of our spending. There are few teams that spend more than we do in the transfermarket yet our football is still largely shit.
I agree and you could go even further....
The problem is there are fans on here who have been saying this for years. Years ago, around the time we sold Ronaldo, I used to phone my Dad on the way home from games (MCR back to Hull at the time) and we both used to say despite us being in the middle of one of our best periods in the clubs history that the writing was on the wall and the rot had set in.
Now, when you point to this period, people try and tell you it’s not relevant - well of course it is! City have had a plan for 10yrs whilst we have penny pinched and made poor decisions
And just like that, Liverpool buy VVD for £75M.
Surely José’s City buying defenders for the price of strikers comment influenced and sped up this transfer. No doubt about it in my mind and he’s not wrong saying what he said, just the cold hard truth.
Surely José’s City buying defenders for the price of strikers comment influenced and sped up this transfer. No doubt about it in my mind and he’s not wrong saying what he said, just the cold hard truth.
I thought we all said we needed to rectify some positions in our team by replacing players with better quality.Then mourinho said exactly the same thing and everyone is up in arms.should he have said we are good enough and don't need to spend much or at all?...
now we have Liverpool basically buying a CB that has done nothing in the game for the price of lukaku and we are here saying mourinho shouldn't demand more from the board.
now we have Liverpool basically buying a CB that has done nothing in the game for the price of lukaku and we are here saying mourinho shouldn't demand more from the board.
I don't disagree. But given that both problem A and problem B are most likely intractable (in the short term), the most logical course of action for United would be to spend lots of money (which the club has plenty of) on new players until such time as scouting networks can be improved and/or an obvious managerial upgrade on Mourinho can be identified.
Since City's arab money they spend :
08/09 157,35 Mill €
09/10 147,30 Mill €
10/11 182,45 Mill €
11/12 87,05 Mill €
12/13 61,95 Mill €
13/14 116,00 Mill €
14/15 88,30 Mill €
15/16 212,90 Mill €
16/17 213,00 Mill €
17/18 249,30 Mill €
Meanwhile United spend :
08/09 45,25 Mill €
09/10 27,40 Mill €
10/11 29,30 Mill €
11/12 62,30 Mill €
12/13 76,45 Mill €
13/14 77,13 Mill €
14/15 195,35 Mill €
15/16 156,00 Mill €
16/17 185,00 Mill €
17/18 164,40 Mill €
The difference is clear to see, they spent big from a get go, and they had a clear direction with Txiki as DoF and Soriano as CEO managed their club. They have a model to go with Pep as their goal. We solely manage by Fergie from top to bottom football wise, so in another word this was his club his idea. After he gone, we had no direction. Woodward left alone and he doing a good job by backing evey manager we had.
Money well spend but not spend wisely especially at LVG's stint here. He brought ADM for a whopping 75m only to sell him next year. We was in stage of under invesment in Fergie latter years and it shown today. Post-Ronaldo we dont recruited good enough. There was a time when Fergie reluctant to pay agent fee for Hazard and Moura, i think it was a mistake. Mourinho doing a good job so far with his transfer but he need to be more ruthless about average players we have. If he want his team, surely there will be many offload already but he cant do that. He has to work with what he have and there's the problem lies. Result never lie, we are better with him but we can be more than this.
In this era of no value in market, we have to spend big just like others big clubs.
08/09 157,35 Mill €
09/10 147,30 Mill €
10/11 182,45 Mill €
11/12 87,05 Mill €
12/13 61,95 Mill €
13/14 116,00 Mill €
14/15 88,30 Mill €
15/16 212,90 Mill €
16/17 213,00 Mill €
17/18 249,30 Mill €
Meanwhile United spend :
08/09 45,25 Mill €
09/10 27,40 Mill €
10/11 29,30 Mill €
11/12 62,30 Mill €
12/13 76,45 Mill €
13/14 77,13 Mill €
14/15 195,35 Mill €
15/16 156,00 Mill €
16/17 185,00 Mill €
17/18 164,40 Mill €
The difference is clear to see, they spent big from a get go, and they had a clear direction with Txiki as DoF and Soriano as CEO managed their club. They have a model to go with Pep as their goal. We solely manage by Fergie from top to bottom football wise, so in another word this was his club his idea. After he gone, we had no direction. Woodward left alone and he doing a good job by backing evey manager we had.
Money well spend but not spend wisely especially at LVG's stint here. He brought ADM for a whopping 75m only to sell him next year. We was in stage of under invesment in Fergie latter years and it shown today. Post-Ronaldo we dont recruited good enough. There was a time when Fergie reluctant to pay agent fee for Hazard and Moura, i think it was a mistake. Mourinho doing a good job so far with his transfer but he need to be more ruthless about average players we have. If he want his team, surely there will be many offload already but he cant do that. He has to work with what he have and there's the problem lies. Result never lie, we are better with him but we can be more than this.
In this era of no value in market, we have to spend big just like others big clubs.
I bore the forums with my opinions all the time. Please don't try to distract with straw men.
If you feel undermined that's down to your own posts Lentwood. Your current posts are a blatant contradiction of your previous.
The reason I've laboured this point is that the forum should be a place for honest, straightforward, chat about football, free of agenda.
You're not totally wrong but I would argue a few points.
Ronaldo couldn't be 'replaced', he is one of the few players that you simply could not just buy another player to plug the gap I'll defend Valencia; he was our player of the year two seasons in a row from the wing wasn't he? And he then went on to be an extremely reliable full-back. Also I'm 99% sure that we went in for Hazard and he simply chose Chelsea above us, but with Aguero I don't recall us being in for him but even still Ronaldo was playing from wide/free role so why would we replace him with a #9 when we already had several out and out forwards in the squad?
Also I wouldn't call Rashford great, people are going far too overboard with him. He's a talented young player but he is not in the same bracket as Pogba/De Gea.
We spend enough but we spend it poorly. That's been a running theme with us for god knows how many years now. It actually makes me angry how much money we've flushed down the toilet in recent years. Hundreds of millions in fees and wages wasted on Mkhitaryan, Di Maria, Falcao, Schneiderlin, Depay, Lindelof, Fellaini, Schweinsteiger, Darmian, Nick Powell, Obertan, Kagawa, Zaha, Bebe... We could have got Salah, Mane, De Bryune, Silva, and Hazard for less than all of those turds and had change left over. Terrible scouting and terrible management from everyone involved.
I fear we will be in a battle for 4th place come May the way we’re going.
Mourinho is clearly frustrated with trying to compete against a club run by an oil rich state when his employers are the Glazers and Woodward,I think he would jump at the chance of taking the PSG job so he can feel he would be competing with Pep on a level playing field in every respect,rightly he has called out Utds powerbrokers and he wants these guys to know he his in the business of winning trophies and titles not lining the pockets of the owners!!
As for the Glazers themselves we can only hope that they are now starting to get ruffled and majorly alarmed by spiralling,over inflated transfer fees and Mourinho calling them out enough to maybe start taking serious stock of where things might be heading as clearly those particular financial issues will not be in there interests unless as we suspect they are more than happy to just be in the top 4 each season!!!
As for the Glazers themselves we can only hope that they are now starting to get ruffled and majorly alarmed by spiralling,over inflated transfer fees and Mourinho calling them out enough to maybe start taking serious stock of where things might be heading as clearly those particular financial issues will not be in there interests unless as we suspect they are more than happy to just be in the top 4 each season!!!
Good point. People forget this. Fletcher and Hargreaves as well. And Anderson, at a pinch!
Wenger's reaction to Jose's comments were amusing; "I have learnt to deal with it (not spending as much as other sides)". Yeah Arsene, you dealt with it by not competing.
We're already in that battle. I expect places 2nd to 6th to change hands a lot between now and May.