Mourinho tells Paul Pogba he'll never captain Manchester United again

Sayros said:
I have to think the players will side with Pogba over Mourinho, who has not been a good leader for them. Whether it's the way he's criticized them, antagonized them, trashed them in Luke Shaw and Martial's case, his whole man-management, including the inclusion of Sanchez has been absolutely dreadful. If anyone actually believes Mourinho is gaining control of the dressing room by going against one of his best and more popular player who basically said what they're all thinking, including the fans, I think they'll be surprised over the next few weeks. I can't help but feel Mourinho will implode this dressing room and then get sacked regardless, with or without Pogba still in the team. The fact that they go out there every game and look completely clueless to me is a bigger sign than anything coming out of the media that they are tuning out Mourinho, he has already lost them IMO and I feel he will continue to lose them more with this Pogba episode.

I can't see how the situation improves from here on out, even if they get rid of Pogba it will only make this team far worse than it already is, with more pressure on Mourinho and less scapegoats in the absence of Pogba. It's going to be a spectacle, and I'm legitimately sorry that a club like United is going through that, but it's pretty fascinating to follow.
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This is spot on. It's the same rubbish as at Chelsea and Real, but they were wise enough not to sell Ramos, Hazard etc.
 
EB100 said:
No evidence Mourinho has lost some in the dressing room?

http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchest...gry-and-frustrated-with-jose-mourinho-sources

If you think Jose behavior is “immaterial” and his history says nothing, you may be in for a surprise this season!

By the time Jose left Chelsea, Hazard and co. were losing almost every game. After he left, they started winning.
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If there's any truth to that (not sure I'd throw my lot in with Ogden, Dawson and Gab Marcotti on ESPN), it's even more reason to nip in the bud the kind of shite Pogba has recently been spouting, before all the players start thinking it's perfectly okay to down tools and make a mockery of the club they play for and the fans who support it, just because they don't like the guy in charge.

And no, this doesn't justify them criticising the manager in public, either; that's never okay, no matter what you think of him.
 
Infra-red said:
And no, this doesn't justify them criticising the manager in public, either; that's never okay, no matter what you think of him.
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If they think he's damaging the team - and their careers - what can they do? Go talk to Woodward? Stay silent and hope Mourinho gets fired?

It's a tough spot.
 
Amir said:
If they think he's damaging the team - and their careers - what can they do? Go talk to Woodward? Stay silent and hope Mourinho gets fired?

It's a tough spot.
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Tell Ed and let him take the decision.
 
Odd, as earlier it was reported that the players were in support of his decision to take the vice captaincy off Pogba.

Both claims came from the infamous "sources" who, as we all know, are never made up nor wrong, even when their stories completely contradict each other.

Definitely ignore the players who have come out in support of Jose though, some of who have apparently been mistreated by him.

Also, anyone find it odd how some keep claiming they are feed up with this nonsense, while simultaneously lapping up all of this nonsense? Weird.
 
Amir said:
If they think he's damaging the team - and their careers - what can they do? Go talk to Woodward? Stay silent and hope Mourinho gets fired?

It's a tough spot.
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Speak to Mourinho face-to-face. Failing that, speak to higher authorities at the club. Their final option is to leave.

In practice, if Mourinho loses a critical mass of the dressing room, the club will likely take the view that replacing him is easier than replacing all of them. Should it come to that, we should be seriously concerned about the precedent we'd be setting and the toxic atmosphere Mourinho's successor would inevitably encounter the first time he makes a decision a few of them don't like.
 
Infra-red said:
If there's any truth to that (not sure I'd throw my lot in with Ogden, Dawson and Gab Marcotti on ESPN), it's even more reason to nip in the bud the kind of shite Pogba has recently been spouting, before all the players start thinking it's perfectly okay to down tools and make a mockery of the club they play for and the fans who support it, just because they don't like the guy in charge.

And no, this doesn't justify them criticising the manager in public, either; that's never okay, no matter what you think of him.
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You’d be right if managers were kings. But they aren’t.
 
el3mel said:
Tell Ed and let him take the decision.
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Remember when Ranieri was struggling at Leicester following their title win and there were rumours that the players had voiced their dissatisfaction to senior management? Carragher and Neville were scathing when they said the players should just shut up and take responsibility for the results.
 
Amir said:
What if it was already done and nothing happened? You'd figure Pogba has voiced his concern in the summer when he asked to leave.
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Then put your head down then and work for fecking the team and let what happens happens I believe ? Since when bitching in the media help anyone ? It sure as hell does't help the players nor the team. It's not your job. You expressed your opinion to CEO. He's responsible for the decision, not you as a player.

Let's not act like Pogba cares that much about the club that he is willing to play the hero role and represent the players by bitching in the media about the manager they don't like. He left us once for himself under Fergie and was/is aiming for a move again, and did nothing for us so far on the pitch.

It's simply unacceptable for any player to undermine his manager in public whatever shite this manager is. I can't believe some are defending this. You can agree with his view or want Mourinho out, that doesn't mean bitching in the media is good.
 
Infra-red said:
In answer to your first question, yep. He's the manager, the boss. If the player doesn't like it he can express his dissatisfaction to the manager's face, or to higher authorities at the club, or he can leave.

Regarding the rest of your post, Mourinho has generally been very complimentary about Pogba in public, defending his transfer fee, praising his performances and hailing him as a future star. Mourinho's comments in the summer about Pogba's performances at the World Cup were hardly controversial and certainly do not warrant the kind of behaviour we've seen from Pogba in recent weeks (eg post-Wolves).



Answered above.
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There is no point in discussing this any longer. But I'll tell you this, you seem to have a very outdated view of the manager position in our club, you still seem to think any manager of us should be treated like Sir Alex Ferguson was.
 
Amir said:
Well, Pogba got to the stage where he asked to leave. Wasn't allowed to. What now?
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He could hand in a formal transfer request.

He won't, that will cost him money. Instead, he and his agent will be as disruptive as possible until he gets the move to Spain he's reportedly been planning for 2.5 years.
 
redIndianDevil said:
There is no point in discussing this any longer. But I'll tell you this, you seem to have a very outdated view of the manager position in our club, you still seem to think any manager of us should be treated like Sir Alex Ferguson was.
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Indeed they should. You presumably would rather Paul Pogba takes over responsibility for managing the team?

Edit Incidentally, I'm actually in favour of devolving some of the power Ferguson had (eg I have no problem at all with the 'Head Coach' model, with transfers devolved to a Director of Football - but even in that scenario, players criticising their boss publicly, absolutely has to be a no-go, and I'd expect the club to side with the coach against any player who was seeking to undermine his authority.
 
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Infra-red said:
He could hand in a formal transfer request.

He won't, that will cost him money. Instead, he and his agent will be as disruptive as possible until he gets the move to Spain he's reportedly been planning for 2.5 years.
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I don't know why people get so excited about 'formal' transfer requests. United will say no and nothing changes.
 
Amir said:
I don't know why people get so excited about 'formal' transfer requests. United will say no and nothing changes.
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Then he'll run his contract down. Nowhere in this scenario is the player suddenly permitted to talk shite in public about his manager.
 
We'd likely be in the lower half of the table had Pogba not been responsible for 6 goals in 7. He'd even have a better record if the front 3 got their act together. People think due to his laid back demeanour he's not trying.
 
We as fans have been singing attack, attack, attack for years. If Pogba saying something similar hurts Mourinho's ego, then tough! Do something about the issue. The fans have been pretty patient for over 2 seasons and the club has supported him with massive funds. No excuses or deflection of blame.

Don't expect all footballers to be robots and bow to your previous trophy count or your title as the manager.
 
You can understand if Mourinho fell out with one player. However, falling out with players has been a recurring theme during his tenure. Shaw, Smalling, Pogba, Bailly, Martial, Jones. There are also recent rumours circulating of a fallout with Rashford.
 
Sultan said:
We'd likely be in the lower half of the table had Pogba not been responsible for 6 goals in 7. He'd even have a better record if the front 3 got their act together. People think due to his laid back demeanour he's not trying.
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But we wouldn't be playing with 10 men if you take out Paul Pogba from the team. You can't say it's definitive that we'd score 1 goal instead of 7, who is to say we wouldn't have scored more?
 
Sultan said:
You can understand if Mourinho fell out with one player. However, falling out with players has been a recurring theme during his tenure. Shaw, Smalling, Pogba, Bailly, Martial, Jones. There are also recent rumours circulating of a fallout with Rashford.
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4 of those picked up their form and grew as players though.
I also think Martial will come good.
 
Is Pogba is contradicting his coach/manager not something similar to what Mourinho has been doing to Woodward/Club during the summer?
 
Slevs said:
But we wouldn't be playing with 10 men if you take out Paul Pogba from the team. You can't say it's definitive that we'd score 1 goal instead of 7, who is to say we wouldn't have scored more?
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Check the teams' record when Pogba doesn't play. If it's better without him in the team I'll concede my point.
 
cyberman said:
4 of those picked up their form and grew as players though.
I also think Martial will come good.
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Only Shaw has improved. What's to say he was restricted by his injuries and now fulfilling his vast potential. He's also in the final year of his contract. He has basically no choice but to bust a gut. Martial was already good before Mourinho came.
 
Sultan said:
We as fans have been singing attack, attack, attack for years. If Pogba saying something similar hurts Mourinho's ego, then tough! Do something about the issue. The fans have been pretty patient for over 2 seasons and the club has supported him with massive funds. No excuses or deflection of blame.

Don't expect all footballers to be robots and bow to your previous trophy count or your title as the manager.
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Well that's a bogus argument, Sultan. The robots thing is pretty much what Zlatan levelled at Barcelona and Pep when he made his escape yet he seemed a big fan of the way Mourinho's operates. Nobody could accuse his Chelsea or Inter teams of lacking personality. The trick is deploying your disparate personalities in a way that serves the collective. Do you think Pogba is serving the collective?
I'm not happy with either one of them. Anybody painting this as Good vs Evil from either perspective is plain wrong. The club is the priority. Both are serving their own image. I've a pain in my hoop listening to both of them.
 
Smalling and Herrera had their best seasons under LvG. I haven't seen any improvement in the players he inherited. Martial and Rashford should have improved massively due being a few years older.
 
Infra-red said:
Then he'll run his contract down. Nowhere in this scenario is the player suddenly permitted to talk shite in public about his manager.
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With the option United have, that could be until 2022. A player only has one career, short, and his prime is even shorter. If you think you have a boss who is ruining your career, would your really shut up, do nothing and just accept that? Or is that expected only of football players?
 
Sultan said:
Smalling and Herrera had their best seasons under LvG. I haven't seen any improvement in the players he inherited. Martial and Rashford should have improved massively due being a few years older.
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Maybe they're just not very good?

Or maybe they are and Mourinho is doing a poor job. He will probably be fired sometime between now and May next year. Not sure what any if this has to do with the topic of this thread, though.
 
Still ill said:
Well that's a bogus argument, Sultan. The robots thing is pretty much what Zlatan levelled at Barcelona and Pep when he made his escape yet he seemed a big fan of the way Mourinho's operates. Nobody could accuse his Chelsea or Inter teams of lacking personality. The trick is deploying your disparate personalities in a way that serves the collective. Do you think Pogba is serving the collective?
I'm not happy with either one of them. Anybody painting this as Good vs Evil from either perspective is plain wrong. The club is the priority. Both are serving their own image. I've a pain in my hoop listening to both of them.
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I'm not saying Pogba is a saint. Chelsea teams did lack attacking flair. If I remember correctly the style of football was being quoted as the reasons he was sacked during his first stint.

He might be a great coach but his personality and man management are short of what is required at a club of United's stature. Bobby Charlton was correct in his opposition. Unfortunately, United were desperate to appoint anyone after LvG. Anyone was an improvement after that excuse of a manager.
 
Infra-red said:
Indeed they should. You presumably would rather Paul Pogba takes over responsibility for managing the team?
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It just doesn't work that way. A manager has to earn that power. Even Fergie of 1986 or even 1996 didn't have the power he would later.
 
Amir said:
With the option United have, that could be until 2022. A player only has one career, short, and his prime is even shorter. If you think you have a boss who is ruining your career, would your really shut up, do nothing and just accept that? Or is that expected only of football players?
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More than a million quid a month for kicking balls on a lawn. Poor him.

Don't worry, he'll get his move to Spain sooner or later. My guess is January.
 
Amir said:
It just doesn't work that way. A manager has to earn that power. Even Fergie of 1986 or even 1996 didn't have the power he would later.
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It's earned by virtue of the fact he is the manager. It's a hierarchy and Pogba is below the manager in it. It has to be that way or the lunatics take over the asylum.
 
Infra-red said:
Maybe they're just not very good?

Or maybe they are and Mourinho is doing a poor job. He will probably be fired sometime between now and May next year. Not sure what any if this has to do with the topic of this thread, though.
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Someone above said he'd improved players. I was replying to their question.
 
The argument wasn't whether his teams lack flair. They generally do. It was whether he cultivated a culture of robots content to do their managers bidding while subjugating their own personalities. I'm just suggesting that he admires players with personality and character but simply demands that this personality is used for the collective good. This is clearly not how Pog is using his personality.
 
Sultan said:
I'm not saying Pogba is a saint. Chelsea teams did lack attacking flair. If I remember correctly the style of football was being quoted as the reasons he was sacked during his first stint.

He might be a great coach but his personality and man management are short of what is required at a club of United's stature. Bobby Charlton was correct in his opposition. Unfortunately, United were desperate to appoint anyone after LvG. Anyone was an improvement after that excuse of a manager.
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All of that is most likely correct.
 
Infra-red said:
It's earned by virtue of the fact he is the manager. It's a hierarchy and Pogba is below the manager in it. It has to be that way or the lunatics take over the asylum.
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Well, the Club/Woodward is Mourinho's boss. He's been undermining his authority all Summer.
 
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