So we shouldn't sack Jose because Pogba has been talking, even though he should be sacked for his shite football over the past 2 years. Just so we don't set a precedent and send the wrong message?
Mourinho tells Paul Pogba he'll never captain Manchester United again
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So we shouldn't sack Jose because Pogba has been talking, even though he should be sacked for his shite football over the past 2 years. Just so we don't set a precedent and send the wrong message?
He can't do anything they will say. Klopp and Pep had better football heritage, according to Mourinho.
Back in the day, no-one would have said a word about SAF and if they did, they'd be shipped out immediately - happened to RvN, Beckham and others for lesser things.
Right now, we're a complete circus - on the pitch and off. Both Pogba and Mourinho can get lost, to be honest.
Because SAF was objectively the biggest asset of the club, not because he was the manager but because of his abilities and value.
To think this week's circus was sparked by a press officer wrongly telling the manager some players were mocking the result. It's true that every workplace has that bootlicker who has no qualms about getting people in trouble to curry favour from the boss
No, not really. But then the same question could be asked of those wanting Mourinho out. Do you trust Woodward to do a good job replacing him?
Personally, I can see the argument for getting rid of both Pogba and Mourinho (in that order) and then drastically reducing Woodward's influence on football matters, with the appointment of a proper Director of Football.
And everything he believed in and stood for, over 25+ years, was etched into our club. It's why so many support this brilliant football club. And, now you've the last few years were, quite literally, everything is being torn apart.
I remember that meme which depicted the manner in which Moyes destroyed the legacy left behind by SAF - it was funny back then. The truth is, Mourinho included, our last 3 managers have all contributed towards the destruction of this club.
Taken us from 5th, to 2nd in 2 seasons, winning 2 pieces of silverware and reaching another final in the process.
He's also overhauled areas of the team is United fans have been crying out for but he still has work to do. He's made mistakes, it hasn't been pretty at times, far from, but we have done better in his two years than most clubs.
Yep. But, will he take us any further or has he taken us as far as he can? Looks very much like the latter to me. I think it would be ignorant for people to claim Jose has done nothing for us, we're better than when he took us over, but parting ways now looks in the best interest of both parties. It's time.
Got us 2nd place (highest league placing since SAF left), won 2 trophies (more than the previous 2 managers combined).
Does second place mean anything if the next season you finish outside top 4?
I wouldnt play him again, never mind make him captain
I'm not sure about the point that you are trying to make but I will say this. We were never going to replace SAF with someone like SAF because that person doesn't exist in football, we needed to adapt and we need to stop with the SAF nostalgia when it comes to practical issues, his legacy can be followed differently but in order to do that we need to start by putting the club first, we need a hierarchy that understand what SAF and Sir Matt Busby legacy actually is.
To me it's simple, United is about team spirit, character, resilience, creativity and enthusiasm. That's the legacy of our great managers, it's not about the set up or inadequate organizational structures.
We were in the title race last season?
Just like his first season, and this season we were already OUT of the title race by DECEMBER.
Get your facts right.
About that... We haven't, seeing as it's September, 1 month into the 10 month season. We've started badly, but there is plenty of time to recover.
I dont think it is, yet. I would give him more time.
Destruction? We're a mess but destruction, really? If anything Woodward himself helped in creating a mess we're in now.
Point is, we shouldn't be one of those clubs you mentioned in the post I quoted initially.
We were in the title race last season?
Just like his first season, and this season we were already OUT of the title race by DECEMBER.
Get your facts right.
After 20 games we were 15 points away from City and 1 away from Chelsea. After 25 games we were 15 points away from City 3 from Liverpool. After 30 games we were 16 points away from City and 4 from Tottenham. After 35 games we were 16 points away from City and 3 from Liverpool.
We were in a title race but not with City.
Race for 2nd place or 4th?
2nd place title that is.
Pogba out, Savic in. Made a clear statement that no one is bigger than the club and everyone is replaceable.
Rather play Herrera and Fellaini.
The points total we ended on would have won the title in something like 12 of the last 15 seasons. City broke all kinds of records last season, this glossing over of our effort last year feels a lot like the re-writing of history to suit people's agenda's to be honest.We were in the title race last season?
Just like his first season, and this season we were already OUT of the title race by DECEMBER.
Get your facts right.
We all like a brand new shiny player. Herrera and Fellani aren't PL starters for a team like Manchester United.
And neither is Savic. What has Pogba ever done or said to prove that he thinks he his bigger that the club?
Don't take my word for it, why not listen to someone who knows more than both of us do?
Original argument(which was a lie) = "We were in the title race"
My original rebuttal(which was a fact) = "No we weren't, in fact we've never even come close any of the seasons with Mourinho in charge"
Your argument/reply = a bunch of non sequitur.
Nevermind the points total and all thosr facts that we'd have won it with that points total in previous seasons. People didn't feel we were in a title race so that's settled. Feelings>facts+previous records
Every time someone posts Carragher's take on this situation I notice a new thing that's wrong with his argument. This time it was the idea that there's no point in United sacking Mournho because player's perform the same no matter who their manager is.
What does that mean in practical terms?
In this new football paradigm, are players allowed to criticise their managers in public and have them fired if they don't like them? Are managers allowed to tell their players what to do, where to play, drop them from the team etc?
Exactly how will implementing this new approach at United, benefit us.
Why shouldn't we? It doesn't go against SAF's legacy, United doesn't have a history of not sacking managers. In fact SAF was allegedly appointed with the mandate to change the club culture with players that were allegedly less than professional, Atkinson's overall results weren't bad and it was still relatively early in the season.
The thing is we need be objective, logical and ask ourselves who from the manager and the players is the best asset for the club with the club history and philosophy in mind. It doesn't mean that the players are going to survive the next manager, it just means that a point in time you evaluate your assets and eliminate the ones you rate the least with a short, mid and long term view. The evaluation never stops and from the club's perspective it can't be influenced by status, it's solely based on an objective evaluation of the asset in relation to the club otherwise you put the manager above the club.
Are you actually Jamie Carragher? You've posted this fecking video in three different threads.
Thats wrong. It was because he was the manager and biggest asset. He commanded respect and he was doing a fantastic job with the training and was coming off with the results. Mourinho was a good manager elsewhere and now hes not. Therein lies the problem. You wouldnt here a peep of discontent if we were winning games and big trophies regularly.
You are mixing things up and creating scenarios that have nothing to do with what I said but I would never allow a player to criticize the club or an other employee without first asking for an explanation and then eventually sanctioning the player. But it has nothing to do with choosing the manager over the player, it's about not allowing potential disarray, I would have sanctioned Mourinho for his comments too.
Maybe??? It's worth a watch, people should see it.
So the managers that the club sacked instead of player weren't managers?
I don't think so. SAF sent away a lot of star players in early 1990s, before he had not won anything with us, when he was not the "biggest asset of the club".
It is a management decision that the owners should make. Do they want to change manager every 2-3 years? Sure, why not? Many clubs do this. Then sack Mourinho.
Do the want the manager to be the boss? Then keep Mourinho and discipline or sell Pogba. And make sure that all players know that the manager is the boss.
Sad really....when you knew they'd be problems when Pogba lost the ball on Saturday despite being by far our best player. In fact I knew when they had the row during the Spurs game. With SAF it would've been a case of a bollocking and a fine, then it would have been forgotten the next day.
Jose can't do that has to keep having digs in the press, now Pogba too. It's becoming a farce.
Jose can't do that has to keep having digs in the press, now Pogba too. It's becoming a farce.
I don't understand his absolute certainty that we would not see a different Paul Pogba under a diffrent manager and he "can assure us that we won't". For starters absolutely nobody can assure or guarantee anyone of that!.Secondly from a logical viewpoint, the idea that switching from a fundamentally defensive and rigid tactical set up, under a manager synonymous with a safety first approach would result in the same performances from an imaginative and creative midfielder in a more expressive attack minded system is completely naive.