Love to see KDB in our midfield trying to make stuff happen with all the statues around him offering nothing standing still gawking at him, got a funny feeling it would be very similar to Pogba.
Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]
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The bolded part is a wild and frankly offensive generalization and only serves to undermine an otherwise excellent point.
That's just an example. Stop taking everything so litterlly. Bottom line is he isn't performing. Have a bad game. That's fine as long as you put in the effort. He looks like he doesn't care. I don't like my boss either but I put in the hard work every day regardless...
Or it displays the dissmissive nature people have against those that shout "racism" when there is none? That wasnt my post, it was someone elses, and what he got for it was this:
That one post brought race into this conversation where it had never been about it before. That guy is right to be dismissive, because that was classic race card pulling to shut down a conversation. And now we are talking about racism and not the performances of pogba which had been the point up until that post.
He wouldn't be any magic wand making everything perfect, but the amount of times people say that such and such a world class player would look terrible for us is baffling. I thought there was a majority consensus that we seriously lack quality.
Another thing, I know there is racism in football, it's in every aspect of society. Does that mean one cannot state the obvious with regards to Pogba, that he is extremely unprofessional and a disruptive influence? It's nothing to do with his skin colour, and everything to do with his attitude.
Putting in effort is an absolute basic requirement of any footballer. Look at Rashford, his confidence is low, his game isn't fully working esp in the early part of 1st half, but he keeps going, puts in the effort and was involved in 2 goals. Southampton's best chances in 2nd half were coming directly from Pogba mistakes. That would be more tolerable if he put in some effort to rectify his balls ups. But standing throwing your arms in the air is infuriating. The team isn't set up correctly, he doesn't like the manager, we get that, but some effort in lad.
I was talking about a select few to be honest, that Macca guy in this thread being an example.
I'm sorry but it's not going to work. No one has ever questioned Pogba's professionalism, the fact that some of you do it without any sort of proof is baffling.
Beckham was abused for England sending off and laughed at for wearing a sarong (I'm in my late 30s, remember all this very well) - none of what you're saying correlates to my point...
These examples are all 'flashy' guys, and it's barely mentioned about them when compared to a handful of black players, some of whom are just unassuming ordinary lads in the football world!
"Ramos Isn't Flashy"
And that's all fairly conservative for Sergio... If Ramos was black, he'd be called a 'wannabe Rapper / pop star', no doubt.
Ramos is a thug. No one gives a shit about his stupid fashion because hes that much of a thug. Just like nicolas anelka is mostly known for being a prick whos was quite good. Deli alli is a social media darling, but you ask anyone to name one thing about him and theyll all say thug. Pogba is known for stupid hair cuts and doing fancy shit on the pitch. We are shit at the moment, and people are point fingers at his social media nonsense. We start bringing it on the pitch and no one will give a shit what he does in his own time. Play well, you get away with being whatever you want to be. Play shit, and everything you do will be used against you. Thats true for pogba just as it was true for beckham.
And you and I remember the 90s very differently, because I remember beckham getting a feck ton of abuse. Everything from his voice to his hair cuts to his choice of spice girl and everything inbetween. No one said "rapper" but they did say hollywood. Because thats what he did, fannying around with tom cruise and the like. "hes acting like hes a big shot in hollywood", "tom cruise said he could be a movie star" blah blah blah.
Nah we need more Fellainis, lukakus McTominays. Good honest people . Who cares if you can't pass more than 10 yards or you don't have a first touch? Hard work and running through the brick walls is where it's at
When was the last time you saw or heard him single out players like he was doing? Its been a while. And to answer your question this hurts jose, it doesnt help him. If its true, and he did leak hes the same old prick he always was and he might as well just say it in public. No one would have bated an eye, pogba was fecking terrible on saturday. Absolutely fecking dreadful, and jose went out of his way not to single him out. So why then leak a private discourse when he could have just flat out said safe in the knowledge that everyone would have agreed with him?
Pogba must look around him when he's on the ball and think, "Can't go to you, you'll lose it. Hmmm you will too. And you too. And oh there goes Marcus making the same silly run. And oh I'll save you some stick (Romelu) by not passing to you so it doesn't bounce off your shin and hit your nose."
I agree that it would be nice if Pogba gave 100% effort every single game, but I also feel for him. He deserves to be in a team with players that aren't afraid to keep the ball. And it must suck for him knowing that whoever it goes to will either lose it or punt it upfield. No matter what he's being paid, this is not what he was sold by Ed, Jose and the club when he signed. He was promised much much more than this.
Now he's 1/3rd into a season and already knows there's nothing to play for. I can forgive the guy for having a few off days. It happens to any superstars that play on bad teams, especially in the middle of the season.
I agree that it would be nice if Pogba gave 100% effort every single game, but I also feel for him. He deserves to be in a team with players that aren't afraid to keep the ball. And it must suck for him knowing that whoever it goes to will either lose it or punt it upfield. No matter what he's being paid, this is not what he was sold by Ed, Jose and the club when he signed. He was promised much much more than this.
Now he's 1/3rd into a season and already knows there's nothing to play for. I can forgive the guy for having a few off days. It happens to any superstars that play on bad teams, especially in the middle of the season.
So theres no one else but fellians and mctominays to get on the market?
I wouldn't crucify Pogba for turning off a bit when the whole team is dysfunctional. Lots of top footballers do that.
But its also pretty clear that Pogba isn't the type of personality you want as the leader and captain of a club. At Juventus he was surrounded by hard charging professionals like Barzagli, Chiellini, Buffon, Vidal, Lichsteiner, etc that policed the boot room and who weren't going to stand for anybody giving less than 100% on the pitch. Pogba didn't have to be a leader, he just needed to be a talented player that expressed himself on the pitch and tried to play with the intensity expected by the club culture. Its always going to be different for him at United because he's no longer such a young player but the next manager needs to find ways to take leadership responsibilities away from him - starting with finding a different captain - and to bring in some other hard charging players that can set the tone.
But its also pretty clear that Pogba isn't the type of personality you want as the leader and captain of a club. At Juventus he was surrounded by hard charging professionals like Barzagli, Chiellini, Buffon, Vidal, Lichsteiner, etc that policed the boot room and who weren't going to stand for anybody giving less than 100% on the pitch. Pogba didn't have to be a leader, he just needed to be a talented player that expressed himself on the pitch and tried to play with the intensity expected by the club culture. Its always going to be different for him at United because he's no longer such a young player but the next manager needs to find ways to take leadership responsibilities away from him - starting with finding a different captain - and to bring in some other hard charging players that can set the tone.
I'm sat here honestly thinking that aside from being a mega fan of Carrick in general, he also gets United and how we should play so why the hell not?
I can't believe that's happy in the current environment and he's one of the remaining remnants of the club we were a decade ago.
Jose can feck off and let the door hit him on the way out. Pogba deserves criticism for the way he played at the weekend too though and to be honest it left me wondering if he's really worth the hassle. We know what he's like when he's on it and he's magical but he's off it so much that it leaves a lasting impression.
Not having world class players doesn’t mean he should be losing the ball due to not paying attention to his surrounding space. Or that he behaves too nonchalantly when he is dispossessed. It happens too much. When you had Zlatan in the team, his effort could never be questioned even if he played shit. I can’t say the same with Pogba like that.
Love how people have turned on at Pogba. This is what Jose does. He did it with Hazard at Chelsea, Casillas at Real and now our best player at utd. There was only one virus at all these clubs. Go figure who.
Yup.
That's what I thought too, if Mourinho really did leak this to Castles then it's very clear he wanted Pogba to be his scapegoat and someone he could point to when things aren't going well. I'm still very sceptical, I know Castles has contacts within Mourinho's circle but I still think this is a cheap attempt at generating clicks as is always the case when United are going through a bad patch.
So because he thinks everyone else will lose it, he'll should just lose it himself instead? He's actually the one who's caused goals directly the most because of his turnovers.
Ahh yes, its easy to forget how he used to talk, even as England captain. He had the looks, girlfriend, talent, career, everything and people hated it. All they could do was laugh at him sounding like a thicko. But yeah, only happens to black guys
We don't need this article to look at the bigger picture. The man is clearly taking on Pogba and Martial week-in week-out since the WC final. Never takes the blame for whats happening. Its the fecking players not showing heart, its the players not running like mad dogs, its the players lacking desire blah blah blah every fecking week.
The biggest worry for me with this manager who is more filling the place with gas fumes with one match could blow OT up, is the players who are his go to guys that he likes
Tick them off, young, Valencia, Jones, smalling, matic, fellaini, mctomina, lukaku. This for me is the core group on why we can never build a title winning team, while these players continue to not only get picked, but these players are amune from anything. They are the core that will continue to fail this club, and the owners and Woodward are idiots
Look at that pattern on the type of player he sees, very tall, slow and not very good he looks too and some of them are old, and then the future of the players who you could build a trophy winning team who could leave for different reasons, DDG, bailly, pogba, Perrera, Herrera, Fred, mata, martial, rashford, he’s thrown some of these players under the bus, his fave players who run through brick walls for him would either be in mid table clubs or even MLS and no one wanted Fellini. The worst part? We lose these players which we could, who we going to buy? Who in the hell wants to play for this Jose Mourinho (2018) edition, it’s career suicide to play for this man and the owners don’t see this
So this is a time bomb the club are willing to take a chance with because they won’t pay out the money to sack him. The club is like someone driving a car, there is 200 foot cliff ahead and the warning signs are saying (cliff ahead) but they won’t do anything until they drive off the cliff. We like captain smith on the titanic, iceberg warnings but it’s all ignored until it’s too late, that’s our owners ignoring the warning signs we have a manager who has gone so insane, he needs a padded cell and a straight jacket and we are in big problems
Tick them off, young, Valencia, Jones, smalling, matic, fellaini, mctomina, lukaku. This for me is the core group on why we can never build a title winning team, while these players continue to not only get picked, but these players are amune from anything. They are the core that will continue to fail this club, and the owners and Woodward are idiots
Look at that pattern on the type of player he sees, very tall, slow and not very good he looks too and some of them are old, and then the future of the players who you could build a trophy winning team who could leave for different reasons, DDG, bailly, pogba, Perrera, Herrera, Fred, mata, martial, rashford, he’s thrown some of these players under the bus, his fave players who run through brick walls for him would either be in mid table clubs or even MLS and no one wanted Fellini. The worst part? We lose these players which we could, who we going to buy? Who in the hell wants to play for this Jose Mourinho (2018) edition, it’s career suicide to play for this man and the owners don’t see this
So this is a time bomb the club are willing to take a chance with because they won’t pay out the money to sack him. The club is like someone driving a car, there is 200 foot cliff ahead and the warning signs are saying (cliff ahead) but they won’t do anything until they drive off the cliff. We like captain smith on the titanic, iceberg warnings but it’s all ignored until it’s too late, that’s our owners ignoring the warning signs we have a manager who has gone so insane, he needs a padded cell and a straight jacket and we are in big problems
I do wonder if at some point he'll take responsibility for his tactics. He can moan about the players all he wants but he's the one setting them up to sit so deep, allowing us to soak up pressure which inevitably leads to mistakes and goal scoring opportunities for the opposing team.
Did he ever took blame for the Chelsea debacle? He won't. Hurts his ego a lot.
Like with Luke Shaw ? “I cannot compare the way he trains [with other contenders for the position], the way he commits, the focus, the ambition. He is a long way behind.”, like with Valencia ? Like with Rashford, Martial ? Mourinho on Pogba, both after the world cup and after the daft captaincy issue.
We were lucky to get away with 2-2 vs relegation fodder, Mourinho rightfully fears for his job, and all the press is talking about after the match is Paul Pogba. That's why you leak it to Castles.
Without any proof? All you have to do is watch him play and see him putting in very little effort to question his professionalism...
Jesus.. Rooney may have fallen out with SAF, many did. Peter did as well, wasnt sold. They worked hard and listened to the manager regardless of wether they liked each other or not.
Maybe Rooney was in decline, but he gave everything he had.
Imagine Rooney posting Instagram videos while sitting in VIP laughing during a loss. Would not happen.
Maybe Rooney was in decline, but he gave everything he had.
Imagine Rooney posting Instagram videos while sitting in VIP laughing during a loss. Would not happen.
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If you can't learn from players like that, then who? Pogba is no longer a raw kid with talen. He's a mature man with a WC winners medal under his belt. He should be the leader on the pitch and in the dressing room.
I think this is born from a manager that doesn't believe in fast/ aggressive/ attacking football! I fail to believe that players like Martial, Lukaku, Rashford, mata, Fred, Andreas, Herrera wouldn't play some great stuff under a coach that gives confidence and actually works on offence in training!
Where's the venom for basically every other player in our squad then? Plenty of abuse for Pogba, not nearly enough for the rest of the dross.
Anyone bringing Beckham into this needs their head reexamined. We had Fergie at that time and he is beyond reproach. Anybody searching Google for articles where Fergie singled out a player also needs their heads reexamined. It's just no comparison between Mou and Fergie.
Exactly. Its a deep rooted cultural issue that many have with those in that lifestyle. When Pogba plays well, the grumblers dont mention him and when he is atrocious, they have an absolute fun fair over why they hate him so much.
Come on, you know that it doesn't work that way. Not everyone has the character of a leader and it doesn't matter how technically/tactically talented you are, some players are meant to be sidekicks. Personally the funniest example was Deschamps, former players explained that Deschamps was a leader at youth level and when he got promoted in the professional team he immediately acted like a leader scolding older players when they were slacking or laughing too much during training and he wasn't very popular because of it but at the same time they respected him.
As far as I know Pogba has never really been a leader at any level, he has been described as a player that contributes to a good atmosphere, he tries to bond with everyone but he isn't really a leader.
Fair enough, but giving less that 100% on the field for the fans, the club, and his team-mates is unacceptable. He just looks as though he can't be bothered sometimes.
two big egos meet each others. Mourinho always move the blames to others and mentioned his past achievements. But most of peoples, whose are still clear in the mind and brain. Know football is a teamsport. He should talk more of WE than I. Like with Porto, Chelsea and Inter i won this and this. With Mourinho the "I" is too big. I have won that and that. But the truth behind all human achievements. There are more we than I. Alone we are nothing.
You don't have to be a leader in that sense, not everyone has that ability. What anyone can do though, is lead by example, and he's not doing that.
Pogba deserves criticism for his diabolical performance against Southampton but Im tired of people harping on about how he only performs around world class players. I can't see how you say Zlatan's efforts could never be questioned even when performed poorly. Do you think the same about Sanchez? There were games were Zlatan just stood there like a statue and gave the ball away more times than anyone else. He had some really bad games for us and was subject for a lot of criticism on here, it was almost Matic levels at one point with Mourinho's unwillingness to drop him.
On the racism topic. I was called a racist because I assumed Dalot was black. Go figure.
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