Mourinho at full time: "Pogba a virus. You don't play. You don't respect players/fans" [Castles]

[Judas]

Fair enough, but giving less that 100% on the field for the fans, the club, and his team-mates is unacceptable. He just looks as though he can't be bothered sometimes.

So do the majority of our squad.

 

[Janson]

Fair enough, but giving less that 100% on the field for the fans, the club, and his team-mates is unacceptable. He just looks as though he can't be bothered sometimes.

What I just said. If he can't be a leader in the traditional sense, at least he can lead by example. That means always giving 100%.

 

[Janson]

I don't get why it's either Mourinho or Pogba. As far as I'm concerned, they both have big flaws.

 

[Oneunited26]

To sum Jose Mourinho up and this squad, we are the bounty captained by William Bligh, he will have his trusted crew but there is a big group who want him gone. Under Jose Mourinho he failed going round the horn, and he wants to do it again without caring about the consiquences because it’s all about him. Even when things are that bad, he will continue the same tried and trusted matic and fellaini formula, with clown shoes smalling and Lukaku at the back and front.

Our spine consists of
Smalling
Matic Fellaini
Lukaku

The peak of teqhnical ability on Opposite Day. And we question why we struggle to win games, look at that wonderful spine, bet clubs are lining up for those players, oh wait their on the bench

 

[JPRouve]

Fair enough, but giving less that 100% on the field for the fans, the club, and his team-mates is unacceptable. He just looks as though he can't be bothered sometimes.

It's unacceptable if it's conscious which I have huge doubts about. The game against Russia before the world cup is one that I won't forget because despite a couple of great moments, he was completely out of it, his positioning and effort was subpar, he wasn't the only player like that but it was extremely frustrating. My suspicion is that when it comes to on field mood, his mindset mirrors the general mood, look at the game against Uruguay, he was pumped up like the rest of the team and if I'm not mistaken Griezmann and Hernandez were the players credited for setting the tone. And to be clear I understand why you would expect more, the club spent a lot of money and logically people expect to also have the intangible, but in my opinion it's easier to simply accept who he is.

Now it's clear that on the field and probably out of it too, this team lacks leadership, tone setter. I feel that Herrera and Fred could be those players, they both have this desire to crank up the intensity which is contagious.

 

[Moriarty]

It's unacceptable if it's conscious which I have huge doubts about. The game against Russia before the world cup is one that I won't forget because despite a couple of great moments, he was completely out of it, his positioning and effort was subpar, he wasn't the only player like that but it was extremely frustrating. My suspicion is that when it comes to on field mood, his mindset mirrors the general mood, look at the game against Uruguay, he was pumped like the rest of the team and if I'm not mistaken Griezmann and Hernandez were the players credited for setting the tone. And to be clear I understand why you would expect more, the club spent a lot of money and logically people expect to also have the intangible, but in my opinion it's easier to simply accept who he is.

Now it's clear that on the field and probably out of it too, this team lacks leadership, tone setter. I feel that Herrera and Fred could be those players, they both have this desire to crank up the intensity which is contagious.

I'll defer to your opinion here. Of course, there's no way of telling whether it's conscious or otherwise but I would hope it's not. The mood on the field at United does seem to be low. When Southampton scored, we got a glimpse of Fellaini rolling his eyes as if to say "not again" and Phil Jones, who I thought did well, was stood shaking his head. There was no anger there; no fury. It got better after Lukaku scored and you could see Herrera wanted to go and get a third after his equalizer, but it's like Jose sapped their energy at half-time.

 

[LoneStar]

Woodward did. He's on record as saying that Pogba's return was two years in the works, which was long before Jose got here.

Yeah every single transfer was forced on Jose, poor sad man. I’m pretty sure every other manager would have loved to get someone like Pogba in their team.

The fact that none of our players are playing to their full potential shows that Jose is the main culprit here. I would want to see Pogba under another manager before making any decisions .

 

[johanovic]

Look at teams like Arsenal,Liverpool,Spurs and City as they are enjoying their football. Why? Because they are buying into what their managers are trying to get across and into their ideas of playing attacking football. We have a manager behaving like a primadonna, sees nothing wrong in is dated methods that are clearly not working. Just look at Arsenal for christs sake, they are taking massive leaps while we are getting left behind. If the manager does not have the squad with him, it´s over and that´s the fact. MOURINHO OUT, there is no need to wait as it´s clear he´s done. Perhaps the meltdown in his last season at Chelsea should considered as he´s behaving in a similar manner now. Juve were able to get Pogba playing well and for a big unit like Pogba playing with more immobile players in Matic and Fellaini is never going to work. We are Man Utd and I think most fans see us standing for good fast attacking football and playing in the right way. Mourinho is having similar effects on our club like the uncles Trump and Grinch have had. True leaders lead by example, delegate and inspire others to improve. Grinch Mourinho is nothing like that and I´m sure Sir Alex goes bonkers when listening to Mourinho talking about what he has won in the past. You are only as good as your last title(Win) and then you move forward. Sir Alex was a master of that and a true leader and do this day we have not managed to find a leader worthy of taking us forward.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Like with Luke Shaw ? “I cannot compare the way he trains [with other contenders for the position], the way he commits, the focus, the ambition. He is a long way behind.”, like with Valencia ? Like with Rashford, Martial ? Mourinho on Pogba, both after the world cup and after the daft captaincy issue.

We were lucky to get away with 2-2 vs relegation fodder, Mourinho rightfully fears for his job, and all the press is talking about after the match is Paul Pogba. That's why you leak it to Castles.

Yes, and that was how long ago? Over a month? Two months? More? And all the press is talking about is pogba, dear god. Just stop, you must think me a an absolute muppet to lie so brazenly. I can’t listen to talk sport for 2 minutes without Jason Cundy talking a lot of shit about Jose and United. Pogba never gets a look in. It’s all Jose, all the time.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Where's the venom for basically every other player in our squad then? Plenty of abuse for Pogba, not nearly enough for the rest of the dross.

Pogba gets abused because of two reasons
- People believe he is brilliant player. So his expectation levels are extremely high.
- He has shown us in some matches that he is capable of doing big things. So we expect him to play to that level or thereabouts in every match

Players like Fellaini and Matic are not really expected to do any wonders. So people are happy when they do some odd things here and there.

To make it clear, I am not questioning Pogba's professionalism. I am just answering why Pogba gets more stick than others.

I have found it baffling several times as to what Pogba does on the pitch, but I haven't felt he does it on purpose. Maybe I am wrong to think he is some top level midfielder and he is really someone who blows hot and cold.
Or hopefully he would improve with another manager

 

[Judas]

I get being angry at Pogba for performing below where we'd expect, it's the fools who call him a rubbish footballer that do my head in.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Your discussing Pogba being a virus and your pretty much agreeing. So do you believe he’s the only virus? You know the dancing Instagram guy. Yes Kleberson did win a World Cup so did Vampeta. Have that same energy when Mourinho tells us all the titles he’s won.

No, I don't think he is the only one, I think there a lot of players in our squad whos performances are not worth the shit that comes with them, but yet again, this is a thread about Jose calling pogba a virus, and I agree. Not sure what you are withering on about Jose's titles for, at no point have I defended him, he needs to be gotten rid of before anyone else, except may e Woodward.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

I think this is born from a manager that doesn't believe in fast/ aggressive/ attacking football! I fail to believe that players like Martial, Lukaku, Rashford, mata, Fred, Andreas, Herrera wouldn't play some great stuff under a coach that gives confidence and actually works on offence in training!

It does all go back to Jose's incompetence. He's incompetent as in he's been no better than the last 2 knobheads we called incompetent. But to both of our points, Pogba isn't seeing Mata/Fred/Pereira/Herrera when he's on the field. It's typically more like Fellaini/Young/Valencia/Smalling/Lukaku/Lingard/Matic/McTominay hahaha. All due respect to those guys who try very hard, but they are not good. They aren't technical. They cannot keep the ball. They resort to long balls because they aren't good enough to play another way. We have technical players like you mentioned either sitting on the bench or not even making the bench to give way to these punters.

 

[Mainoldo]

No, I don't think he is the only one, I think there a lot of players in our squad whos performances are not worth the shit that comes with them, but yet again, this is a thread about Jose calling pogba a virus, and I agree. Not sure what you are withering on about Jose's titles for, at no point have I defended him, he needs to be gotten rid of before anyone else, except may e Woodward.

But he’s our best Center midfielder this season. Not talent wise but performance wise. Which is why I don’t get it.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Where's the venom for basically every other player in our squad then? Plenty of abuse for Pogba, not nearly enough for the rest of the dross.

There are plenty of other threads about other players too. However, in case you missed it, this thread is about Mourinho calling Pogba a "Virus". But here's one about Lukaku and I'm sure if you looked hard enough you will find a thread for pretty much every player on the team and they aren't exactly glowing with praise...

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/romelu-lukaku-2018-19-performances.440063/

 

[Sterling Archer]

What on Earth has this thread devolved into... it's racist to criticise Pogba now? Jeez.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

But he’s our best Center midfielder this season. Not talent wise but performance wise. Which is why I don’t get it.

People really have short memories with Pogba. After every poor result people forget all of Pogba's great performances. He has been our most consistent outfield player this season but, you would not know that in this thread.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

But he’s our best Center midfielder this season. Not talent wise but performance wise. Which is why I don’t get it.

He is, I'm not arguing that, but even though he has been the best I just don't think his performances warrant the crap that comes with it and the constant presence of his fat scumbag bastard agent who is always ready to stir shit up, and as much as I dont want to side with Jose letting player power win sets a very dangerous precedent, what's to stay the usual suspects won't start again next time something they don't like happens?

 

[Rory 7]

He is, I'm not arguing that, but even though he has been the best I just don't think his performances warrant the crap that comes with it and the constant presence of his fat scumbag bastard agent who is always ready to stir shit up, and as much as I dont want to side with Jose letting player power win sets a very dangerous precedent, what's to stay the usual suspects won't start again next time something they don't like happens?

This is a very important point. Mourinho aside, at some point we have to start looking at the players too and their attitude. There is something wrong with the core of the club at the moment, something that no manager has been able to put right. Mourinho is pretty much gone IMO but attention has to turn to these players soon.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

This is a very important point. Mourinho aside, at some point we have to start looking at the players too and their attitude. There is something wrong with the core of the club at the moment, something that no manager has been able to put right. Mourinho is pretty much gone IMO but attention has to turn to these players soon.

Exactly, you just can't let the tail wag the dog.

 

[Moriarty]

He is, I'm not arguing that, but even though he has been the best I just don't think his performances warrant the crap that comes with it and the constant presence of his fat scumbag bastard agent who is always ready to stir shit up, and as much as I dont want to side with Jose letting player power win sets a very dangerous precedent, what's to stay the usual suspects won't start again next time something they don't like happens?

Nothing. It happened to Mourinho at Chelsea and it's happening here. Fergie used to despair of it at times and had a good remedy for a player who got too big for his boots. Those days are gone. Players can't be treated like naughty schoolboys any more, even if they deserve it. Social media sees to that.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

This is a very important point. Mourinho aside, at some point we have to start looking at the players too and their attitude. There is something wrong with the core of the club at the moment, something that no manager has been able to put right. Mourinho is pretty much gone IMO but attention has to turn to these players soon.

It's funny. I see it completely differently. I'm thankful Pogba is telling the club this ain't good enough. We as fans surely aren't sending them that message via the RedCafe. Who better than Pogba to let them all know they aren't doing their jobs. Old fashioned people think in old fashioned ways. If Pogba, as a young superstar and the face of the entire club, feels the club is not holding up its end of the bargain (and it's clearly not) then why the hell shouldn't he make that clear? He's giving all us moaners a voice in my opinion.

Plenty of old folk don't like "subordinates" stepping out of line. They should always just keep their heads down and do as they're told. Thank god someone important is putting pressure on these fools.

Edit: To add, just because Pogba is pulling this with Mourinho shouldn't make you think he'd do it with any manager. That's clearly not the case with him. Whole lotta people taking the bait Jose is dangling out there. He's turned the supporters against Paul Pogba of all people.

 

[Oneunited26]

It does all go back to Jose's incompetence. He's incompetent as in he's been no better than the last 2 knobheads we called incompetent. But to both of our points, Pogba isn't seeing Mata/Fred/Pereira/Herrera when he's on the field. It's typically more like Fellaini/Young/Valencia/Smalling/Lukaku/Lingard/Matic/McTominay hahaha. All due respect to those guys who try very hard, but they are not good. They aren't technical. They cannot keep the ball. They resort to long balls because they aren't good enough to play another way. We have technical players like you mentioned either sitting on the bench or not even making the bench to give way to these punters.

There is dinasaur tactical idiocrazy, and then there is him. What you do see in his taste in football players is the window in the kind of complete dark ages of a manager who’s like a PE teacher, who thinks you don’t need to be teqhnically talented to play, has a matter of fact he wants tall, slow, awful players who couldn’t control a ball of a gun was pointed at them, oh yes they are old has hell.

We see people like that idiot on full time devils moan he wasn’t backed and no one else can do better, but he builds a team around young, Valencia, Jones, smalling, Tried bullying Shaw look at him now, donkey led boot clown shoes matic and fellaini who couldn’t out run a tortoise, drunk mark henry lukaku who trips over his own feet because he’s that heavy and has no teqhncal ability when trying to control the ball.

He does not like talented football players who can keep the ball. He wouldn’t dare try and break the Real Madrid group, because that club kept the mad man on a leash. One thing with Jose, give him the keys to the castle he will gut the castles interior and raise it to the ground in his own image, and that means the castle is hidious. He tired destroying one of the worlds best players hazard, and that was a great escape for Chelsea

 

[Darius_MUFC1991]

It's funny. I see it completely differently. I'm thankful Pogba is telling the club this ain't good enough. We as fans surely aren't sending them that message via the RedCafe. Who better than Pogba to let them all know they aren't doing their jobs. Old fashioned people think in old fashioned ways. If Pogba, as a young superstar and the face of the entire club, feels the club is not holding up its end of the bargain (and it's clearly not) then why the hell shouldn't he make that clear? He's giving all us moaners a voice in my opinion.

Plenty of old folk don't like "subordinates" stepping out of line. They should always just keep their heads down and do as they're told. Thank god someone important is putting pressure on these fools.

Edit: To add, just because Pogba is pulling this with Mourinho shouldn't make you think he'd do it with any manager. That's clearly not the case with him. Whole lotta people taking the bait Jose is dangling out there. He's turned the supporters against Paul Pogba of all people.

Bang on point. Anyone who thinks Pogba isnt a Utd fan needs to get their Jose Blinkers off and get their head checked. The amount of spin Jose has weaved in the past 2 seasons has been cringeworthy and it really is sad to see it has worked. When Pogba spoke about attack attack attack ( something we were all thinking) all the Pogba haters were quick to criticize his insubordination yet still moan at the drab football we play.

Sometimes someone has to take a stand for something, and if Woodward doesnt have the balls to , perhaps Pogba does.

 

[Mainoldo]

It's funny. I see it completely differently. I'm thankful Pogba is telling the club this ain't good enough. We as fans surely aren't sending them that message via the RedCafe. Who better than Pogba to let them all know they aren't doing their jobs. Old fashioned people think in old fashioned ways. If Pogba, as a young superstar and the face of the entire club, feels the club is not holding up its end of the bargain (and it's clearly not) then why the hell shouldn't he make that clear? He's giving all us moaners a voice in my opinion.

Plenty of old folk don't like "subordinates" stepping out of line. They should always just keep their heads down and do as they're told. Thank god someone important is putting pressure on these fools.

Edit: To add, just because Pogba is pulling this with Mourinho shouldn't make you think he'd do it with any manager. That's clearly not the case with him. Whole lotta people taking the bait Jose is dangling out there. He's turned the supporters against Paul Pogba of all people.

If nothing is said. It will never change. But who ever appreciates the first person to go against the regime. Always the case even when they are right.

 

[glazed]

1. so your slating them for buying superstars?

Superstars who fit the team is one thing. Superstars for their name value is quite another. Di Maria, Zlatan, Sanchez all sounded good but offered a lot less. Pogba otoh WAS a good buy

2. Who doesn't want top 4 and Europe? Being sacked because we dont get that doesnt mean it is the goal, it means it is the absolute bare minimum. As it should be.

The point is that Arsenal showed that it's financially lucrative to scrape into Europe every season without ever winning anything substantive. That seems to be our aim now as well, judging by the sack clauses that were used against Moyes and LVG.

3. Which players are these that we have bought young and sold for profit? Like Zaha? or Depay? Like pretty much the majority who are sold at a loss?

Ronaldo would be the model. I imagine Martial would sell well. Blind would be the median, going for much the same as we paid. The point is why do you think Jose was allowed to buy Lindelhof but not Alderweireld? As to Zaha and Depay - I never said their model always works. It plainly doesn't. But that's because we don't tend to make players better than when they arrived. Because we play cr#p football.

4. Whats the resale on Matic? How much will we get for Lukaku? The ridiculous contracts for rooney, now sanchez, where was the value in that?

Matic was the exception rather than the rule - someone Jose badly wanted. Lukaku is still only 25. Rooney was bought young and relatively cheap and before the Glazers iirc. Sanchez was a trade. I didn't say they mind paying high wages - clearly they are ready to pay them. It's capital investment that they fight shy of, not running costs. I imagine there's an accountant explanation for this.

5 & 6 Not wanting to lose games? im not sure your point, no owners wants to lose games or have to go through prolonged restructuring...

Yes but sometimes you have to . Look at Liverpool and the way Klopp was given time to implement his plan. Look at the way City built up a coherent squad with Guardiola as their endgame. Spurs. Just Spurs. Light years from what we do. The club needs to get every department working towards the same long term goal, not living hand to mouth on the last win.

7. i agree with you on that. The philosophy of the club should determine who the manger is, and not be a secondary factor

Yay - we agree on something.

8. just an emotional argument which simply doesnt stack up with logic.

Tell that to the manager when he's made to go on a pointless pre-season tour of the States by a CEO who is a great deal maker but knows jack about kicking a round thing into a net.

 

[SuperiorXI]

To sum Jose Mourinho up and this squad, we are the bounty captained by William Bligh, he will have his trusted crew but there is a big group who want him gone. Under Jose Mourinho he failed going round the horn, and he wants to do it again without caring about the consiquences because it’s all about him. Even when things are that bad, he will continue the same tried and trusted matic and fellaini formula, with clown shoes smalling and Lukaku at the back and front.

Our spine consists of
Smalling
Matic Fellaini
Lukaku

The peak of teqhnical ability on Opposite Day. And we question why we struggle to win games, look at that wonderful spine, bet clubs are lining up for those players, oh wait their on the bench

Yeah but we never got to the island of tits which is unfortunate.

 

[Moriarty]

Yeah every single transfer was forced on Jose, poor sad man. I’m pretty sure every other manager would have loved to get someone like Pogba in their team.

Woodward staked his reputation on signing Pogba. Paul Hirst, of The Times, wrote: "The month after signing Pogba on a five-year deal, Woodward took great delight in telling investors that the announcement of Pogba's medical had generated 'the highest daily activity ever on our website' and that 'it was also the most retweeted Manchester United post of all time on Twitter'." Nothing about where he would play or how he would fit into the team. Pogba's return is still, allegedly, United's most popular Instragram post. As for every other manager, Guardiola could have had him last year but didn't bite. Real weren't breaking the door down to get him either and Barca offered a couple of low-grade players and a bit of cash.

 

[Cassidy]

What adversity did he face during the WC?

Quite a bit in the run up to the WC people questioning his role in the team etc

 

[Oneunited26]

Yeah but we never got to the island of tits which is unfortunate.

Yeh true but the only island of tits we got were busted flushes like Europe league haha

 

[jem]

People really have short memories with Pogba. After every poor result people forget all of Pogba's great performances. He has been our most consistent outfield player this season but, you would not know that in this thread.

But honestly, how many truly great performances have there been? He's obviously our best midfielder (we saw how big an absence he was vs City,) but he's still been a massive disappointment in my opinion. People talk about Veron being a failure at United; thus far, I think Pogba is very much in the same boat.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

But honestly, how many truly great performances have there been? He's obviously our best midfielder (we saw how big an absence he was vs City,) but he's still been a massive disappointment in my opinion. People talk about Veron being a failure at United; thus far, I think Pogba is very much in the same boat.

Who in our team has performed consistently well in last 3 years? can't remember a lineup without 100 changes from the previous one. One game its Mata, other its Lingard. Sometimes Rashford or Martial.

 

[redmanx]

Depends on the team. He'd do well at PSG or Juve I'm sure. I think a team like Real struggling for an identity and rebuilding their squad would have exactly the same problems as us.

Remember that show pony Ballotelli? Both City and Liverpool tried him and he let them both down, how they tried defending him only for him to fxxk up again days later, it couldn't have happened to 2 better clubs, wonderful.....the boots on the other foot now and its our turn to be sniggered at. Like Ballotelli Pogba hasn't got it in him to dig in when the going gets hard, he hasn't got the attitude it takes to be a truly top player and no matter where he goes, when things go wrong, he'll go missing.

 

[ForestRGoinUp]

Remember that show pony Ballotelli? Both City and Liverpool tried him and he let them both down, how they tried defending him only for him to fxxk up again days later, it couldn't have happened to 2 better clubs, wonderful.....the boots on the other foot now and its our turn to be sniggered at. Like Ballotelli Pogba hasn't got it in him to dig in when the going gets hard, he hasn't got the attitude it takes to be a truly top player and no matter where he goes, when things go wrong, he'll go missing.

Lazy at best to compare him to Balotelli. Careful you don’t choke on Jose.

 

[redmanx]

But honestly, how many truly great performances have there been? He's obviously our best midfielder (we saw how big an absence he was vs City,) but he's still been a massive disappointment in my opinion. People talk about Veron being a failure at United; thus far, I think Pogba is very much in the same boat.

Pogba's worse, Veron tried, didn't sulk and didnt strut around like he owned the place

 

[redmanx]

Mourinho meltdown in full swing! Pogba once again under the the firing line. He's our most creative player by a mile. It's not his fault he's playing under the wrong manager, in the wrong system and with players around him who have no confidence.

Hes a highly paid professional football player....things aren't perfect, its a tough old world, but at least he could try, show some passion, for the supporters at least. Is that too much to ask? But the same goes for most of our current squad.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Remember that show pony Ballotelli?... Like Ballotelli Pogba hasn't got it in him to dig in when the going gets hard, he hasn't got the attitude it takes to be a truly top player and no matter where he goes, when things go wrong, he'll go missing.

What!? Why on Earth are you comparing Paul Pogba to Mario Balotelli...?

I'm not even gonna go there... and we all know where 'there' is.

What I will say, is that Pogba is a World Cup winner, and far from him having 'attitude problems when the going gets hard', this is the speech he gave to his teammates before they went out and won the World Cup...

 

[redmanx]

Lazy at best to compare him to Balotelli. Careful you don’t choke on Jose.

Who would you compare him with? Ronaldo? Messi? Scholes? Keane? Pele? Beckenbaur? Charlton? Best?

 

[Isotope]

Seems like some in here never work in corporate world. If you have an incompetent boss who keep telling you that you are shit, eventhough you are one of the best worker in the last two years, i won’t be bother doing the job, if it means getting that bastard boss get the chopped.

Just think and be honest to yourself.

 

[UncleBob]

Yes, and that was how long ago? Over a month? Two months? More? And all the press is talking about is pogba, dear god. Just stop, you must think me a an absolute muppet to lie so brazenly. I can’t listen to talk sport for 2 minutes without Jason Cundy talking a lot of shit about Jose and United. Pogba never gets a look in. It’s all Jose, all the time.

It's within the space of 6 months, plenty since the start of the season. Majority of the focus after the match has, without a surprise given the leak to Castles, been about Pogba