We promoted young players throughout Sir Alex Ferguson's time at United. Whether it be the class of 92, or Richardson, Eagles, Macheda etc. or Fletcher, Brown, Oshea, Welbeck etc. And we won pretty much throughout.
Mourinho and Man Utds conflicting interest
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Most teams consist of experienced players, full stop. The point is that we promoted youth throughout SAF's tenure. Heck, even our experienced players consisted of youth products FFS.
SAF always developed young players and turned them into superstars! Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Nevilles, Butt, Rooney, Ronaldo, were very young when they arrived at the 1st team. He then mixed them with some experienced players like Cantona, Keane, RVP. That's one of the reason it was so easy for him to make transition to another generation of players. Even his last team was full of young players mixed with some experienced ones (Ferdinand, Vidic, Carrick, Evra, Giggs, Scholes).
SAF always privileged youth and attacking football.
The way I see it, United and Jose's both have the exact same interest - to regain a lot of lost mojo and get back to the top ASAP. The only thing debateable is whether they're the right fit i.e whether they want to go about in the same manner and whether it will work. The OP questions whether we want success quickly. Of course we do. You can see that desparation in everything we've done over the last 4 years.
That's not true, most of our winning teams consisted of young players! For example, the last team and most successful one in our history, consisted of young players like Ronaldo, Rooney; Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra were still in their early 20s, same with Nani, Anderson, Carrick and Tevez. The old players were Giggs, Scholes, VDS and Neville.
Yeah, promoted would be a better word, I was asking when we last won with a team made mostly up of youth. SAF always had a core to fall back on, which pretty much allowed him to promote youth as he chose. He always had the perfect mixture of experience, superstardom and squad players. Compare the key core of Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Rooney and Rio to the core we have now. Throwing in youth for the sake of throwing in youth will only lead to failure if you don't mix it with the right talent and experience. SAF always had that to fall back on.
It always has to be a mix. A team mostly made up of youth is rare, anyway.
And SAF made sure he had that to fall back on. You have to do the building, you dont get handed things. Pochettino has developed players at Spurs without needing Scholes, Giggs etc. Similarly we have Bailly, DDG, Pogba, Herrera and Mkhitarian.
Are they doing enough yet to afford the injection of youth though? Not by a long shot. Until Jose is happy that he has a core of players that he can trust, we're not going to see him gamble on youth, and I wouldn't expect him to. It's easy to throw on a 17 year old Welbeck when Scholes, Ronaldo and Rooney have already killed the opposition. This team we currently have couldn't finish off a dying duck.
Mourinho has to get more out of those players. It's the managers job to build his own core. He signed Mkhitarian himself and then spent a lot of the season rejecting him. Also it is to be noted that youth doesn't necessarily need to be mollycoddled and a liability you must carry. Rashford is a prime example of a young player adding to the team rather than the team bearing his weight.
SAF has different rivals to contend with. Right now there are at least 5-6 clubs with a lot of money in the EPL who are capable of mounting a title challenge.
Romanticism is all good when you know that other clubs can't get well ahead of you even if you are moderately successful for a period of time. In the EPL, the competition is so intense that we may simply be left behind and forever remain on the fringes like Liverpool. It's better we spend the money now, get ourselves a good team and win some major honors to influence generations of young players to play for us in the future.
Play young players, but only when they are good enough to win. Not otherwise.
If Mourinho wins a treble here that's it I'm finished with the club.
Attacking!?
We are in a position that we must get back to TOP ASAP. Buying young players with potential or using our academy ones sounds nice but we can't rely only on potential. We need players who can help NOW, not in 5 or 10 years. Our academy has been crap for years now and we didn't have any youth players with a lot of potential to 'promote'. We are slowly getting better now having players like Tuanzebe, TFM, Gomes and Rashford coming through. Our reputation with young players is built around class of 92 but we didn't really have much luck since. Of course we played a lot of youngsters but it was clear that they were never going to reach PL level.
So 27 is ancient?
That is just ridiculous, isn't it. One might argue they haven't even hit their peak. Their physical peak is at 27-28, depending, and their football intelligence improves. If we buy a 27 year old and they hit top form at once and carry that form for 4-5 years, that would be better than buying a 19 year old, have him hit almost top form at 24 only to sell him to Real Madrid or Barcelone. Guess what, players don't stay at just one club anymore. 4-5 years is great service!
We frequently give undeserving players more chances than they are worth if they come from our academy. Playing youth is great and all but it's detrimental if they aren't good enough.
It's all about the balance, between quality players and the style the team will play. I remember we bought established, proven quality in Veron, but he just did not fit in.....I do think Mourinho will buy players who fit his plan, and, whilst it would be nice for some youth players to be given a chance, they have to hit the ground running these days.
He's still staying in a hotel, is he actually settling here? Is he going to stay long term?
My only concern with Mourinho is that he is staying in the hotel.
He did not spend half the season rejecting Mikhi. He started by playing him, benched him when he felt he didn't measure up well and when he was injured; and played him when Mikhi picked up again.
Hahaha.
Maybe he wants to be sure United won't fire him so early. I remember when he landed at Chelsea for a second stint and he kept talking about staying for long (The Happy One). Well, that didn't exactly last long before he got fired.
What about Morata, Rodriguez and Fabinho, players at a very good age in their careers who we are also heavily linked with? Or are we just nitpicking on names that fit the agenda to question Mourinho while ignoring every other that goes against it?
With regards to the Inter reference, Eto was at a similar age to Zlatan in that transfer. Along with signing Milito and Lucio, Inter also signed Thiago Motta, Sneijder and Pandev players in their mid-20s. Again, very selective in your pick of names.
Mourinho signing Pogba and Bailly last year clearly indicates he wants players who are up and comers. Mourinho signing Mkhi and Zlatan last year clearly indicates he wants players at their prime or coming to the end of it. I can spin it my way too if I ignore the fact we actually had a mix of signings, which we likely will repeat this window as well.
Wasn't meant to be taken literally, really.
Jose Mourinho 'racks up £150,000 hotel bill during season-long stay'
http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/off-the...nho-racks-up-gbp150000-hotel-bill_300082.html
Logically we need experienced players more than young potential at this time. we need to be back amongst the top 2-3 teams and have a realistic chance of winning the league. Now if that means Mourinho buying 27-35 year old players to get there then so be it. Once we are back amongst the elite regularly, then we can start looking at potential again. If successful I think this will be Mourinhos last league club, before at about 60 he will semi retire and manage Portugal, or maybe England.
Hit the nail on the head. Well said
Probably the same cost as renting a mansion in cheshire. They start from £8000 a month rent without the other bills.
Yep, there is a conflict with bringing Bailly, Pogba, developing Rashford, wanting Morata and maybe Lindelof. This now looks more like building for the future.
You can only argue that he needs to bring more experienced players as things stand.
You can only argue that he needs to bring more experienced players as things stand.
I've read Sir Alex Ferguson's recent book, and it mentions building a squad with a mix of youth, up-and coming, and in their prime players.
It looks to me like this is what Mourinho's doing. Replacing a 33+ Ibra and a 30+ Rooney and an aging Young with players like Morata and Perisic is definitely an upgrade.
It looks to me like this is what Mourinho's doing. Replacing a 33+ Ibra and a 30+ Rooney and an aging Young with players like Morata and Perisic is definitely an upgrade.
He's got Lindelof (22) and looks like we're getting Morata (24). He's signing younger players as well as prime players for the future which suggests he plans to stay here for longer than his usual 3 years. Pogba is 24, and Bailly is 23. Very good investments so far and I hope we'll be adding Lindelof and Morata to the list. There's no question of conflicting interests imo. He shouldn't buy all youngsters, because then we will have a team for only the future. A mix is always the best system and looks like that's the way we are going.
Where he does have room for improvement is in embracing the youth more. Rashford is already established, and I want to see how other players will establish themselves this season.
Where he does have room for improvement is in embracing the youth more. Rashford is already established, and I want to see how other players will establish themselves this season.
Pointless OP. ........pointless thread.
Yeah, the more this window is progressing the more pointless this thread seems to be. Morata is definitely a long term buy.
I think he's also looking to build a team that will peak in 2-3 years, because he knows we'll need that time to get back to the top. If Lindelof and Morata make the grade here then in a couple seasons we could have quite a few players in their prime who are accustomed to one another's playing styles.
If anything, I'd have the opposite concern to the OP. Give Mourinho enough time and he'll build a winning team. The only question is whether we can continue to progress on an upward trajectory in the meanwhile. I'd still like a signing this summer that can do more than make up for Zlatan's loss and transform our attack. We must do much better in the league this coming season.
At the start of that period of success, Vidic, Carrick and Evra were 25-26, Rio was 28. That's not early twenties. They were players entering their primes (or already there, in the case of Rio), and don't count as young players in this context. Tevez was 24, so he's borderline. Rooney and Ronaldo were the only young players who were nailed on starters (honorable mention to Nani, who managed a couple of seasons as a starter during that period of success).
Yes, we had young players, and they were given chances, but that is a far cry from "most of the team consisting of young players." Most of the team consisted of players who were entering their primes (or were already there).
(I hope it is okey to bump this thread.)
In hindsight, was there a conflict of interest?
In hindsight, was there a conflict of interest?
Yes, and I'm glad Woodward did not back him and let him sell the likes of Martial, Pogba and let De Gea leave after not signing a new contract.