Mourinho did a great job building a young squad at Madrid. He brought in Varane, Coentrao, Ozil and Khedira and integrated them into a squad which won La Liga in 2011/12.
Mourinho and Man Utds conflicting interest
- Thread starter andersj
- Start date
(Bale will be 28 if we bring him in.)
- I never said neither was "stop gap",
- I never said always leaves his clubs with aging squads,
- I never said van Gaal left us with many great prospects
So, what's exactly your issue with his transfer dealings? Do you consider a 28 year old to be a player with only a few good years left in him? That's what Wenger's been doing at Arsenal over the last 10 seasons or so and look where it's got them to.
If someone like Bale comes here (pretty much doubt it), he'll instantly become one of the team's leading players in terms of creativity/scoring and that will take some pressure off the younger players like Martial and Rashford. They won't have to carry the whole team upon their shoulders, which was the issue under LvG, they'll be allowed to take more risks and make more mistakes and under this process they'll mature as footballers. They'll also have a good example of what they must accomplish in the training ground and in the dressing room. Then in 4-5 years time they'll hopefully take the leading roles themselves. If they don't make the cut, it'll be their fault and not Mourinho's.
That's good team planning, not short term viewing. And it's quite bizarre when you consider that what this team needs more than anything else is experience, character and "guaranteed" assists/goals in the attacking half.
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Nothing new in this- one of the big concerns about Jose was his short termism. But if he is successful I believe he will stay much longer. But it is a big if.
What a terrible thread.
He spunked money on players who won the treble and that is bad ?
All i'm getting from your post is 'serial winner Mourinho has never been anywhere for 4 years and so should not be allowed to spend money on players in case Man United sack him.' He might as well just give up management.
Again, terrible thread.
He spunked money on players who won the treble and that is bad ?
All i'm getting from your post is 'serial winner Mourinho has never been anywhere for 4 years and so should not be allowed to spend money on players in case Man United sack him.' He might as well just give up management.
Again, terrible thread.
There is no conflict of interest between him and the club as they both want success. the only conflict-of-interest seems to be with people who are willing to watch stagnation and decline all in the name of an unachievable fantasy. There are plenty of young players with more than a fecking decade of football ahead of them in the squad. Please name me a team in the world where every player is under 25 and are winning league or even cup titles?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp..../zlatan-ibrahimovic-barcelona-etoo-inter-hleb
This was an incredible deal for Inter. €46m plus Eto for Zlatan. Eto was only a year older at 28 and both were world class strikers. As others have said, Inter went on to win the Treble.
On youngsters - from MEN. This season Man Utd youngsters (anyone under 23) played 10,774 minutes in the league, only bettered by Spurs and Sunderland. This is 29% of all minutes available.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/man-utd-news-mourinho-fixtures-13126405
As a comparison Chelsea only played youngsters for 865 minutes (2% of available minutes).
Perhaps this is an indication he's building for the future and accepts playing young players is part of the Man Utd DNA.
Jose bought Bailly and Pogba who are both young players and could be here for a decade, neither are at their peak. He should have just bought Ramos and Ronaldo - oh we've already tried that before Jose arrived...
You need a balance of talented youngsters, players who have been at a club for a number of years and have good experience and the occasional old head. Jose's transfers were a good mixture and I have no reason to believe it will be different this year.
This was an incredible deal for Inter. €46m plus Eto for Zlatan. Eto was only a year older at 28 and both were world class strikers. As others have said, Inter went on to win the Treble.
On youngsters - from MEN. This season Man Utd youngsters (anyone under 23) played 10,774 minutes in the league, only bettered by Spurs and Sunderland. This is 29% of all minutes available.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/man-utd-news-mourinho-fixtures-13126405
As a comparison Chelsea only played youngsters for 865 minutes (2% of available minutes).
Perhaps this is an indication he's building for the future and accepts playing young players is part of the Man Utd DNA.
Jose bought Bailly and Pogba who are both young players and could be here for a decade, neither are at their peak. He should have just bought Ramos and Ronaldo - oh we've already tried that before Jose arrived...
You need a balance of talented youngsters, players who have been at a club for a number of years and have good experience and the occasional old head. Jose's transfers were a good mixture and I have no reason to believe it will be different this year.
People bashing him for Inter's transfers have the intellect of a single cell organism. That team brought the treble and finish 2nd in the Serie A and knock out stage CL despite the FSW's incompetence. Was it his fault the next manager or DoF failed to offload some players who price at the time of his departure is through the roof? The team he built at Chelsea did well for years after his departure, as did Madrid.
The notion that Jose 'destroyed' teams through bad transfer policy is nonsensical. He fell out spectacularly with his club in the past and likely will in the future but there's no tangible evidence that the teams he left were incapable of challenging, as evidenced even with Chelsea this season.
The notion that Jose 'destroyed' teams through bad transfer policy is nonsensical. He fell out spectacularly with his club in the past and likely will in the future but there's no tangible evidence that the teams he left were incapable of challenging, as evidenced even with Chelsea this season.
Mourinho was not the CFO of Inter Milan. He spent the money that was made available to him by the owners. If there finances were a mess, then the money should not have been available in the first place. The objective of the Inter Milan was to win the CL, which had been Moratti's dream.
To blame Mourinho for what happened to Inter after he left is ludicrous. He was given an objective and money to fulfill that objective, and he delivered.
I meant Portuguese supporters, but I suppose it somehow extends to any league where it isn't usual for managers to stay for more than a few seasons, which I guess is almost everywhere.
Our football directors are very important. Porto's president filled that role for a long time, then started delegating functions. Antero Henrique, whom did a good job for us in that regard (though concerns surfaced about his own honesty / conflict of interests) has just signed with PSG to do the same job there.
Of course whenever possible the club tries to satisfy the manager wishes. Mourinho built a CL winning team for us by signing cheap players from our league and even a Benfica reject (Maniche).
We also fired a manager before his first game (Luigi Delneri) because his choice of players to release was outrageous and would seriously harm the club.
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Stop knee jerk reactions, the transfer window is not even over yet. I don't care about anything as long as Jose wins some trophies and the PL for us.
I just want him to build a team that's going to play exciting football. I'm sick to death of watching negative tactics deployed due to the deficiencies in our squad.
So, we spent 300Mil+ under Moyes + LVG reigns and that pretty much got us nowhere and now people are worried about Mourinho signing key players and proven players that actually can get us somewhere.
Makes sense
Makes sense
I just want to win trophies. Which we're doing. So I'm not complaining in the slightest.
I was looking at Real Madrid a few months ago and the current team barely have Mourinho players, there is Modric, Varane and Coentrao. Even the backbone of his first Chelsea team was in the building when he was still managing Porto, Makélélé, Terry and Lampard.
Mourinho is good at completing a team, bringing what it lacks whether it is technique(Modric, Sneijder, Ozil) or character. I trust his judgement for the most part but the OP has a point if Mourinho wants to stay at United, he will have to mix things up and put as much thought in the mid to long term as he does with the short term.
Why the laughing face? He made valid points in his post, I don't see what there is to laugh about. As for your responses, they don't do much to clarify your original point.
(Bale will be 28 if we bring him in.)
- I never said neither was "stop gap",
- I never said always leaves his clubs with aging squads,
- I never said van Gaal left us with many great prospects
This thread doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Yeah I came to this thread at night when I was a bit drunk, now I think I'm sober and it's still fecking weird.
Zlatan is just 7 months younger than Eto'o. And he wanted to leave.
I think OP is saying that Jose tends to buy players who he believes would guarantee him success in the short term and it's to the long term detriment of the team but I might be mistaken.
If that's the case I disagree with OP. Jose has shifted out quite a bit of deadwood and will continue to do so till he has a team that is capable of winning titles.
We need proven winners, we're 'soft' right now.
I honestly don't care if Jose sells all the players and buys brand new aged 30+ every 2 seasons if it means we win the treble every second year.
I honestly don't care if Jose sells all the players and buys brand new aged 30+ every 2 seasons if it means we win the treble every second year.
Pogba and Bailly were young players and Mkhitaryan was 27 when signed. They were all long term signings. Only Zlatan was short term.
Then again maybe long term means different to different people.
It wasn't a criticism of Mourinho, last summer was a good window and we have young players in the team, so he doesn't need to add more. But it will be important to do it in the future.
I agree with that. I think this window should be used to sign first team players, once we are set then later we can worry about adding young players.
I don't know about conflict of interest, but there seems to be already a PR battle going between Jose and Ed. Mourinho publicly saying he gave Ed the list couple of months ago. Then after the Griezmann decided to stay, United had to immediately brief the media about how they moved to other target. It could be Ed trying to do damage control.
Bigger conflict of interest in our manager having an agent.
A conflict of interest isn't what you're talking about. His job is to win titles. If the board imposed a rule of 'No purchase of players over 29'. Or 'Players over 30 cannot cost more than £15m' that would be fine. But they don't seem to.
Success is his metric. If he signed a team of 50 year olds within his transfer budget and conspired to win the league (or better) that's his prerogative.
Also, they won the Treble after selling Ibra. Horrific example to use. Jose can sell the whole squad inside 24 months of he brings us that kind of success. I like many of our players, but I would like almost any player that played for us in a repeat treble season.
Interesting OP, but a bit sparse.
First off, I really underestimated how fragile people are to anything that can resemble some sort of criticism of Jose Mourinho. It is to the point that people stop being able to read.
As I said, I think Jose Mourinho has been brilliant with his transfer dealings at Man Utd. And actually, I thought he was pretty brilliant at Inter too. Looking after his interest. And I do not blame him. However, would Mourinho have spent the money at Inter the same way if he planned to stay for five more years? He inherited an aging squad at Inter. Would he have spent the majority of his funds on players at the end of their carriers if he had a longer perspective? I would say, probably not! And just to be very clear on this, I have not said that Mourinho has been poor in terms of transfer dealings. Nor do I expect him to.
And that is essentially my point. Due to the short life time of a manager, a manager and a club, not only Mourinho and not only Man Utd, will often have conflicting interests. It is therefor crucial that the management at the club look after the clubs long term future. There is a good chance that the manager will not. Actually it is a good chance that the manager can't afford to think that way.
I notice that several fans tend to think that we can afford to spend a lot. And I agree to some extent. We can probably afford a Bale and a Perisic. But we should be careful buying players at this stage of their carrier. According to a recent article* by Cox why could expect, on an average, to get three more years out of Bale and Perisic as world class players. That might be £30 mill per season for Gareth Bale and close to £10 mill for Perisic. Paul Pogba, probably better than both of them, will cost significantly less.
Any club, organization or company operating in a competetive market needs to invest their resources and funds wisely to keep up. We have a lot of money, but so do Bayern, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, City, Juve etc. If these teams invest smarter than us, they will keep beating us.
Ferguson built this club by buying players like Keane (22), Rio (23), Cole (23), Ince (21), Pallister (24), Irwin (24), Vidic (24), Carrick (24), Evra (24), Ronaldo (18), Rooney (18). Of course, lets mix in with a Cantona (26), Bruce (26), Yorke (26), Stam (25) and Hughes (25); players closer to their peak. Heck, if the price is right, lets bring in a Sheringham or a Zlatan too.
*http://www.espnfc.com/blog/tactics-...goalkeepers-and-central-defenders-peak-latest
He won them the Champions League after 50 years… but, yeah, what about those youngsters?
I think Mourinho wants to be here well beyond his contract.
You know.. maybe.. just maybe.. Griezman isn't on that list
We're the one asuming and creaming that Griezman is in the bag.
@andersj
Firstly, feel free to check my posts over the course of the season to see if i have criticized Mourinho or not. That's for the "fragile fans" remark...
I do get your point, most of people who have posted in your thread do. And all of us who don't share your view keep saying the same thing: That, although you have a point, you choose to look at our transfer dealings under Mourinho from an exremely narrowed point of view. In my previous post i mentioned that this squad desperatly needs a couple of ready-made solutions. Ferguson always added potential to a group of players who were already winners and later in his career he chose to stick with his overaged proven winners and not take any risk in the market. Mourinho has to sign serial winners and/or players who will help him perfect his vision for the first team. Once we get back to winning things, then it'll be easier to see where we can add world class potential in the team.
As for the piece from Cox, i can already envision the next manager (if Mourinho leaves in two years) looking at the prospect of working with a 30 yo Bale and then throwing his hands in the air and screaming "woe is me". The only worrying aspect with Bale is his recent injuries.
Firstly, feel free to check my posts over the course of the season to see if i have criticized Mourinho or not. That's for the "fragile fans" remark...
I do get your point, most of people who have posted in your thread do. And all of us who don't share your view keep saying the same thing: That, although you have a point, you choose to look at our transfer dealings under Mourinho from an exremely narrowed point of view. In my previous post i mentioned that this squad desperatly needs a couple of ready-made solutions. Ferguson always added potential to a group of players who were already winners and later in his career he chose to stick with his overaged proven winners and not take any risk in the market. Mourinho has to sign serial winners and/or players who will help him perfect his vision for the first team. Once we get back to winning things, then it'll be easier to see where we can add world class potential in the team.
As for the piece from Cox, i can already envision the next manager (if Mourinho leaves in two years) looking at the prospect of working with a 30 yo Bale and then throwing his hands in the air and screaming "woe is me". The only worrying aspect with Bale is his recent injuries.
The OP has a point.
He can't just fill the squad with experienced proven players. Or we risk a post-Fergie situation again.
The sample size is too small to accuse him of doing that right now.
We will have a clearer picture in September.
He can't just fill the squad with experienced proven players. Or we risk a post-Fergie situation again.
The sample size is too small to accuse him of doing that right now.
We will have a clearer picture in September.
Ferguson should have never bought Van Persie! He was to hard to replace. Something like this?
Instant success is essential for Manchester United to get back to the top tier that we belonged to when Sir Alex was here. But, after his retirement, the club has taken a scattergun approach to deal with it, throwing money anywhere, and selecting 3 managers, who are all in stark contrast to one another. It has resulted in us buying some players suited to a particular style of play and when the manager changes, players who are unable to adapt are moved on for a minimal fee, and new players are bought according to the new Manager's demands and so on. This isn't something which can be sustained by a club throughout a long period, however rich it might be.
This shows poor management and lack of long term vision of the club. Now compare us to well run clubs like Bayern, Barca, Dortmund even City nowadays who have developed a certain distinct style and invest in players and coaches who are suited to the club's system instead of simply throwing money any and every where.
There has been many examples where rich clubs became bankrupt because of their ineffective and incessant spending. After last season, I think the club is at a position where we need to start adhering to a similar policy, keeping not only the coach's demands but also the club's long term perspective in mind when purchasing players. Getting a Director of Football who is familiar with the club and it's runnings would be a good start. Giving all the power of transfer in the hands of a manager who may or may not be In here for the long haul can be a scary thing.
This shows poor management and lack of long term vision of the club. Now compare us to well run clubs like Bayern, Barca, Dortmund even City nowadays who have developed a certain distinct style and invest in players and coaches who are suited to the club's system instead of simply throwing money any and every where.
There has been many examples where rich clubs became bankrupt because of their ineffective and incessant spending. After last season, I think the club is at a position where we need to start adhering to a similar policy, keeping not only the coach's demands but also the club's long term perspective in mind when purchasing players. Getting a Director of Football who is familiar with the club and it's runnings would be a good start. Giving all the power of transfer in the hands of a manager who may or may not be In here for the long haul can be a scary thing.
I also agree that we should be looking to add some world class players. I also agree that we, due to our situation, should be more willing to pay for one or two "serial winners" or world class players. But as this is an expensive strategy, it is a strategy that we should be careful with. We need to consider how many of these can we make and we need to consider if the players is at that level (Perisic?!). There is probably also a need for a more careful and detailed analysis of the players fitness level at that age (ref Bale playing 17 and 24 league games the past two seasons). I also think there are some players that will be able to keep it going for a longer time period because of the qualities they have. Zlatan or Pirlo versus a "speed merchant" for instance.
Tell you what, if thats what you got from reading my posts, sure!
Just meant that even though he only had a season or two in him he won us the league. If buying three 28 year olds wins us the league again I'm all for it. We are not Ajax in a weaker league that can give youth 3-4 seasons to come good. Unfortunate because I love those clubs but we need results every year.
And i agree that your concerns are valid. I also agree with the question mark and the exclamation mark after Perisic's name. But i still think that 27/28 is a very good age for a top class footballer when you consider the bags of experience, the leadership skills and the immediate injection of quality he will bring to the table. It's worth the extra pounds when your squad is already full of potential, like ours, but lacks in what the our own manager has described as mental strength. Of course i won't put Perisic in that bracket but i believe that Bale (British, winner mentality, top player) fits the bill. Plus we can both agree that Mourinho's first summer window didn't show any intention to crowd the squad with players near their 30s. If this will be the case this time around, i'm sure he will recieve a fair share of criticism from the fans. And tbh i don't think Woodward would ever allow him to send away young talents like Martial and Rashford in order to bring in two 30 year olds. I guess that's why i feel less stressed about the whole situation.
United's income is much higher than Inter's was. The club is safe. Last November the club debut was £388m but the annual turnover was £480m.