Most overrated ex Manchester United players

Rockets Redglare said:
Just out of curiosity do you rate Heinze, Valencia, Javier Hernandez and Ander Herrera above Evra, Carrick, Andy Cole and Rio Ferdinand?

Surely that list of players shows the difference between a great season and a great career?
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Heinze is a player that came immediately to mind on seeing the thread title. Due to the circumstances of his departure he isn't held in that high regard but there was a period when he was overrated. We were going through something of a transitional phase and the fact he threw himself into some tackles seemed to make us blind to his limitations.
 
DanH said:
Heinze is a player that came immediately to mind on seeing the thread title. Due to the circumstances of his departure he isn't held in that high regard but there was a period when he was overrated. We were going through something of a transitional phase and the fact he threw himself into some tackles seemed to make us blind to his limitations.
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Heinze was pretty shit tbh, never rated him.
 
GledTheRed said:
Heinze was pretty shit tbh, never rated him.
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The same Heinze that the players voted him the first non European Matt Busby player of the year. Yeah, pretty shit tbh, Jesus. Was fantastic for us until he got crocked and Fergie discovered Evra. I know, he flirted with Liverpool, but that doesn't mean he was shit.
 
Nobby style said:
The same Heinze that the players voted him the first non European Matt Busby player of the year. Yeah, pretty shit tbh, Jesus. Was fantastic for us until he got crocked and Fergie discovered Evra. I know, he flirted with Liverpool, but that doesn't mean he was shit.
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I didn't rate him, was hyped due his toughness and warrior attitude.

All in all, gash!
 
Bit harsh on Mata. We bought a tiny number 10 who couldnt cover ground and stuck him out wide for most of his career
 
DanH said:
Heinze is a player that came immediately to mind on seeing the thread title. Due to the circumstances of his departure he isn't held in that high regard but there was a period when he was overrated. We were going through something of a transitional phase and the fact he threw himself into some tackles seemed to make us blind to his limitations.
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Agree 100%
 
matt10000 said:
Gary Neville has said that there were more talented players than him that didn’t make it. There is a thin line and attitude and hard work count for a lot
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As a player, you can be the most talented player in the world but it means othing if you don't have the right attitude and work ethic, a prime example of that at United is Paul Pogba., Neville self-deprecates his own career, personally I think he does himself a diservice, you don't play for United that length of time under SAF without being a pretty good player.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
That’s literally missed the entire point of what I said. United time specific.
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If anything was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because I can't see any way in which Maguire was the 'clear winner' over Varane during their shared time at United.
 
jem said:
If anything was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt because I can't see any way in which Maguire was the 'clear winner' over Varane during their shared time at United.
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That makes no sense but cheers.
 
Pascal Quiff said:
Scholes. Not as good as Keane and not always trusted by Fergie. Fantastic player but the fact that he's been mentioned in the 'top 25 players since 2002' thread shows how his legend has grown.

For balance, I'm the same on Xabi Alonso for us....very overrated.
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Thinking Scholes and Xabi Alonso were overrated says a lot about your understanding of football.
 
Mickson said:
He didn't lead United. Keane might have done it. Ronaldo or Rooney might have done it. But never Paul Scholes. If we look at the most important games United had... CL-semifinal 99, Scholes on the bench, CL final 2008 Scholes subbed off, CL final 2009 didn't even start. How was he the most important player? Never even once club's player of the season. IMO all this shows that Scholes was overrated. Most of you can't even argue about it, it's just "but he was the best!" "How can you say that!". As I said, Scholes was extremely good, a very, very good and even great player for a long time, but he was never the most important player, he wasn't even the most important midfielder for long spells at his own club.
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There are a number of factors in regards to the games you mentioned. He had a medical condition causing him double vision. Also what wasn't know at the time, was that his young son was disabled and he was up most nights with him and not getting any sleep and going into training and matches exhausted. He never told Fergie at the time.
 
To be fair there is a quite a difference between overrated and saying someone was bad. Scholes was a great player, world class, but in previous discussions on him I have read stuff along the lines of him being better than Zidane, as good as Xavi. That would be overrating him. It has been fascinating to me how Scholes and Giggs standings have flipped in the last 10 years. At the point of their retirements I would say that it was fairly clear, and popularly felt that Giggs had the greater career and had been the slightly better player. Not even close now, Scholes is peerless with Giggs often being talked about as a James Milner style long service workhorse.
 
Scanny said:
Yep. This thread is a car crash.
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I've read George Best, Ruud and Becks. Expecting Rooney, Ronaldo and Cantona to pop up at some point. Might as well say every player we have ever had has been over rated.
 
CallyRed said:
I've read George Best, Ruud and Becks. Expecting Rooney, Ronaldo and Cantona to pop up at some point. Might as well say every player we have ever had has been over rated.
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Think Rooney might already have come up. Basically our entire XI from a period of great success were just winging it.
 
CallyRed said:
I've read George Best, Ruud and Becks. Expecting Rooney, Ronaldo and Cantona to pop up at some point. Might as well say every player we have ever had has been over rated.
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I’m blocking anyone who says Cantona was overrated. That’s my red line right there.
 
Pascal Quiff said:
Scholes. Not as good as Keane and not always trusted by Fergie. Fantastic player but the fact that he's been mentioned in the 'top 25 players since 2002' thread shows how his legend has grown.

For balance, I'm the same on Xabi Alonso for us....very overrated.
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hahaha……SAF asked Scholes to come out of retirement because…….coz he was Paul Scholes.
 
Pascal Quiff said:
Scholes. Not as good as Keane and not always trusted by Fergie. Fantastic player but the fact that he's been mentioned in the 'top 25 players since 2002' thread shows how his legend has grown.

For balance, I'm the same on Xabi Alonso for us....very overrated.
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Liverpool supporter, tells you everything you need to know.
 
GazTheLegend said:
For me it's Juan Veron. Worse than every one of our midfielders of the time, and went on to disappoint at Chelsea too. Maybe would work better in the modern game, but really disappointing and although he was crap, seems to still remain highly overrated for one or two performances+ his time at Lazio.
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He was widely criticised as a flop of a signing. I don't think anyone is overrating him.

At most, people just think of what could have been, because he was a good player but just not suited to English football at the time, when it was a lot more hectic and fast paced.

Him and Barthez are two players that I think would suit English football more now than they did when they played.
 
Scottynaldinho said:
My list goes like this:
1: Nani - you'd think he was the second coming of Cristiano)

2: Ander Herrera - again, when you read about him now you'd see the description of Roy Keane)

3: Zlatan - only the number of goals is mentioned without the mention of inconsistency and how detrimental he was to our attack

4: Valencia - A bit harsh here but he only had a couple of good seasons and then the mix of average/bad seasons

5: Gary Neville - A brilliant player and won everything just not at the same level as others in the class of 92
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Nani had moments of brilliance but was horrendously inconsistent, I’m not sure who you do be talking to that has him in the same bracket as CR7.

Same for Herrera, good player, loved the club and loved by the fans but I have never heard anyone say he was on the same level as Keane.

Valencia had a couple of brilliant seasons as a right wing, then slowly turned into one of the most dependable right backs and one of our most consistent performers post Sir Alex, definitely not overrated.
 
I don't think Veron as a player generally was overrated for us. His time in England wasn't a success but you can't deny that on his day he was class.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
That makes no sense but cheers.
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What are you having trouble understanding? You seem to be saying that over the last 3 years, Maguire was clearly better than Varane. I would strongly disagree with that. Even if you add into the equation the two seasons Maguire had at United pre-Varane, I hardly think that swings the balance in his favour (certainly not in any kind of 'clear' way), given that Maguires first season was ok, and his second was marked by a calamity-filled first half (post-Mykonos), which was followed by a pretty good second half. If that’s not what you are saying, then how about explaining your point rather than hiding behind pathetic, glib replies?
 
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jem said:
What are you having trouble understanding? You seem to be saying that over the last 3 years, Maguire was clearly better than Varane. I would strongly disagree with that. Even if you add into the equation the two seasons Maguire had at United pre-Varane, I hardly think that swings the balance in his favour (certainly not in any kind of 'clear' way), given that Maguires first season was ok, and his second was marked by a calamity-filled first half (post-Mykonos), which was followed by a pretty good second half. If that’s not what you are saying, then how about explaining your point rather than hiding behind pathetic, glib replies?
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Might want to look up the definition of glib, not sure why you’re being rude though. Odd. I can’t really spell it out any clearer. Maguire in his time at United has been better than Varane in his time at United.
 
Mickson said:
It's funny that every argument I see about Scholes is that a coach said something nice about him. Scholes never won any personal awards, never got a vote in the balon d'or, never won player of the year even at United, or Premier League. As I said, he was very, very good for a long time, and at one point he was extremely good for his age, but he was never one of the best in the world. He was never the key player who won United or England a trophy like Pirlo, Xavi, Zidane, even Modric or Kaka or plenty others did.
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... which is why he was underrated, not overrated.

The 'personal awards' argument seems to have gained more legitimacy in the past 10-15 years to help people win an argument online, but growing up it was generally seen as more of a popularity contest than an accurate barometer of the best players in the world. In the 98/99 season, David Ginola won the PFA player of the year after scoring 3 PL goals to help guide Spurs to an 11th placed finish. Us United fans laughed it off and didn't really care at the time, as we were busy celebrating the treble. Whereas now I see fans frothing at the mouth when discussing the worthy winners of individual awards. It's a little odd.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
... which is why he was underrated, not overrated.

The 'personal awards' argument seems to have gained more legitimacy in the past 10-15 years to help people win an argument online, but growing up it was generally seen as more of a popularity contest than an accurate barometer of the best players in the world. In the 98/99 season, David Ginola won the PFA player of the year after scoring 3 PL goals to help guide Spurs to an 11th placed finish. Us United fans laughed it off and didn't really care at the time, as we were busy celebrating the treble. Whereas now I see fans frothing at the mouth when discussing the worthy winners of individual awards. It's a little odd.
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No, it's why he's overrated. He wasn't rated as the best during his time, but his legacy has grown after his career. Almost all ballon d'or winners and PFA POTY are pretty accurate when you look at the winners, and even if not, the best players get a lot of votes. I don't even think Scholes got one ballon d'or vote in his career. If his peers thought he was so brilliant they would've voted for him. To say Scholes was one of the best players in the world is to rewrite history. He was very, very good though.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Might want to look up the definition of glib, not sure why you’re being rude though. Odd. I can’t really spell it out any clearer. Maguire in his time at United has been better than Varane in his time at United.
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And I couldn’t have spelled it out any more clearly that I disagreed with that take; you were the one who kept insisting (in a rather glib manner) that I had missed some easy-to-understand point, despite my having laid out my responses in a pretty straightforward manner.
 
dinostar77 said:
There are a number of factors in regards to the games you mentioned. He had a medical condition causing him double vision. Also what wasn't know at the time, was that his young son was disabled and he was up most nights with him and not getting any sleep and going into training and matches exhausted. He never told Fergie at the time.
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I had no idea about this. Just makes him even more impressive. Another reason we were able to hold on to him for his whole career too.
 
Mickson said:
No, it's why he's overrated. He wasn't rated as the best during his time, but his legacy has grown after his career. Almost all ballon d'or winners and PFA POTY are pretty accurate when you look at the winners, and even if not, the best players get a lot of votes. I don't even think Scholes got one ballon d'or vote in his career. If his peers thought he was so brilliant they would've voted for him. To say Scholes was one of the best players in the world is to rewrite history. He was very, very good though.
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Did David Ginola deserve to win the PFA player of the year in 98/99 after scoring 3 PL goals as Spurs finished 11th? What about Michael Owen winning the Ballon d'Or after scoring 16 PL goals? The likes of Nedved and Cannavaro being adjudged to be the best player in the world over Henry didn't seem correct to me at the time, hence I've never put too much stock in individual awards.
 
jem said:
And I couldn’t have spelled it out any more clearly that I disagreed with that take; you were the one who kept insisting (in a rather glib manner) that I had missed some easy-to-understand point, despite my having laid out my responses in a pretty straightforward manner.
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You replied including Real Madrid time. Clearly missing the point of my post, I pointed that out.
What makes no sense is you said you tried to ‘give the benefit’ of the doubt. You didn’t read a post properly, not my problem. I pointed that out.
You’ve then continued on, if you don’t agree you don’t agree but Varane had, at most, what 2/3 of a season he was decent here. Maguire first season alone was better but really this is my opinion that Varane (at United) really has been bang average in the grand scheme of things, not that Maguire has been great. Maguire also displaced Varane just last season after the latter’s errors. I don’t really see how you think you have an argument unless you think Maguires been awful or, more likely, you just misread the original post and have clogged up the thread since.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
You replied including Real Madrid time. Clearly missing the point of my post, I pointed that out.
What makes no sense is you said you tried to ‘give the benefit’ of the doubt. You didn’t read a post properly, not my problem. I pointed that out.
You’ve then continued on, if you don’t agree you don’t agree but Varane had, at most, what 2/3 of a season he was decent here. Maguire first season alone was better but really this is my opinion that Varane (at United) really has been bang average in the grand scheme of things, not that Maguire has been great. Maguire also displaced Varane just last season after the latter’s errors. I don’t really see how you think you have an argument unless you think Maguires been awful or, more likely, you just misread the original post and have clogged up the thread since.
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No, quite simply I think Varane in ETH’s first season was far better than anything Maguire has shown. Last season was a pretty good one for Maguire, but even then I don’t think much better than Varane last year, and nowhere near as good as Varane in 2022-23. Varane’s first season was a bit underwhelming but not as calamitous as Maguire that year. So already, the claim of Maguire being clearly better during their shared time at United is shaky, in my opinion, and I don’t think Maguire’s first two seasons do much to bolster his United C.V.
 
jem said:
No, quite simply I think Varane in ETH’s first season was far better than anything Maguire has shown. Last season was a pretty good one for Maguire, but even then I don’t think much better than Varane last year, and nowhere near as good as Varane in 2022-23. Varane’s first season was a bit underwhelming but not as calamitous as Maguire that year. So already, the claim of Maguire being clearly better during their shared time at United is shaky, in my opinion, and I don’t think Maguire’s first two seasons do much to bolster his United C.V.
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This. The partnership of Varane and Martínez in 2022-23 is underrated.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Did David Ginola deserve to win the PFA player of the year in 98/99 after scoring 3 PL goals as Spurs finished 11th? What about Michael Owen winning the Ballon d'Or after scoring 16 PL goals? The likes of Nedved and Cannavaro being adjudged to be the best player in the world over Henry didn't seem correct to me at the time, hence I've never put too much stock in individual awards.
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I said almost all. You will always find the odd one out, but in the end, it's pretty accurate. And you can ask yourself why Scholes never won any individual awards or barely was in the Premier League team of the year.
 
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