Good point on him and Ander giving fouls away, but that's a bi-product of their pressing style.
If those two get a consistent run in midfield we will undoubtedly benefit from it.
28
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 38
- Goals
- 1
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
Good point on him and Ander giving fouls away, but that's a bi-product of their pressing style.
If those two get a consistent run in midfield we will undoubtedly benefit from it.
Seems like the entire problem is that you have outrageous expectations for a defensive midfielder.
He wins the ball back, he plays the ball wide or to a more creative player. He's doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing. Did you ever watch Claude Makelele at Real Madrid and then Chelsea? Your opinion of Schneiderlin seems to be similar to Perez's opinion of Makelele when Madrid sold him. He said this about him:
"We will not miss Makélelé. His technique is average, he lacks the speed and skill to take the ball past opponents, and ninety percent of his distribution either goes backwards or sideways. He wasn't a header of the ball and he rarely passed the ball more than three metres"
And everyone thought he was mental. Because he was mental. Makelele was being criticised for not doing things that weren't expected of a player in his position by a man who didn't really understand what a player in that position is supposed to do. That Madrid team was livid they'd binned Makelele. He went on to be part of the core of that rock-solid Chelsea side. He was the undisputed best in the world in that position.He didn't score goals, take people on, carve open defences. He won the ball back and gave it to players who can score goals and can carve open defences.
You make reference to Schneiderlin being a "glorified water carrier", but don't seem to realise how important that role is. You say Matic is better because he can "go past people in midfield", despite it not being Schneiderlin's job to dribble past people and isn't to be expected of a defensive midfielder. Dribbling in your own half in front of your own back four would be mad. I'm glad he doesn't do that! It would be like expecting Martial to make more goal-line clearances, and dubbing him not good enough when he doesn't. Not his job.
There can't be any serious complaints with Morgan's work for the club this season. He was never intended to be a playmaker or a scorer. Be reads danger, breaks up opposing play and begins possession.
If there's a complaint to be made it's that we don't do very much with our possession in midfield, but that's a complaint to be directed at the manager, not our midfielders.
If there's a complaint to be made it's that we don't do very much with our possession in midfield, but that's a complaint to be directed at the manager, not our midfielders.
If that's all he's meant to be doing then there really is no excuse for how long he actually takes to pass the ball. The man constantly spends an absolute age deciding which 5 yard pass to make, its just an unnecessary addition to how slow our play already is.
Not only that, he all makes far too many pointless passes. There's several times this season where he's had 5/10 yards in front of him, and instead of just moving with the ball into it, he'll knock it 5 yards to his right, wonder forward into the gap, then receive it again... which again, just pointlessly slow downs our play.
I get that he's there exclusively to break up the play... but that still doesn't excuse being slow/ponderous when in possession.
Yep. Wanting a Manchester United midfielder to be a better passer of the ball and be more positive with it is an outrageous expectation to have. No top team in the world has a player as limited as him in their starting lineup. Bayern, Barca, Real, City, PSG all have much more rounded players in that position. United themselves have never had a player like him. Scholes, Carrick, Keane, Fletcher were all more all rounded with the ball. Not sure what's up with the Makalele comparison. Their problem was as much getting rid of him as it was to decide they did not need that kind of player at all. I acknowledge the need for a midfielder who's defensively good but would prefer someone who's not as limited.
Second, I never said Matic was better because he could go past people. It's a huge plus though when your DM can do that as well being a good passer. I don't expect Schneiderlin to do that and never said that anywhere.
Should be one of the first names on the team sheet, no question.
But the stats show that Schneiderlin is a very good, accurate passer with a decent range. He is statistically our most accurate passer in the whole squad and one of the most accurate in the league currently. But when the stats are presented, you suggest they are irrelevant or skewed or whatever. So it's a pointless discussion.
The Makelele comparison was obvious really. He was a 'limited' player who had a very straight forward role in the teams he played for, and he did it well. Better than anyone. He was incredibly successful with Madrid and Chelsea especially, and was a hugely important player in both sides. Schneiderlin's role in this team is very similar, but that 'limited' role is somehow deemed not enough, which to me, is bonkers.
He's the type of player we've been crying out for since Keano quit. I'm not comparing the two but he adds that bit of steel to the midfield that has been absent for a long time. I can't believe that someone described him as a 'donkey' in the match day thread.
I feel you're still missing the point @Akash is making. His main point which I agree with was Schneiderlin is limited on the ball when compared to other players playing the DM position for the best teams across Europe. With regards to the stats, Tiote, Ki, Birtton and Coquelin have a better passing accuracy this season but guess what they're also limited on the ball. We play in a possession based team so the stats will obviously look good for Morgan but its what he does with the ball that counts and he's doing very little with it atm.
While Makelele was limited on the ball, he was the best ball winner and protector of the back four of his generation IMO. Schneiderlin's defensive game is no where near that level so he can't be awarded the compromise Makelele was.
you doubt that, look at where Carrick was at his 26, we only start to sing hard to believe chant at his 31/32, was always in the shadow of Scholes, remember so many average sideways passing seasons from him,
Schneiderlin is a bit different player and will become monster of a midfielder when using him in high line system, letting him tackle higher up the pitch, and he showed in numerous games he's great passer, he's just restricted too much to the strictly defensive job under Luis van Clown who only seemed before his arrival to get the best out of his player, the only player who he got best out of has been Young and for that reason he's benched a lot..
The passer is always dependant on other players runs or positioning and it's the same for Schneiderlin or even Carrick and Schweinsteiger, it's no mystery if they all struggled in that area, we are wank without the ball our players hide behind opponents and leave the ball carrier with little options.
So while I agree that he isn't even close to Busquets or whoever was used as a comparison, he is also victim of our poor off the ball game.
What nonsense.
*applause*
Carrick's passing ability was always there. He even had the ability to go past people when he first joined.
his passing wasn't average or sideways at all. He didn't have to pass as aggressively/progressively as he did at 31/32, because Scholes/Fletcher were there, but he was always a superb passer. That zip and speed was always obvious. His ability to pass with two quick touches was always there. He just honed it with age.
I have to agree with the comment you replied to: Schneiderlin's passing isn't going to improve by much, if at all. He does take a bit too long on the ball, in my opinion. And, even worse, he doesn't move with the ball while he's waiting for the pass. He often slows down completely.
I don't know if that'll improve either, to be honest. His levels of comfort on the ball are unlikely to improve significantly at this age.
I'm not comparing their abilities as footballers. I am comparing the restricted role both of them have in the teams they played in. I am arguing that there is definitely room for a 'glorified water carrier' in this team, and that Schneiderlin is doing a fine job at it. Schneiderlin is nowhere near the problem with this team.
I think you're right in that we'll benefit, but Herrera is especially guilty of being overly competitive and regularly seems to get booked and give away stupid, rather than tactical fouls. Hes also walked the line a few times for a red card this season.
With our current options i'd play both with schweinsteiger, but would they get in arsenal, city, chelsea or spurs teams? Not sure herrera or schweinsteiger do. Maybe schneiderlin. All good options but are they world beaters? No.
I don't like this type of remarks, players don't need to be world beaters, we only need to create the right synergy. Tiago and Gabi, weren't world beaters but they controlled or locked most of their opponents.
Football is a team sport, the only thing that matters is Synergy, judging players individually is useless, excepting/relying on, individual brilliance is often futile.
Yes, the insinuation that Coquelin isn't obviously that much better than Schneiderlin, like you've been claiming, is there. I've never claimed otherwise.
Sorry but the way the Cafs been going the past month, its kind of hard to tell.
Yeah it's ridiculous and even laughable how some on here rate him as "not United quality."
Like you said, the team has been dying for a player of his ilk for years.
Thought he was being signed to screen the back four while our attacking players went at it, not being used correctly imo in a low risk dull system.
He was so good defensively and moving the ball forward. Class performance from him.
I'm sure some championship midfields have great "synergy", maybe we should sign them.
"we only need to create the right synergy" - nonsense. While its important, the players have to be of a certain calibre for that synergy to actually help the club acheive anything, and ours aren't.
I'd argue most of our players are of the calibre needed, though there are obviously areas in which we need to strengthen.
National team caps are not a judge of how good or bad a player is. Coquelin is a much better defensive midfield player than Schneiderlin but your man is perhaps better at passing, moving the ball forward, and other attacking attributes. Coquelin is a better screen for the defence, much like Wanyama was for Southampton. And probably a more limited player who specialises in breaking up play and shielding the defence.
As for national team caps, Coquelin was in the wilderness- on loan at Charlton - until last winter. He only emerged as a top player in December 2014 or maybe January 2015. Schneiderlin has been on the map for some time now, which explains why one has caps and the other doesn't. Also France have the likes of Diarra and one other guy (forgot his name) at DM. When one of them moves on, Coquelin might get a look in.
Coquelin is pretty unlucky. If it weren't for Diarra's great revival at Marseille this season, I'm sure he would have been called up for France. He is a good player who has improved so much in one year. Midfield is our best area (Cabaye might end up on the bench at the Euros) by far in quality and diversity.
I was merely using national team caps to point out that if Coquelin was that much better than Schneiderlin, you'd expect him to have gotten a call up, though there's obviously more to it than that. It was a throw-away comment that Akash for some reason latched onto (which seems to be a theme with him).
I rate Coquelin and Schneiderlin about the same, though they excel in different areas. I don't agree that he's a much better defensive midfielder, though. Schneiderlin only played B2B last season for Southampton because Wanyama's useless on the ball, but too good of a player to act as a backup for Schneiderlin. As luck would have it, Morgan turned out to be a pretty good B2B mid, so it worked out for them.
Well, If they are sub par players.
I haven't seen Marseille once this year, but keep reading that. How well is Diarra playing? Will he start the Euros behind Matuidi and Pogba?
If he isn't injured, there is little doubt he'll start indeed. Diarra has displayed the most consistent form since August out of all the French CMs. Tackling, aggression, leadership shown in tough times and passing have all been impressive.
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...rlin-remarkable-manchester-united-record.aspx
SCHNEIDERLIN'S REMARKABLE RECORD
Much has been made of Morgan Schneiderlin's importance to the Manchester United cause and the statistics back the theory that the summer signing from Southampton is capable of being a huge influence.
Since the Frenchman's return to the starting line-up for the final game of the year against Chelsea, the Reds regained form after a four-match losing run and, while no one individual is solely responsible for any outcome, it is fair to say the record with him in the side is pretty remarkable.
The 2-1 success over Swansea City last time out was Schneiderlin's 18th appearance for the club and his only loss came against the Welsh outfit back in August. Even then, he was not actually on the field when United failed to find a route back into the game as he was withdrawn after 70 minutes, soon after Bafetimbi Gomis's winner.
The 26-year-old was part of a winning team in his opening three fixtures for the Reds, while his only substitute appearance came in the memorable 3-1 victory over Liverpool as he entered the fray with Louis van Gaal's men 2-0 ahead.
The overall record for games Schneiderlin has featured in is a healthy: P18, W10, D7, L1, GF25, GA10. Ten clean sheets have been kept in that period and he has one goal to his name - the opener in the impressive 3-0 triumph at Everton.
By his own admission, he needed time to adapt to life at Old Trafford but it is clear that 2016 could be a big year for the France international as he will look to maintain his excellent on-field record and display his best form.
Much has been made of Morgan Schneiderlin's importance to the Manchester United cause and the statistics back the theory that the summer signing from Southampton is capable of being a huge influence.
Since the Frenchman's return to the starting line-up for the final game of the year against Chelsea, the Reds regained form after a four-match losing run and, while no one individual is solely responsible for any outcome, it is fair to say the record with him in the side is pretty remarkable.
The 2-1 success over Swansea City last time out was Schneiderlin's 18th appearance for the club and his only loss came against the Welsh outfit back in August. Even then, he was not actually on the field when United failed to find a route back into the game as he was withdrawn after 70 minutes, soon after Bafetimbi Gomis's winner.
The 26-year-old was part of a winning team in his opening three fixtures for the Reds, while his only substitute appearance came in the memorable 3-1 victory over Liverpool as he entered the fray with Louis van Gaal's men 2-0 ahead.
The overall record for games Schneiderlin has featured in is a healthy: P18, W10, D7, L1, GF25, GA10. Ten clean sheets have been kept in that period and he has one goal to his name - the opener in the impressive 3-0 triumph at Everton.
By his own admission, he needed time to adapt to life at Old Trafford but it is clear that 2016 could be a big year for the France international as he will look to maintain his excellent on-field record and display his best form.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-could-without-bastian-7151206
Mirror reporting that he may also be out against Newcastle.
Mirror reporting that he may also be out against Newcastle.
Is he still talking about football? All I keep seeing is "red zone". What the shite does that mean?
red zone
NFL term meaning the ball within 20 yards of the n-zone. Why he is using it in an interview about football, I have no idea. That guy has lost the plot.
Schneiderlin's issue is not that he's a limited passer, it's that he's a stupid passer. His pass selection has been really poor in his time here. He could, should and will be much better on the ball than he has been so far. People defending that side of his game this season are simply selling him short by setting the bar so low. Makelele was a more limited passer technically but he used the ball so much more efficiently and intelligently.
I doubt he means that, I think he just means danger zone because Schneids has played a lot of games.
I like the line "I don't take risks"... we fecking know mate, your players don't either.
Red zone is the new "knackered"
- Status