[Nighteyes]

How come it's described as a "one man CM" when Carrick was abandoned in midfield by Schweinsteiger or Fellaini, but it's not described as the same when Schneiderlin was abandoned by Schweinsteiger earlier in the season? Probably because it was less visible, because Carrick has little-to-no defensive resilience these days, and Schneiderlin is very robust in that respect and doesn't get walked through. Yet somehow, that is a mark against him, for doing his job well it seems.

That never happened and I never said Schweinstiger abandoned Carrick. The problem was Fellaini or rather LVG playing Fellaini in a way which ensured we were completely open in midfield. If you're saying playing next to Fellaini and Schweinstiger is comparable I'm not sure what to say to that...

Also, people moaning about the Arsenal game...he was only dropped for it because he was diabolical against Wolfsborg and very lucky not to be sent off.

The last bit about relegation was hyperbole, but everything else have been said about him in this very thread. And it's precious of you to accuse others of having no argument, given that you say the same thing every time (not good enough on the ball), without being able to substantiate it, and then hand-waving away any evidence to the contrary.

An argument which has been made before but seeing as you're a lazy arse I'll repeat it. Having 90% passing success means nothing. Leon Britton had that for ages and his passing is nowhere near good enough for us. Scheniderlin's passing ability when it comes to feeding it to the forward players is abysmal. Even now when Carrick get's the ball, he's excellent at fizzing it through to our more creative players. Coquelin gets the ball and immediately looks forward to their forward players. Matic has been crap this season but he's another who's excellent at playing between the lines. Someone brought up Schneiderlin's passing stats for one of the games earlier in the thread and a bulk of his passes were to the back 4.

No one expects him to be threading through balls to Martial. But I do expect him to be more pro-active with his passing and show a bit more awareness when he's on the ball and even off the ball. Also just noticed he's now overtaken the fouling machine Lucas as player with the most fouls/game in the league which is completely unsurprising given the number of times he has to resort to fouling people due to being all over the place.

At the very least, I expected a player of Fletcher's quality. Someone who's good defensively but is a good passer and can drive the team forward when required. I haven't seen anything from Morgan so far to suggests he has that in his locker. I hope he does and goes on to improve but in his current guise he's far too limited.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

I really like schneiderlin and think he goes under the radar a bit sometimes, the amount of brilliant interceptions and tackles he makes is great.

First half today I thought he looked shaky and got caught on the ball a couple of times also I remember him pinging quite a poor pass out of play. Second half he was better and did what he's best at which is winning the ball and moving it along to someone else. Solid performance with a few dodgy moments first half but he's hardly played so it's to be expected.

 

[Mark_GrumpyLion]

Great signing, very happy we have him in the team.

 

[Lawman]

Exactly what we needed in the team. I hope he gets a little more tidy in possession but a very shrewd signing.

 

[Halftrack]

An argument which has been made before but seeing as you're a lazy arse I'll repeat it. Having 90% passing success means nothing. Leon Britton had that for ages and his passing is nowhere near good enough for us. Scheniderlin's passing ability when it comes to feeding it to the forward players is abysmal. Even now when Carrick get's the ball, he's excellent at fizzing it through to our more creative players. Coquelin gets the ball and immediately looks forward to their forward players. Matic has been crap this season but he's another who's excellent at playing between the lines. Someone brought up Schneiderlin's passing stats for one of the games earlier in the thread and a bulk of his passes were to the back 4.

Feck off, yeah?

And stats from ONE game? That proves what? That he, that one game, played a lot of back passes?

But hey, since you've now officially opened the floor for the use of stats, let us look at some more advanced stats (American-style). I'll preface this (as usual) by saying that I'm very much aware of the fact that stats don't tell the whole story, but they can still be useful. I decided to compare Morgan to the two players you hold up as examples for him to follow, namely Matic and Coquelin. For practical reasons, the stats are PL only.

First off, let's take a look at last seasons stats (the season I often point to when people who'd never seen him play before arrived here claim that he isn't good enough for us).

Hmm, it would appear as if Morgan outperformed both of them, at least statistically, in almost every single metric (I opted to exlclude Pass Completion, as you seem to have an aversion to it). But I guess he could still learn a thing or two about passing the ball forward or creating chances from them.

Okay, let's look at this season.

(Matic is still here because... whatever). Oh, would you look at that? Again we see Morgan outperforming those he should be taking lessons from (except for chances created, where Matic, despite being a bit shit, outperforms the other two).

He hasn't been amazing at contributing to our attack, but as his stats from last season show, he's very much capable of doing so. And the stats from this season show that the "much better" Coquelin hasn't actually been that much better. So the question is, are you now willing to accept that it might come down the role he's being asked to play for us, or are you going to keep harping on about him being "bang average" and "not good enough on the ball" while holding up Matic (who you, strangely, seem more willing to credit for what he did last season than you do Schneiderlin) and Coquelin as shining beacons of DM perfection?

(No, I'm not basing my argument that Schneiderlin is as good as the other two on stats, but they do support the impression I've gotten from watching them).

 

[Nighteyes]

He hasn't been amazing at contributing to our attack, but as his stats from last season show, he's very much capable of doing so. And the stats from this season show that the "much better" Coquelin hasn't actually been that much better. So the question is, are you now willing to accept that it might come down the role he's being asked to play for us, or are you going to keep harping on about him being "bang average" and "not good enough on the ball" while holding up Matic (who you, strangely, seem more willing to credit for what he did last season than you do Schneiderlin) and Coquelin as shining beacons of DM perfection?

(No, I'm not basing my argument that Schneiderlin is as good as the other two on stats, but they do support the impression I've gotten from watching them).

I really have no idea what those stats are meant to show? Did you actually read my post? Do you have stats for how many of those forward passes were played to non-defenders? Do you have stats for for many of those forward passes were played to our creative players and strikers? Do you have stats for how quickly he can regain possession and set up a counter attack? Taking the United example, Are you seriously telling me there's no difference between Carrick's passing when he plays there compared to Schneiderlin? Or even Fletcher? I'm saying the role he plays should require him to do a lot more than just winning the ball and laying it off. That's the level we should be looking at. He needs to take on more responsibility and start becoming more than just a glorified water carrier. So far, he's done the bare minimum, nothing more.

And you keep on using strawman arguments. Where have I said Coquelin is the perfect DM? If you can't argue based on what I've posted then don't bother. Matic has been rubbish this season, no arguments but he was excellent last season and unlike Schneiderlin he can also go past people in midfield which is a big plus. I didn't see much of Schneiderlin last season so I'm judging him purely on what I've seen for United.

 

[Halftrack]

I really have no idea what those stats are meant to show? Did you actually read my post? Do you have stats for how many of those forward passes were played to non-defenders? Do you have stats for for many of those forward passes were played to our creative players and strikers? Do you have stats for how quickly he can regain possession and set up a counter attack? Taking the United example, Are you seriously telling me there's no difference between Carrick's passing when he plays there compared to Schneiderlin? Or even Fletcher? I'm saying the role he plays should require him to do a lot more than just winning the ball and laying it off. That's the level we should be looking at. He needs to take on more responsibility and start becoming more than just a glorified water carrier. So far, he's done the bare minimum, nothing more.

And you keep on using strawman arguments. Where have I said Coquelin is the perfect DM? If you can't argue based on what I've posted then don't bother. Matic has been rubbish this season, no arguments but he was excellent last season and unlike Schneiderlin he can also go past people in midfield which is a big plus. I didn't see much of Schneiderlin last season so I'm judging him purely on what I've seen for United.

The stats are meant to show that he's way better on the ball than you're giving him credit for. As it stands, they are (unfortunately) the only decent, objective way to illustrate a players contribution short of sitting down and re-watching every game together. And, as I stated (twice!), I'm not claiming that they represent the absolute truth, only that they can be a helpful tool.

Of course I don't know who the passes were played to, but I'm guesstimating (based on what I've seen) they're about as evenly spread among his teammates as those of Coquelin and Matic. And where did I say that there's no difference between Carrick's and Schneiderlin's passing? Or even mention Carrick, for that matter? For someone so peeved by strawmen, you sure don't seem too averse to using them yourself (if you can't argue based on what I've posted, don't bother, as someone once said). I was (obviously) comparing him to the players you are holding up as examples for him to follow. Anyone who saw them play last season would know that there wasn't much between the three of them, and that Matic and Coquelin don't represent something that he should aspire to, because he's already there.

And he does more than win the ball and lay it off, and he's done a hell of a lot more than the bare minimum. It's one thing to feel that he could up his attacking contribution, it's quite another to say that he's only done the bare minimum. One is reasonable, the other is utterly laughable.

Seeing as how you freely admit to not having seen enough of Schneiderlin before he arrived, maybe you should abstain from declaring what he can and can't do?
(Oh, and Schneiderlin actually made it into the France team while playing for Southampton, something Coquelin, playing for Arsenal, has yet to do. If he was that much better than Schneiderlin, the surely he would have gotten a look-in by now, no?)

 

[Nighteyes]

And he does more than win the ball and lay it off, and he's done a hell of a lot more than the bare minimum. It's one thing to feel that he could up his attacking contribution, it's quite another to say that he's only done the bare minimum. One is reasonable, the other is utterly laughable.

Seeing as how you freely admit to not having seen enough of Schneiderlin before he arrived, maybe you should abstain from declaring what he can and can't do?
(Oh, and Schneiderlin actually made it into the France team while playing for Southampton, something Coquelin, playing for Arsenal, has yet to do. If he was that much better than Schneiderlin, the surely he would have gotten a look-in by now, no?)

Disagree completely. Right now Schniderlin doesn't offer much other than his ability win the ball which is my entire problem with him. He's shown to be very limited this season.

As far as I'm concerned twenty games or near enough is a fair enough to time for him to have shown glimpses of what he can do. I've not seen him run with the ball with the effect Matic did frequently last season. Does he have the awareness and vision to start counters for us? Maybe he can do all of this but he's certainly not showing it.

And by your logic, Gareth Barry is a better player than Carrick so I'll just pretend I did not read that. Also, I thought Coquelin was overrated last season but has ironed out several of his flaws this season which has made him a better player.

 

[Red_Beans]

Some of the opinions in here or mind boggling. I blame the fifa/ FM generation

 

[Irrational.]

Schneiderlin at the moment is our best midfielder period. Should be starting every game.

 

[El Jefe]

The jury is still out on him for me. He provides qualities we've been missing for far too long such as having a physical presence, being able to win the ball and being energetic for 90 minutes. However I've been underwhelmed by his passing so far and how he panics with the ball when pressed high up the pitch.

This is just his first season and he's got plenty of time to improve but I'm hoping when Carrick is replaced this summer we bring in a better player than Morgan because I'm not sure if he's of the required level to be a guaranteed starter for us.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Disagree completely. Right now Schniderlin doesn't offer much other than his ability win the ball which is my entire problem with him. He's shown to be very limited this season.

As far as I'm concerned twenty games or near enough is a fair enough to time for him to have shown glimpses of what he can do. I've not seen him run with the ball with the effect Matic did frequently last season. Does he have the awareness and vision to start counters for us? Maybe he can do all of this but he's certainly not showing it.

And by your logic, Gareth Barry is a better player than Carrick so I'll just pretend I did not read that. Also, I thought Coquelin was overrated last season but has ironed out several of his flaws this season which has made him a better player.

So? Even if that is all he offers (which it isn't).

We win games when he plays and lost them when he doesn't.

God forbid we win football matches.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

So? Even if that is all he offers (which it isn't).

We win games when he plays and lost them when he doesn't.

God forbid we win football matches.

He's fecking shit. Is he Pirlo? No. Is he Scholes? No. Then he's not United quality.

 

[Irrational.]

I'd love to hear what the Schneiderlin-bashers thought of players like Claude Makelele and Sergio Busquets. fecking limited players. Shit passing range. All they do is intercept and pass the ball on.

I forgot you needed to be a Yaya Toure on steroids with the passing ability of Scholes to be a United midfielder. This is the same club that had a central midfield of Park and Rafael once. I'm just glad we have a proper midfielder, who seems to have a set job that many can't appreciate. And he goes about it with minimum fuss.

 

[Nighteyes]

He's fecking shit. Is he Pirlo? No. Is he Scholes? No. Then he's not United quality.

 

[Halftrack]

And by your logic, Gareth Barry is a better player than Carrick so I'll just pretend I did not read that.

Pathetic. You cry foul if someone uses a straw man against you, but you have no qualms about using them against others.

 

[Nighteyes]

Pathetic. You cry foul if someone uses a straw man against you, but you have no qualms about using them against others.

No. That is exactly the logic you used. Gareth Barry was a regular for the NT despite playing for an inferior club. Don't blame me for calling you out on your shit logic!

 

[NotoriousISSY]

He does his job well, it's just you're more likely to think he's not actually doing much in a team where the attacking play is diabolical. And that's not down to Schneiderlin, because by trade he is a defensive midfielder.

 

[HabeasC]

He's fecking shit. Is he Pirlo? No. Is he Scholes? No. Then he's not United quality.

 

[izec]

fecking hell, some have lost the plot.

 

[Freak]

He does his job very well. I like it whenever he's in the team.

 

[El Jefe]

I'd love to hear what the Schneiderlin-bashers thought of players like Claude Makelele and Sergio Busquets. fecking limited players. Shit passing range. All they do is intercept and pass the ball on.

I forgot you needed to be a Yaya Toure on steroids with the passing ability of Scholes to be a United midfielder. This is the same club that had a central midfield of Park and Rafael once. I'm just glad we have a proper midfielder, who seems to have a set job that many can't appreciate. And he goes about it with minimum fuss.

Busquets and Makelele are/were very good at making short passes through the lines and also don't shit themselves and pass backwards when pressed high up the pitch.

I don't think anyone is expecting him to be a deep lying playmaker or anthing of the like, we'd just prefer he showed a bit more initiative on the ball.

 

[JPRouve]

Basically the argument against him is that he is used as a defensive midfielders but doesn't play like a box to box?

 

[ZDwyr]

Busquets and Makelele are/were very good at making short passes through the lines and also don't shit themselves and pass backwards when pressed high up the pitch.

I don't think anyone is expecting him to be a deep lying playmaker or anthing of the like, we'd just prefer he showed a bit more initiative on the ball.

Exactly. That's my view anyway. We should be looking for improvement in all of our players. Just constant improvement in possession would be good because his defensive game is great.

 

[Feed Me]

I find the criticism of Morgan very strange indeed.

Solid as feck, adds power to our midfield and gives us the platform we need to defend well.

It's the players ahead of him that need to up their game.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

did someone really compared him to Busquets

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Putting stats aside, we've been a shambles recently against Wolfsburg, Bournemouth and Stoke. You don't need stats to see that the aforementioned teams walked through us on a consistent basis. Is it a surprise that our most mobile and effective DM didn't feature in those games? I think not.

I've said it all along, our defenders or defending is nothing without Schneiderlin. Even Smalling turned slightly average in those games. Our best players this season ----> Martial, De Gea, Smalling and Schneiderlin. One carries the attack, the rest carry the defense.

 

[Halftrack]

No. That is exactly the logic you used. Gareth Barry was a regular for the NT despite playing for an inferior club. Don't blame for calling you out on your shit logic!

Nope, I was simply pointing out that if Coquelin is obviously that much better than Schneiderlin, then surely he should have gotten a look-in by now. I never said anything about ones ability relative to the other, that was you (wrongly) inferring shit.

Besides, that wasn't the only timed you've strawmanned here, so my point still stands.

 

[Nighteyes]

Busquets and Makelele are/were very good at making short passes through the lines and also don't shit themselves and pass backwards when pressed high up the pitch.

I don't think anyone is expecting him to be a deep lying playmaker or anthing of the like, we'd just prefer he showed a bit more initiative on the ball.

Apparently this very difficult to grasp for some here. Asking him to improve his passing is calling for him to be the next Scholes.

 

[Nighteyes]

Nope, I was simply pointing out that if Coquelin is obviously that much better than Schneiderlin, then surely he should have gotten a look-in by now. I never said anything about ones ability relative to the other, that was you (wrongly) inferring shit.

Besides, that wasn't the only timed you've strawmanned here, so my point still stands.

So you just posted that for the sake of posting? You weren't making a point at all! You definitely did not question Coquelin's ability on whether he made the NT or not (You did btw)! Stop backtracking

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Apparently this very difficult to grasp for some here. Asking him to improve his passing is calling for him to be the next Scholes.

He's 26, now. In his peak years. I doubt he'd improve his passing much from now. With Herrera and another box to box midfielder infront of him, we'll have a really good midfield three.

 

[Halftrack]

So you just posted that for the sake of posting? You weren't making a point at all! You definitely did not question Coquelin's ability on whether he made the NT or not (You did btw)! Stop backtracking

Do you have no reading comprehension whatsoever? Here, let my quote myself for you:

I was simply pointing out that if Coquelin is obviously that much better than Schneiderlin, then surely he should have gotten a look-in by now.

I guess I could add, "seeing as he's been playing for a more high profile team." That was literally my point, you massive moron.
And before that, I posted:

Anyone who saw them play last season would know that there wasn't much between the three of them

Making it pretty fecking clear that I rate Schneiderlin and Coquelin about equally. If you actually had any reading comprehension, or the ability to retain information, you wouldn't have made a complete ass of yourself.

I can't help it if you keep seeing shit that isn't there, but you should probably get that checked out.

 

[HabeasC]

I find the criticism of Morgan very strange indeed.

Solid as feck, adds power to our midfield and gives us the platform we need to defend well.

It's the players ahead of him that need to up their game.

Agreed. For years we have been saying that our midfield is too soft and that we need some steel in it. We finally get some and have a player who is much better than most DMs on the ball and people are saying they want to go back to having a softer midfield.

Having Schneiderlin is fine, but Herrera and, most importantly, Schweiny, need to do more in terms of their creative passing. They need to do more than just control games, which should be the minimum for a trio like them.

 

[Lentwood]

Surely you only need to watch the difference in our performances with Morgan compared to without to see that he is playing a valuable role?

 

[Woodenlung]

Saying Schneiderlin isn't a player of United quality is a great laugh. We haven't had a player of his type in years and he's been the best in the league at it for the last three seasons. He's brilliant.

 

[Nighteyes]

Do you have no reading comprehension whatsoever?

Here's what you posted. The insinuation is quite clear. But whatever..Can't be bothered with this anymore. Hope Schneiderlin improves and becomes more influential as the season goes on.

(Oh, and Schneiderlin actually made it into the France team while playing for Southampton, something Coquelin, playing for Arsenal, has yet to do. If he was that much better than Schneiderlin, the surely he would have gotten a look-in by now, no?)

 

[NinjaZombie]

He's fecking shit. Is he Pirlo? No. Is he Scholes? No. Then he's not United quality.

Was this a sarcastic post??

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Was this a sarcastic post??

Of course it was!

 

[Feed Me]

Agreed. For years we have been saying that our midfield is too soft and that we need some steel in it. We finally get some and have a player who is much better than most DMs on the ball and people are saying they want to go back to having a softer midfield.

Having Schneiderlin is fine, but Herrera and, most importantly, Schweiny, need to do more in terms of their creative passing. They need to do more than just control games, which should be the minimum for a trio like them.

Yep.

While they're different players, Morgan is going through the same thing Carrick used to - he's getting stick for the things he can't do instead of being credited for what he does.

There are five players in advance of Morgan, all of whom need to step up to improve our goal scoring.

There's this strange argument doing the rounds that the holding midfielder we select could be having an impact on our attacking play. Weird.

 

[facund]

I really like Schneiderlin in the team. He has his limitations and we haven't seen him reach peak form yet but he gives the midfield an assured platform and stability which the other two players (whomever they may happen to be) should be making more of. He also augments the defence well and we look less vulnerable just through his sheer presence.

Both he and Herrera give away a few too many unnecessary fouls at times but it is hard to criticise such exuberance and tenacity in a team that often lacks vigour.