Seriously.
28
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Yeah but over the summer, the clamour for his signing got me all hyped up that we were getting someone like yaya.
But so far I don't see what the fuss is about. His level seems to be the current United level and we'll need to upgrade on him if we are to compete at the top end of British football.
Or he'll have to do a 'Fletcher' and significantly improve.
I agree - in his role as box to box, he simply goes missing for too long and does not influence the game enough.
Take Carrick from 2007-2011 - he was never more than a 2 passes away from every move.
Morgan needs to properly impose himself into this team - I don't see what he is waiting for.
I would call him more of an defensive box-to-box. He actually had the role of a Deep lying playmaker for Southampton since Wanyama is useless on the ball and he did it quite well, but for us he should just protect our defense while someone like Gundogan roams around and dictates.
So he is just a classic water carrier?
Disagree. Cazorla is the one that makes things happen in Arsenal's midfield. Coquelin has not been that much better either. He's just playing for the better team at this moment in time and his skill set suits the Arsenal team perfectly. Basically he gives them the balance they've been lacking for years. Schneiderlin could do the same for us, if we had better attacking players around him.
Quite obvious you've never properly seen him then and still don't know what type of player he is. He always was more of a Fernandinho than a Y. Toure.
More incisive? What does that mean exactly? Schneiderlin has made significantly more passes than Cocquelin this season, averages more passes per 90 minutes, and has a better pass completion %, more key passes per game, more chances created, more forward passes, has a greater average pass distance. Schneiderlin has also won more tackles, made more interceptions and clearances. (Source: Squawka). What has Coquelin done better than Schneiderlin?
We rarely lose and we concede much fewer when Schneiderlin plays. Southampton had the 2nd best defence in the league last season, and he was an enormous factor in that. Now they have a very poor defence and we have currently the 2nd best defence. When he has played, we have conceded 7 goals in 14 games and lost only once. When he hasn't played, we have conceded 10 goals in only 6 games and lost 4 of those. None of that is a coincidence. He is our best defensive midfielder, and it's not even close.
He's started 12 games in the PL - we've won 7, drawn 4, and lost 1, scoring 15 and conceding 6. 8 clean sheets. ------> 25/36 points.
He's been a substitute in 2 games - we've won 1 and drawn 1, scoring 3 and conceding 1. 1 clean sheet. -----> 4/6 points.
He's not started in the remaining 6 games - we've won 1, drawn 1 and lost 4, scoring 5 and conceding 10. 1 clean sheet. -----> 4/18 points.
He's been a substitute in 2 games - we've won 1 and drawn 1, scoring 3 and conceding 1. 1 clean sheet. -----> 4/6 points.
He's not started in the remaining 6 games - we've won 1, drawn 1 and lost 4, scoring 5 and conceding 10. 1 clean sheet. -----> 4/18 points.
It's a narrative that people have to stick by when they don't really know much about the roles of either player and what they bring to the team, they just assume Coq is better because he improved last year.
Basically, what we need is Basti of 4 years ago to be just ahead of him.
At the minute, BFS is not as slick or as agile enough to really bring out the best in Schneiderlin. If we add someone like Gundogan next to him, he would really thrive. He is not an all out destroyer, but he is not a flamboyant number 8 either. He is a brilliant CDM though.
I had this exact same debate weeks ago. Not doing it again.
As for the whole goal without him that people keep bringing up it's misleading. One, when we don't play him LVG somehow thinks playing just 1 CM is good enough and leaves Carrick all alone in midfield which leads to predictably dire results. This was also due BFS being suspended and Herrera being injured which was bad luck. Two, we went through a defensive crisis and ended up with McNair, CBJ and Carrick himself in defensive when Schneiderlin was injured.
Fantastic at his job which is protecting his defense. We did not buy him to be the next Xavi.
Absolutely. We don't need a bog standard water carrier which is what he's been so far. Based on sheer volume of praise I was expecting a lot more than we've seen.
This is no coincidence. He brings much needed mobility to our midfield. It's great to see him and Hererra back in the side. No idea what LVG's been playing at over the last few months.
He's not a flashy player but fits the balance of the team. He gives our midfield a mobility that it would otherwise lack.
Both injured for a long stretch, Schneiderlin was rested for the Chelsea game too with a lack of games under his belt.
Obviously his performances for United should be used to judge him as a United player (and going by those, claiming his current level isn't good enough is just straight up retarded). What I am getting at, though, is that declaring him "not good enough for United" based on those alone, without considering his earlier performances for other teams is ignorant as feck. You've clearly never actually seen him play before he arrived, so you don't know anything about his capabilities, and it's fair to say that you are in no position to judge whether or not he's got what it takes to make it here.
In other words, you knew nothing about the player before he arrived, and you're judging him based on what kind of player you thought he was going to be rather than the player he is (and always has been). If I had thought Martial was a poacher, would it be fair of me to call him a bit shit based on his performances for us? Or should I own up to the fact that I didn't know the player, and accept that I was wrong?
Schneiderlins' stats last season (and this season) are comparable to the best defensive mids in Europe, but they're all better than him, he's rubbish and will need to be upgraded on if we're to avoid relegation to Conference North.
No we need an upgrade on his partners in midfield - a top level deep lying playmaker and a world class no.10. He clearly needs to improve on the ball but a Carrick he will never be. It might be far fetched but I'd like to see him paired with Perreira just for a spell because I feel BFS has lost the agility to be the man that drives us forward from midfield.
I don't remember the injury crisis against Arsenal when they walked 3 goals in and LvG decided to play no defensive midfielder, whilst Schneiderlin sat the full 90 on the bench. Until that game, Schneiderlin had played every game where we lost only once in 7 games and were top of the league. Then he came back in to the side after the Arsenal pummelling, scored a goal against Everton, and we kept 4 clean sheets in a row.
Must be some kind of coincidence.
That's a really convenient way of avoiding addressing the fact that your argument was completely dismantled. Do you think Coquelin would be an upgrade to Scheniderlin in our current side?
he's good overall, offering not much going forward and being defensively very good, exactly why he was brought in. He will become much better once we sack that dutch master of tactics and start to play high line with someone like Pochettino. We showed that desire to win the ball in opening minutes and Swansea didn't know what to do, we couldn't maintain that, players like rooney and sweinsteigger has miserable stamina..
Schneiderlin is good in the system right now as he's good player but he can be much better in other system.
Schneiderlin is good in the system right now as he's good player but he can be much better in other system.
Interestingly - In the CL, he played 3, we won and drew 2. He didn't feature against PSV and Wolfsburg away, and we lost both.
He, for me, is our most important player (one of). Great signing and, it's no coincidence, we're far better with him on the pitch than off.
He, for me, is our most important player (one of). Great signing and, it's no coincidence, we're far better with him on the pitch than off.
There's a lot more to come from with him. He does loads defensively, and United are overall a lot better with him on the pitch as the results show. On the ball he can and will improve though. He showed he has it in him in some games this season, it's just been inconsistent. He's IMO the best defensive midfielder in the league though when on form, and it's mind boggling that Van Gaal has dropped him randomly now and then.
And who's said that? When you have to resort to shit strawman's you know you have no argument.
I'm not expecting a master passer but Schneiderlin is far too limited for my liking.
So that one game proves everything eh? It's fairly obvious that our defensive record would be a lot better without Schneiderlin in the team if we didn't coincidentally suffer the injuries at the back or if Van Gaal stopped playing a one man CM. Those numbers are utterly pointless without context and completely ignores that we suffered loads of problems with injuries and suspensions when Schneiderlin wasn't in the team. But carry on ignoring these issues and blindly using those stats.
No, you're free to look through my posts. I have no desire to go through it again.
As to your question, most definitely yes.
This is van Gaal we're talking about. Nothing he does makes much sense.
He makes so many vital interceptions and tackles, and I love how high he presses up the field forcing them backwards. Yes he can make some niggly fouls but that's just his style, you know you're in for a match when he is playing.
Yes his passing could be more consistent and he could offer more of a goal threat, but he is fantastic at his job. If he was played at the base of a 3 man midfield with the job of winning the ball and feeding it forwards he would be 1 of the best in the world at that job IMO.
Yes his passing could be more consistent and he could offer more of a goal threat, but he is fantastic at his job. If he was played at the base of a 3 man midfield with the job of winning the ball and feeding it forwards he would be 1 of the best in the world at that job IMO.
The last bit about relegation was hyperbole, but everything else have been said about him in this very thread. And it's precious of you to accuse others of having no argument, given that you say the same thing every time (not good enough on the ball), without being able to substantiate it, and then hand-waving away any evidence to the contrary.
Did the Idiot bench him today??
I didn't just use one game. I used all of his games in my previous post, but there was obviously a reason why those stats are skewed. But now I'm just using "that one game". Make your mind up...
How come it's described as a "one man CM" when Carrick was abandoned in midfield by Schweinsteiger or Fellaini, but it's not described as the same when Schneiderlin was abandoned by Schweinsteiger earlier in the season? Probably because it was less visible, because Carrick has little-to-no defensive resilience these days, and Schneiderlin is very robust in that respect and doesn't get walked through. Yet somehow, that is a mark against him, for doing his job well it seems.
He is our best option as the number 6. It's not even up for debate. Statistically, only Fernandinho has better numbers than him as a DM this season in the PL, who is having a very good season himself.
Abit worrying don't you think as Ive watched him in every game he has played for us?!
This is the bit that perplexes me. No too long ago, I pointed out the fact that he's been frequently let down by his midfield partner, but still manages to keep us from unraveling and conceding the middle, but that's somehow being turned against him. It apparently shows that he's to reliant on his midfield partner to make things happen, instead of, you know, proving that he's a quality DM that manages to keep us from unraveling completely despite having a midfield partner who might as well have been sitting in a wheelchair.
He had a few games where he showed some penetrative passing. Need to see more of that.
My biggest issue with him is his awareness when we're in possession. He doesn't show for the ball enough.
My biggest issue with him is his awareness when we're in possession. He doesn't show for the ball enough.
should be one of the first names on the team sheet.
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Absolutely.
I think some people are expecting far too much of a defensive midfielder in general. I think we could even bring in Busquets, probably the best around in that role, and plenty would still be expecting him to be launching 40 yard piledrivers into the top corner, right after nutmegging every outfield player on the pitch.
A good defensive midfielder doesn't and shouldn't really stand out, and it's unrealistic to expect Schneiderlin to take centre stage. Those who are saying they expect more from him, what 'more' are you expecting? Winning the ball back, protecting the back four, playing good accurate passes to the more creative players whilst rarely losing possession is his job, and he does that. He does it better than Carrick, Schweinsteiger and Fellaini. He did it last season just as well as he is doing it this season. I'm not sure what else he should be doing, but I predict if he took on a much more expensive role on the pitch, it would detract from the disciplined defensive job he is currently doing, and doing well.
Way to shit all over @Akash view guys! True stats aren't everything but there comes a point when they become beyond contestation.He has to improve on the ball, no doubt. His contribution to the team is huge though. Must play every game IMO.
We just look very competitive with him in the side. Really hope there's a future for him and herrera as partners one day. Think the ability to win the ball high up the pitch could be important for us
A lot of the time he's clearly been told to hold back and not join the attack. When we were pushing (failing) for a goal vs Chelsea, he was with the centre backs.
The only way I can see him playing in the same midfield as Herrera is, as part of a midfield 3.
very good player with a specific role in the team that he does very well.
Feel he will continue to improve with time too, as well as allowing those around him to play better too.
Great signing
Feel he will continue to improve with time too, as well as allowing those around him to play better too.
Great signing
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