Exactly why Caicedo is a better buy for us than Mount is as Caicedo has the legs to cover Casemiro and get all over the pitch whilst Casemiro goes forward which he’s shown he can do very well, if we’re to play 4-3-3 I’d much rather Casemiro and Caicedo with Fernandes rather than Mount.
Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Exactly why Caicedo is a better buy for us than Mount is as Caicedo has the legs to cover Casemiro and get all over the pitch whilst Casemiro goes forward which he’s shown he can do very well, if we’re to play 4-3-3 I’d much rather Casemiro and Caicedo with Fernandes rather than Mount.
100% even someone like Rabiot. The profile of what we need is not an 8 in my opinion. It is a CF, CM and GK.
If it was between this lad and Mount on who to splash the money on - I’d much prefer to spend it on Caicedo. Gutted we never signed him at the time when Antonio Valencia recommended him to us when he was playing in Ecuador.
------------------------ Onana -----------------------
--- Varane ------- Martinez -------- Shaw ---
---------- Caicedo ----------- Casemiro ----------
------- Bruno ------------------------ Mount --------
Antony --------------- CF ------------ Rashford
Very good idea. Compared to the last season, it will be a night and day difference in playing through our middle once we lose possession. Such a strong base of four players who are all excellent at their work without the ball. Add someone like Hojlund up front and we will be much more comfortable in the high press than we were last season.
Would also ruin him in half the time and make him an even bigger single point failure in the team. He's in his 30's and is winding down a bit; he's not optimal for that amount of work, especially with no rest or rotation.
Fully agreed. We do not need an advanced midfielder. We need another central/defensive midfielder to play right beside Casemiro. This is why I do not understand this insistence on Mount. We have zero control against even half decent midfields let alone the top of the line midfields. Playing a so called advanced mid has done nothing to help us in the goal scoring or attacking department and has deprived us of presence in midfield.
I don't think you'll be going to this much trouble to have him as competition to someone who's never injured and totally untouchable in the line-up.
So with that in mind in your 4231 the right hand side is all that makes sense (he's actually low-key quite good in that role). Let's just say i would be delighted if he plays in the double 6 for United, he's an excellent pressing forward but that shouldn't be mistaken for positionally good further back, whenever he's played there for us it felt like we had a one man midfield.
Totally agree.
Eriksen could work because he is first and foremost a playmaker with attacking tendency. Thus playing him deeper can still use his biggest attribute. Mount, while he may be in the future, is not that type of player currently.
Him and Case as a pair of 8s with Bruno ahead of them would be an outrageous midfield. We’ve seen more of casemiros ability going forward and passing range since he came to united so it’s not like we’d strictly have two 6s.
Im all for this signing if it goes through and would be gutted if he ended up elsewhere in the prem
Im all for this signing if it goes through and would be gutted if he ended up elsewhere in the prem
I honestly don't get why we are not aggressively chasing him, unless he has a dream to join Chelsea?
Really hope ETH prove us wrong in this case and Mount fit us better...
Really hope ETH prove us wrong in this case and Mount fit us better...
I think Mount is an opportunistic one who will actually allow Bruno to rest, will be interesting how differently we play because one is pure chaos and the other seems much more able to follow set instructions
I still think if we can't get Caceido, JWP would be a cheap and solid option who plays CM and immediately adds set piece abilities. Our quality in the CMs is really low, Eriksen can't last a game, McT isn't good, VdB is leaving/hasn't been good, Fred looks like he's off..there's literally no one else.
Yeah I don't see where he fits because for all Antony's criticisms, he's locked down that RW and I think he had a respectable debut season, we also have Voldemort waiting on the club's inquest who might pop back into reckoning and can play RW/CF. My sensible suggestion is Antony has been a bit injury prone and Bruno runs himself into the ground, Mount will therefore spend time across 10 and RW whilst Garnacho and Rashford compete for LW.
I like your creativity but ETH appears to be a 4231 man. On the other hand, if you have Mount and Caicedo in the squad you really can't bench one of two of them and what you're suggesting may work. Casemiro is surprisingly effective going forward so I would see the XI players you're fielding pushing Casemiro further up in something more like this:
GK
Back Four
Caicedo
Casemiro Mount
Bruno
Rashford + CF
Basically, a diamond in midfield. But of course that means benching both Antony and Sancho -- two massive transfer fee and wage players -- to come in the 70th minute match after match. And it would by necessity mean our fullbacks significantly raise their game going forward, which I really don't see happening with either AWB or DD. Shaw can be effective launching up the pitch, but his engine is ever so slightly starting to slow down even though he was magnificent this season.
I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to bring in a CF this summer and that ETH will be forced to try to make it work with Rashford and Martial as his two CFs. If that comes to pass, we're instantly out of the running for a proper PL title run but we still might be able to scrape top four again. If we do shoehorn Rashy in as our CF then either Antony or Sancho, or Garnacho if his development continues to exceed expectations, on the front line. But I'd still worry a bit that we'd be asking our fullbacks to do more than they are capable of doing...all to make it work to start both Mount and Caicedo.
Caicedo probably requires a transfer fee of at least 70m and since we're already spending 60m on Mount, and probably 50m for keeper I just don't see how we'll have the budget to bring in Caicedo as well, even if we do sell two of Maguire, Fred and McTominay.
If he ends up at Chelsea, and we end up with Mount, I give up on next season already.
That's the spirit!
Ideally we would have two world class or near world class players at every position, but for a variety of reasons -- boiling down to the horrific management at United since the mid 2000s -- that's just not going to happen. City are in the fortunate position of being able to stock every position deeply, primarily because of their owner is willing to spend whatever it takes and their management has no problem with twisting and breaking accounting rules with off-book expenditures to be able to stock players they really don't even need but are an insurance policy in the event their marquee players go off the rails.
So yes, if available funds were unlimited and if we had an appetite to run the enterprise the way City have run it of course we'd stock top players 2 or 3 deep.
Bit extreme. I won’t be too happy either if we fund their move for Caicedo but remember they finished 12th last season and us 3rd, him alone isn’t going to transform them into a side that’s challenging.
It is very likely to happen. I would be extremely surprise if it doesn't.
It's not that he single-handedly makes them better than us, it just shows that we again don't know what to do with this squad.
Caicedo would be a great partner for Casemiro, two defensively adapt players who can also open play fairly well, and Caicedo is even passable at carrying the ball past the press. He also could provide a backup that if Cas is getting another red card we aren't left completely naked in midfield.
Mount offers none of that, he is an attacking mid that runs a lot. He can't even replace Eriksen because he simply lacks his passing range. Unless EtH plans to replace Bruno or to permanently switch to w 433 this deal makes zero sense, especially not for the quoted price.
Chelsea last season was a freak. With the quality players they have and poch in charge I expect a different beast next season. Expect them to reduce their squad by 6-10 players (think they’ve already gotten rid of 3)
Freak season or not I don’t think they’ll improve enough in Poch’s first season to be a serious threat. Plus I rate Ten Hag a lot higher than Poch who the juries very much still out on. Not to mention they’ve still got that clown Boehly calling the shots at the end of the day.
Literally everything you said about Mount is wrong. You're just making random assumptions based on absolutely nothing.
Describing him as someone that just runs a lot and doesn't have passing range? Ffs
Literally everything you said about Mount is wrong. You're just making random assumptions based on absolutely nothing.
Describing him as someone that just runs a lot and doesn't have passing range? Ffs
Not really, I said he doesn't have the passing range of Eriksen and his stand-out ability really is his work rate, he is pretty good at pressing. Looking at the statistics, they pretty much support what my eye tells me, not an outstanding passer, passable ball carrier with a lot of pressures in the middle and final third.
Literally everything you said about Mount is wrong. You're just making random assumptions based on absolutely nothing.
Describing him as someone that just runs a lot and doesn't have passing range? Ffs
Some you have never watched this lad play on a consistent basis and it shows.
I agree. With Caicedo in midfield it would act as great cover for Amad as a 10/RW as well, I see him as a more gifted passer than Mount and maybe even Eriksen. I don't think there would be an urgent need for Mount if we sign Caicedo, him covering as an 8 and Amad as a 10/RW, with Mainoo, Eriksen and Mejbri filling in too.
I'm not sure if you agree with me or quoted the wrong person.
Alright maybe I'm a bit harsh on him but the original point that I was trying to make is that he is the wrong player for the kind of role we need, or would you say he would be an effective partner for Cas?
Just for the record I have seen him play about 10 times last season, not an outrageous amount, but I have also seen him quite a lot when Tuchel was still manager and Mount was arguably at his best and even then I thought his stand-out ability as his work rate and movement off the ball and not on the ball. Even looking now at his stats on fbref shows that my memory isn't completely wrong, his passing stats neither suggests he has the ability of to be a deep lying playmaker like Eriksen nor the ball carrying ability of de Jong, even though this is probably one of his better abilities on the ball.
But again this all is mainly about him being the wrong type of player who is usually playing much higher up the pitch than the type of player we would need. Unless EtH sees something that makes him confident he can turn Mount into a passable de Jong alternative, I don't see how this deal makes sense for us at all.
In 20/21 season, Mount was second in chances created, ahead of De Bruyne and Grealish and only beaten by Bruno. 6 goals and 5 assists in 2890 PL minutes. He was Chelsea's POTY and also assisted the only goal in the CL final against City.
In 21/22 season, Mount scored 11 goals and 10 assists in 2363 PL minutes. For comparison, that season Bruno scored 10 goals and had 6 assists in 3111 PL minutes. He was Chelsea's POTY.
I suggest you look up his stats in these seasons as well, and not just this season where Chelsea completely collapsed and had 3 different managers. He also struggled with injuries, and hasn't played as much as the seasons before.
Yes, he has phenomenal work rate and pressing, but he's also very creative, great crosser of the ball and very good set-piece taker. 20/21 season he was 97th percentile for expected assists and 90th for key passes.
The underrating of Mount on this forum is actually weird. It's not surprising, though, considering there are a lot of English posters who've watched more England performances than Chelsea, and as with most of the English players, he hasn't delivered the goods playing for them.
I am actually agreeing with you. There is a huge drop off in passing range between Mount and Eriksen. Mount is an intelligent player that uses his movement to create goals. He can pass but not Eriksens level. My brother is a Chelsea fans so I watch a lot of their matches and I think you have a pretty description of how he plays. I don't know why the other poster took running as an insult to mount. Players who run a lot but with purpose and intelligence are an asset too. Just like you I am not sure he is what we need, its all that EtH has some kind of master plan. I am worried.
I am actually disagreeing with you.
You're disagreeing with what?
Mount is not as good passer as Eriksen, but he offers a lot more. Besides, I think you're overrating Eriksen's passing a bit anyway. He's not the same player he was in Spurs. Have a look at his passing completion rate for short, medium and long and take a look at the percentiles he's in. Not exactly a dictator, but he's still the best we got.
You seemed to insinuate that the other poster was wrong do saying mount runs a lot, with a not so great passing range. He is actually right. Mount does run a lot but the key factor is that he does it with intelligence, putting himself in place to either score goals or create them. His running is one of his big assets. A player running a lot a lot is not an insult as long as he does it with purpose/intelligence.
When watching him play one of my least favourite things about him is a lot of times he will get the ball deep in midfield and decide to run with it/hold on to it too long even when there is an easy forward pass that can launch an attack. So he is either a ball hogger or he doesn't trust his passing range in certain distances.
Should get the last two but no chance will we get Caicedo ahead of Chelsea. Mount deal gets done but still leaves hole next to Casa
This makes me happy. Funding Chelsea for Caicedo would make losing him much worse
I am not going through why that didn't happen again because repeated numerous times
Yeah Caicedo should be Erik's top target but alas it looks like it's Mount so have to trust him
The worst thing about this transfer window is the Arsenal fans low key mocking us
We will be funding Chelsea for Caicedo
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