Mo Salah

And penalty takers are chosen because they have the highest chance of scoring them. They're not unmissable.

I think you are being pedantic here. Clubs might have 5-6 excellent penalty takers. One might be hitting them purely on the basis of seniority at the club, or the fact they were there first.

Not all players get to hit them. If they did, it would be a fair metric, but it’s not.

An attacker scoring 20 open play goals has had a better season than an attacker scoring 11 plus 9 penalties. The former has the club captain taking them off him, for example.
 
It’s weird to me how controversial of a Ballon d’Or shout Salah seems to be with some (the man with 44 G/A in a PL season with 10 games to go!) when Rodri won the bloody thing last year!

Messi and Ronaldo, (and even Neymar I guess) have gone. There’s not going to be one absolute juggernaut of a player who is head and shoulders better than everybody else now. It’s just which of the handful of world class players in football currently is slightly playing better than everyone else.
I'm not sure who comes close tbh
 
I think you are being pedantic here. Clubs might have 5-6 excellent penalty takers. One might be hitting them purely on the basis of seniority at the club, or the fact they were there first.

Not all players get to hit them. If they did, it would be a fair metric, but it’s not.

An attacker scoring 20 open play goals has had a better season than an attacker scoring 11 plus 9 penalties. The former has the club captain taking them off him, for example.
I'm not. I just disagree.

Those 20 open play goals could all be easy tap ins.
 
It’s weird to me how controversial of a Ballon d’Or shout Salah seems to be with some (the man with 44 G/A in a PL season with 10 games to go!) when Rodri won the bloody thing last year!

Messi and Ronaldo, (and even Neymar I guess) have gone. There’s not going to be one absolute juggernaut of a player who is head and shoulders better than everybody else now. It’s just which of the handful of world class players in football currently is slightly playing better than everyone else.

I agree with this. He is far and away the best candidate for it.

What would really help him is that big game in the CL semis or final. I really think if he had that one defining game, it would be inevitable.

Should that matter? That’s to be debated, but I think that one big performance in a crucial CL game would make it a formality.
 
I'm not sure who comes close tbh
I agree with this. He is far and away the best candidate for it.

What would really help him is that big game in the CL semis or final. I really think if he had that one defining game, it would be inevitable.

Should that matter? That’s to be debated, but I think that one big performance in a crucial CL game would make it a formality.
I think if Liverpool come crashing out against Paris really early and one of the other outside shout guys like Raphinha, Mbappe, Kane etc. have a good rest of the CL, maybe they can pip it. Maybe.

Otherwise Salah is pretty much a shoe-in.
 
I'm not. I just disagree.

Those 20 open play goals could all be easy tap ins.

Again, you have to be there for those. It’s all about positioning and timing. Most professional players will score most of their penalties and only a select few get to take them (not always the best takers)

It’s an excellent season, it really is, but 9 penalties is a lot, and it takes the gloss off that goal scoring number, for me.
 
Again, you have to be there for those. It’s all about positioning and timing. Most professional players will score most of their penalties and only a select few get to take them (not always the best takers)

It’s an excellent season, it really is, but 9 penalties is a lot, and it takes the gloss off that goal scoring number, for me.
Not all the time...hence why I said easy tap ins. Sometimes that comes down to luck rather than good positioning and timing. Same with the assist metric, it can be the easiest pass in the world and it's an assist.

We will have to agree to disagree.
 
The standard of the PL is shocking. He would never get these numbers back in that day.
Absolute nonsense. Teams are setup so much better than 20 years ago. The defending and midfield play are miles above back then. The tackles might have been harder but the basic style of play doesn’t come close to today’s style of playing. There’s no way Gigg scores that goal in today’s PL. Those players used to make 50-60 yard runs whilst all defending players either backed off or looked like traffic cones. Salah would make mince meat of any team back then.
 
Absolute nonsense. Teams are setup so much better than 20 years ago. The defending and midfield play are miles above back then. The tackles might have been harder but the basic style of play doesn’t come close to today’s style of playing. There’s no way Gigg scores that goal in today’s PL. Those players used to make 50-60 yard runs whilst all defending players either backed off or looked like traffic cones. Salah would make mince meat of any team back then.
This season has been brutal with so many teams being really fecking competitive and relentless. The "easy" games are so damn diminished now.
 
Absolute nonsense. Teams are setup so much better than 20 years ago. The defending and midfield play are miles above back then. The tackles might have been harder but the basic style of play doesn’t come close to today’s style of playing. There’s no way Gigg scores that goal in today’s PL. Those players used to make 50-60 yard runs whilst all defending players either backed off or looked like traffic cones. Salah would make mince meat of any team back then.
What a lot of bollocks.
 
Not to be that guy.... but he seems to be talking about 20 years ago as if it's the 90's and not 04-05, when Henry (not sure why Giggs is the comparison here) was heavily doing what Salah is doing while teams were changing their setups due to the league now having Mourinho and Rafa and their more continental setups on top of Wenger, while Fergie was adapting.

The league is also averaging nearly 20% more goals per game.
 
I think he is right.
The style of play and quality in the game now is shite. Doesn’t mean Salah isn’t a good player but I don’t know why we’re disparaging Giggs to big him up. Who is the best left back in the Premier League right now? Are they a patch on the likes of Cole, Evra or going back further, Irwin?
 
The style of play and quality in the game now is shite. Doesn’t mean Salah isn’t a good player but I don’t know why we’re disparaging Giggs to big him up. Who is the best left back in the Premier League right now? Are they a patch on the likes of Cole, Evra or going back further, Irwin?
Neither were shite. They're just very different periods that have focused on different things and skill sets.

The older I get the more I start to think that GOAT conversations and best teams of all time should be confined to 5-10 periods rather than, for example, the c.30 years of the PL, because of how different the eras are in terms of the teams they were up against but also the styles of football played in each decade.
 
The style of play and quality in the game now is shite. Doesn’t mean Salah isn’t a good player but I don’t know why we’re disparaging Giggs to big him up. Who is the best left back in the Premier League right now? Are they a patch on the likes of Cole, Evra or going back further, Irwin?
Well you are focusing on individuals and not teams, and even with those evra was suspect defensively.
 
Well you are focusing on individuals and not teams, and even with those evra was suspect defensively.
There are more goals per game now than there were in those days. That doesn’t point to greater defensive organisation such as is being implied. Unless you think the likes of Chris Wood and Mbeumo are just that good.
 
There are more goals per game now than there were in those days. That doesn’t point to greater defensive organisation such as is being implied. Unless you think the likes of Chris Wood and Mbeumo are just that good.
You are very old fashioned with the way you look at things, so focused on individuals. Teams are far more efficient at attacking now, and more importantly fit

There is some big statistic where now there are far more goals scored at the end of games due to defenders being knacked trying to keep up the intensity every game.
 
The style of play and quality in the game now is shite. Doesn’t mean Salah isn’t a good player but I don’t know why we’re disparaging Giggs to big him up. Who is the best left back in the Premier League right now? Are they a patch on the likes of Cole, Evra or going back further, Irwin?
The reason Giggs was brought up is because to me that could be the best run I have ever seen in the league. Not an over the top long ball but a legit run leaving the opposition in shambles. I just don’t think that’s possible in todays football and I also think Salah would make those runs against those teams in that era.
 
You are very old fashioned with the way you look at things, so focused on individuals. Teams are far more efficient at attacking now, and more importantly fit

There is some big statistic where now there are far more goals scored at the end of games due to defenders being knacked trying to keep up the intensity every game.
So that would suggest stamina being more important than ability. You have some recency bias.
 
The reason Giggs was brought up is because to me that could be the best run I have ever seen in the league. Not an over the top long ball but a legit run leaving the opposition in shambles. I just don’t think that’s possible in todays football and I also think Salah would make those runs against those teams in that era.
Salah would’ve been asked to play as a natural winger in those days against full backs with free reignto kick him up and down the pitch. Maybe he would dribble more, but he’d score less.
 
So that would suggest stamina being more important than ability. You have some recency bias.
I would say stamina has been proven to be far more important than previously realised.

Players need to be more well rounded now, skill isn't enough to make up for deficiency elsewhere.
 
Neither were shite. They're just very different periods that have focused on different things and skill sets.

The older I get the more I start to think that GOAT conversations and best teams of all time should be confined to 5-10 periods rather than, for example, the c.30 years of the PL, because of how different the eras are in terms of the teams they were up against but also the styles of football played in each decade.
The only issue with this is that even conversations within those 5-10 year spans are wildly contentious, and none of us will budge on our opinions on teams or players. I'm exactly the same.

Like if you have a debate between 2 players that played at the exact same time in the exact same league, and one has better stats and/or more trophies than the other, fans of fhe other guy will come up with reasons why their guy is still better (and these reasons may or may not be legit).

Maybe we should just accept that all these conversations are designed to be a massive distraction that we expend all our energies and emotions on whilst our secret alien overlords feast on our unsuspecting brains :lol:
 
I listen to podcasts - Weekly, Totally, Ramble etc. None of them Liverpool related.

I mean, we have some very strong teams this season that weren’t around before now. Bournemouth, Brighton, Villa, Newcastle, Forest and Fulham. All capable of beating big teams. To say this is a weak league just seems a bit sour. It’s obviously a strong league.
Partly true but I think it is also partly the sides around the top have weakened. Arsenal, City, Spurs, United, Villa are all much worse this season. This cannot be denied.
I also have a lot of Liverpool fan mates who have whinged through the season about Liverpool at various points, whether that be having no specialist dm, being defensively suspect at times and a lack of form from Nunez and Diaz.

Without question this Liverpool team is not as good on the eye as the Klopp teams.

But you are correct. I think the rise of Forest, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Fulham and Brighton is worth pointing out and a lot of that is down to the moving away from the ‘possession obsessed/high press style’. This direct, counter, pile men forward style is a proper throwback and I have enjoyed it. Especially as city are the team who have struggled the most to hack it.
 
Partly true but I think it is also partly the sides around the top have weakened. Arsenal, City, Spurs, United, Villa are all much worse this season. This cannot be denied.
I also have a lot of Liverpool fan mates who have whinged through the season about Liverpool at various points, whether that be having no specialist dm, being defensively suspect at times and a lack of form from Nunez and Diaz.

Without question this Liverpool team is not as good on the eye as the Klopp teams.

But you are correct. I think the rise of Forest, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Fulham and Brighton is worth pointing out and a lot of that is down to the moving away from the ‘possession obsessed/high press style’. This direct, counter, pile men forward style is a proper throwback and I have enjoyed it. Especially as city are the team who have struggled the most to hack it.
There are indeed Liverpool fans who moan, but I find it tiresome. Obviously any side can improve, but Liverpool have effectively had one properly bad result since August so I think finding fault is a very modern vibe - certainly from our own fanbase.
 
There are indeed Liverpool fans who moan, but I find it tiresome. Obviously any side can improve, but Liverpool have effectively had one properly bad result since August so I think finding fault is a very modern vibe - certainly from our own fanbase.
Agree, and I’ve even called them out on it. One loss all season really. The psv and Plymouth games were second string.
Mentality wise this is the strongest Liverpool I’ve seen in my time.

The game management in particular is unreal where perhaps under Klopp it wasn’t always.
 
Agree, and I’ve even called them out on it. One loss all season really. The psv and Plymouth games were second string.
Mentality wise this is the strongest Liverpool I’ve seen in my time.

The game management in particular is unreal where perhaps under Klopp it wasn’t always.
Mindset seems excellent, I agree
 
Eto'o is better than Salah for me, I haven't seen anything from Weah.

Agreed.

Eto’o is still the greatest African player that I have seen (not being old enough to have seen Weah properly), ahead of Salah and IMO comfortably ahead of Drogba (as great as he was as well).

Eto’o’s track record of scoring in big games was impressive; the 2000 AFCON and Olympic finals with Cameroon, the 2003 Copa del Rey final with Mallorca, the 2006 and 2009 Champions League finals with Barcelona, the 2011 Coppa Italia final with Inter etc.

Salah’s already incredible career and standing would have been even higher, had it not been for his series of disappointments in 2022; losing in the AFCON final to Senegal, a month later losing in a World Cup qualification playoff against that same Senegal team and so missing out on the first ever edition in the Arab World (after going into Russia 2018 carrying an injury), missing out on the Premier League title despite Liverpool finishing with 92 points, and losing in the CL final.
 
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The greatest player from the African continent or still George Weah or even Etoo?
Depends. Weah is still the only african winner of the Ballon D'Or, he's the guy who truly put african football and african players on the map worldwide

Salah is a way better player than Weah was and up there with Eto'o for best african player ever - at least in Europe
 
Depends. Weah is still the only african winner of the Ballon D'Or, he's the guy who truly put african football and african players on the map worldwide

Salah is a way better player than Weah was and up there with Eto'o for best african player ever - at least in Europe
Nonsense
 
Agreed.

Eto’o is still the greatest African player that I have seen (not being old enough to have seen Weah properly), ahead of Salah and IMO comfortably ahead of Drogba (as great as he was as well).

Eto’o’s track record of scoring in big games was impressive; the 2000 AFCON and Olympic finals with Cameroon, the 2003 Copa del Rey final with Mallorca, the 2006 and 2009 Champions League finals with Barcelona, the 2011 Coppa Italia final with Inter etc.

Salah’s already incredible career and standing would have been even higher, had it not been for his series of disappointments in 2022; losing in the AFCON final to Senegal, a month later losing in a World Cup qualification playoff against that same Senegal team and so missing out on the first ever edition in the Arab World (after going into Russia 2018 carrying an injury), missing out on the Premier League despite Liverpool ending up with 92 points, and losing in the CL final.
The AFCON factor is something that people who are focused on European club football may overlook in this discussion. Eto'o is a 2 time AFCON champion and the top scorer in the history of the competition. But, in reference to one of my posts above, I'm sure that people who favour Salah would say that Eto'o had better teammates in his national side. You can't win with these things!
 
Eto'o is better than Salah for me, I haven't seen anything from Weah.

I still can't understand the logic of Barca getting rid of him, let alone a swap deal AND 40-50 millions.
I mean, even at the time i thought Eto was better than Zlatan, and they also include that much money in that deal?
 
I still can't understand the logic of Barca getting rid of him, let alone a swap deal AND 40-50 millions.
I mean, even at the time i thought Eto was better than Zlatan, and they also include that much money in that deal?
Pep hates Africans. That's why :lol:
 
Think Drogba deserves a mention in this discussion too, although think Eto'o was better

A mention sure, but he's far behind the others for me. Goals aren't everything but he didn't score enough goals, as a striker to be up there.
I still can't understand the logic of Barca getting rid of him, let alone a swap deal AND 40-50 millions.
I mean, even at the time i thought Eto was better than Zlatan, and they also include that much money in that deal?

Etoo and Pep didn't get along. Etoo as great as he was, was apparently a bit of a diva. Years ago he gave an interview where he listed his top 5 accomplishments, didn't list Barcelona once, but listed joining Real Madrid and winning the 2000 CL with them :lol:
 
Didn’t Guardiola want to get rid of Eto’o pretty much straight away during the summer of 2008, before changing his mind?

Apparently after one of the the pre-season friendlies in the US during which Eto’o scored a couple of goals, Guardiola criticised his performance and movement as a striker afterwards. Eto’o thought he was insane.

I think the previous season when Rijkaard was in charge and Guardiola was running the B team, as Eto’o made his comeback from a knee injury and was on the bench in a La Liga game, Rijkaard publicly said afterwards that he hadn’t wanted to come on as a late sub. Eto’o strongly refuted that.
 
Again, you have to be there for those. It’s all about positioning and timing. Most professional players will score most of their penalties and only a select few get to take them (not always the best takers)

It’s an excellent season, it really is, but 9 penalties is a lot, and it takes the gloss off that goal scoring number, for me.
Exactly this. If you had a Lindelof taking pennos he´d have simillar record to Salah - scoring 9 goals out of 10 with just one miss. Penalties are just much much easier than any type of goal from an open play.
 
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