Mo Salah

Kwabs said:
Why is everyone saying this? First of all, they're completely different types of player, making direct comparison less than straightforward.

Secondly, I don't think there's anything obvious about it at all. Why do people think Salah is so obviously better? As an all round player? Come on.

Fair enough if people think Salah is better, but whether he is or not is extremely debatable IMO.

I'm far from a Liverpool or Gerrard fan, but I think he's being a bit disrespected here.
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You could also ask why anyone would consider Gerrard a better player than Salah? I'd say Gerrard is a worse version of de Bruyne and Salah is on the same level as KdB, IMO.
 
Kwabs said:
Why is everyone saying this? First of all, they're completely different types of player, making direct comparison less than straightforward.

Secondly, I don't think there's anything obvious about it at all. Why do people think Salah is so obviously better? As an all round player? Come on.

Fair enough if people think Salah is better, but whether he is or not is extremely debatable IMO.

I'm far from a Liverpool or Gerrard fan, but I think he's being a bit disrespected here.
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Could you name any (right) winger in PL history who was a better player than Salah?

One could argue that the likes of Vieira, Keane, Scholes, Lampard, De Bruyne, Fabregas, ... as midfielders (even though some are different kind of players) are all at the same level or even better than Gerrard was (not saying I'd agree with it, but a lot more comparable players who could be placed in the same tier as him).
 
Kwabs said:
Why is everyone saying this? First of all, they're completely different types of player, making direct comparison less than straightforward.

Secondly, I don't think there's anything obvious about it at all. Why do people think Salah is so obviously better? As an all round player? Come on.

Fair enough if people think Salah is better, but whether he is or not is extremely debatable IMO.

I'm far from a Liverpool or Gerrard fan, but I think he's being a bit disrespected here.
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He isn't being disrespected. Salah is arguably the best premier league player ever. Gerrard is a great player, but there's a bit of a gap between them as players.
 
Kwabs said:
Gerrard is not Liverpool's greatest ever player though. That is Dalglish. And Salah ain't passing him as a Liverpool legend, let's be real.

Whether Salah can pass Gerrard is a more tricky question. Gerrard has two things in his favour - being Scouse and supposedly carrying a weaker Liverpool team through some tough years in an era of Manchester United dominance.

But the more success Salah has, the more he chips away at this foundation, which is not that solid to begin with (well apart from the Scouse bit, maybe - everyone loves their own).
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Interested to know whether people think this is possible, particularly Liverpool fans... let's say hypothetically Salah stays for another 3 seasons and plays at an elite enough level that the following happens:
  • He beats the all-time PL G+A record this season (almost nailed on)
  • Wins the Ballon D'or (favourite)
  • Becomes the 1st and only 3+ time PFA PoTY (nailed on)
  • Surpasses Dalglish for total Liverpool appearances (very likely if he stays for 3 years)
  • Finishes 2nd all-time for assists for Liverpool (likely if he stays for 3 years, would be behind Dalglish for what it's worth).
  • Finishes 2nd all-time top scorer for Liverpool (very likely if he stays for 3 years)
Where would you put him vs Dalglish, importantly separating the achievements of the latter as manager and focusing solely on their greatest as a player? Does his trophy count with the team factor in heavily here?
 
Kwabs said:
Why is everyone saying this? First of all, they're completely different types of player, making direct comparison less than straightforward.

Secondly, I don't think there's anything obvious about it at all. Why do people think Salah is so obviously better? As an all round player? Come on.

Fair enough if people think Salah is better, but whether he is or not is extremely debatable IMO.

I'm far from a Liverpool or Gerrard fan, but I think he's being a bit disrespected here.
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Fecking hell

Salah is a way better player than Gerrard was. No need to explain why or how, it's fecking self-evident ffs
 
Kwabs said:
Why is everyone saying this? First of all, they're completely different types of player, making direct comparison less than straightforward.

Secondly, I don't think there's anything obvious about it at all. Why do people think Salah is so obviously better? As an all round player? Come on.

Fair enough if people think Salah is better, but whether he is or not is extremely debatable IMO.

I'm far from a Liverpool or Gerrard fan, but I think he's being a bit disrespected here.
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Even carragher admitted as a huge Gerrard fan that Salah had overtaken him.
 
He's the best player in the world without a doubt. I hope they cock up replacing him. That should peg them down a few levels because he's been fantastic individually and for the attack as a unit.
 
DannyCAFC said:
Interested to know whether people think this is possible, particularly Liverpool fans... let's say hypothetically Salah stays for another 3 seasons and plays at an elite enough level that the following happens:
  • He beats the all-time PL G+A record this season (almost nailed on)
  • Wins the Ballon D'or (favourite)
  • Becomes the 1st and only 3+ time PFA PoTY (nailed on)
  • Surpasses Dalglish for total Liverpool appearances (very likely if he stays for 3 years)
  • Finishes 2nd all-time for assists for Liverpool (likely if he stays for 3 years, would be behind Dalglish for what it's worth).
  • Finishes 2nd all-time top scorer for Liverpool (very likely if he stays for 3 years)
Where would you put him vs Dalglish, importantly separating the achievements of the latter as manager and focusing solely on their greatest as a player? Does his trophy count with the team factor in heavily here?
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Dalglish was the catalyst and key player on a side that won 4 european cups

Salah would need to lead Liverpool to some serious hardware to surpass him, aside from the individual accolades

For what is worth, as a player I think he's in the same ballpark
 
giorno said:
Dalglish was the catalyst and key player on a side that won 4 european cups

Salah would need to lead Liverpool to some serious hardware to surpass him, aside from the individual accolades

For what is worth, as a player I think he's in the same ballpark
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Three but I take your point. I guess it comes down to this argument of silverware, IMO if you win multiple league titles and a CL I think that's enough as success beyond that is so heavily based on you having a team good enough to great a mini-dynasty.

If he did stay beyond this year for another 3, he'd be on 2 titles + 1 CL, it's not inconceivable that he wins 1 more of each. I think that's a solid haul, particularly when you consider they would have made 2 other CL finals and finished 2nd in the PL twice on 95+ points.
 
He's passed Gerrard by now. Sitting pretty in second behind Dalglish.
 
RobinLFC said:
Could you name any (right) winger in PL history who was a better player than Salah?

One could argue that the likes of Vieira, Keane, Scholes, Lampard, De Bruyne, Fabregas, ... as midfielders (even though some are different kind of players) are all at the same level or even better than Gerrard was (not saying I'd agree with it, but a lot more comparable players who could be placed in the same tier as him).
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So the quality of the team around you doesn't matter anymore? If Salah is that much better than everyone else, then WTF was he doing fannying around at Basel, in lesser clubs in Italy and at Chelsea all those years?

You can't take away what he's achieved at Liverpool, but there's a lot of recency bias going on here, not least in the notion that other PL wingers (not just right wingers, let's not be restrictive here) are not comparable to him. You've got Ronaldo, Robben, Hazard, Bale etc. All at least comparable or better. Maybe not all specifically as PL players, but certainly as players.
 
giorno said:
Fecking hell

Salah is a way better player than Gerrard was. No need to explain why or how, it's fecking self-evident ffs
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It really isn't, but believe whatever you want.
 
giorno said:
Dalglish was the catalyst and key player on a side that won 4 european cups

Salah would need to lead Liverpool to some serious hardware to surpass him, aside from the individual accolades

For what is worth, as a player I think he's in the same ballpark
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Incorrect, Dalglish won 3 European Cups. And helped Liverpool reach another final (that ended in tragedy).

But he also won 6 league titles and a boatload of other cups. And then took over as manager and won a load more stuff. Salah cannot possibly surpass him as a Liverpool figure, he was the key player in the greatest period of dominance in the history of not just Liverpool, but English football. And was also manager when Hillsborough happened, which strengthened his bond with the fans and community. Salah can only ever be second at best.
 
Kwabs said:
So the quality of the team around you doesn't matter anymore? If Salah is that much better than everyone else, then WTF was he doing fannying around at Basel, in lesser clubs in Italy and at Chelsea all those years?
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Well, it's obvious that a foreign player won't have the same path into a PL team than a homegrown one has. He joined Liverpool when he just turned 25 so it's not like he spent the majority of his career or his prime outside England. And he wasn't exactly "fannying around" at Roma and Fiorentina either, he had 14 and 15 goals in the league during his two seasons in Rome and was their player of the season in 16/17.
Kwabs said:
You can't take away what he's achieved at Liverpool, but there's a lot of recency bias going on here, not least in the notion that other PL wingers (not just right wingers, let's not be restrictive here) are not comparable to him. You've got Ronaldo, Robben, Hazard, Bale etc. All at least comparable or better. Maybe not all specifically as PL players, but certainly as players.
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Robben on a PL level is a joke compared to Salah, but even if you look at their entire careers (and I know I'm purely looking at output here), Robben's best seasons at Bayern were worse than Salah's worst season for Liverpool. Same for Bale, his best season (at Tottenham) is comparable to Salah's worst season. He played more than 30 league games once after he turned 24 years old. You won't find many bigger Hazard fans than me for what he did and how he played at Chelsea but he took every other season off, and once again stats wise it's not even remotely comparable. Flopped completely at Madrid.

Fair enough if people hold other opinions on that and if you disagree, but Salah's consistency year over year as a winger is remarkable - only Henry comes close if you look at the numbers.
 
What was the percentage of Liverpool attacks that go directly through him again? Something crazy high like 70-80% remember reading a while back. Not a chance they'll be as effective after he's gone unless they pull off a masterstroke in the market.
 
Woodzy said:
I’d say since Salah is dragging them to a PL title, something that Gerrard never managed, then it absolutely is.
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Yes because the degree of difficulty with Gerrard's teams and Salah's team, and Gerrard's competition and Salah's competition (this season) is exactly the same.
 
Has there been a player this good that has been sold cheaply by another English Club?

The one other that comes to mind is Debryne.

Imagine if Chelsea had kept both of these two.
 
Salah is carrying their attack, but it's not as if he is carrying the whole team to the title on his own. Van Dijk has been carrying their defense just as much, given how poor their full-backs have been and Konate and Alisson were out for some time too. And, has there been better performing defensive/central midfielders than Gravenberch and MacAlister this season (Caicedo has been solid but can't think of anyone else)?
 
Difference between Gerrard and Salah is that Salah makes those around him better. Gerrard had the nickname Stevie Me for a reason, he wanted to do everything and be the main man. Salah is quite happy to sit there doing nothing letting others play their games, waiting for his moment.
 
11101 said:
Difference between Gerrard and Salah is that Salah makes those around him better. Gerrard had the nickname Stevie Me for a reason, he wanted to do everything and be the main man. Salah is quite happy to sit there doing nothing letting others play their games, waiting for his moment.
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Gerrard carried a team with much worse players. Scored in every cup final such was his crucial contribution. He was an incredible footballer regardless of the nickname rivals came up with. A characteristic of recent Liverpool has been that it’s a well-balanced team with quality everywhere on the pitch. Gerrard wasn’t afforded this luxury - although he dove-tailed very well with Suarez and Torres when given the chance.
 
11101 said:
Difference between Gerrard and Salah is that Salah makes those around him better. Gerrard had the nickname Stevie Me for a reason, he wanted to do everything and be the main man. Salah is quite happy to sit there doing nothing letting others play their games, waiting for his moment.
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But this is one of the reasons why some rank others ahead of him, despite his stats. The quality of his all round performances (aside from those 'moments' you mention) is often questionable. Again, you can't argue against his ability to be a match winner so often, but when I watch him play actual whole games, I don't say to myself 'that's clearly the best player in Premier League history'. But that's just me.
 
PickledRed said:
Gerrard carried a team with much worse players. Scored in every cup final such was his crucial contribution. He was an incredible footballer regardless of the nickname rivals came up with. A characteristic of recent Liverpool has been that it’s a well-balanced team with quality everywhere on the pitch. Gerrard wasn’t afforded this luxury - although he dove-tailed very well with Suarez and Torres when given the chance.
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I think a lot of the current Liverpool team are playing well above their level and Salah has something to do with that.

Gerrard played with some brilliant players but he always wanted to be the main man. Scoring in every cup final was what he was about. When he was on his game he was unstoppable. If it wasn't working for him he could never help others in the team step up the way Salah does.
 
11101 said:
I think a lot of the current Liverpool team are playing well above their level and Salah has something to do with that.

Gerrard played with some brilliant players but he always wanted to be the main man. Scoring in every cup final was what he was about. When he was on his game he was unstoppable. If it wasn't working for him he could never help others in the team step up the way Salah does.
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Salah plays with better players, Torres Alonso Suarez Sturridge Owen had no issues stepping up.
 
padr81 said:
You don't think a player winning multiple champions leagues with a Premier League club counts as to how they're seen in the Premier League?
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How they perform in the Premier League is what counts if you are only talking about the best players in the Premier League era. Alan Shearer never did it in Europe, he scored 260 PL goals. I rest my case.
 
renatosanches85 said:
How they perform in the Premier League is what counts if you are only talking about the best players in the Premier League era. Alan Shearer never did it in Europe, he scored 260 PL goals. I rest my case.
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That makes literally zero sense. We're not talking about Shearer, we're talking about 2 players with similar records, similar stats, with similar achievements. Yes how they perform in Europe does matter.

For what its worth Salah should be above Shearer too.
 
PickledRed said:
Gerrard carried a team with much worse players. Scored in every cup final such was his crucial contribution. He was an incredible footballer regardless of the nickname rivals came up with. A characteristic of recent Liverpool has been that it’s a well-balanced team with quality everywhere on the pitch. Gerrard wasn’t afforded this luxury - although he dove-tailed very well with Suarez and Torres when given the chance.
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He played with some great players, had 2 top class midfielders with him with some amazing strikers.

His teams have been massively underrated.
 
padr81 said:
That makes literally zero sense. We're not talking about Shearer, we're talking about 2 players with similar records, similar stats, with similar achievements. Yes how they perform in Europe does matter.

For what its worth Salah should be above Shearer too.
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How you can talk about PL greats, but then bring their exploits in different competitions into the discussion makes zero sense. Sure throw in the worthless cup and the FA cup while you’re at it. By your logic, Henry is the PL GOAT over Salah as he has done it in the World Cup and Salah never has.
 
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renatosanches85 said:
How you can talk about PL greats, but then bring their exploits in different competitions into the discussion makes zero sense. Sure throw in the worthless cup and the FA cup while you’re at it. By your logic, Henry is the PL GOAT over Salah as he has done it in the World Cup and Salah never has.
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Do you think Ole's CL winner had no effect on his standing in PL strikers, really?

91 goals in 235 games. The idea he's just some kind of rotation option in PL history is baffling and his career in the league is elevated because of that moment. It is what it is.

If you have any footage of Henry playing for Arsenal at the WC, I'll allow it.
 
padr81 said:
Do you think Ole's CL winner had no effect on his standing in PL strikers, really?

91 goals in 235 games. The idea he's just some kind of rotation option in PL history is baffling and his career in the league is elevated because of that moment. It is what it is.
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P
padr81 said:
Do you think Ole's CL winner had no effect on his standing in PL strikers, really?

91 goals in 235 games. The idea he's just some kind of rotation option in PL history is baffling and his career in the league is elevated because of that moment. It is what it is.

If you have any footage of Henry playing for Arsenal at the WC, I'll allow it.
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Solskjaer is not in the discussion for top premier league strikers, everyone knows he was a “super sub” and a good squad player at United.

You’re wrong. I’m not wasting anymore of my posts on this discussion. But you’re wrong, simple as.
 
he doesn’t make me feel anything. clearly a good player and scores loads of goals. especially against us. but it doesn’t feel like it used to when someone like henry was scoring. could be because we were better then, could be that his goals tended to be worldies, rather than from balls that ricocheted off 5 people before landing at his feet for a tap in. he’s good, but he’s not memorable. i’m not telling my grandkids i was lucky enough to see salah play.
 
rimaldo said:
he doesn’t make me feel anything. clearly a good player and scores loads of goals. especially against us. but it doesn’t feel like it used to when someone like henry was scoring. could be because we were better then, could be that his goals tended to be worldies, rather than from balls that ricocheted off 5 people before landing at his feet for a tap in. he’s good, but he’s not memorable. i’m not telling my grandkids i was lucky enough to see salah play.
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Yeah I'm with you on this. I begrudgingly was amazed with Suarez and Torres at Liverpool but Salah doesn't make me feel anything other than man, he's efficient.
 
Going to absolutely batter Henry 20/20 season. Could probably do it in their next PL game if he is not rested against Southampton.
 
Lay said:
Yeah I'm with you on this. I begrudgingly was amazed with Suarez and Torres at Liverpool but Salah doesn't make me feel anything other than man, he's efficient.
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I love Lucho, with Torres I just like the lad, not that much the footballer.
Salah has more finesse than both so it's a bit weird that some here do not see his quality, merely eficcient it's another type of player than Mo.
 
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