There is no logical way to compare defenders from eras 20 years apart, without significant biases coming into play.
Mo Salah
- Thread starter Robbie Boy
- Start date
There is no logical way to compare defenders from eras 20 years apart, without significant biases coming into play.
Maybe so in terms of individuals, however tactics have evolved and made defending better in the different ways.
I think you will find that both defending and attacking is worse now than *checks notes* when United were really good. As a result, we can dismiss all comparisons accordingly.
Is that what he's asking? So that's 62millions in 3 years. That's a lot of money, even frontloading it, unless they can swing giving him something like 50 millions in the first season...
He's at an age where his level might drop off massively from one day to the next, it's a risk
My personal opinion but the time when Henry & RVN were scoring for fun in the PL it was a very average league with a consistent two horse race. I found the football very poor and boring & would constantly watch other leagues.
Now it's much more different and very competitive even if this season is a write off ever since City lost Rodri.
Salah is not as aesthetic as Henry but he is just as consistent and has a few years left to make the record near unbreakable as he likes if he signs a contract.
You know what is a guaranteed drop-off? Letting him leave and trying to replace him.
There's nobody in world football they could realistically get (especially without the benefit of a transfer fee in return for him going) that can replicate what he gives them. Even if he drops off from 50 G+A a season to 30, they are going to struggle to find somebody who can come in and give them that immediately.
Yes it's a risk, but it's a bigger risk letting him go IMO. I'd rather take a chance that he will continue to play at a high-level considering he is in phenomenal physical shape and we're in an era where players are playing at elite level until their late 30's now, and is having the best season of his career at 32/33.
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They'd be mad not to keep him. No way are they going to find a suitable replacement, even forgetting about TAA and VVD.
It was never a 2 horse race when RVN was at United. He was at United from summer 2001 - 2006. Man United won 1 title, Arsenal 2 and Chelsea 2. Liverpool also finished 2nd in one of them 5 seasons.
Like I also said, goals and assists are not the only metric to judge players on.
I don't think defending is better at all even due to tactics. The only things that have changed are higher defensive lines, pressing from midfield, and attackers expected to track back and defend from the front.
Once the midfield press has been bypassed and the high line gets exposed, along with wing backs being high up the pitch getting exposed, it leaves the centre backs to do the defending and they aren't as good at 1 on 1 defending like centre backs in the past.
Defenders rely on the press of the midfield and high lines to do the defending for them, reliance on that has resulted in less pure defending.
The best PL centre backs today are Van Dijk, Saliba, Gabriel, Dias. None of them have the quality at pure defending compared to Adams, Campbell, Rio, Vidic, Carvalho, Terry, Kompany.
I’d very confidently say that this is more so the case for attacking than defending. Defending has actually evolved to be higher risk, higher reward. Which benefits attackers in both senses.
1. As an attacker defenders on your team passing the ball out from the back results in quicker transitions and better quality attacking scenarios.
2. As an attacker, defenders on the opposition team are being asked to do more on the ball which in turn makes them more prone to individual errors which lead to goal scoring opportunities.
Not every team plays a high line though, teams are much more organised now, small teams go to big teams and make it incredibly difficult to score against as all players contribute to the defence.
"One versus One defending....which was the style...at the time"Are they though? or is it that the both the art of defending has changed and football has also evolved to give a lot more advantage to the attacking players? I loved the old style of defending, man and ball, nowadays that can be a red card, minimum free kick. Defending and tackling in particular has become a lot more difficult for defenders to execute successfully. Defenders are also now meant to be good enough to play it around their own penalty area before finding a dividing pass into the midfield or 40 yard pass to a forward in space. Could you imagine the great back four of Winterburn, Adams, Bould and Dixon doing that? They defended and that was it.
I think the bolded bit is a bit of a lazy argument these days, the game has eveolved into a more attacking spectacle, which is good overall, even though it still saddens me that the art of tackling from behing, taking man and ball etc. has been lost.
In pure defending aspect, defenders 20 years ago were much better, and it's not even close, they had to deal with some real monsters of attackers 1v1 compared to today where it's all about tactics and no freedom. 1v1 and physicality, old school defenders, easily. Modern ones have ball playing and tactical versatility over the old ones. that's about it. Everything else is bias.
Defenders do *more* 1vs1 defending these days than in the early 00s though. Modern defenders are worse I think, but also it's a much harder role to play then back in the day
If we move Messi to false 9, who is the best RW post 2000?
Robben? Bale?
@Hammondo
Salah is better than them for me.
Robben? Bale?
@Hammondo
Salah is better than them for me.
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You think Robben and bale were better than Salah?
Talking about defending though, it's far more about the team defence than individual defense now. Just as it's far less about the individual attacker and more about the team attack.
Defenses are more compact due to players being more athletic, defenders going to ground less, and more team organisation.
Attacks have done the same, more athletic, more organised. It's less about individuals and moments. Taking individuals from the past and having them attempt their individual attacks on todays defenses wouldn't work well.
Defenses are more compact due to players being more athletic, defenders going to ground less, and more team organisation.
Attacks have done the same, more athletic, more organised. It's less about individuals and moments. Taking individuals from the past and having them attempt their individual attacks on todays defenses wouldn't work well.
Thanks. It'll be interesting to see which of these he can catch.
I think it's just the combined, which is also the most important.
@Hammondo is good but I wouldn't put them in the same bracket as the other three.
I agree with you. That's the big one.
With the preponderance of goal/assist chat these days, we're probably not far off going full blown ice hockey and introducing the 'points' terminology, where either a goal or an assist counts as one point.
I'm joking, but only slightly......
I didnt know my football skills were so well known.
Always found it odd how the scousers did the Mo Salah chant based on a Manchester band's song.