He was on trial with Fulham before we signed him but I'm not sure if he was ever signed to them. Yeah Wych, Djalo, Peplow, Max Thompson, Allen, Smethurst and Elechi have all been released as far as I know. Remi Thompson was released last year and is with Huddersfield now where he has already played for their u23s
Miscellaneous Reserve/Youth News
- Thread starter Cevno
- Start date
No problem
2 goals at U19 level is ridiculous for a 15 year old
In theory, and I haven’t seen the game, but these things always seem amazing until you see that they were two tap-ins, which then indicates a lot less.
Tournament in Munich for your U16... Semi-Final
Bayern Munich - Manchester United
3:3 in the regular playing team. But Bayern won the penalty shooting.
Bayern Munich - Manchester United
3:3 in the regular playing team. But Bayern won the penalty shooting.
Yeah those two goals are from a corner and a freekick.
Man City beat Inter after penalties, and if United beat Liverpool tomorrow, we will face City in the quater-finals of the UEFA Youth League.
U16s lost 5-0 to RB Leipzig in the third place play off.
We played 10 U15s + Elanga in that game iirc.
Does anybody know from which club new u15 goalie Mackenzie Chapman joined us ?
Burnley
Thanks, thought it was
U16 and U12's off to the prestigious MIC cup in Spain 28th march, made the quarter final and semis respectively last year. Some of the worlds best talent have come through this tourni.
I love this post...
Rashford has only played 100+ games because of injury to others...
Lingard has got 100+ games but is only developing now...
McTominay is only playing because he is tall...
Plenty of players in the past got chances for exactly the same reasons...luck, right stage of development, physical attributes...and of course sheer talent.
The whole issue here is opportunity. And I think one or two posters are discussing the fact that City and Chelsea don't seem to want to give their youngsters the opportunity whereas we always have done.
How lucky they are, or how tall they are, or how late they have developed is completely irrelevant.
It's embarrassing to fellow United "fans" downplay academy's achievements. Academies should be based on only how many players they supply to the first team and nothing else. Unless, Chelsea's first team squad has 3-4 academy players playing regularly for them(like we've Rashford, McTominay and Lingard(Pogba at a stretch) then it'll be always considered as inferior to us, no matter how much FA Youth Cups they win.
Disagree, an academy should be judged on the players it produces. Whether it makes their first team or not. For example McKenna and our academy should get the credit and praise for players they develop and produce. If Mourinho/LVG/Moyes/whoever decide to never give them a chance then why should McKenna and the academy lose the credit? They have no control of playing players in the first team. Youth coaches and academies job is to produce and develop young players. Once they are older it's up to first team staff, not academy staff. Chelsea for example are producing good players and they deserve recognition. Their transition into the first team is almost non-existent which they deserve criticism for. But they are two different things. One is controlled by the academy staff, one is controlled by first team staff. Say Someone like Dom Solanke left Chelsea, he still came all through Chelseas academy and they deserve a lot of credit for that. Whether he goes onto make it at Liverpool now or he made it at Chelsea the academy did its job. What failed was the first team transitioning something the academy can't really control.
We do both very well. Chelsea and City are currently only doing one well.
Chelsea left Solanke to rot for a year in the reserves because he wouldn't sign a new contract. The same is happening with Bobby Duncan at City this year.
The primary focus of an academy is to develop players for the first team. If they're not transitioning into first team players, then maybe they're not good enough. Academies of La Masia and Ajax are called amongst the history's best because they've consistently produced players for the first team.
What you're saying is correct but if something isn't really doing it's primary job, whatever the reasons then we can't say that it has been a success.
I'm fully aware, but Solanke has more to do with first team making him sit in the reserves, not the academy staff. But yes that is an aspect at both clubs which is very distasteful. It is more the clubs stance on contract disputes which should be criticised though not the academy staff.
If we take this to the nth degree then every academy in the game is successful at some level because even if the players don't make it with them, they will with someone else, which is a bit of a cop out and doesn't make much sense.
KM's point is correct; the only way to judge an academy is by the quality of player it brings through. It's a damning indictment on Chelsea that they have quality players in their ranks and they've done the square root of nothing with them.
Umm no they won't because they won't be making it at PL clubs or in other top divisions.
His point isn't correct because his whole point is about first team managers giving youth players chances which has nothing to do with academy staff. Nicky Butt and McKenna can't force Mourinho to play young players.
Hence why I said nth degree.
You can only judge an academy on the kids who are brought through to the first team, and then on a secondary level, you can look to the numbers of graduates at other teams. But first and foremost, it is the players you bring through to your own team that is of primary concern.
If your point was correct and widely held then everyone would be lauding the academies of Real, the Milan clubs and Juve, and in the future possibly Chelsea and City, because of the amount of graduates from their academies playing in the rest of the league. Even by that metric, you'll see that the traditionally top youth academies who bring players through to their own first teams dominate here as well, with Utd, Barca, Ajax being among the best, and in England it's utd by a long way, followed by West Ham.
You can have players and teams who do wonders at youth level, who then fade into obscurity and then you get the opposite where the players develop because the club gave them every possible chance, e.g. Scholes and Lingard. Both of those two are a testament to the culture of United in bringing kids through, and neither would have ever made it at any other club in the country, even at City with their plastic Barca methods, as they have been proven to not have the patience required and are content to stockpile the best players without having a clue as to how to develop them.
Everybody is lauding the Chelsea and City academies bar a few on here. I have to agree that you can only judge an academy by the quality of its output. Transitioning to the first team (via the terrible U23/reserves) system at the same club is an entirely separate process in my eyes, and totally out of the control of academy coaches. There's also a common desire for our fans to use examples like Evans and Cleverley as to why our current system is better than our peers'. But those players came through the system in the mid 2000s. Look at the very recent academy graduates and Chelsea are clearly superior to us with more players playing in the PL, Erdivise and Championship as first team regulars. They typically have more than double the number of academy players called up to represent England in the junior levels and City are now starting to do the same. Citys academy success is mirroring Chelseas rise in London and will transfer to Manchester in a few years too if we don't get our act together, though it seems with the poaching of City scouts and other things we are starting to turn things around. Most academy parents and even former scouts at the club say the young talent in Manchester mostly want to go to City now and that needs to be reversed.
You've literally taken everything I've mentioned out of context, I never questioned the ability of Rashford, I just stated that his opportunity with the first team albeit successful was down to us having no fit strikers at the time, I even recall talk of recalling back Ashley Fletcher from his loan if the injury crisis worsened (who may I add would have probably got the nod ahead of Rash if he wasn't on loan)
As for Lingard yeah that's great that he's got 100+ games for us, and every single one of those games contributed to his recent spell of form, he's been playing with real CONSISTENCY this season, being that this is his 3rd proper season in the First team at United, personally he'd only really shown glimpses of what he can do and therefore been a bit part squad player, but now he's forcing his name in the starting 11.
These things aren't negative as a whole but in reference to giving opportunities to youngsters in the youth team it doesn't really show positive. McTominay being the example because he's the most recent graduate from the 23's to stake their claim for a place in the first team, but he was not the best performer in the 23's last season albeit they weren't the greatest bunch, another thing being whenever I watched them he played upfront. So for me, his height played a part in Mourinho's decision to play him in the middle. Again it's not a bad thing because he's actually been playing alright.
And yeah luck is luck, but if a tall player is getting a chance over a more talented player because of his height, or a player's been given more chances because he's a late developer which may stop another player from getting a looking, I think it does then become relevant.
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Rashford made the first team squad in November (?) when Fletcher was still here so he obviously wouldn't have got the nod ahead of Rashford.
van Gaal's whole philosophy is about about having thin squads bolstered by youth. He could have easily signed another striker in January.
McTominay was also playing as a striker for the u23s because we had no striker. Others like Redmond also took a turn playing there at times. He isn't being played because of his height but because he is better than the other CMs, who are frankly quite poor. Redmond is rubbish and Willock is technically skilled but not very effective.
It's surprising how divisive McTominay is with the fans at the moment. Almost as bad as the shit Gibson and Cleverley were getting before they moved on. The problem here is the perception that McTominay isn't a world class prospect, and hence is not good enough to be a United player.
But the fact is that the manager thinks that playing McTominay brings something to the team that his other midfielders don't and till Jose remains the boss, it is going to be his call and Jose has had teams featuring some of the best midfielders in the game over the years, and he has clearly seen something in Scott this season to play him in big games. Sometimes the eye test is a poor way for fans to judge a player, especially a DM.
We should appreciate the fact that he's gone from being a fringe squad player that was there to make up the numbers to being in with a shout at starting.
But the fact is that the manager thinks that playing McTominay brings something to the team that his other midfielders don't and till Jose remains the boss, it is going to be his call and Jose has had teams featuring some of the best midfielders in the game over the years, and he has clearly seen something in Scott this season to play him in big games. Sometimes the eye test is a poor way for fans to judge a player, especially a DM.
We should appreciate the fact that he's gone from being a fringe squad player that was there to make up the numbers to being in with a shout at starting.
Much as I'm not particularly excited about McTominay, surely we can all at least get excited that he seems to have pushed Fellaini out of the squad!
He has been injured, had a surgery not out of the squad due to McTominay good form.
Fact of the matter is he made his debut in February, so it's kinda irrelevant that he made the matchday squad in November and even further boosts my point that his chance was down to injury.
Also it's just in my opinion that McTominay isn't good enough for our midfield, stepping away from youth talk, we've been linked to players like Kroos and Milankovic-Savic in the middle, and looking at what he offers on the pitch, his potential doesn't reach anywhere near that mark. I think he's overrated because he's come through the academy, simple as, yh he may go on to have a decent career in the prem hopefully, but I don't think it'll be at United.
That's probably because he is more of a Gibson, Cleverley type talent, than a Pogba, Matic and they were both better than him technically but look what happened to them, Cleverley not as much but Gibson most definitely hasn't lived up to his potential. Even comparing him to Danny Drinkwater or Matty James even they looked like much bigger talents at his age and we still let them go.
I don't think he is poor I just feel we should aim higher as I want to see us win a CL again.
Who is this smaller midfield player who is more talented than McTominay? Who is this 'other player' not getting a look-in because Lingard is playing?
I really don't understand any of your points at all.
There are very few 17 year-old players that are so outstanding in the reserves that they 'force' their way into first team reckoning.
In our history I can think of Duncan Edwards, Norman Whiteside and Ryan Giggs.
That's about it.
So all the other 250+ players have got into the first team because:
a) someone was injured
b) the manager wanted to rest someone and thus a junior got into the team
c) the manager was testing them in lesser competitive matches as part of their development
d) the manager rates the player in very specific circumstances/roles
e) they were ready after a longer period of development
So Rashford got in because of injury. Lingard got in because he was tested in lesser games, took time to develop but gave the manager a different option. McTominay got in because of injury to others and the fact that he is tactically disciplined, has a great attitude and can physically manage it.
You might not like these players...that's absolutely fair enough.
You might want United to go out and buy Kroos or whoever....that's absolutely fair enough.
So...isn't it great that our manager is playing plenty of youth players on a regular basis?
It's not very complex to me...but I must be missing something obvious?
Honestly, what you're missing is that this has gone completely off topic from my initial statement, the only reason I mentioned McTominay was because I question whether he was a 'top talent' in terms of players we produce in the academy in comparison to others, namingly Chelsea and City.
Yes everything you've said is true but it has no real relevance to my initial argument, the main point behind me mentioning Lingard was that he's 25 years old. Yeah, he's come through the academy, but if we're talking about giving opportunities to 'YOUTH' in this 17/18 season his name really shouldn't be mentioned, because he's not a youth anymore, also I didn't criticise his development plan, I highlighted it.
McTominay is not bad, he just wasn't the best midfielder in the 23's for me, he was probably on the same level as Willock, honestly there aren't a lot of players worth mentioning because the team didn't do well, there's Harrop who left because of lack of opportunities, and Kehinde in the 23's he looks a better prospect for me, which is why I mentioned Scott just fits the managers philosophy because he is indeed a giant.
I don't think McTominay's height is the only reason he has pushed ahead of the likes of Kehinde and Willock...
No of course not - it probably has to do with mentality more than anything. But at the same time - you are probably more likely to earlier be given a chance if you are bigger. Scott McTominay could cope with a physical team - whereas quite a few smaller players can't.
OK...so your points are...in your opinion:
1. McTominay is not as good as some talents at Chelsea or Manchester City
2. We can't count Lingard as a youth player anymore because he is 25
3. You think Kehinde is a better prospect than McTominay
4. McTominay is only getting games in the first team because 'he is indeed a giant'.
Have I got that right?
I don't regard McTominay as a Top Talent coming through the academy, in comparison to players we've brought through in the past, and his age mates around the country, let alone around the world, he's decent.
And I didn't say it was the only reason, I can't speak for what I don't see in training because I'm not there, but what I do see, which is game footage. Also, I reiterate in the 23's he wasn't a standout performer for me, so I feel his height has worked in his favor.
McTominay never really stood out for me at lower levels either, but it makes sense when you read about how much he has grown physically - and the problems that created for him. But we don't see players in training, coaches do. So quite clearly they saw something in McTominay that we didn't see.
Fair enough, he's done extremely well especially with the obstacles in his development, but I still don't see him as being good enough for the first team in the long term, I've gotta give it to him, he hasn't looked out of place so far, excluding yesterdays performance of course
Honestly, I just wouldn't be surprised if he ended up in the championship or maybe, just maybe at a lower level prem side.
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Fair enough, he's done extremely well especially with the obstacles in his development, but I still don't see him as being good enough for the first team in the long term, I've gotta give it to him, he hasn't looked out of place so far, excluding yesterdays performance of course
Honestly, I just wouldn't be surprised if he ended up in the championship or maybe, just maybe at a lower level prem side.
People used to make those wild guesses about lingard, Fletcher etc too. Reserve judgement
Also about cleverly, gibson, powell,etc
John O'Shea
Marc Wilson
Darron Gibson
Donald Love
Paddy McNair
Ashley Fletcher
All are likely to be relegated to League One with Sunderland this season!
Marc Wilson
Darron Gibson
Donald Love
Paddy McNair
Ashley Fletcher
All are likely to be relegated to League One with Sunderland this season!