Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Maybe not but Klopp set a style to his play that ended up dominating at home and abroad, he resisted calls to be more pragmatic to get more instant results or a domestic cup.

Infact if an FA Cup was the be all and end all you'd still have Wenger incharge. I mean don't get me wrong it was a very good achievement given your opponents in the semi and the final but in terms of your long term evolution it means little either way.

Liverpool only won stuff when they became more conservative. They weren't the free-flow attacking team of 17/18 in 18/19 or, especially, 19/20. They were far less naive in the latter two seasons and that is why they have actually ended with trophies.

The FA Cup was good considering he has only been in charge half a season; I doubt fans were even expecting that. To be honest, they are not going to challenge for the league title, they just don't have the resources. I think their aim is to get top four. That is why Wenger was actually sacked because he stopped getting top four.
 
Annoyed me the way he celebrated the win for some reason. He looked like it was a cup final.

Something about him just irritates me.
 
Annoyed me the way he celebrated the win for some reason. He looked like it was a cup final.

Something about him just irritates me.
That was nothing compared to how he celebrated the win vs WHU
 
Annoyed me the way he celebrated the win for some reason. He looked like it was a cup final.

Something about him just irritates me.
He has a small club mentality feel to him. The way he sets his team up, the way his players waste time even against the likes of Rapid vienna. To be fair to him he has made them hard to beat. I am not fearful of arsenal but I don't like playing them anymore knowing how they set up. So huge credit to him for that, making them defensively so organized.
 
He is highly defensive manager who would occasionally over achieve but at the end of the day it's highly unlikely his Arsenal would amount to much and any Arsenal fan thinking he would suddenly transform into attacking coach with better players is living in denial just like Ole with United .

I’m not really sure how anybody can say with any great certainty what type of manager he is based on less than a year in management and having inherited a poor team from Emery. He’s playing to our strengths at the moments it’s not pretty but we don’t have the players to play open expansive football and to try and do so would be asking to get thumped like what used to happen to Wenger.
 
Won them the FA cup last year.
Making them steady this year so far.
His football isn’t the best but he is still picking up points while finding his best formation and team. He has done well for them but not spectacular be interesting to see how they continue
 
He doesn't have a problem setting his team up in the big games (IIRC they were good against Spurs and Chelsea last season but lost) but against teams they are expected to beat they struggle and have been underwhelming.

But it's clear what he expects from his team, make them difficult to beat and more compact. The goals would follow.
 
That is your opinion though. According to statistics, the chances Arsenal had warranted a xG of 0.3. It was a draw written all over it whether you like it or not. They were better than us in the first half because of our formation. The second half they didn’t threaten us except for a brief moment. But the media today are painting Artetas win as a masterclass. As if they won because they were so good. :wenger:

I really don’t understand why our players didn’t turn up and I haven’t been so disappointed in a loss for a very long time. Not even against Tottenham, because tbf we pretty much deserved that by a team that played really well. But yesterday? Nah I’m not having that.

The media do seem to like Arteta but tbf he has been very good when you consider just how bad Arsenal actually were. They were conceding about 15-20 shots on goal every single game without fail.

Man Utd are 10x better than that performance, but not sure OGS will bring it out of them.
 
That's a bit much.

Arteta did really well today but let's see how they progress. They were also fortunate to come up against a very poor United team that gets outplayed by the likes of Brighton and Palace.
Have you watched Gabriel play?
 
He should have been sent off in an ideal scenario. There was a yellow card worthy foul before he got a yellow, and I've no idea how he didn't get the yellow for the foul on Mason
It changes absolutely nothing regarding my statement
 
The media do seem to like Arteta but tbf he has been very good when you consider just how bad Arsenal actually were. They were conceding about 15-20 shots on goal every single game without fail.

Man Utd are 10x better than that performance, but not sure OGS will bring it out of them.

Since Artetas taken over Arsenal have lower xG and higher xA. That means that you are scoring more than you should and not conceding as much as you should. And Arteta do even have less points than Emery picked up, both his first and last 26 games in charge. Arsenal are a dull team, regardless of that fluke FA cup and a charity shield that only Arsenal and Mourinho are so happy to talk about. I have pretty much seen all of Arsenals fixtures this season. In how many can you truly claim that you deserved to win? Fulham away and Dundalk home is the two games that springs to mind.
People are talking about seeing a progress, but I really don’t. Can you explain for me which exact progress? More sound defensively? What are his philosophy? How do he want to set up his team long term? Like Pep? Will he ever have the right players for that system?

If your asking me I would be worried if I were an Arsenal fan. Artetas been your manager since December. Jury is still out on your new players as we all know new players can come in and play really good in the beginning, conning people that they’re good. Mustafi was your saviour and really good in his first 20 games, Luiz aswell, Willian got hyped up aswell after his 2 “assists” against Fulham. All in all, my point is that you don’t seem to have Rashford or Greenwood potential player in your youth ranks, which means you rely on transfers. But Arsenal signing themselves out of this mess of rubbish players will take atleast 4 transfers windows. And your best player is 33-34 then.
 
Since Artetas taken over Arsenal have lower xG and higher xA. That means that you are scoring more than you should and not conceding as much as you should. And Arteta do even have less points than Emery picked up, both his first and last 26 games in charge. Arsenal are a dull team, regardless of that fluke FA cup and a charity shield that only Arsenal and Mourinho are so happy to talk about. I have pretty much seen all of Arsenals fixtures this season. In how many can you truly claim that you deserved to win? Fulham away and Dundalk home is the two games that springs to mind.
People are talking about seeing a progress, but I really don’t. Can you explain for me which exact progress? More sound defensively? What are his philosophy? How do he want to set up his team long term? Like Pep? Will he ever have the right players for that system?

If your asking me I would be worried if I were an Arsenal fan. Artetas been your manager since December. Jury is still out on your new players as we all know new players can come in and play really good in the beginning, conning people that they’re good. Mustafi was your saviour and really good in his first 20 games, Luiz aswell, Willian got hyped up aswell after his 2 “assists” against Fulham. All in all, my point is that you don’t seem to have Rashford or Greenwood potential player in your youth ranks, which means you rely on transfers. But Arsenal signing themselves out of this mess of rubbish players will take atleast 4 transfers windows. And your best player is 33-34 then.

Remember what he was taking over. This Arsenal team hadn't been coached to defend with a proper structure under Wenger, so that was embedded in the players. By the end of Emery's reign he had truly lost the players. The players didn't understand his tactics, he was all over the place trying to play Torriera as a 10 & Ceballos as a pivot. We were conceding over 30 shots against Watford. The captain had been boo'd walking of the pitch & had reacted to the support & was exiled. We were a mess.

This team needed someone to coach them into a proper structure. Everyone was crying out for it. Arsenal were soft, were unorganised, didn't like to put the effort in off the ball, were easy to play through, lacked strength, lacked pace in midfield & defence, had no spine or backbone. I could go on.

So Arteta did what most sensible managers would do. He went to rectify this. He's done it to a surprisingly decent degree of success, for someone that's in their first job.

Therefore, I don't get the stick he gets just now. Did people really expect him to implement a high line with the likes of David Luiz & Mustafi as central defenders? Did people expect him to try a high pressing system with the likes of Xhaka & Guendouzi trying to cover big areas in central midfield?

Im sure the system will evolve. Heck, it even evolved last night. I was expecting a lower block like we played against City & Liverpool, but we actually pressed quite high yesterday. I was very pleasantly surprised, because it tells me he is trusting the players he has brought in. And those players I mentioned in the previous paragraph, were any of those playing?

We aren't great. We're a very good bit off that. But most sane Arsenal fans can see we are going the right way, and that we just have to be patient. There will be more frustration, results like the Leicester game even. We need to find more creativity, that's for sure. Let's not judge him too soon though, and let him try and get more of his own players in, and see from there.
 
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Annoyed me the way he celebrated the win for some reason. He looked like it was a cup final.

Something about him just irritates me.

He is not manager character, judging by his looks. More like a dolphin trainer or something like that.

Or the guy sitting behind Guardiola.
 
Last week he was being criticized but suddenly he has a plan. Football punditry is so reactive. I have watched Arsenal this season and they have been woeful. The very fact that despite our horrible start, if we win our game in hand, we will be 2 points behind them shows how bad both Ole and Arteta have been this season.
 
Last week he was being criticized but suddenly he has a plan. Football punditry is so reactive. I have watched Arsenal this season and they have been woeful. The very fact that despite our horrible start, if we win our game in hand, we will be 2 points behind them shows how bad both Ole and Arteta have been this season.

You can't really take the league table as a judge just now. If results go Arsenal's way they could end up in the top 4 this weekend, & that's after being at the Etihad, Anfield & Old Trafford already.
 
He beat a shite man united side, he’s no massiah I think they even got a bit lucky yesterday. Think they will get beat fairly often this season
 
He has a small club mentality feel to him. The way he sets his team up, the way his players waste time even against the likes of Rapid vienna. To be fair to him he has made them hard to beat. I am not fearful of arsenal but I don't like playing them anymore knowing how they set up. So huge credit to him for that, making them defensively so organized.

Same way I feel. Similar to Wolves a couple years ago when they were our bogey team, you just knew the game was going to be a slop fest and low scoring. I watched us play potentially the worst we played all year and yet we lost on a stupid penalty that should have never occurred. It's just strange because you never feel like Arsenal will score out of their own doing, but they can hurt you if you let them win the ball back in your own half.

Not sure what to think about Arteta, sure he's made them difficult to beat but it's literally the antithesis of Wenger, who was naive to a fault in playing beautifully and attacking any team he came up against. Maybe with time and further recruitment he creates a more exciting brand of football, but at the same time it's not like Arsenal have hung him out to dry. I still have doubts that Arsenal can make top 4 with that squad, and if they can't manage that with his style then why the hell is he even there? Now, if they do get top 4 over us or Chelsea, then by all means he should be backed and lets see what happens in his plans.
 
Same way I feel. Similar to Wolves a couple years ago when they were our bogey team, you just knew the game was going to be a slop fest and low scoring. I watched us play potentially the worst we played all year and yet we lost on a stupid penalty that should have never occurred. It's just strange because you never feel like Arsenal will score out of their own doing, but they can hurt you if you let them win the ball back in your own half.

Not sure what to think about Arteta, sure he's made them difficult to beat but it's literally the antithesis of Wenger, who was naive to a fault in playing beautifully and attacking any team he came up against. Maybe with time and further recruitment he creates a more exciting brand of football, but at the same time it's not like Arsenal have hung him out to dry. I still have doubts that Arsenal can make top 4 with that squad, and if they can't manage that with his style then why the hell is he even there? Now, if they do get top 4 over us or Chelsea, then by all means he should be backed and lets see what happens in his plans.
I might be wrong but long term this style is not sustainable. I know media like to overhype things but the win was not some kind of tactical masterclass like some outlet are suggesting. It was no way a Jose 2004-06 performance by arsenal.
 
I find him similair to Ole.

Decent purchases for once when compared to other managers. Having been an ex player/fandl of the club he understands what the club needs but tactically not there to get the club back to its peak.
 
One thing he deserves a ton of credit for is the fact that Arsenal have conceded the least goals in the league so far. This has been an Achilles heel of theirs for years to the point where it was becoming a parody of itself and its plain to see coaching has played a major part in this.
 
I wasn't even that convinced about him when they got him on the job but for me he showed he's a great manager in the making and it's first time in ages I think Arsenal are moving on the right track. Attacking football or not is all nonsense for me. Arsenal have been a very naive attacking team for ages and they were a joke thanks to this. It is time for them to change and to become more cunning with how poor their defensive choices are.
 
Annoyed me the way he celebrated the win for some reason. He looked like it was a cup final.

Something about him just irritates me.
The fact that they beat us by one goal (a penalty) and they’re being praised to all ends, arteta is being hailed as a savior, and we are being viewed as garbage is weird. How is losing by one goal make us garbage? How does winning by one goal to a garbage team make you great? It’s so weird
 
Last week he was being criticized but suddenly he has a plan. Football punditry is so reactive. I have watched Arsenal this season and they have been woeful. The very fact that despite our horrible start, if we win our game in hand, we will be 2 points behind them shows how bad both Ole and Arteta have been this season.
Arsenal have the best defence this season so far, and they have already been to City, United and Liverpool. Their football may not be spectacular but it's effective. They are definitely an improved team now and Gabriel, Partey and Elneny have given them the spine they have lacked for many years. If they can sort out their attack/CF they are a dead cert for top 4.
 
The fact that they beat us by one goal (a penalty) and they’re being praised to all ends, arteta is being hailed as a savior, and we are being viewed as garbage is weird. How is losing by one goal make us garbage? How does winning by one goal to a garbage team make you great? It’s so weird
You're not seeing the bigger picture that @GoonerBear brilliantly depicted. This game doesn't matter that much. Lot of people want United to fail, us included so it gets amplified when you do. Many posts are filled with reactionnary anger and that's understandable after that Leipzig high (amongst other things) but Arteta is doing a very good job. Won't make you any less of a United fan to recognize it.
 
Am I the only one who wasn't impressed even a bit by Arsenal the other day? They played the same way a mid table team usually does against us at OT.

We fecked it ourselves playing with zero intensity and drive right from the very start. All our league performances except the Newcastle game have been very poor and even that game needed a 85th minute winner.
 
This entire page is a goldmine of reactionary condescending nonsense, barring GoonerBear and a couple of others.
 
This entire page is a goldmine of reactionary condescending nonsense, barring GoonerBear and a couple of others.
My favourite comments are the ones telling us we need to play more attacking football. After listening to years of rival fans telling us that our naive attacking football was the wrong way to play, apparently now it's the right way to play?
 
in all, my point is that you don’t seem to have Rashford or Greenwood potential player in your youth ranks, which means you rely on transfers. But Arsenal signing themselves out of this mess of rubbish players will take atleast 4 transfers windows. And your best player is 33-34 then.

I forgot to address this point in my previous post. I don't think it's as bad as you think it is.

Bellerin 25
Holding 25
Chambers 25
Saliba 19
Gabriel 22
Tierney 23
Mavropanos 22
Maitland-Niles 23
Torriera 24
Guendouzi 21
Saka 19
Willock 21
Pepe 25
Nelson 20
Martinelli 19
Smith-Rowe 20
Nketiah 21

Thats the first team squad members who are 25 and under, now that's fairly substantial.
Sure, some of those players might be already deemed to be not wanted (Guendouzi, Torriera for instance), & there's a good few who also might not be deemed good enough. What that will provide is players that we can trade, get funds for.

Now, next summer for instance, realistic targets could be Aouar / Szoboszlai for attacking midfield, and someone like Edouard / Daka for the forward areas. All of a sudden that's more youth added for not a massive outlay.

As for those that are Rashford / Greenwood talented, I'd argue that Saliba / Gabriel, Saka & Martinelli perhaps might be for their positions. As I said, some will inevitably be not good enough & be moved on, others can take good squad roles.
 
This entire page is a goldmine of reactionary condescending nonsense, barring GoonerBear and a couple of others.
My favourite comments are the ones telling us we need to play more attacking football. After listening to years of rival fans telling us that our naive attacking football was the wrong way to play, apparently now it's the right way to play?
It seems you two are quite content the way Arteta has Arsenal playing and expect him to improve with better players assuming the same what do you think Arsenal would achieve point wise total this season because I can't see you guys breaching 70 points mark even if everything goes right for you expecting you guys to finish around 65 points and outside Champions league again ,so if these predictions come to fruition would it be worth playing such dour and uninspiring football.
 
My favourite comments are the ones telling us we need to play more attacking football. After listening to years of rival fans telling us that our naive attacking football was the wrong way to play, apparently now it's the right way to play?

You consistently played entertaining, attacking football when you last won the league. Liverpool and City have been similarly entertaining to watch under Pep/Klopp. So yes, I would say that an emphasis on attacking is the right way to play.
 
My favourite comments are the ones telling us we need to play more attacking football. After listening to years of rival fans telling us that our naive attacking football was the wrong way to play, apparently now it's the right way to play?
But on the flip side, many years Arsenal fans said they wouldn't want Mourinho because he plays shit football and are now raving about a manager that (so far) makes Mou's style look like peak Tika Taka.

We traded 15 years of denial that we'd eventually outscore our opponents "because we're Arsenal". Building a defensive platform first looks like a better theory.

It does though, it becomes a whole lot easier to convince your squad the formula works when it actually works and gets you a trophy against sides that are definitely better than you.
Klopp's style dominated when they spent 150M on 2 of their most important signings: a GK and a CB. Rounding it off with Mane and Salah sure helps but we don't have these yet.
He clearly doesn't like Pepe and who could blame him. If he's given time, Aouar (or better) and an efficient scoring winger, i'm sure our style of play will improve massively.

He started learning his job coaching players like KdB, David Silva, B.Silva, Fernandinho, Aguero and a 300M set of defenders. The transition to Arsenal is pretty rough and he's doing a good job with what he's got.
I think you're overestimating that tbh, Conte won us the title in 2017 and had mass rejection from players that summer who preferred Pep and Klopp. Lampard hasn't (and may never) win anything as a manager but managed to convince Havertz (who would have had the world at his feet had he waited it out at Bayer one more year) to come to Chelsea.

Infact all FA Cup winners since 2012 bar Pep last year all won it off the back of average-poor league season's, three of which wound up sacked by the end of the calender year and one other had to deal with constant protests demanding his removal even while he was winning them.
 
It seems you two are quite content the way Arteta has Arsenal playing and expect him to improve with better players assuming the same what do you think Arsenal would achieve point wise total this season because I can't see you guys breaching 70 points mark even if everything goes right for you expecting you guys to finish around 65 points and outside Champions league again ,so if these predictions come to fruition would it be worth playing such dour and uninspiring football.
The way the current season is going 65 points might be enough to finish top 4. If we can consistently stay up there and challenge for the top 4 this season I'll be content with the football we play, even if we finish 5th or 6th.
You consistently played entertaining, attacking football when you last won the league. Liverpool and City have been similarly entertaining to watch under Pep/Klopp. So yes, I would say that an emphasis on attacking is the right way to play.
All 3 teams you've mentioned had much better players than this current Arsenal squad and were also solid defensively.

I'm not sure what point you're making. Are you criticising Arteta because he can't get this current Arsenal team playing expansive, attacking football whilst also making us difficult to beat? What do you think Arteta should be doing with this current squad that he isn't?
 
But on the flip side, many years Arsenal fans said they wouldn't want Mourinho because he plays shit football and are now raving about a manager that (so far) makes Mou's style look like peak Tika Taka.
Also because he's an arrogant, disrespectful, cnut of a man who's said some very shitty things about one of the greatest managers we've ever had.

If you can't see why Arsenal fans wouldn't want to play dour football under Mourinho, but are happy to play dour football under Arteta, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
The way the current season is going 65 points might be enough to finish top 4. If we can consistently stay up there and challenge for the top 4 this season I'll be content with the football we play, even if we finish 5th or 6th.

All 3 teams you've mentioned had much better players than this current Arsenal squad and were also solid defensively.

I'm not sure what point you're making. Are you criticising Arteta because he can't get this current Arsenal team playing expansive, attacking football whilst also making us difficult to beat? What do you think Arteta should be doing with this current squad that he isn't?

I think he should be showing a hell of a lot more ambition and playing better football. Your squad is full of quality players. Far better than any of the teams around you in the league right now. Which you wouldn’t know from watching you play.

Crystal Palace and Brighton showed what’s possible at Old Trafford this season when we play as badly as we did on Sunday. They completely dismantled us. Brighton really should have scored 6 or 7 goals. I think they set a PL record for the most times hitting woodwork. You’re not seriously telling me Arteta needs to upgrade his squad to show the same attacking ambition as Brighton and Palace?!

It’s also funny to hear Arsenal fans and journalists praising Arteta for making you “tough to beat”. Up until Pogba gifted you that penalty you’d lost 3 out of 4 league fixtures. Turns out scoring goals is an important part of winning football matches.
 
Since Artetas taken over Arsenal have lower xG and higher xA. That means that you are scoring more than you should and not conceding as much as you should. And Arteta do even have less points than Emery picked up, both his first and last 26 games in charge. Arsenal are a dull team, regardless of that fluke FA cup and a charity shield that only Arsenal and Mourinho are so happy to talk about. I have pretty much seen all of Arsenals fixtures this season. In how many can you truly claim that you deserved to win? Fulham away and Dundalk home is the two games that springs to mind.
People are talking about seeing a progress, but I really don’t. Can you explain for me which exact progress? More sound defensively? What are his philosophy? How do he want to set up his team long term? Like Pep? Will he ever have the right players for that system?

If your asking me I would be worried if I were an Arsenal fan. Artetas been your manager since December. Jury is still out on your new players as we all know new players can come in and play really good in the beginning, conning people that they’re good. Mustafi was your saviour and really good in his first 20 games, Luiz aswell, Willian got hyped up aswell after his 2 “assists” against Fulham. All in all, my point is that you don’t seem to have Rashford or Greenwood potential player in your youth ranks, which means you rely on transfers. But Arsenal signing themselves out of this mess of rubbish players will take atleast 4 transfers windows. And your best player is 33-34 then.

xG and XA means nothing, the results do.

Emery was unbeaten for 23 matches after his first 2 games at Arsenal, so his points tally was very good, but we know what happened after that.
If you have watched all of Arsenals games you will see progress - this season they have played Man City away, Liverpool away and Man Utd away already after 7 matches - a tough run.

Progress is Arsenal currently have the best defensive record in the league, they haver signed some excellent players, they just won at OT after all this time.

His philosophy takes time to put into practice, if you judge him on his short time at Arsenal, then judge him on his 'fluked' FA CUP - (not sure how it was fluked?)

You would be worried even though they now have Partey (who is world class) and Gabriel in the spine of their side? As an Arsenal fan I am very excited.

So we don't have Greenwood or Rashford? - how about Bukayo Saka, Eddie Nketiah, Gabriel Martinelli, William Saliba etc?

Everything you said I disagreed with.
 
I think he should be showing a hell of a lot more ambition and playing better football. Your squad is full of quality players. Far better than any of the teams around you in the league right now. Which you wouldn’t know from watching you play.

Crystal Palace and Brighton showed what’s possible at Old Trafford this season when we play as badly as we did on Sunday. They completely dismantled us. Brighton really should have scored 6 or 7 goals. I think they set a PL record for the most times hitting woodwork. You’re not seriously telling me Arteta needs to upgrade his squad to show the same attacking ambition as Brighton and Palace?!

It’s also funny to hear Arsenal fans and journalists praising Arteta for making you “tough to beat”. Up until Pogba gifted you that penalty you’d lost 3 out of 4 league fixtures. Turns out scoring goals is an important part of winning football matches.
Palace had 25% possession and spent the whole game defending and launching counter attacks. Really good example of attacking ambition for Arteta to follow. I seem to remember that's how we beat City in the FA cup semi, and you also criticised that tactic. Seems like Arteta really can't win in your eyes, unless we're smashing teams 5-0, creating dozens of chances and not conceding any.

You didn't play Brighton at Old Trafford. But you're right, they should have scored a hell of a lot more. As it turns out, they didn't. They defended naively, conceded 3 goals and lost the game.

United are probably the best counter attacking team in the league, so I understand why you wanted us to play attacking, expansive football against you. No doubt you would have come on here after smashing us 4-0 on the counter and criticised Arteta for being naive.

And we are harder to beat. 2 of those 3 games are the hardest fixtures in the league. Even then we only lost very narrowly, and with better attackers we probably take more points from those games.
 
Just for posterity, these are your comments after the City FA cup semi final.

Nah, I disagree. They’ve won games they should expect to win. Then lost the lowest quality north London derby I’ve seen in years, as well as losing against a piss poor Brighton team.

Tonight was a freak result. 30% possession and 3 shots to 23. Not exactly laying down a marker.

Overall their results since the restart have been about par for where they are going to finish in the league, until tonight’s aberration. They’ve not been very impressive at all.

The defensive, counter attacking Palace vs United performance is a good example of how Arteta should play against a better team.

But the defensive, counter attacking Arsenal vs City performance is not a good example of how Arteta should play against a better team.

So, which is it?