Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Pogue Mahone said:
Yup. Although, unlike Havertz, Mount has previously produced one or two good seasons of PL football.
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True, but not in the role he's been bought for by you lot. Mount's hands down best performances for us were in Tuchel's 3-4-3 as one of the front three.

Mount did play as an attacking number 8 for us under Lampard but the other '8' next to him was always a player like Kante or Kovacic and not one nearly as attacking-minded as Bruno is. Then again our DM was Jorginho who was much worse defensively as Casemiro but still, having Mount and Bruno as your two most advanced midfielders was always going to be tricky to balance out. Hats off to ETH if he can pull it off and getting it to work eventually but early signs aren't all that great.
 
Looking at the positions Xhaka was taking up last season, Havertz isnt a bad signing imo. Pushing up and taking up the CBs to allow Martinelli/Jesus to roam about while keeping the game ticking over with smart plays.

Like Mount, he needs time to figure out his new role, especially combining with Martinelli to create openings on the left channel. Zinchenko coming back should help them out with the passing from midfield on that side of the pitch, Viera and him completely transformed the game for Arsenal. Well timed subs from Arteta.
 
maniak said:
feckin hell, a draw and people go crazy...
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Understandable. For supposed title challengers to City, dropping points this early to this type of team is a big deal. Even a record first half from you last season was just a minor annoyance for City. Drop points next week and your title prospects look very bleak less than 5 games into the season.
 
avgp_1 said:
Looking at the positions Xhaka was taking up last season, Havertz isnt a bad signing imo. Pushing up and taking up the CBs to allow Martinelli/Jesus to roam about while keeping the game ticking over with smart plays.

Like Mount, he needs time to figure out his new role, especially combining with Martinelli to create openings on the left channel. Zinchenko coming back should help them out with the passing from midfield on that side of the pitch, Viera and him completely transformed the game for Arsenal. Well timed subs from Arteta.
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I agree he's been a bit of a scapegoat but hasn't been bad. Just not as impressive as Rice and Timber (for all of 45min). Do think there's real potential in what Arteta is trying to do with him and being able to use him as LCM or forward will come in useful.
Also agree re Zinchenko - Havertz has had to play with Tomi and Kiwior who aren't great going forward. Now that Zinny is back and if Havertz keeps his place, I do expect to see more from him as Zinny can progress the ball in ways the others can't.
 
Not what I expected from Arsenal or arteta... guessing top4 might be doable for us just by virtue of the way some London teams are (not)performing.
green-bottle-wine-label-withfig.jpg
 
Rnd898 said:
True, but not in the role he's been bought for by you lot. Mount's hands down best performances for us were in Tuchel's 3-4-3 as one of the front three.

Mount did play as an attacking number 8 for us under Lampard but the other '8' next to him was always a player like Kante or Kovacic and not one nearly as attacking-minded as Bruno is. Then again our DM was Jorginho who was much worse defensively as Casemiro but still, having Mount and Bruno as your two most advanced midfielders was always going to be tricky to balance out. Hats off to ETH if he can pull it off and getting it to work eventually but early signs aren't all that great.
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By “early signs” you mean a grand total of two games? 50% as much data as the evidence that Caicedo makes Chelsea a worse team and a tiny fraction of the evidence that Mudryk is fecking useless.

Anyway. My point stands. Mount has proven himself as a competent PL footballer. Havertz has not.
 
Rnd898 said:
True, but not in the role he's been bought for by you lot. Mount's hands down best performances for us were in Tuchel's 3-4-3 as one of the front three.

Mount did play as an attacking number 8 for us under Lampard but the other '8' next to him was always a player like Kante or Kovacic and not one nearly as attacking-minded as Bruno is. Then again our DM was Jorginho who was much worse defensively as Casemiro but still, having Mount and Bruno as your two most advanced midfielders was always going to be tricky to balance out. Hats off to ETH if he can pull it off and getting it to work eventually but early signs aren't all that great.
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Mount has actually been fine in the 2 games he's played for us. Excellent off the ball, some progress on the ball will be needed but will come when he's on the same wavelength as the others (and when we actually have a functional frontline), but he's absolutely not a problem.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
By “early signs” you mean a grand total of two games? 50% as much data as the evidence that Caicedo makes Chelsea a worse team and a tiny fraction of the evidence that Mudryk is fecking useless.

Anyway. My point stands. Mount has proven himself as a competent PL footballer. Havertz has not.
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I'm under the impression Mount also looked like an awkward fit in pre-season too, for what it's worth.

And no, I'm not basing that opinion on those two games or the poor pre-season. I'm 99% basing it on the role he's clearly been bought to play for you lot and the fact I've watched Mount play football for 200+ games and don't think he's all too well suited for that. So like I said, credit to ETH if he can eventually pull off having Mount and Bruno in the same midfield together because to the best of my (admittedly limited) footballing knowledge I just don't see how a midfield with those two in it simultaneously can be balanced enough.

It's possible, maybe even likely, that Mount will grow into his new role because I think he's a great footballer but it's also possible he'll struggle with having to play a role he's not experienced in. What I don't get is why ETH wouldn't just sign a player who's already comfortable with the demands of that role to begin with? Just of the top of my head Mac Allister would have been a better fit and I think you could have pulled Kovacic too if you'd promised him a starter role rather than the rotation role he has at City. In isolation I rate Mount higher than both of those two but to fill a midfield that already has Casemiro and Bruno in it I think either of them be better fits than Mount.
 
Chelsea must be laughing their ass off, they sold two duds to united and arsenal who have made both teams look worse when they play and they pocketed 120 million
 
Rnd898 said:
I'm under the impression Mount also looked like an awkward fit in pre-season too, for what it's worth.

And no, I'm not basing that opinion on those two games or the poor pre-season. I'm 99% basing it on the role he's clearly been bought to play for you lot and the fact I've watched Mount play football for 200+ games and don't think he's all too well suited for that. So like I said, credit to ETH if he can eventually pull off having Mount and Bruno in the same midfield together because to the best of my (admittedly limited) footballing knowledge I just don't see how a midfield with those two in it simultaneously can be balanced enough.

It's possible, maybe even likely, that Mount will grow into his new role because I think he's a great footballer but it's also possible he'll struggle with having to play a role he's not experienced in. What I don't get is why ETH wouldn't just sign a player who's already comfortable with the demands of that role to begin with? Just of the top of my head Mac Allister would have been a better fit and I think you could have pulled Kovacic too if you'd promised him a starter role rather than the rotation role he has at City. In isolation I rate Mount higher than both of those two but to fill a midfield that already has Casemiro and Bruno in it I think either of them be better fits than Mount.
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I think its a given that given Utd and Arsenal are playing Mount and Havertz in a role that either they are not overly familiar with or will have to re-learn, or at the very least get used to their new clubs playing style and systems, that perhaps it should be a good few months from now we are judging these players.

From an Arsenal perspective, given how crucial Zinchenko and Jesus was to our build up on the left side last season, I think I'll wait until I see Havertz playing in a team with both of those mentioned before judging him too harshly.

I think Havertz has become the scapegoat of this reorganization Arteta had done, which I don't think he actually needed to do. I'm not a fan of the dropping of Gabriel and to invert from the right back position through Partey, so want to see if he continues to persist with it now Zinchenko is nearing full fitness. To me it all seems a bit too forced, trying to fit all of Rice, Partey and Havertz in from the off, when it should be a more natural evolution of moving away from Partey as the season went on.
 
Rnd898 said:
I'm under the impression Mount also looked like an awkward fit in pre-season too, for what it's worth.

And no, I'm not basing that opinion on those two games or the poor pre-season. I'm 99% basing it on the role he's clearly been bought to play for you lot and the fact I've watched Mount play football for 200+ games and don't think he's all too well suited for that. So like I said, credit to ETH if he can eventually pull off having Mount and Bruno in the same midfield together because to the best of my (admittedly limited) footballing knowledge I just don't see how a midfield with those two in it simultaneously can be balanced enough.

It's possible, maybe even likely, that Mount will grow into his new role because I think he's a great footballer but it's also possible he'll struggle with having to play a role he's not experienced in. What I don't get is why ETH wouldn't just sign a player who's already comfortable with the demands of that role to begin with? Just of the top of my head Mac Allister would have been a better fit and I think you could have pulled Kovacic too if you'd promised him a starter role rather than the rotation role he has at City. In isolation I rate Mount higher than both of those two but to fill a midfield that already has Casemiro and Bruno in it I think either of them be better fits than Mount.
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I completely agree with this. My heart says that Mount will eventually find himself and our midfield will be something akin to City’s Silva-Fernandinho-KdB midfield in 2017-18, but my head says that it’s just never going to work and we’ve either consigned ourselves to another 5 years of having an unbalanced midfield and away slaughterings by the best teams in the league, or having to spend £100m to fix the midfield in the next couple of summers.

Back to Arteta though, his team currently looks as unbalanced as ours. I’m hoping to see Havertz starting and Partey at RB, and Zinchenko and Gabriel on the bench again next week. I reckon that’ll give us multiple opportunities to hurt them.
 
Arsenal won't win anything with Ramsdale in net, he can do all the candid interviews he wants, but until he stops looking for trouble on the pitch he'll never be a good keeper.

Also, Chelsea fecking fleeced us and Arsenal this summer. Someone should go to prison.
 
GoonerBear said:
I think its a given that given Utd and Arsenal are playing Mount and Havertz in a role that either they are not overly familiar with or will have to re-learn, or at the very least get used to their new clubs playing style and systems, that perhaps it should be a good few months from now we are judging these players.

From an Arsenal perspective, given how crucial Zinchenko and Jesus was to our build up on the left side last season, I think I'll wait until I see Havertz playing in a team with both of those mentioned before judging him too harshly.

I think Havertz has become the scapegoat of this reorganization Arteta had done, which I don't think he actually needed to do. I'm not a fan of the dropping of Gabriel and to invert from the right back position through Partey, so want to see if he continues to persist with it now Zinchenko is nearing full fitness.
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Kai havertz will be good if you want to build a team around him and every thing to his strength. He can't fit in many systems and mostly laboured in many positions.

Arsenal players are very good with ball which havertz lacked. That's his main problem. Under slightest of pressure he mostly lose possession or rushed judgement and misplacing simple passes.

That's what we witnessed when he played for chelsea. May be arteta improve him and make him very good. But I doubt it.
 
MalaysianRed7 said:
Back to Arteta though, his team currently looks as unbalanced as ours. I’m hoping to see Havertz starting and Partey at RB, and Zinchenko and Gabriel on the bench again next week. I reckon that’ll give us multiple opportunities to hurt them.
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Think he'll keep the same formation as well and see how the game plays out, with Nketiah probably in for Trossard. Hope he goes back to the formation we played last season but he's stubborn.
 
"43 different structures in different phases of play" - it's a miracle if any of his players have a clue what they're supposed to be doing.
 
‘‘If Bukayo (Saka) is not there we're going to have something else.’’

Overplay him until that happens. Then shit the bed when it does.
 
As Man Utd fan, I should hate Pep and Klopp more because of the rivalry. Not sure why, I can't stand this cnut. Zero sportsmanship and complain about every referee decisions. Referees should give him yellow or red card for constant complain on the sideline.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
As Man Utd fan, I should hate Pep and Klopp more because of the rivalry. Not sure why, I can't stand this cnut. Zero sportsmanship and complain about every referee decisions. Referees should give him yellow or red card for constant complain on the sideline.
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At the very least they should start booking him every time he leaves the technical area.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
As Man Utd fan, I should hate Pep and Klopp more because of the rivalry. Not sure why, I can't stand this cnut. Zero sportsmanship and complain about every referee decisions. Referees should give him yellow or red card for constant complain on the sideline.
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And funnily he is not even as good as Pep or Klopp. Not even close to them. Absolute childish behavior.
 
AshRK said:
And funnily he is not even as good as Pep or Klopp. Not even close to them. Absolute childish behavior.
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Spot on.
I didn't think anything could make me detest the Gooners any more.
But arteta has certainly done that.
As you say, childish behaviour. But of course the Gooner fans will absolutely love it.
 
He's completely right. People will laugh and criticise him for being so emotional but the referees are a complete joke in England and something needs to be done.
 
"It's embarrassing" "it's a disgrace" then when asked he can't pinpoint why the goal shouldn't be allowed, just rambles on about nothing.
 
What's Carragher banging on about.... no one wants to see their own manager have a meltdown to that level :lol:

That's Rafafacts level calamity.
 
Zen said:
What's Carragher banging on about.... no one wants to see their own manager have a meltdown to that level :lol:

That's Rafafacts level calamity.
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It wouldn't have been so bad if he actually knew what he wanted the goal disallowed for. He was speaking like someone who hadn't actually seen anything happen but had been told what had happened off his mates down the pub.
 
Ultimately it’s deflection as he knows that at best they are going to be heroic losers once again this season. He spent loads, made a huge decision with the goalkeeper and has been there for years now.
 
One Night Only said:
"It's embarrassing" "it's a disgrace" then when asked he can't pinpoint why the goal shouldn't be allowed, just rambles on about nothing.
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Arteta is an utter twonk but I'd rather a manager have a go at the officials every now and again to try to create a siege mentality rather than sit and say nothing like Ten Hag. Ideally he'd do it when there was actually some dodgy refereeing though, it's not hard to find examples of it!
 
One Night Only said:
It wouldn't have been so bad if he actually knew what he wanted the goal disallowed for. He was speaking like someone who hadn't actually seen anything happen but had been told what had happened off his mates down the pub.
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Agreed really, but it can't be the ball over the line, because that's as tight as the Garnacho offside.... didn't see him moaning about that one? ETH did of course, but he didn't embarrass himself over it.
 
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