Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[GoonerBear]

We are one month of good results then take an absolute mauling to set us back. Still fear our board won't allow the full reign that Arteta has been given to make wholesale changes

Mate, thats the way it will go for you guys this season, purely because you don't have the players yet to play how ETH wants to play consistently yet.

However, the signs are good. To me, you seem where we were last season. Some Arsenal fans have short memories, after 12 games last season we were 5th, we had only scored 13 goals, had a -4 goal difference, largely thanks to a couple of early heavy defeats. Sound similar?

However a lot of Arsenal fans could see what we were trying to do, we just didn't have the proper personnel to do it. I see similar with ETH, and he's barely even 6 months into the job so to see those signs so early is a good sign. Let the guy get in his players over the next couple of windows and I'm sure you'll see the levels and consistency improve further.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Mate, thats the way it will go for you guys this season, purely because you don't have the players yet to play how ETH wants to play consistently yet.

However, the signs are good. To me, you seem where we were last season. Some Arsenal fans have short memories, after 12 games last season we were 5th, we had only scored 13 goals, had a -4 goal difference, largely thanks to a couple of early heavy defeats. Sound similar?

However a lot of Arsenal fans could see what we were trying to do, we just didn't have the proper personnel to do it. I see similar with ETH, and he's barely even 6 months into the job so to see those signs so early is a good sign. Let the guy get in his players over the next couple of windows and I'm sure you'll see the levels and consistency improve further.

Agree, there are several parallels. However, I think perhaps the biggest glaring difference - which is integral to Arsenal's development - is the backing of board. It's not just the manager. Since Arteta's appointment, it's been clear that he, Edu and the board share a clear, coherent vision for the club. They have a specific profile of players they want. I'm not sure the same can be said of United's board and its relationship/understanding with EtH, though obviously the board has spent money. At least that's what I hear from my United friends.

 

[GoonerBear]

Agree, there are several parallels. However, I think perhaps the biggest glaring difference - which is integral to Arsenal's development - is the backing of board. It's not just the manager. Since Arteta's appointment, it's been clear that he, Edu and the board share a clear, coherent vision for the club. They have a specific profile of players they want. I'm not sure the same can be said of United's board and its relationship/understanding with EtH, though obviously the board has spent money. At least that's what I hear from my United friends.

It wasn't quite clear our strategy our first window either. We signed Gabriel (Martinez), Partey (Casimero) and a free transfer punt on Willian (Eriksen). So the parallels are definitely there. Utd of course have also spent big on Antony whereas we had to wait until the following summer to spend big but did so on several players.

I'm sure ETH himself will have a clear vision, as long as the board don't interfere to much and give him the funds to invest in the players he wants then I'm sure they'll continue to evolve well.

 

[croadyman]

Agree, there are several parallels. However, I think perhaps the biggest glaring difference - which is integral to Arsenal's development - is the backing of board. It's not just the manager. Since Arteta's appointment, it's been clear that he, Edu and the board share a clear, coherent vision for the club. They have a specific profile of players they want. I'm not sure the same can be said of United's board and its relationship/understanding with EtH, though obviously the board has spent money. At least that's what I hear from my United friends.

Yeah your second paragraph is my fears too,let's just say it's not been a good last 24 hours for the club with defeat to Villa, drawing Barca in Europa playoff and scousers put up for sale to boot.

 

[croadyman]

You're in a much better starting position than we were though. From the little I've watched of United, Ten Hag has brought some of his tactics in place earlier than Arteta did. Perhaps because Arteta didn't think the players he initially inherited could employ the tactics needed. So initially we looked a bit like a Mourinho side and then we became a side overlapping on the left flank to get the best out of our best player in Auba while defending as a parked bus. Where as Ten Hag has implemented possession football, a high line and passing in triangles from the start. The challenge then is being able to stop counter attacks in such a system. It's something that currently hurts this United team at times and it often hurt many Wenger possession sides. Currently Arteta has a system to stop counter attacks, not infallible as United showed. But essentially the whole team is tasked on winning the ball back as quickly as possible or carrying out a tactical foul to stop the counter attack. You should be a much better pressing side without Ronaldo and getting in a suitable replacement. It's also pretty easy to upgrade the squad with 1 or 2 quality midfielders

One mistake I think you are making is not bringing in a director of football. Ten Hag didn't make Ajax's signings, Marc Overmars did as Director of Football. Now you have Ten Hag primarily targeting former players and 30yo Real Madrid players. You've got some good players but it looks like you haven't got the best scouting and recruitment plan in place. Caseimiro is a really good player right now. But will he be a really good player in 3 seasons time when he's 33? I don't know. If I was a United I'd hope you didn't sign Gakpo as I think that would be a mistake.

Who should we sign instead of Gakpo because let's face it Ronaldo needs booting in January before top 4 out of reach

 

[croadyman]

Mate, thats the way it will go for you guys this season, purely because you don't have the players yet to play how ETH wants to play consistently yet.

However, the signs are good. To me, you seem where we were last season. Some Arsenal fans have short memories, after 12 games last season we were 5th, we had only scored 13 goals, had a -4 goal difference, largely thanks to a couple of early heavy defeats. Sound similar?

However a lot of Arsenal fans could see what we were trying to do, we just didn't have the proper personnel to do it. I see similar with ETH, and he's barely even 6 months into the job so to see those signs so early is a good sign. Let the guy get in his players over the next couple of windows and I'm sure you'll see the levels and consistency improve further.

Yeah complete lack of goals and being in the minus certainly sounds very familiar indeed,at least when you lost to Brentford away it wasn't 4

 

[RacingClub]

And if our wins against Liverpool and Spurs don't count due to their bad form, do yours??

I would argue that Arsenals win over Liverpool was more impressive due to the fact that Uniteds win occured when Thiago/ Jota/ Matip/ Konate were all injured and Nunez was suspended.

United beat a Liverpool team that started with Elliot and Milner in the midfield with Gomez in defence (with no attacking options on the bench) so I'd say that was a better time to play them than when Arsenal did (Thiago/Jota/ Nunez/ Matip starting with a good bench).

It could be argued that Spurs had a better 11 vs Arsenal (Richarlison started and was injured by the time the United game came around) too but they did get a red in that game.

Liverpool were very lucky to face Spurs yesterday (injuries and fatigue after away trip to Marseille) IMO.

 

[Daydreamer]

I think we may be overthinking the fixture stuff, just a tad.

• First it was we’ve beat virtually everyone… but they were easy teams.
• Then it was we’ve beat harder teams… but at home.
• Now it’s that we’ve beaten harder teams away… but at a good time to play them.

A third of the season and the entire group stage of European competition has been played. Surely at some point we have to accept that maybe the tables don’t look the way they do because of the fixture list.

 

[Daydreamer]

That’s not to say Arsenal are gonna go the distance. But whether we do or we don’t, the precise order in which we played our games is going to be an incredibly minor factor.

 

[GoonerGirly]

It wasn't quite clear our strategy our first window either. We signed Gabriel (Martinez), Partey (Casimero) and a free transfer punt on Willian (Eriksen). So the parallels are definitely there. Utd of course have also spent big on Antony whereas we had to wait until the following summer to spend big but did so on several players.

I'm sure ETH himself will have a clear vision, as long as the board don't interfere to much and give him the funds to invest in the players he wants then I'm sure they'll continue to evolve well.

I think the main difference is though that Arsenal signed Arteta knowing he was building a 'project' and were willing to give him time. I think that was pretty clear from the beginning. I don't think ETH (or Ole) are/were 'project managers' in the same way. But might be wrong.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I think the main difference is though that Arsenal signed Arteta knowing he was building a 'project' and were willing to give him time. I think that was pretty clear from the beginning. I don't think ETH (or Ole) are/were 'project managers' in the same way. But might be wrong.

ETH absolutely is. He's spoken about the "process" many times, just as Arteta used to when he was getting crap results.

 

[GoonerGirly]

ETH absolutely is. He's spoken about the "process" many times, just as Arteta used to when he was getting crap results.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Obviously too soon to judge him one way or another.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

ETH absolutely is. He's spoken about the "process" many times, just as Arteta used to when he was getting crap results.

He should absolutely be given time IMO. Hopefully for United's sake ETH has sold his vision to the Glazers and can be backed accordingly.

I think United are in a similar position to us two or so seasons ago, where you have too many players that simply aren't good enough - AWB, Lindelof, McTominay and DVDB (Kolasinac, Willian, Mustafi, Chambers).

And then you have the middling squad players that need to be less reliant on the likes of - Maguire, Fred, Dalot, Shaw, Martial and CR7 (Bellerin, Luiz, Sokratis, Willock, Lacazette, etc) need to have their roles reduced or replaced.

Rashford and Sancho need to pull their fingers out too.

 

[utdalltheway]

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Obviously too soon to judge him one way or another.

Mods, please check out this poster for fraud. There’s no way it’s a girl. The admission that they were wrong is proof enough!

 

[GoonerBear]

I think the main difference is though that Arsenal signed Arteta knowing he was building a 'project' and were willing to give him time. I think that was pretty clear from the beginning. I don't think ETH (or Ole) are/were 'project managers' in the same way. But might be wrong.

I think the main difference is that the Arsenal board were having to use blind faith. This was Artetas first managerial position, he had no body of work to fall back on, so they had to show real patience and extreme faith in times that were really difficult, when sometimes it wasn't even evident what style of play we were looking to implement, never mind get results.

ETH at least has a good volume of work behind him, where you can see how he likes his team's to play, and how he has had success getting them to play that way. Now that doesn't necessarily translate to success at Utd for a variety of reasons, but hopefully it will allow him the patience from the Utd board and fans to make a real proper fist of it.

 

[RunTheTrap]

You guys have really forgot the Arsenal boom busy cycle? Arsenal are always going to win the league this year as their fan base and the media would have you believe when they are top of the league in the early months of the season. Cometh January and the fixtures pile up, in the cold wet miserable weather, and by the End of February, flaky Arsenal are out of contention for every honour except scrapping for top 4.

The boom bust cycle is more of a Wenger thing. Things have changed. Arsenal are more willing to spend money, and Arteta isn’t as tactically naive as Wenger was. I agree on the squad depth, but I think we will rectify that in the transfer window.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

I think the main difference is that the Arsenal board were having to use blind faith. This was Artetas first managerial position, he had no body of work to fall back on, so they had to show real patience and extreme faith in times that were really difficult, when sometimes it wasn't even evident what style of play we were looking to implement, never mind get results.

I do not want to discuss any Man Utd matter in the Arteta or Arsenal thread. However, i don't think Arsenal board has blind faith on Arteta. It is obviously since day one the board is convinced Arteta is the right person for the job and they backed him to no end (in terms of the results in the past 3 seasons, and the heavy investment to overhaul the team, get rid of all the old players not suited to his style including ozil, and Aubameyang). Arteta is able to convince them he is the best person for the job since day one. There are more than one time Josh and Edu described Arteta is tactically brilliant in the past, and Xhaka said Arteta is a freak in terms of tactics, details, and instruction to players. Josh said it himself there is not a single moment Arteta's job is under threat in the past 3 seasons.

 

[RacingClub]

Exceeding expectations at the moment.

 

[Shark]

The boom bust cycle is more of a Wenger thing. Things have changed. Arsenal are more willing to spend money, and Arteta isn’t as tactically naive as Wenger was. I agree on the squad depth, but I think we will rectify that in the transfer window.

Do you to think you'll win the league?

 

[Donaldo]

Ok so that should seal top 6.

 

[Lash]

There's no doubt he's forged a great team and a spirit, but I'm still not convinced about him. I feel like at the moment, the chances his side's give up go completely unpunished.

When we played them, we proved that it's not that hard to take the chances they can concede, but for example today, zinchenko can fall over and let the winger walk into the box and the lad fecking clears it back towards their own half.

I think they'll certainly around the top of the chasing pack come the end of the season, but I am not convinced they're winning the league.

 

[adexkola]

I think the main difference is that the Arsenal board were having to use blind faith. This was Artetas first managerial position, he had no body of work to fall back on, so they had to show real patience and extreme faith in times that were really difficult, when sometimes it wasn't even evident what style of play we were looking to implement, never mind get results.

ETH at least has a good volume of work behind him, where you can see how he likes his team's to play, and how he has had success getting them to play that way. Now that doesn't necessarily translate to success at Utd for a variety of reasons, but hopefully it will allow him the patience from the Utd board and fans to make a real proper fist of it.

The board was and is privy to way more information behind the scenes and on the pitch than the average fan can access. I don't think the board continuing with Arteta was blind faith, it was more them seeing significant factors (again, unknown to fans) that mitigated the final table finishes. You don't do things wrong for 3 seasons then luck into a title race.

 

[DJ_21]

Is this gonna be a one of season for arsenal or are they back and challenging? If so then next season will be even tougher, especially when Newcastle start buying properly, Liverpool will be out of there bad spell, Chelsea can’t get any worse.

 

[Lash]

Is this gonna be a one of season for arsenal or are they back and challenging? If so then next season will be even tougher, especially when Newcastle start buying properly, Liverpool will be out of there bad spell, Chelsea can’t get any worse.

Newcastle have started buying properly FYI. Just because their 70m euro striker is injured and their best players performing were already there, doesn't mean they haven't spent a shit tonne of Saudi cash already.

 

[kaku06]

Every week I hope Arsenal lose and every week I see this Lord larys looking cnut celebrating on the touchline. Somebody show their feet to stop him winning.

 

[Ish]

Every week I hope Arsenal lose and every week I see this Lord larys looking cnut celebrating on the touchline. Somebody show their feet to stop him winning.

 

[GoonerInPeace]

Arteta is one of the best young manager in the world. I dont think there is a better manager than him under 50. What's more telling is Arteta is only 40.

Rival fans like to meme him and not rate him. But honestly how much longer can you deny his quality?

 

[DJ_21]

Newcastle have started buying properly FYI. Just because their 70m euro striker is injured and their best players performing were already there, doesn't mean they haven't spent a shit tonne of Saudi cash already.

They’ve bought isak and botman? Hardly a spending spree

 

[GoonerInPeace]

The boom bust cycle is more of a Wenger thing. Things have changed. Arsenal are more willing to spend money, and Arteta isn’t as tactically naive as Wenger was. I agree on the squad depth, but I think we will rectify that in the transfer window.

So True. The culture with the fans is diffrent. Whenver we would concede under Wenger the nervous energy would kick in, Wenger would be on the touchline argueing with the 4th official. But these days the fans trust the team and Arteta, and Arteta deals witht he players in game in a way Wenger never used to.

Arteta has transformed the club. I know its a big statement, but you need to be an Arsenal fan to truly understand

 

[Lash]

They’ve bought isak and botman? Hardly a spending spree

Don't forget the casual 100m in January, so nearly 200m in total.

 

[Daydreamer]

Arteta is one of the best young manager in the world. I dont think there is a better manager than him under 50. What's more telling is Arteta is only 40.

Rival fans like to meme him and not rate him. But honestly how much longer can you deny his quality?

Bruv, I feel like every morning you wake up and choose violence. Chill, my man. Let’s at least qualify for the CL before proclaiming him the best young Manager in the world.

And this is coming from a huge fan of the man.

 

[Dominos]

There's no doubt he's forged a great team and a spirit, but I'm still not convinced about him. I feel like at the moment, the chances his side's give up go completely unpunished.

When we played them, we proved that it's not that hard to take the chances they can concede, but for example today, zinchenko can fall over and let the winger walk into the box and the lad fecking clears it back towards their own half.

I think they'll certainly around the top of the chasing pack come the end of the season, but I am not convinced they're winning the league.

They have the best xGA in the league.

They've actually now overtaken City in xPTS.

I was hoping they'd get dragged back into top 4 race but they're nailed on for top 2 unless they have severe prolonged injury crisis.

 

[bond19821982]

They’ve bought isak and botman? Hardly a spending spree

What?

 

[DJ_21]

Don't forget the casual 100m in January, so nearly 200m in total.

They’ve spent like 136m. This season. We’ve spent like 240. Yet there 3rd and we’re 5th.

 

[RedC]

Arteta is one of the best young manager in the world. I dont think there is a better manager than him under 50. What's more telling is Arteta is only 40.

Rival fans like to meme him and not rate him. But honestly how much longer can you deny his quality?

Why are Arsenal fans like this

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Why are Arsenal fans like this

He is entitled to his own opinion. He doesn't need anyone or you to agree with him. You are welcome to write another 300 pages argue with him. We had 269 pages already.

 

[Lost bear]

Agree, there are several parallels. However, I think perhaps the biggest glaring difference - which is integral to Arsenal's development - is the backing of board. It's not just the manager. Since Arteta's appointment, it's been clear that he, Edu and the board share a clear, coherent vision for the club. They have a specific profile of players they want. I'm not sure the same can be said of United's board and its relationship/understanding with EtH, though obviously the board has spent money. At least that's what I hear from my United friends.

Two very reasonable Arsenal fans. I had feared these were an extinct species. The main thrust (if I may use such a term in connection with the Arse) of your argument I entirely agree with. ETH is a guy with a project, an exciting one I believe, and it will maybe take a couple of seasons and transfer windows to bear fruit.

I have been a little unkind to your fellow fans, but this is a reminder not to generalise! I cover myself with sack cloth and ashes.

 

[GoonerInPeace]

Why are Arsenal fans like this

Which manager under 50 looks better than Arteta?

 

[Edwards6]

Arteta is one of the best young manager in the world. I dont think there is a better manager than him under 50. What's more telling is Arteta is only 40.

Rival fans like to meme him and not rate him. But honestly how much longer can you deny his quality?

Not just rival fans, it was Arsenal fans calling for him to be sacked just a few months ago and now he's suddenly the best young manager in the world?

 

[GoonerInPeace]

Not just rival fans, it was Arsenal fans calling for him to be sacked just a few months ago and now he's suddenly the best young manager in the world?

Because he has turned it around in a way in which no one believed.

He is the one of the top managers in the world. Linked with Barcelona and PSG in the past month. Good luck to anyone wanting to lure Super Mik away from Arsenal. I think ive seen a few stories suggesting he is the number 1 target for City should Pep leave.