Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Xaviesta]

I was at the game tonight as my mate is a season ticket holder at Hibs. Won’t give a match report but will try to sum it up as briefly as possible as I can.

Arsenal had a ton of possession as you expected but very rarely did they put the Hibs back line under pressure. A lot of sideway, backward passes and not enough forward in behind passes. The majority of their chances came through sloppy mistakes. Eddie Nketiah missing an absolute 1v1 sitter after Paul Hamlin was caught dwelling on the ball. Even I could have at least worked the keeper with which really says something about that sitter The penalty they got in the 2nd half was as soft as you’d ever see and justice was done when young teenager Kevin Dabrowski (who was making his 1st Hibs senior appearance) denied Pepe from the spot with a superb low save to his left. Chants of “what a waste of money” being aired at Pepe by the Hibs fans after that were absolutely brilliant . Even our own manager Jack Ross turned around and gave a small, sly smile to the crowd. In fact some of the chants aired at some of the Arsenal players tonight were brilliant particularly my favourite one of the night which did air a chuckle across the 2,000 crowd at Easter Road being aimed at Aubameyang - “You’re just a shit Kevin Nisbet”, when he had a chance to open the scoring in the 1st half but denied by a great block by either Ryan Porteous or Paul McGinn.

Delighted for my local team Hibs. Stood strong, didn’t shirk away from the challenges despite it being friendly and really gave a very account of themselves as we get set for our first competitive game of the season in the Europa Conference League next Thursday.

Arsenal, albeit their 1st pre-season fixture just looked like the Arsenal team I was watching last season. Unimpressive and a manger that looks more suited to the “P.E. teacher” label that has been brandished at Ole.

MOTM for me was Hibs’ Lewis Stevenson. 1st half didn’t give Willian a sniff and then Pepe got the same treatment. Terrific performance by the wee Hibs legend The stand-out player for Arsenal for me was definitely Emile Smith-Rowe. Scored a good goal and made a positive impact from the bench when he replaced the lacklustre Ainsley Maitland-Niles. Just a pity the teammates around him - the likes of Pepe, Partey, Laccazette all looked very underwhelming.

So even though it's pre-season, it was basically a typical Arsenal performance under Arteta .

 

[gorky_utd]

I was at the game tonight as my mate is a season ticket holder at Hibs. Won’t give a match report but will try to sum it up as briefly as possible as I can.

Arsenal had a ton of possession as you expected but very rarely did they put the Hibs back line under pressure. A lot of sideway, backward passes and not enough forward in behind passes. The majority of their chances came through sloppy mistakes. Eddie Nketiah missing an absolute 1v1 sitter after Paul Hamlin was caught dwelling on the ball. Even I could have at least worked the keeper with which really says something about that sitter The penalty they got in the 2nd half was as soft as you’d ever see and justice was done when young teenager Kevin Dabrowski (who was making his 1st Hibs senior appearance) denied Pepe from the spot with a superb low save to his left. Chants of “what a waste of money” being aired at Pepe by the Hibs fans after that were absolutely brilliant . Even our own manager Jack Ross turned around and gave a small, sly smile to the crowd. In fact some of the chants aired at some of the Arsenal players tonight were brilliant particularly my favourite one of the night which did air a chuckle across the 2,000 crowd at Easter Road being aimed at Aubameyang - “You’re just a shit Kevin Nisbet”, when he had a chance to open the scoring in the 1st half but denied by a great block by either Ryan Porteous or Paul McGinn.

Delighted for my local team Hibs. Stood strong, didn’t shirk away from the challenges despite it being friendly and really gave a very account of themselves as we get set for our first competitive game of the season in the Europa Conference League next Thursday.

Arsenal, albeit their 1st pre-season fixture just looked like the Arsenal team I was watching last season. Unimpressive and a manger that looks more suited to the “P.E. teacher” label that has been brandished at Ole.

MOTM for me was Hibs’ Lewis Stevenson. 1st half didn’t give Willian a sniff and then Pepe got the same treatment. Terrific performance by the wee Hibs legend The stand-out player for Arsenal for me was definitely Emile Smith-Rowe. Scored a good goal and made a positive impact from the bench when he replaced the lacklustre Ainsley Maitland-Niles. Just a pity the teammates around him - the likes of Pepe, Partey, Laccazette all looked very underwhelming.

Was Arsenal a good enough practice opponent since they are not even a uefa conference team?

 

[phonics_tid]

I was at the game tonight as my mate is a season ticket holder at Hibs. Won’t give a match report but will try to sum it up as briefly as possible as I can.

Arsenal had a ton of possession as you expected but very rarely did they put the Hibs back line under pressure. A lot of sideway, backward passes and not enough forward in behind passes. The majority of their chances came through sloppy mistakes. Eddie Nketiah missing an absolute 1v1 sitter after Paul Hamlin was caught dwelling on the ball. Even I could have at least worked the keeper with which really says something about that sitter The penalty they got in the 2nd half was as soft as you’d ever see and justice was done when young teenager Kevin Dabrowski (who was making his 1st Hibs senior appearance) denied Pepe from the spot with a superb low save to his left. Chants of “what a waste of money” being aired at Pepe by the Hibs fans after that were absolutely brilliant . Even our own manager Jack Ross turned around and gave a small, sly smile to the crowd. In fact some of the chants aired at some of the Arsenal players tonight were brilliant particularly my favourite one of the night which did air a chuckle across the 2,000 crowd at Easter Road being aimed at Aubameyang - “You’re just a shit Kevin Nisbet”, when he had a chance to open the scoring in the 1st half but denied by a great block by either Ryan Porteous or Paul McGinn.

Delighted for my local team Hibs. Stood strong, didn’t shirk away from the challenges despite it being friendly and really gave a very account of themselves as we get set for our first competitive game of the season in the Europa Conference League next Thursday.

Arsenal, albeit their 1st pre-season fixture just looked like the Arsenal team I was watching last season. Unimpressive and a manger that looks more suited to the “P.E. teacher” label that has been brandished at Ole.

MOTM for me was Hibs’ Lewis Stevenson. 1st half didn’t give Willian a sniff and then Pepe got the same treatment. Terrific performance by the wee Hibs legend The stand-out player for Arsenal for me was definitely Emile Smith-Rowe. Scored a good goal and made a positive impact from the bench when he replaced the lacklustre Ainsley Maitland-Niles. Just a pity the teammates around him - the likes of Pepe, Partey, Laccazette all looked very underwhelming.

Dabrowski played for my local team (Cowdenbeath) a couple of seasons back and he looked a decent keeper. Great to hear he’s saving penalties from a £70m player

 

[Dancfc]

Really. There is advantage of less travel players having real rest in between games. Most midtable teams against teams played in Europe have that advantage.

Leeds able to play their pressing game match after match with high energy came from that. It's not myth but of course arsenal need to use those advantage. Only city will be able to change whole 11 and yet produce results not even chelsea or man utd in my opinion.

City able to win league cups because of whole squad quality but all other teams always give up on that opportunity.The advantage is there for arsenal coming season to stack up points against mid lower table teams it's not myth. But can they take of those advantage is another thing though.

How often has it really worked out on paper? It 'worked' for us because we already had a title winning team that finished 10th due to a lot of fluke/unprecedented circumstances.

United under LVG and Liverpool under Kenny were suppose to massively benefit from no European football and it never happened, 99% of the time the reason teams finish outside the European places is because they ain't very good and they need a lot more than free midweeks to fix that.

 

[anant]

How often has it really worked out on paper? It 'worked' for us because we already had a title winning team that finished 10th due to a lot of fluke/unprecedented circumstances.

United under LVG and Liverpool under Kenny were suppose to massively benefit from no European football and it never happened, 99% of the time the reason teams finish outside the European places is because they ain't very good and they need a lot more than free midweeks to fix that.

I think his point is around finishing in top 4 - LVG managed it in Moyes season and Klopp managed to finish in top 4 after a season of no European football.

However, I don't agree with his point that it serves as some sort of an advantage, especially when there have been no changes to backroom staff or no major spending. We changed our manager, spent 150 odd million and bought Shaw, Herrera, ADM, Falcao (who admittedly flopped) on a side that had a lot of players who had won the league 2 seasons earlier. Similarly, Pool spent some money (bought Mane I believe) and they got got a full season under Klopp when they turned it around.

With the current Arsenal team, you struggle to name players who can become genuine class players barring Saka and Tierney(injuries permitting). Martinelli has had injury problems, ESR is decent but no one knows how far can he go. Gabriel had an unconvincing season, same for Partey who is in his peak years. They don't have a lot of depth as is. Pepe seems to be just an ok player, who'd blow hot and cold.

 

[Adisa]

Think it will be their second straight season without qualifying for European football. One of the arguments for sacking Wenger was that things couldn't get worse for them(I agreed), how wrong were we?

 

[Abraxas]

Emery finished 5th and made europa final and that was seen as big underachievement in 18/19.

Only thing going for Arsenal is I do think they have a decent collection of young players now to attempt to build round. Core of Saka, Tierney, Smith Rowe (although we keep bidding for him so must be something up in the contract negotations), Martinelli isn't that bad potentially although a couple of them miss chunks of season through injury and Saka might be impacted by his penalty miss. They have much bigger problem with how ineffective the senior players are. I see in tonight's friendly Willian, Auba and Kolasanic (who I thought had been sold) all started. Xhaka still hasn't gone and I thought Lacazette only had one year left so surely needs to be moved on for 15m or so rather than just leave on free transfer?

That's where it's a bit odd, players coming up to 30 on massive long term deals and many of them are key parts of the team still. They also need a big season from Thomas Partey who looked an excellent signing on paper but aside from odd game largely underwhelmed. Seems they're targeting an Anderlecht kid to replace Xhaka?

I would guess the problem is they may want rid of some of these older, underperforming stars but inevitably they are on good money and potentially hard to shift so it's not just about Arteta clinging on to them. Even if you do shift them you have to be sure you can replace them with relatively experienced replacements that are of the required quality too, so that depends both on what can be recouped from sales and also transfer budgets.

My feeling is there just hasn't been all that much to work with financially. The net spend over the past few years is relatively low considering the squad quality is a long way off. That's what random loan signings and free transfers indicate to me, that's a manager working to a budget not necessarily towards what he'd want in an ideal world.

There is no doubt his results look poor next to Emery but at this point we do know Emery is a tactically astute manager if a little dour. Arteta was always going to be a work in progress and the squad could also be described as such. They surely knew that, really. I think all things considered he's not been good but he's not exactly been put in a position to shine either. If you look at Ole next season - he simply has to get a good result, a very incremental progression is less likely to be seen as a success because if we presume a few more signings are to arrive he's been put in a good position. That's quite different from Arteta.

 

[GoonerBear]

I think his point is around finishing in top 4 - LVG managed it in Moyes season and Klopp managed to finish in top 4 after a season of no European football.

However, I don't agree with his point that it serves as some sort of an advantage, especially when there have been no changes to backroom staff or no major spending. We changed our manager, spent 150 odd million and bought Shaw, Herrera, ADM, Falcao (who admittedly flopped) on a side that had a lot of players who had won the league 2 seasons earlier. Similarly, Pool spent some money (bought Mane I believe) and they got got a full season under Klopp when they turned it around.

With the current Arsenal team, you struggle to name players who can become genuine class players barring Saka and Tierney(injuries permitting). Martinelli has had injury problems, ESR is decent but no one knows how far can he go. Gabriel had an unconvincing season, same for Partey who is in his peak years. They don't have a lot of depth as is. Pepe seems to be just an ok player, who'd blow hot and cold.

Is there much point in trying to guess before the transfer window shuts? As I said previously, we could have 3 or 4 first team players still to come in, difficult to judge anyone as so much can happen in the next month or so.

 

[anant]

Is there much point in trying to guess before the transfer window shuts? As I said previously, we could have 3 or 4 first team players still to come in, difficult to judge anyone as so much can happen in the next month or so.

Sure. But do you really see yourself investing enough to end up in top 4? From the outside, you'd need to invest closer to 150-170m to even mount a top 4 challenge (assuming no free transfers) and this is assuming all your transfers hit the ground running from the 1st day

 

[anant]

Think it will be their second straight season without qualifying for European football. One of the arguments for sacking Wenger was that things couldn't get worse for them(I agreed), how wrong were we?

I'm not surprised at all if I'm being honest. What Wenger was doing at Arsenal was extraordinary with that side and a modest budget. Towards the end of is tenure, the gap in investment in previous years started to show up (others were investing consistently in the side, whereas Arsenal had started flexing their muscles to a certain degree in 2013 with Ozil's signing) and things became sour because people thought they should be doing better. When you look at the side, they were achieving that with people like Holding, Mustafi, Iwobi and the likes - none of whom are good enough for a side where the fans are hoping to win the title

 

[RUCK4444]

Think it will be their second straight season without qualifying for European football. One of the arguments for sacking Wenger was that things couldn't get worse for them(I agreed), how wrong were we?

I thought they were mental to get rid of Wenger, they’ve never had the budget for alternative managers to rebuild.

Should have stuck with Mr Burns and at least tried to stay in the hunt for top four.

 

[Lay]

They’re getting relegated

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I thought they were mental to get rid of Wenger, they’ve never had the budget for alternative managers to rebuild.

Should have stuck with Mr Burns and at least tried to stay in the hunt for top four.

The fans expected the grass to be greener without Wenger. They got more than they bargained for and I for one am glad they are far worse now, after the way a lot of their fans treated Wenger towards the end of his tenure.

 

[GoonerBear]

Sure. But do you really see yourself investing enough to end up in top 4? From the outside, you'd need to invest closer to 150-170m to even mount a top 4 challenge (assuming no free transfers) and this is assuming all your transfers hit the ground running from the 1st day

To be honest with the strategy & who we are being linked with, we'll struggle for top 4 regardless, as the current top 4 are too far in front currently.

In terms of strategy, it seems like we are aiming to build a younger core, linked to guys like White, Neves, Maddison, Auoar etc. That's why I'm interested to see who we can get over the line.

 

[RUCK4444]

The fans expected the grass to be greener without Wenger. They got more than they bargained for and I for one am glad they are far worse now, after the way a lot of their fans treated Wenger towards the end of his tenure.

Yeah totally agree. Absolutely embarrassed themselves towards the end.

 

[Rajiztar]

How often has it really worked out on paper? It 'worked' for us because we already had a title winning team that finished 10th due to a lot of fluke/unprecedented circumstances.

United under LVG and Liverpool under Kenny were suppose to massively benefit from no European football and it never happened, 99% of the time the reason teams finish outside the European places is because they ain't very good and they need a lot more than free midweeks to fix that.

I said they will have chance. Leicester won the title in Europe less season too. Yes that's anomaly not normal though. But there is a chance for arsenal and Arteta to get maximum points against lower mid table teams. If they maximise that point tally they will be in a shout to get in top 4 at the end.

West ham and Moyes too pushed up a lot last season. Certainly advantage is there. You can't simply put it's a myth though.

 

[anant]

To be honest with the strategy & who we are being linked with, we'll struggle for top 4 regardless, as the current top 4 are too far in front currently.

In terms of strategy, it seems like we are aiming to build a younger core, linked to guys like White, Neves, Maddison, Auoar etc. That's why I'm interested to see who we can get over the line.

I think you shouldn't have bought in Willian. And I genuinely feel loaning in younger players (especially without an option to buy) cannot take you forward as it's a lose lose for you.

The players you're getting linked with - White, Maddison, Aouor, Neves are all decent-good players. However, Aouor apart (who I don't think will want to join you) none of them would take you up by 2 levels (which you desperately need). Neves' career has stalled and while he's still a decent DM, he isn't someone you want to take you up to top 4 (If your side was already top 4 quality, I might have said differently). Maddison - I just don't rate him; he's a long shot merchant. White is an interesting player and I rate him pretty highly - however 50m for him is way too steep in any windo let alone a COVID affected window

 

[GoonerBear]

I think you shouldn't have bought in Willian. And I genuinely feel loaning in younger players (especially without an option to buy) cannot take you forward as it's a lose lose for you.

The players you're getting linked with - White, Maddison, Aouor, Neves are all decent-good players. However, Aouor apart (who I don't think will want to join you) none of them would take you up by 2 levels (which you desperately need). Neves' career has stalled and while he's still a decent DM, he isn't someone you want to take you up to top 4 (If your side was already top 4 quality, I might have said differently). Maddison - I just don't rate him; he's a long shot merchant. White is an interesting player and I rate him pretty highly - however 50m for him is way too steep in any windo let alone a COVID affected window

I think we are looking to employ a similar strategy to what Liverpool did under Klopp at first, & even Utd did at the start under Ole. Buy some of the better young players from within the league, players that are league ready, that might not be the most exotic of names, but that will help make up a solid core to build from. Liverpool did it with the likes of Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Milner, Ole decided to do it with the likes of Maguire, Wan Bissaka & Dan James. Its a good way to get a younger solid base for your squad, too add wto what you already have, & promote a couple of quality youngsters. Then you can aim to add proper quality, like Van Dijk, & Allison, or Sancho & Varane, with the aim of taking you on to the next level again.

 

[Hansi Fick]

I think we are looking to employ a similar strategy to what Liverpool did under Klopp at first, & even Utd did at the start under Ole. Buy some of the better young players from within the league, players that are league ready, that might not be the most exotic of names, but that will help make up a solid core to build from. Liverpool did it with the likes of Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Milner, Ole decided to do it with the likes of Maguire, Wan Bissaka & Dan James. Its a good way to get a younger solid base for your squad, too add wto what you already have, & promote a couple of quality youngsters. Then you can aim to add proper quality, like Van Dijk, & Allison, or Sancho & Varane, with the aim of taking you on to the next level again.

It will all be for nothing if you don't get a proper manager in. It's a waste of a summer. It will be a waste of a season.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Thanks a lot mate. Good write-up.

Cheers bud.

So even though it's pre-season, it was basically a typical Arsenal performance under Arteta .

Pretty much. Usually in pre-season there are aspects that you can take away from pre-season games regarding passages of play both on and off the ball, set pieces and a style of play that looks encouraging and something to maybe build on ahead of new season. You know trying something new. I didn’t see much of or in fact hardly any of that yesterday evening from this Arsenal team. It was as you said, a typical Arsenal performance under Arteta which is worrying because Hibs are practically a lower championship/upper League 1 side if they were in England

Was Arsenal a good enough practice opponent since they are not even a uefa conference team?

Haha, well we won’t be coming up against premier league opposition week in, week out with players that cost more than what our whole club is worth It was a good game for our lads.

Dabrowski played for my local team (Cowdenbeath) a couple of seasons back and he looked a decent keeper. Great to hear he’s saving penalties from a £70m player

First time I had seen him play and he done really well. Commanded his area, regularly communicating with his backline and pulled off 1-2 good saves although, as already mentioned, majority of Arsenal’s chances came through lapses in concentration from our own players but Kevin was there to thwart them. Good, solid senior debut although I think he will be 2nd choice to Matt Macey this season.

 

[GoonerBear]

It will all be for nothing if you don't get a proper manager in. It's a waste of a summer. It will be a waste of a season.

We have this conversation quite a lot, & he's not going anywhere just now so yeah, it might be all for nothing, just need to wait & see. We seen literally 2 different Arsenal's last season in terms of form, pre & post Xmas, so we'll just need to see what that means for this coming season.

Hopefully Conte stays without a club long enough if it does go wrong.

 

[Hansi Fick]

We have this conversation quite a lot, & he's not going anywhere just now so yeah, it might be all for nothing, just need to wait & see. We seen literally 2 different Arsenal's last season in terms of form, pre & post Xmas, so we'll just need to see what that means for this coming season.

Hopefully Conte stays without a club long enough of it does go wrong.

I know, sorry

We will keep having this conversation, that is if you indulge me.

We can wait and see what the transfer market brings, but I will need reliable statements of expectations about the next season.

Brentford (A)
Chelsea (H)
City (A)
Norwich (H)
Burnley (A)
Spurs (H)
Brighton (A)
Palace (H)
Villa (H)
Leicester (A)

These are the first 10 fixtures which bring you into the beginning of November
A minimum of 20 points should be expected, period, no ifs and buts.
Less, and Arteta should be gone.

 

[GoonerBear]

I know, sorry

We will keep having this conversation, that is if you indulge me.

We can wait and see what the transfer market brings, but I will need reliable statements of expectations about the next season.

Brentford (A)
Chelsea (H)
City (A)
Norwich (H)
Burnley (A)
Spurs (H)
Brighton (A)
Palace (H)
Villa (H)
Leicester (A)

These are the first 10 fixtures which bring you into the beginning of November
A minimum of 20 points should be expected, period, no ifs and buts.
Less, and Arteta should be gone.

No its fine, I like the discussion, hence why I'm so active in the thread.

Yeah, having Chelsea, City & Spurs in our first 6 games means it's a tough start. Need to get some good points on the board early, certainly can't start like we did last season, think we had 14 points from 14 games, that was just ridiculous.

I want to see improvement, I won't be naive enough to think we'll be better than the current top 4, but there's no reason we shouldn't be 5th & certainly a lot closer to the top 4 as a base to build further from.

 

[Dancfc]

No its fine, I like the discussion, hence why I'm so active in the thread.

Yeah, having Chelsea, City & Spurs in our first 6 games means it's a tough start. Need to get some good points on the board early, certainly can't start like we did last season, think we had 14 points from 14 games, that was just ridiculous.

I want to see improvement, I won't be naive enough to think we'll be better than the current top 4, but there's no reason we shouldn't be 5th & certainly a lot closer to the top 4 as a base to build further from.

Probably the best time to get us with so many players returning late from the Euro's, unfortunately.

 

[Hansi Fick]

No its fine, I like the discussion, hence why I'm so active in the thread.

Yeah, having Chelsea, City & Spurs in our first 6 games means it's a tough start. Need to get some good points on the board early, certainly can't start like we did last season, think we had 14 points from 14 games, that was just ridiculous.

I want to see improvement, I won't be naive enough to think we'll be better than the current top 4, but there's no reason we shouldn't be 5th & certainly a lot closer to the top 4 as a base to build further from.

The 20 points mean you *could* lose to all of City, Chelsea and Spurs as long as you win the rest (including Leicester). It also means you could draw at Leicester if you get a point against either of the three. Again, if you win all the games against the small teams.

Think that's not too high expectations for this current Arsenal. Especially since both the NLD at home and Chelsea at home really demand at least a point, honestly a win. So if you manage that, you could even lose a couple of points against a smaller opponent.

Do you think this kind of benchmark is realistic? I ask because gunners keep saying that Arteta will stay and then next season there's no excuses. So what does it mean, for you and for the club? Are you willing to expect a certain amount of points as make or break? Is the club willing to?
And if not 10 games and 20 points, how many games, and how many points?

 

[GoonerBear]

Probably the best time to get us with so many players returning late from the Euro's, unfortunately.

The tournament years are a pain. That's why I have had a chuckle at the digs about yesterdays game vs Hibs. We trained lunchtime yesterday, had a mixed team including seniors, young guys & guys that won't be here come the end of August, lost to a goal keeping howler & an offside goal, yet its seen as a disaster. Its all well saying pre season your looking for signs, but increasingly every year its more difficult to get your actual players as part of your pre season. I remember a couple of years back Liverpool losing nearly every pre season game including a 3-0 defeat to Napoli in Edinburgh, & they went on to win the league.

The 20 points mean you *could* lose to all of City, Chelsea and Spurs as long as you win the rest (including Leicester). It also means you could draw at Leicester if you get a point against either of the three. Again, if you win all the games against the small teams.

Think that's not too high expectations for this current Arsenal. Especially since both the NLD at home and Chelsea at home really demand at least a point, honestly a win. So if you manage that, you could even lose a couple of points against a smaller opponent.

Do you think this kind of benchmark is realistic? I ask because gunners keep saying that Arteta will stay and then next season there's no excuses. So what does it mean, for you and for the club? Are you willing to expect a certain amount of points as make or break? Is the club willing to?
And if not 10 games and 20 points, how many games, and how many points?

No, I think it's fair. Like I said, to be better, you need to be more consistent. Considering we got 61 points last season, I don't think it's too much to say, let's aim for the 70 point mark at least for the season and see where that gets you. Utd got 66 points 19/20, & 74 points last season.

So 20 points in 10 games is 2 points a game. Over the course of a 38 game season that's 76 points, so yeah, that would be a good benchmark.

 

[Hansi Fick]

The tournament years are a pain. That's why I have had a chuckle at the digs about yesterdays game vs Hibs. We trained lunchtime yesterday, had a mixed team including seniors, young guys & guys that won't be here come the end of August, lost to a goal keeping howler & an offside goal, yet its seen as a disaster. Its all well saying pre season your looking for signs, but increasingly every year its more difficult to get your actual players as part of your pre season.


No, I think it's fair. Like I said, to be better, you need to be more consistent. Considering we got 61 points last season, I don't think it's too much to say, let's aim for the 70 point mark at least for the season and see where that gets you. Utd got 66 points 19/20, & 74 points last season.

So 20 points in 10 games is 2 points a game. Over the course of a 38 game season that's 76 points, so yeah, that would be a good benchmark.

On reconsideration, 2 points per game over the season, 76 points, usually gets you into top 4 rather comfortably, so that might be a tad high as a bare minimum target.

Looking at those first 10 games, I do think that's the average you must get in those, there's a lot of lower table opponents = must win games in there, on top of big games of which a couple have a special relevance.
But I will maybe correct it down to 18 points. But then, there's no excuses.

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 1
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 1
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 3
Leicester (A) - 0

or

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 0
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 3
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 1
Leicester (A) - 1

Something like that. Anything worse, he should be sacked right away.

Palace at home I have as an absolute must win. There's a few things you cannot afford to have happen as a manager. Like Moyes could not afford to lose at home to Everton, Arteta certainly must beat a Vieira-coached Palace.

 

[GoonerBear]

On reconsideration, 2 points per game over the season, 76 points, usually gets you into top 4 rather comfortably, so that might be a tad high as a bare minimum target.

Looking at those first 10 games, I do think that's the average you must get in those, there's a lot of lower table opponents = must win games in there, on top of big games of which a couple have a special relevance.
But I will maybe correct it down to 18 points. But then, there's no excuses.

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 1
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 1
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 3
Leicester (A) - 0

or

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 0
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 3
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 1
Leicester (A) - 1

Something like that. Anything worse, he should be sacked right away.

Palace at home I have as an absolute must win. There's a few things you cannot afford to have happen as a manager. Like Moyes could not afford to lose at home to Everton, Arteta certainly must beat a Vieira-coached Palace.

Brentford, on a Friday night, first game of the season, live on TV with Brentfords first ever game in the Premier League...that has Arsenal banana skin written all over it!

 

[Hansi Fick]

Brentford, on a Friday night, first game of the season, live on TV with Brentfords first ever game in the Premier League...that has Arsenal banana skin written all over it!

Well sure, that can happen; but then the points must be made up in other games, like against Chelsea or Leicester..

 

[anant]

On reconsideration, 2 points per game over the season, 76 points, usually gets you into top 4 rather comfortably, so that might be a tad high as a bare minimum target.

Looking at those first 10 games, I do think that's the average you must get in those, there's a lot of lower table opponents = must win games in there, on top of big games of which a couple have a special relevance.
But I will maybe correct it down to 18 points. But then, there's no excuses.

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 1
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 1
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 3
Leicester (A) - 0

or

Brentford (A) - 3
Chelsea (H) - 0
City (A) - 0
Norwich (H) - 3
Burnley (A) - 3
Spurs (H) - 3
Brighton (A) - 1
Palace (H) - 3
Villa (H) - 1
Leicester (A) - 1

Something like that. Anything worse, he should be sacked right away.

Palace at home I have as an absolute must win. There's a few things you cannot afford to have happen as a manager. Like Moyes could not afford to lose at home to Everton, Arteta certainly must beat a Vieira-coached Palace.

If they want to finish in top 6 this time, they need to get those 18 points. They're having 2 tough games in 1st 10, and 2 moderately tough (Leicester and Spurs). And then there are 2 (BHA and Villa) that can be tricky if they don't turn up.

At the very least they'd need to win vs the likes of Palace, Brentford, Burnley and Norwich - no ifs no buts. And get 6 points against Leicester, Spurs, BHA and Villa.

I know games aren't won on paper, but anything less and they might as well kiss hopes of European football goodbye

 

[Hansi Fick]

If they want to finish in top 6 this time, they need to get those 18 points. They're having 2 tough games in 1st 10, and 2 moderately tough (Leicester and Spurs). And then there are 2 (BHA and Villa) that can be tricky if they don't turn up.

At the very least they'd need to win vs the likes of Palace, Brentford, Burnley and Norwich - no ifs no buts. And get 6 points against Leicester, Spurs, BHA and Villa.

I know games aren't won on paper, but anything less and they might as well kiss hopes of European football goodbye

That's why I'm bringing it up.
At some point, Arsenal, and Arsenal fans, must get real about their targets and expectations.
And ultimately, one and a half years in, the currency of successful football is points, nothing else. Not enough points, not good enough from the manager, there must be consequences.

 

[Topgun1]

People who are saying we should have kept Wenger are extremely disingenuous. Wenger is the reason why we dropped out of the top 4 in the first place. We failed to qualify for the Champions League two consecutive seasons, there was no way back and to claim there was, is simply bad-faith.

We spent £530 million on players in the 5 years between 2016 and 2021. We have absolutely nothing to show for it (for this purpose I'm not counting the FA cups even though it's nice to win them ofc). Just to put it into context, Bayern Munich spent £357 million in the same period.

We got knocked out of the Europa League by Villareal who spent £245 million in the same period.

The problem isn't the money. It's the incompetent board and the brainless executives that they appoint who don't have a clue how to run a football club. They have no background in football. Almost every transfer decision has been a disaster only topped by their managerial decisions.

Nothing will change for as long as we don't have a strong manager who tells them to stay away from footballing decisions. Emery was too weak when they commanded him to sign Pepe for £72 million. He should have told them to shove it, but instead he was far too weak. The moment he spoke up, he was gone like a flash.

Arteta is a perfect manager for them because they want a yes man. Someone who says "yes" as we slide down the table. He will soon find out what the fans think of him.

 

[Walrus]

Saliba to Marseille confirmed. Really weird one (to add to the list) when they apparently want to spunk 50m on Ben White. Just another of Artetas really questionable decisions.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Saliba to Marseille confirmed. Really weird one (to add to the list) when they apparently want to spunk 50m on Ben White. Just another of Artetas really questionable decisions.

And they also sold Mavropanos to Stuttgart, who had a very good season there, for something like 5-7m € including the loan fee

 

[unplayable]

 

[horsechoker]

Isn't this from when Arteta was a player?

 

[SirReginald]

Saliba to Marseille confirmed. Really weird one (to add to the list) when they apparently want to spunk 50m on Ben White. Just another of Artetas really questionable decisions.

Should really stick to coach or assistant manager. But like former Chelsea players Di Matteo, Zola, Vialli etc

Some people take to the job well. Others should cut their losses.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

The majority of posters on Arsenal Mania see Arteta as a dead man walking as soon as the fans are in the stadium. He is going to be under immense pressure from fans next season. He has had a free ride so far.

He will be gone by Christmas.

 

[tinfish]

I'm a realist and I'll say it straight off the bat - Arsenal are ****ed under the current ownership, manager and players being linked.

It all stems from the incompetent owners. We have the worst owners in the league. People that don't understand football, a man who NEVER attends Arsenal games or shows any interest. Rumours had it when he did come to a game, he asked which colour shirt Arsenal were wearing. Edu and Arteta combination is incompetent, as shown by the questionable decisions made by the club. Vinai is still not sacked, even Woodward got the chop ffs.

Prior to that we had Raul Sanllehi who sanctioned corrupt deals to line his own pockets...the club didn't even flinch.

Point being the club is being flushed down the toilet to the detriment of the fans. Kronke doesn't care and he will never invest or change the structure of the club to get it back to where it belongs.

It's a sad time to be an Arsenal fan, before we had beautiful football, Wenger (I like him) and a classy image (sustainable club etc). Now we have nothing. Arsenal to me has lost it's identity as soon as the Super League was announced.

The players we are linked to this season is a bitter disappointment to how far we declined. The other Gooner above talking about a youthful core base or whatever is talking out of his arse. We've been trying to do that since Fabregas emerged and they all move on eventually due our lack of ambition. Like most of us Arsenal fans, even the most deluded ones we all wish the club well. Unfortunately I just don't see it anytime soon. I think the truth will hit many eventually when Saka leaves in 2 - 4 seasons times. 19 years old and our best player.

 

[Bebestation]

I'm a realist and I'll say it straight off the bat - Arsenal are ****ed under the current ownership, manager and players being linked.

It all stems from the incompetent owners. We have the worst owners in the league. People that don't understand football, a man who NEVER attends Arsenal games or shows any interest. Rumours had it when he did come to a game, he asked which colour shirt Arsenal were wearing. Edu and Arteta combination is incompetent, as shown by the questionable decisions made by the club. Vinai is still not sacked, even Woodward got the chop ffs.

Prior to that we had Raul Sanllehi who sanctioned corrupt deals to line his own pockets...the club didn't even flinch.

Point being the club is being flushed down the toilet to the detriment of the fans. Kronke doesn't care and he will never invest or change the structure of the club to get it back to where it belongs.

It's a sad time to be an Arsenal fan, before we had beautiful football, Wenger (I like him) and a classy image (sustainable club etc). Now we have nothing. Arsenal to me has lost it's identity as soon as the Super League was announced.

The players we are linked to this season is a bitter disappointment to how far we declined. The other Gooner above talking about a youthful core base or whatever is talking out of his arse. We've been trying to do that since Fabregas emerged and they all move on eventually due our lack of ambition. Like most of us Arsenal fans, even the most deluded ones we all wish the club well. Unfortunately I just don't see it anytime soon. I think the truth will hit many eventually when Saka leaves in 2 - 4 seasons times. 19 years old and our best player.

It's sad to hear this even if your a rival because it ultimately effects the beauty of the sport.

Who have you been linked with?

I hate the Glazer's but I do also think they are better than Kroenke.