Literally Al-Qaeda offshoots aren’t as insane and tyrannical as the shi’te Ayatollahs it seems. Unbelievable
But Khomeini was saying same stuff at first to get Western approval and brought mandatory hijab 2 years after the revolution.
Middle East Politics
- Thread starter Raoul
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Literally Al-Qaeda offshoots aren’t as insane and tyrannical as the shi’te Ayatollahs it seems. Unbelievable
But Khomeini was saying same stuff at first to get Western approval and brought mandatory hijab 2 years after the revolution.
Yes, and there were even some good vibes statements from the Taliban when they returned to power that have proven false. Islamist movements, as diverse as they are, have it all to prove when it comes to safe-guarding liberties, among other things. Have to hope that thirteen years of protest and conflict will ensure Syrians will strive to hold them to account. There have been years of protests against HTS in Idlib already.
Out of interest , what have they been protesting about (ie is it social, economic, political) and what has the HTS response been?
What happened in Lybia and Iraq?
What words have been backep up with actions?
Its been 3 days.
Dont get me wrong, its great news Assad has been overthrown but God knows what future holds.
Taliban offers amnesty, promises women’s rights and media freedom
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...s-resume-as-biden-defends-afghanistan-pulloutTime will tell
According to Aaron Zelin, who is the author of what I think is the only English-language book-length study of HTS, there have been protests against various economic policies and corruption, against arbitrary detainment and use of torture in truly grim prisons, and more generally against restrictive social policies targeting individual and womens’ rights. Zelin describes one relatively benign form of response from HTS:
“individuals involved in protests or comments online have allegedly been forced to publish videos of themselves apologizing to HTS and its leader Jawlani.”
However it has been a lot worse in many cases, and HTS have also targeted opposition media outlets and individuals. To give one noteworthy example - you may remember the regular anti-regime protests held in the town of Kafr Nabl, whereby by local residents would demonstrate holding signs directed at Western audiences:
HTS assassinated one of the main organizers of these iconic protests, Raed Fares, in 2018.
Zelin concludes that “it is evident that while Jawlani and HTS are attempting to distance themselves from their past associations with AQ and IS, they have turned in many ways into a local regime that acts like other regional authoritarian states.”
With this wave of prisoners emerging from Assad’s dungeons, I’ll be very interested to see if Abu Musab al-Suri surfaces, while hoping guys like him are completely sidelined in the new Syria:
Woud you look at that.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-launch-strikes-to-protect-interests-in-syria
https://www.lemonde.fr/internationa...t-renverse-le-regime-syrien_6438663_3210.html
If anyone thinks that this whole thing wasn't allowed and done with foreign help, or that the big dogs will let the Syrians freely self-determinate, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Syria has a very, very uncertain future ahead.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-launch-strikes-to-protect-interests-in-syria
https://www.lemonde.fr/internationa...t-renverse-le-regime-syrien_6438663_3210.html
If anyone thinks that this whole thing wasn't allowed and done with foreign help, or that the big dogs will let the Syrians freely self-determinate, I've got a bridge to sell you.
Syria has a very, very uncertain future ahead.
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Why the feck is Israel bombing Syria now?
Who is Al Golani?
https://www.dawn.com/news/1877606/al-golani-the-man-who-led-overthrow-of-syrias-president-assad
What will be Syria future?
https://www.dawn.com/news/1877837
https://www.dawn.com/news/1877606/al-golani-the-man-who-led-overthrow-of-syrias-president-assad
What will be Syria future?
https://www.dawn.com/news/1877837
Trying to get rid of the more destructive weapons that had been under Assad’s control, but are now unprotected and could fall into the wrong hands.
Israel will get criticised in public by the other countries in the Middle East, but I’d bet anything that they are privately glad it’s being done.
Land grab.
Benjamin Netanyahu says Golan Heights will remain part of Israel ‘for eternity’
PM’s words follow Israeli takeover of previously demilitarised zone in Syrian-controlled territory
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...zone-amid-airstrikes-on-regime-weapons-depots
If you live in a country bordering that state, either don't have a military or have it to subjugate your population. Any other option and you'll be constantly bombed and your land stolen with the full cooperation of the US. It's literally the main goals of its existence, colonial expansion and the continuous instability of the region.
Some piece of shit zionist wrote the other day in the NYT that Syrian people should thank Israel for their liberation, hours later Syria is invaded and every city is bombed by his friends. Probably a lesson for people who ally themselves with those child-murdering cnuts in the hope of seeing their countries freed from authoritarian regimes.
Seems like the rescue work has now concluded:
They don't believe there are more hidden levels or cells to be discovered. Sadly most of those families waiting outside of the prison will not be getting their loved ones back. There will be a lot of work now to catalog all available documentation on executed prisoners over the years - and mass graves, etc. in the area.
They are not the same. The war in Iraq was a war crime, and was UK/US led.
Libya destabilisation was NATO led, but more grey for me in terms of what should or shouldn’t have happened.
We can go through the bones of both these incidences and come to different conclusions whether they were right or wrong, but you can probably can guess my view (specifically the Iraq war).
The Syrian war was organic and Syrian-led. The revolutionaries were on the cusp of toppling the Assad regime before foreign intervention around 2015/2016 when Assad went to Iran and Russia for help (this isn’t to say there was no non-state influence prior to that either btw).
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So you're expecting Syria to live a normal life and to be a functional state just cause revolution was organic as you say?
You really think no country had anything to do with the revolution and it was entirely organic? If thats what you think I would call that bizarre and naive.
Where did I say they would live a normal life or be a functional state?
And re read my post - I edited it moments after replying to you.
Well you found my comment about doubting opposition forces will make some kind of normal government and peace there in the foreseeable future bizarre and that's where we started.
I broadly agree that Iraq war was pretty much wrong on both a strategic level and on a humanitarian level - but a war crime it was not.
Might sound pedantic, but definitions of War of Aggression wasn't actually formalized in the Rome Statute until 2010 when the signatories aligned on what the definition was. Can't really be a crime if there's no legal governance over such an act.
I think you are letting your hatred of Israel get in the way of coming to a rational explanation.
I bet you countries bordering Israel, such as Jordan and Lebanon, will be quietly delighted at the destruction of advanced weaponry. They’ll never say it out loud of course, but it’s hugely beneficial to them.
As for this being a land grab, that simply doesn’t make sense. It’s a tiny portion of land with no real value, but with a real risk of being the starting point for an attack on Israel like the October 2023 attacks.
But security concerns are not a valid reason for a land grab? Put troops at the border and fortify your side of the border or whatever, but Israel doesn't get to grab land and say "this is our buffer zone" now.
It's the same sort of excuses Russia are using for their Ukraine invasion/occupation.
Its also a buffer zone for already occupied territory. Its straight out of the Putin playbook, but the West seems to be totally on board with it.
I’m not saying they have the right, to be honest. Maybe legally, maybe not. Maybe morally. Again, maybe not, you could make an argument each way. And I also think that if other countries doubt their true intentions then Israel needs to shoulder the blame for that. They’ve created the mistrust which is manifesting now.
However this just feels like the most pragmatic option. To use the military bases that were used by the UN peacekeeping force and the Syrian Army up until a few days ago. My guess is that it was the least expensive option, taking the least time to set up. I do understand that others might not agree - I was objecting to the language of colonialism and land-grabbing, which simply doesn’t fit with reality, due to how small the area is.
They are so so different in terms of what is actually happening though. Russia has not just taken a small slither of land along the border, it has taken many thousands times more.
Putin has invaded lands in Ukraine though, which have sizeable populations, lots of heavy industry, and fossil fuels. Now THAT is an actual land grab. It’s a financial and political decision. It really is a false comparison.
Are you suggesting the Israelis aren't partial to a land grab? Just listen to their politicians, they seem to feel they're entitled to pretty much the entire territory based on dogma.
I’m not suggesting that at all. I’m saying that that is very obviously not what is happening here. The West Bank is a land grab, it’s morally and legally wrong, unjustifiable in 1967 and every day since. The Golan heights are more nuanced but I’d still call them a land grab, but one with understandable security concerns behind it.
What’s happening today is just them making sure the border is secure and that there is no infiltration into Israel from the more extreme elements of the uprising.
Doesn't matter whether it's a slither or a swathe, no country in the world would accept this (and neither should they) why should the Syrians?
Yes, because it's a a really weird comment. Was the incumbent government 'normal' and 'peacekeeping'?
What are you basing your comment on that the revolutionaries will not be a 'kind of normal government' and 'peaceful'?
That border was already secure and fortified, there was no reason to expand further other than to land grab. Neither is it logical for the rebels to start attacking the most militarily powerful country in the region just after taking over a country in chaos. The security excuse - is what is an excuse.
Of course it matters, because it’s a strong indicator of the intentions of the country doing it. And plenty of countries would ‘accept’ it if the ones doing it were more powerful.
It’s been interesting to see no hint of a response from Jolani (unless I’ve missed it?). I suspect there are lines of communication there, and probably the absolute last thing Jolani needs is an Islamist attack on Israel from Syria while he is trying to present himself as a moderate to the West.
No, incumbent government wasnt normal and peacekeeping. Didnt say it nor meant it.
I'm basing my comment on lots of revolutionary groups backed by different neighbouring countries, each with they interest in this. I didnt say government wont be peaceful but that I doubt there will be peace in the country any time soon. If you find that weird I cant help you, you're living in a lala land.
I think that’s complete rubbish, and will be shown to be the case. Israel will spend more on the operation to secure the border than they could possibly gain from having that tiny bit of land. So the maths doesn’t add up.
I can see neither of us are going to change our minds, so we’ll just have to see over the next few months if Israel starts populating the area like they did in the West Bank, Gaza etc, or if Netanyahu suddenly starts talking about it as land Israel has a right to own in perpetuity. Neither of those things will happen though.
But as someone already mentioned, it already is a secure border for the most part. And of course Israel would caveat any excursion outside of their recognised borders as a 'security' operation. It was their casus belli for invading Southern Lebanon in the 80s, instilling an apartheid system in the West Bank, and indeed their reasons for ethnically cleansing Gaza with grounds for occupying it after. This angle of every operation being a 'security' operation is a convenient crutch for their apologists in the West to absolve them of any accusation of facilitating a landgrab, meanwhile you have their own politicians saying the quite bit out loud.
This is not a nation that warrants any benefit of the doubt in regards to its conduct outside of its recognised borders.
Yes think you are letting your hatred of arab countries getting in the way of coming to a rational explanation.
Few kilometers my as*, they have taken the entire Mount Hermon now and their tanks are 23 km from the capital Damascus.
Yeah maybe in the age of colonization this sort of behavior would be acceptable, but we have moved on from that (well supposedly).
It absolutely makes no sense for the rebels to attack Israel at this point, I've already made the point that they already have defensive forces on their side of the buffer which could easily deal with any rag tag break aways who want to try a terrorist attack on Israel (even though the Golan heights are not actually Israeli territory to begin with). This is just an opportunistic land grab, I will change my mind of this if Israeli's withdraw after the dust settles but given their past track record this isn't likely.
You can justifiably argue that Israel does not ‘warrant any benefit of the doubt’. In fact I said that myself a few posts up this thread. They created that through their own actions.
But the problem with not trusting a liar is that in the event that the liar is telling the truth, you will have been incorrect in disbelieving them. Your disbelief would be justified, sure. But you’d still have got it wrong, and I think that’s what’s happening here. Time will tell, I guess.
Edit for weird auto-sentence I inserted!