Come on, man. I thought that some of your thinking was blinkered early on, but this really takes the biscuit.
Middle East Politics
- Thread starter Raoul
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Come on, man. I thought that some of your thinking was blinkered early on, but this really takes the biscuit.
What was wrong about what he said? Its common knowledge that Israel started the six day war.
What was blinkered about my thinking beforehand and how did Syria start the 67 war?
Fired the first shots. To say they started it is to deliberately avoid the context. I cannot believe that someone could accidentally come to that kind of black and white opinion.
Apologies, you’re right. Firing the first shots is not the same as starting a war.
And with respect, not sure I’ll take much stall with your opinion of me apparently being blinkered when your view is that receiving billions of free money (but some being taken off secretly so we can’t see or verify it) is in any way a country trying to rein in another.
Good summary (graphic)
Ignore the first tweet
Ignore the first tweet
Do you ever get to a point in a debate with someone where you realise that there is absolutely no point continuing? That's me, now.
For someone who appears to be quite well informed on matters in the Middle East, to reduce the origins of the six day war into some binary, black and white opinion, can only come from a pre-formed agenda.
It's fascinating how many Westerners despite their weird obsession with the region still have no clue what they're talking about every time they discuss it.
There is context and nuance to literally every single conflict in history. That includes the current conflict in Gaza, the six day war, WW2, WW1, Russia Ukraine, Japan’s colonial conquests, American revolution , civil war, 30 year war, Punic wars and any one of a number of anti colonial revolutions that sprung up .
I can very happily and easily say that Hamas started this current conflict. Or that Russia started the war. Or that Germany started WW1. Those are factual statements. None of those statements are an analysis of the morality of their attacks or the underlying factors why they may have acted why they did.
Regardless factually they did ‘start’ the hot conflict with the actual attack.
Please feel free to block me or not engage with my posts if you feel you’ve reached that stage, instead of insulting my views. I refrained from doing so despite the only slight criticism you were able to offer about Israel being the now almost 60 year occupation and settlement of 700k people in a territory another people call their own.
Al-Bashir has been officially appointed as caretaker PM of the transitional government.
Nice final sentence, which, whilst being apparently about me, says an awful lot about you, and your intentions in this conversation. I see you.
It's more ideological bad faith rather than cluelessness. The amounts of hypocrisy and gaslighting when it comes to this criminal rogue state are astounding.
No one who's half informed about the region and how Israel proceeded since 1948 can say with a straight face that Israel's illegal bombings in Syria and taking over Mt Hermon is to prevent attacks on their soil and protect the UN with whom they've been at odds since 1967.
We all know that this "temporary occupation" will turn out to be permanent. Israel's adding buffer to their already illegally occupied buffer zone (the Golan Heights). Netanyahu openly said two days ago that the Golan Heights are Israel's forever with no one in the West batting an eyelid.
Then you have two posters having the gall to paint this obvious land grab as kinda "understandable".
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My conversation with you on this particular topic has focused solely on Israel’s actions within Syria, because that is what you were initially posting about. The sentence and the overall interest in the conversation with you is therefore linked to Israel’s action with regards to Syria.
In other posts in the recent past, and with other posters, I have discussed Turkey, the Kurds, the rebel groups, Iran, Russia and Syria and Syrians as a whole, all without a single reference to or interest in Israel. In fact, in one of the posts I was arguing with other posters who suggested any link between ISIS and Israel.
As I already said, if you feel you ‘see me’ (whatever that means) and conversation has reached a point of pointlessness, please feel free to not engage with my posts or unsee me entirely.
@Raoul When it opened YouTube there was one of those fact-checker messages underneath saying that it wasn’t filmed in Syria. Just FYI.
Lebanon says will deal with ex-Syrian officials according to law
Amid suggestions online about former Syrian officials being in Lebanon, the office of Lebanese caretaker Prime Minister Najib Mikati has issued a statement seeking to clarify that it would deal with any potential cases based on the law.
The Lebanese government’s policy has consistently adhered to Lebanese and international laws, particularly in the context of Lebanon hosting hundreds of thousands of displaced Syrians, it said in the statement.
Mikati is “closely following” the issue and is in contact with top judicial and security officials, his office said.
It added that any cases will be dealt with by “what is required by the laws and regulations in force, under the supervision of the competent judiciary and in a manner that secures the interests of Lebanon and the Lebanese and the future of relations with the Syrian people”.
Mikati responding to the suggestion that Lebanon may end up housing Syrian officials/ generals running away.
It's also a false hypothetical, because this isn't something that happens currently. The US have had governments before that could use aid politically like that, but with Biden at the helm it does not, and it isn't very likely to change with Trump because Israel is an easy way to keep the party happy while he does his own thing.
Fair enough. Didn't see that bit about the first tweet. Was mainly looking at the other 20 odd tweets in the thread.
No worries, I just thought you might want to know. It’s quite an emotional watch, isn’t it.
Here's the current shitshow that Syria currently is, and the different factions at play as of yesterday:
- The Turkey backed Syrian National Army (SNA) in the North and North-East.
- The US backed SDF/YPG/PKK (Kurds) in the North and the West.
- HTS (ex ISIS) in the East and South-East.
- The Syrian Free Army (SFA) and the US sitting on the so-called "Deconfliction Zone" in Al Tanf in the South.
- Israel in the South-East (Golan Heights and Mt Hermon).
- The Turkey backed Syrian National Army (SNA) in the North and North-East.
- The US backed SDF/YPG/PKK (Kurds) in the North and the West.
- HTS (ex ISIS) in the East and South-East.
- The Syrian Free Army (SFA) and the US sitting on the so-called "Deconfliction Zone" in Al Tanf in the South.
- Israel in the South-East (Golan Heights and Mt Hermon).
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Here's how the 12 days offensive led by HTS unfolded and the movements of the other factions:
Here's now what Israel move in Syria since 24/11/27. Anyone thinking that this is done for "security reasons" can go suck a lemon.
Well quite. However, despite being the blinkered one, I was attempting to engage in good faith in a hypothetical universe where the USA apparently punishes Israel through secret means. Which is great cos it means we don’t even need to know about or question it.
Oh jeez, you’re still angry?!
It was a relatively simple concept. Enjoy the rest of your evening, fella
Israel says it has destroyed 80 percent of the Syrian army’s capabilities
Israeli Army Radio said that Israel’s air force has completed the main part of the military operation it began in Syria, called Operation Arrow of Bashan/Golan, and that it has destroyed about 80 percent of the Syrian army’s military capabilities.
Army Radio added that since the start of the operation on Sunday night, the Israeli military has destroyed warplanes, combat helicopters, surface-to-air missile batteries, Scud and cruise missiles, drones, weapons depots, and ammunition manufacturing sites, army sites and facilities connected to Iran, and sunk 15 missile boats.
The ground operation in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights east of the ceasefire line is continuing, Army Radio said.
Totally normal behaviour.
This is a very sad story man.
A perfectly logical thing to do to bring extra stability to a country.
"Concept" is a weird description. It was you making a wrong claim about how the US provides aid and other benefits to Israel.
I didn’t make any kind of wrong claim.
Yes, you did. This is you making a claim about how aid to Israel is decided on. It's wrong, so it's a wrong claim:
Your speculations rely on US public support for Israel being stronger than the private support. With the current administration in particular, that isn't just wrong, it's the complete opposite of reality. It's why we have seen countless lies about red lines and such; the actual private support for Israel is so insanely strong that it looks bad even to an extremely pro-Israeli American public, so the American government have to pretend to be more critical than they really are. In reality they don't mind Israel blocking aid, helping gangs steal what little comes through, or things like the ground invasion of Rafah. But, in public, they pretended to disapprove.
“It is wrong, so it is a wrong claim” has to be amongst the worst attempts at proof I’ve ever seen.
Please can we leave it there.
That wasn't an attempt at a proof. I have to assume you know that, so what are you trying to do with this? Especially if you don't want to engage, that makes it extra weird.
Nice country you have there, a shame if something were to happen to it.
That’s absolutely fine. Think I’m weird. Now let’s stop clogging up this board.
Yes, I kind of had to assume you're fine with it when you're making things like that up for no gain, it'd presumably be a reaction you anticipated. The alternative is that you actually thought it was an "attempt at a proof", but I'm really struggling believing that can be true.
All Israel acting in self defence. This was actually a conflict Syria started and actually sinking a country’s fleet and destroying all of its air defences is a perfectly normal thing to do which isn’t a declaration of war.
Etc etc etc.
Nothing says a country is in existential peril than it being engaged in 5 aggressive wars at once.
It’s an interesting long term geopolitical strategy really. Basically have to hope that they/the USA maintain perpetual military superiority in the region.
It is easier I think when you consider Netanyahu's age. He wants to remain out of prison for the time he has left. I doubt he is thinking beyond the next 5-10 years.
I do wonder what the opinion on Israel’s behaviour will be in 50/100 years time. Whether the generally accepted position will be, “how the feck were they allowed to get away with that”
It’s a waste of time talking to people like them. They get themselves into knots trying to explain and defend Israel when it flies in the face of reality and morality.