Michael Oliver

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
I have had a CLOSER look.

Ive said it’s a penalty, but soft. I suggest you look at the definition of stonewall penalty and google some videos, and you will see what one looks like. The fact that there’s a lot of debate about it shows that it’s not in anyway stonewall.
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Not every "stonewall" penalty has to be a crunching tackle, this penalty was the definition of stonewall.

You see some penalties where an attacker could, theoretically stay on their feet, that would be my definition of a soft penalty, but this one is where Pogba would have no way to keep going.

Anyone saying this is debatable or soft as you put it probably haven't ran past someone and had their trailing leg knocked behind their standing leg.

We could keep going on this but maybe agree to disagree would be a more amicable way of leaving this conversation.
 
yumtum said:
It's stonewall, I'd suggest having a closer look, if you're running past a defender and that defender hits your leg into your other leg, you're not going to be able to keep running, making it an obvious foul.
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Pogba sort of kicks the back of his leg to be fair




It certainly wouldn't be given 100% of the time, maybe not even 50%... So definitely not stonewall

If that was against us I think people would be furious.
 
Jeppers7 said:
The pen is a pen 100%. You could call it soft, doesn’t change the fact it’s a foul. The assault from Mings is crazy. How does that not get reviewed by VAR? Then just the usual Oliver Cnutishness like blowing up early when we have a corner but allowing villa time for a last attack.
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That timekeeping end of first half really annoyed me as well. Does Oliver not realise it is a minimum of 2 minutes added time, not roughly 2 minutes?

His worst decision of the night was giving the free kick to Traore when everyone assumed he'd been done for diving. Luckily Traore then took one of the worst free kicks ever seen at OT.
 
yumtum said:
Not every "stonewall" penalty has to be a crunching tackle, this penalty was the definition of stonewall.

You see some penalties where an attacker could, theoretically stay on their feet, that would be my definition of a soft penalty, but this one is where Pogba would have no way to keep going.

Anyone saying this is debatable or soft as you put it probably haven't ran past someone and had their trailing leg knocked behind their standing leg.

We could keep going on this but maybe agree to disagree would be a more amicable way of leaving this conversation.
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i didn’t say that had to be crunching at any point.

I love it when someone brings into a debate the “you are wrong, because you have never” argument:nono:

but yes, agree to disagree is clearly the best way forward.
 
Up and down performance. We got a fortunate penalty out of him, Baily could've been shown a red but Mings ,like usual, got away with one himself.

I felt Oliver was also brought in by Villa's willingness to go to ground too early, especially in the later stages of the 2nd half.

So, to be honest, I've seen much worse performances from this guy.
 
Going through the list of errors

- the dive by Traore given as a foul
- elbow by Mings
- first half he blew before two minutes when we had a corner
- 5 minutes extra time then extended when Villa was attacking
- the Shaw ‘foul’ when he was through on goal. The defender fell over
- any challenge on Grealish was given as a foul
- Martial was ankle tapped, doesn’t given a foul, then 10 seconds later he gave Villa a foul for a very soft challenge
- allowing a quick freekick for their goal, he didn’t even blow his whistle

But then he gives us a penalty, which was soft.
 
Josep Dowling said:
Going through the list of errors

- the dive by Traore given as a foul
- elbow by Mings
- first half he blew before two minutes when we had a corner
- 5 minutes extra time then extended when Villa was attacking
- the Shaw ‘foul’ when he was through on goal. The defender fell over
- any challenge on Grealish was given as a foul
- Martial was ankle tapped, doesn’t given a foul, then 10 seconds later he gave Villa a foul for a very soft challenge
- allowing a quick freekick for their goal, he didn’t even blow his whistle

But then he gives us a penalty, which was soft.
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Which VAR reviewed and didn’t even send the wanker to his little monitor. It was a pen.
 
Pagh Wraith said:
Here I thought this was quite a pro-United performance by the ref and what he let them get away with in terms of fouling. Then you read this thread and start doubting your own eyes. Did VAR even look at the Maguire handball at the end? Thought the penalty for United was correct though.
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Ref gave us very little in general play. Bruno was bundled over from behind among other ‘normal’ fouls. Not given for us but the same stuff given for Villa.

Which was the Maguire handball? Was that when Mings climbed all over him with no foul given?
 
sparx99 said:
what does soft even mean though? It’s a penalty or not.
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soft means it’s debatable. Sometimes given, sometimes not.

if only penalty decisions were black and white, or binary, but they aren’t.

if the ref hadn’t have given it, there’s every chance it wouldn’t have been overturned by VAR. that’s a debatable pen. That’s soft.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Up and down performance. We got a fortunate penalty out of him, Baily could've been shown a red but Mings ,like usual, got away with one himself.

I felt Oliver was also brought in by Villa's willingness to go to ground too early, especially in the later stages of the 2nd half.

So, to be honest, I've seen much worse performances from this guy.
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what did Bailly do?
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Pogba sort of kicks the back of his leg to be fair




It certainly wouldn't be given 100% of the time, maybe not even 50%... So definitely not stonewall

If that was against us I think people would be furious.
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Pretty clear pen based on that second video. In rugby that’s a glorious tap tackle.

Would like to see a translation of Luiz’ rant.
 
I have hated Oliver for years now. He is easily the worst ref against us, which is quite something considering the likes of Moss, Atkinson and Mason. He always shafts us, our win record in matches reffed by him is low. Gave Villa every call tonight, except for the penalty. Doubtless he still wants revenge for us overhauling Newcastle to win the PL in 1996.
 
He gace a freekick at one point when Cash fell over with no player within 5 metres of him.

Every time he referees a game you end up at the end of the game wondering what the score would have been if it wasn't for Michael Oliver.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Pogba sort of kicks the back of his leg to be fair




It certainly wouldn't be given 100% of the time, maybe not even 50%... So definitely not stonewall

If that was against us I think people would be furious.
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It’s a clearer pen then when I first saw it. Luiz just gets too tight. His arms are all over him as well...the contact between the legs together with the arms causes Pogba to fall.
 
Clear foul and penalty. He brushes Pogba's foot onto the back of his other leg, which trips him. He doesnt need to rugby tackle him for it to be a pen.

Other than that Oliver was his usual weak self, giving his decisions to whoever shouts the loudest.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
You can say that about almost anything, there's been some truly awful decisions in football history.

There's not a chance that Bailly foul was a straight red.
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Sure but I wouldn't risk going into a challenge like that with Oliver refereeing the game.
 
Honestly, this is probably Michael Oliver's best ever refereeing performance. Not saying much given the state of his usual performances, but by and large he kept his cards in his pocket in what was a fairly good natured game, correctly gave the pen, gave a few clearly wrong decisions either way but another ref could have easily sent someone off the number of last ditch challenges that were going in.

I think he's benefitting from the lack of crowd as he can't spinelessly give decisions based on whichever fans are shouting louder. Nothing to see here in my opinion.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Pogba sort of kicks the back of his leg to be fair




It certainly wouldn't be given 100% of the time, maybe not even 50%... So definitely not stonewall

If that was against us I think people would be furious.
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Could find himself in trouble with that tweet. Ten match ban I reckon.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Pogba sort of kicks the back of his leg to be fair




It certainly wouldn't be given 100% of the time, maybe not even 50%... So definitely not stonewall

If that was against us I think people would be furious.
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Wait, that's Douglas Luiz not some random crazy?!

He has to have felt that touch, and is somehow trying to argue it didn't happen? Absolutely baffling.
 
Pagh Wraith said:
Here I thought this was quite a pro-United performance by the ref and what he let them get away with in terms of fouling. Then you read this thread and start doubting your own eyes. Did VAR even look at the Maguire handball at the end? Thought the penalty for United was correct though.
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Gotta admit I thought it hit Maguire's hand at the end. I was just waiting for the chinless wonder to blow for it. It would've been quite harsh though, the ball bounced between both players a couple of times.
 
dwd said:
Could find himself in trouble with that tweet. Ten match ban I reckon.
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Bet he'll be banned for that, being a foreigner, while Henderson gets off scot free when saying that VARs bend the offside lines and blatantly cheat.
 
Jeppers7 said:
The pen is a pen 100%. You could call it soft, doesn’t change the fact it’s a foul. The assault from Mings is crazy. How does that not get reviewed by VAR? Then just the usual Oliver Cnutishness like blowing up early when we have a corner but allowing villa time for a last attack.
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I was losing my sh*t about this!
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Pogba sort of kicks the back of his leg to be fair




It certainly wouldn't be given 100% of the time, maybe not even 50%... So definitely not stonewall

If that was against us I think people would be furious.
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Second video shows clearly 100% pen. Defender put his leg in the way and pogba hit his leg. Zero doubt.
 
The 2nd close up clip further up the page shows the defender clip Poggers left foot. The contact is quite clear. That in turn makes Pogba clip his standing leg with his left foot. Classic ankle tap. Clear pen. Surprised schoolboy gave the pen immediately. Must’ve had a clear view.

I think Leicester have 8, and we have one more than Liverpool with 6. Must say, I’m outraged at Leicester.
 
Fitchett said:
I have hated Oliver for years now. He is easily the worst ref against us, which is quite something considering the likes of Moss, Atkinson and Mason. He always shafts us, our win record in matches reffed by him is low. Gave Villa every call tonight, except for the penalty. Doubtless he still wants revenge for us overhauling Newcastle to win the PL in 1996.
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He hates United with a passion, the corrupt match-fixing ****. Yesterday was absurd and annoying.
 
I hate the slack those cnuts are always getting from the FA after pulling shit like that. You add 2 minutes of injury time (which stands for minimum of 2 minutes) and then you blow your whistle 10 seconds prior to that when the attacking team has a corner - a goal scoring opportunity. Why isn't he getting some performance review and not getting called out for that by his bosses by being sidelined/fined for a few games?
 
sparx99 said:
what does soft even mean though? It’s a penalty or not.
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Like all penalties, it is one if it’s given. Whether it should be is where the debate comes in.

I don’t think VAR would have overturned the refs decision if he said No Penalty. “Soft”, in this case, means minimal contact, debatable impact of contact, borderline decision, also in a position where a goal or clear chance was nowhere close.
 
OrcaFat said:
Like all penalties, it is one if it’s given. Whether it should be is where the debate comes in.

I don’t think VAR would have overturned the refs decision if he said No Penalty. “Soft”, in this case, means minimal contact, debatable impact of contact, borderline decision, also in a position where a goal or clear chance was nowhere close.
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It was given....and VAR didn’t overturn it.
 
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