Don't get me wrong, I'm not the cafs ambassador to the black community, I just think there are a few sweeping statements being thrown around, and I always hate that whoever it is aimed at.
Music Michael Jackson is Dead (All general comment)
- Thread starter Alex
- Start date
Yes, and gay. Gaycist.
Mockers is a black man in white camouflage
I hate to think what would happen if anyone suggested a MOWO awards!
I hate to think what would happen if anyone suggested a MOWO awards!
Sounds stupid though. It'd have to be MOCO (C = Caucasian) if anything.
I hate to think what would happen if anyone suggested a MOWO awards!
What would happen? are you just projecting your own fear? I think people (inc. black) ave bigger things to worry about... now if they were wearing KKK uniforms at the door of said awards then they'd take notice.
Instead of assuming what a group of individuals will do about something you plan to do, why not ask them what they think? or just do it and see what happens... What is the feeling about the MoBo's in your community? are other races that bent out of shape about it?
I doubt it...
Anyway, this is off topic.
Stupid post. I wasn't denying any of that, I was questioning Jamie Foxx's comments.
Anyone else think Afro's improved as a poster? I think he has. And I mean that.
It helps that I smoke better weed nowadays, currently on some chocalate thai... I know its early!
Completely petty and unessessary retort mate
Actually I do...One of my mates who, whenever we talked about him (which wasn't a lot to be fair) would dismiss him as being embarrassed to be black and as such wanted nothing to do with him. The other day he was praising him as being an important figure in black history (although to be fair he said it grudgingly, whilst still bringing up his whitening)..I had this discussion in a room full of my black friends (I was only one of two white people there) and found it very interesting since they all seemed to like him very much....a lot of my black friends have often shown hostility to him before hand (by the way I live in South London, next to Brixton, so I have a lot of Black mates, if that makes any difference what so ever)
But obviously no, I'm not saying every black person is praising him, but it's interesting how your bringing, or certainly making and issue of, race in this thread...It's the first time in 40 odd pages it's been brought up.....I think the fact that it's taken 40 pages to even vaguely discuss race implies its not much of an issue at all in this discussion
Clearly
He was much better when he was black...and better looking.
There has been plenty of white, music award shows.
What's the big deal about people taking pride in their race? - a race that has been stripped of pride for the last 400 years or so.
What's the big deal about people taking pride in their race? - a race that has been stripped of pride for the last 400 years or so.
A wise man once said it don't matter if you're black or white!
It was a joke mate, I don't think you get my jokes
Ok, a handful of your mates down in Bricky is not representative of the community as a whole, I live in Lewisham, and I've not seen any of what you say but it's pretty obvious some will choose to look past his apparent bleaching after his death, people tend to do things like that with icons. Of course the age of your friends may also play into the way they have reacted to this, possibly.
I don't think I did bring up race by the way, I'm not sure whether you have misinterpreted my posts or overlooked the earlier ones that I replied to, either way it seems you have missed something so maybe you should go back.
When you said this to those mates you were talking about what did they say?
I don't think I did bring up race by the way, I'm not sure whether you have misinterpreted my posts or overlooked the earlier ones that I replied to, either way it seems you have missed something so maybe you should go back.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough...I'm 25 so I've grown up with him as mainly a white man, as have most of my mates. Wasn't trying to convey the thoughts of a whole community, just pointing out how a lot of people are giving in to hagiography...but as you say, it's a natural thing to do in the aftermath of his death. Fair point
I re-edited my post... and you've used that word 'hagiography' so many times you've forced me to go and look it up.
Generally laughed and said, the kids aren't his are they!...I didn't bring it up, someone else did..It wasn't a particularly heated discussion. (I rarely have them when I'm not on the Caf
) but it was more of a joke than anything,..Someone said 'but why did he get white kids?' and someone else replied 'Cos black kids wouldnt stand for any of his shit' and everyone laughed and we had another game of Fight Night and talked about something else
...The sad thing is that he wasn't a bad looking bloke...I know his dad used to call him big nose an all that, but once he'd done his nose the first time in 84 he still looked very good looking bloke, and was still black, but he just wouldn't stop...
I see it like he was a kid...When I was a kid I wanted to look like this bloke, that bloke whatever, but changed my mind every day and eventually just grew out of it..but he wanted to look like Liz Tayor one day, Diana Ross the next, and had the money and power to do it, so he did it.....Sad thing is that however much people may want it to be ignored cos it isn't that important..the fact the worlds most prominent black performer turned himself white is a fecking weird thing! I mean fecking weird!!
Personally I don't think it was anything to do with him being ashamed of being black, or even wanting to be white...he just wanted to look like his idols cos he was a child...and his idols where fred astaire and liz taylor and people like that
I see it like he was a kid...When I was a kid I wanted to look like this bloke, that bloke whatever, but changed my mind every day and eventually just grew out of it..but he wanted to look like Liz Tayor one day, Diana Ross the next, and had the money and power to do it, so he did it.....Sad thing is that however much people may want it to be ignored cos it isn't that important..the fact the worlds most prominent black performer turned himself white is a fecking weird thing! I mean fecking weird!!
Personally I don't think it was anything to do with him being ashamed of being black, or even wanting to be white...he just wanted to look like his idols cos he was a child...and his idols where fred astaire and liz taylor and people like that
I believe he was always black.
Vitiligo sapped his skin of pigmentation.
Vitiligo sapped his skin of pigmentation.
I would tend to agree.
I think the reason people doubt that is becasue he had surgery on his nose and lips to make them look more caucasian before he started going white.
What is chocolate thai?
it's a quality sativa.
There was a good article about this in the Guardian a couple of days ago, by Gary Younge (who is black, by the way).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/26/michael-jackson-black-superstar-icon
From that article:
By the way, it's not so incredibly 'fecking weird'. Concerns have been raised over the massive increase in the sale of skin-lightening products in India - particularly those that bleach the skin.
Also, governments of countries in Asia have had to step in to control the number of white Hollywood stars earning millions in advertising campaigns in Asia as it was perceived to be having an effect on young Asian's self-image. I've had several ex-girlfriends who are Asian and I'd say that they often attempted to 'Westernize' themselves with their make-up. It's sad, but there is definitely an image related inferiority complex out there which makes Jackson's surgery not all that strange. It's just that he had the money to take it further than anyone else. Maybe his surgeries will become more and more common in the future as the price of them falls...
No they wouldn't, give an example, other than a few people in a forum being touchy and over PC like yourselves ...
"We want to celebrate this black man - he belongs to us - and we shared him with everybody else."
Is that your bone of contention? In fact the opinion you hold of MJ shunning the black community may be precisely why JF made that comment. To say in essence, 'He was black, but he was loved by all races'... why would that get your back up?
It doesn't get my back up, but I find it irritating. There is too much reverse racism these days, and I know for a fact that if someone made a similar comment on here they would soon be slagged off for racist comments. I've seen it happen.
I'm not PC, far from it. Nothing wrong with the comment - more the fact that it couldn't be said in reverse.
Or maybe I've spent too much time on here.
The caf microcosm, often gives a distorted view of reality due to a posters tendencies to exaggerate everything...
I don't get reverse-racism... racism is racism right? couldn't find it on wiki so I'm not sure it exists
Yes. But it makes you very patchy and it's hard to always cover that up with make up. You're better off bleeching your skin white if you can afford to, so that it's less noticeable. ie. you can peel and no one will notice it.
DutchCruijff said:
From DutchCruijff in the newbies on the subject of Jackson and his skin colour..
But he refuted bleaching his skin entirely though.
The caf microcosm, often gives a distorted view of reality due to a posters tendencies to exaggerate everything...
I don't get reverse-racism... racism is racism right? couldn't find it on wiki so I'm not sure it exists
It's not so much that, as the rigid rules regarding racism that are sometimes taken to extreme (and I include myself) in an effort to make the Caf. a non-racist community - but which can have the reverse effect because of allegations of racism when no such thing is meant.
I would like to hear peoples opinions on the man musically. Would a third thread be to much? I think it would drown here..
Thats very interesting...as is this bit which is linked on that site. Still not sure what to make of it, and of course it doesn't explain the extensive surgery, but it's very very interesting
http://mypenmypaper.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/vitiligo-between-michael-jackson-and-lee-thomas/
We all have Livvie... we all have...
That compounded the 'weird' image.
I think there was a lot more faith in plastic surgery in the early 90's - we didn't have many anti-models to show us what not to do. I'm sure that, even on a whim, Jackson could have had anything done that he wished - the idea of 'looking like somebody else' would probably be appealing to somebody with Vitiligo - it allows him not to wear make-up on his face and to hide the Vitiligo. It wouldn't surprise me if he was 'advised' to - the doctor/surgeon must have made a killing.
Just a bit of presumptive psychology.
Which was correct. Vittiligo had done most of the job. He had no choice but to even it all out, or look like a human leopard & I don't mean that in a nice way....
I have a friend who suffers from Vittiligo. Particularly prominent on his hands.
Not sure what this adds to the debate but I thought I'd throw it out there.
Not sure what this adds to the debate but I thought I'd throw it out there.
What is the nice way there Rubberman?!
Taking the subject back to point, I am a BIG fan of Michael as you can tell from other threads. But for the sake of his kids he probably "went" at the right time. His kids are around 11/12 now and were being adversely affected by his irrational behaviour (masks, isolationism, etc). They were headed for the same mental trauma as he did with his dad. I'm hoping they now grow up with some of their dad's genius and none of his lunacy. (Hopefully they won't milk it like averagely talented Julian Lennon).
They were being adversley affected by the media. The masks were there for a reason, and as far as I am aware he had stopped doing that in public now they were getting older.
And the same mental trauma? I think we can safely say none of them were regularly beaten, called ugly, nor are any of them as famous or a child prodigy as Jackson was.
To be honest, I find it hard how anyone can say they are better off without their father (Aside from a few extreme examples). They are going to be devastated and the coming weeks will be some of the toughest they will ever experience, especially as all the bullshit stories that are inevitably going to come out, come out.