Not glossing over Pogue, but not using it to criticise him as a father and label him a bad parent.
Music Michael Jackson is Dead (All general comment)
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Not glossing over Pogue, but not using it to criticise him as a father and label him a bad parent.
'kinnel Marching, if I was there I'd have shit a brick!
I did shit a brick cos I didn't know she was going to jump....after I caught he she said, "That was good, again Uncle Mike." Err, no I said! Just walk down like everyone else. Luckily her Mum and Dad didn't report me to social services.
Missed that. Did he really throw a baby down a flight of stairs? fecking hell.
Yes, but I've never said anything on the contrary. If they thought it would go away, how naive could they have been, assuming he was innocent?
Nah, I'm slandering him...
I did shit a brick cos I didn't know she was going to jump....after I caught her she said, "That was good, again Uncle Mike." Err, no I said! Just walk down like everyone else. Luckily her Mum and Dad didn't report me to social services.
it's funny, but it's not.. but then it still is, a little bit.It's not the behaviour of a good parent, that's for sure. It's mental.
Spoken like a true member of the medical profession.
Thank God you're back, Doc, this thread would lack all substance if it weren't for your insight and first hand knowledge of the man.
True that...
I've no idea.
Though for me i don't believe the allegations. And because of that I find it such a tragic story that the most gifted entertainer of all time is dead at 50 and is being spoken more about the things he may or may not have done rather than all the good things he did for hundreds of millions if not billions of people around the world.
A man who after 1993 was never able to hit the heights he did for the previous 20 or so years, for a variety of reasons.
The best really do die to young.
Hook, line and sinker...
Nah, I'm slandering him...
My lawyers are tracking you down as I type. On the subject of the baby dangling...it was a stupid spur of the moment thing to do but I am sure most parents will do some stupid things during the lifetime of their kids.
He peaked long before Dangerous Elvis, Thriller was his pinnacle, and he rode on that plateau to Bad, which is my favorite album, after Smooth Criminal which was the last single he released from Bad, he was riding on his past glories and dont get me wrong Dangerous was pretty good it and the albums that folllowed just werent as good as the ones he released in the 80s, but they were still great and well respected
I thought I made it clear that I was offering more of a personal, rather than professional, opinion actually but hey, if it sheds a wee bit of light on your fecked up obsession with me that's all good, right?
Well, at the very least we can all rest assured in the knowledge that sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber really has no positive effects on one's lifespan.
I always thought he'd lost it completely and become a recluse but I saw a video yesterday of him dancing on Swedish MTV in 2003 and he definitely still had it going on.
In fact, with having his most recent, frail, image in my mind, it's been surprising to see photos of him in the last couple of days from around 2005 and seeing how 'relatively' normal and healthy he was.
It seems like it was only the last two years which saw a really massive decline in him physically.
The more I've read about it since his death, the more incredible it seems that his management would ever have agreed to him doing those 50 shows... That would have been a challenge for a healthy person half his age.
No he didn't, he said he let a girl jump into his arms. I'm sure you'll now claim "same thing", but if you're going to sarcastically berate someone, then get your facts right!
I doubt many people do think he actually raped children. I certainly don't - he doesn't appear to have been a malicious, lecherous man. I think he just enjoyed their company, particularly as he, mentally, was somewhat child-like.
But Mockney is right. If you were the parent of a young boy, and that fifty year old bloke down the road who looked a bit weird kept spending time with him, wouldn't you think twice? Especially if it later transpired that man had convinced your boy to sleep with him in his bed, after giving him alcohol.
I'm not saying that Jackson was a rapist. But there was something more than a little off about him, and it doesn't matter if he only had the mental age of a child or not - the fact is he was a grown man socialising and sleeping with young children. That's fecked up.
No he didn't, he said he let a girl jump into his arms. I'm sure you'll now claim "same thing", but if you're going to sarcastically berate someone, then get your facts right!
Do keep up...
Nah, I'm slandering him...
This is too easy... Join me spoony, we can get Marching ostracised from the caf.
See? that's my beef. I would also not like to believe in them but I have my doubts.
From a top of a flight of stairs. What if Marching didn't catch her, what if the girl didn't jump far enough? It's far more likely for the girl to injure herself than for the baby in Jackson's case.
Very true, and as I mentioned earlier in the thread, he connected more with children and felt at ease with them.
Jackson waf found not guilty of giving children alcohol. And the situation you compare it too is nothing like what actually happened. Of course if you're walking down a street and you see a middle-aged man dangling a baby, you're going to think what the feck? But Jackson was surrounded by thousands of fans and hundreds of paparazzi; a slightly different scenario I'm sure you'll agree. And I hardly think he 'convinced' boys to sleep in his bed. You make it all sound malicious. Many have said after hours of endless fun they would just fall asleep on his bed whilst watching TV or something.
Yes, but he wasn't a grown man. He was a troubled man who's only escape from the world where he could relax was through animals and through children.
Then what happened to 'innocent until proven guilty'?
There seem to be a few posters here who are prepared to take a load of junk tabloid stories as 'proof'.
It shouldn't be forgotten that 'Wacko Jacko' is probably second only to Princess Di when it comes to selling tabloid papers. I'll bet you that the vast majority of stories about Jackson over the years were utter tripe - tabloid journalism at it's worse. They've spent years making up junk and then passing it off under 'Wacko Jacko' headlines.
He busted it out in 2001 for one of the best concerts I have ever seen on tv
Yes but Baldwin Jackson was rich and famous and had corrupted half of California to be found not guilty, didn't you know?
Then why the $22m pay off?? As I said, how could a pay off ever have been less damaging than a long court case?
Well when you only have a few years left to live why spend one of them in court
Yeah, I forgot about that. Californian 'celebrity justice'. Tell that to Phil Spector.
Hell even if you arent worht a billion why waste one year in court life is fragile and short
I thought about doing a windup thread re Marching, but realised (from Pogue's and Count's posts) that it could actually be taken seriously. Would actually be quite fcuked up if Marching's reputation got messed up by that, funny too, but fcuked up mostly.
It's too easy, of course tabloid hacks have no qualms about these things (they get paid for it ffs), so more reason to take what you get with a pinch of salt.
It's too easy, of course tabloid hacks have no qualms about these things (they get paid for it ffs), so more reason to take what you get with a pinch of salt.
A long case could have been more damaging, as it would have been in the media for as long as it went on, front page news and all that. Plus, it would have cost him a hell of a lot more than $22m. The 2005 case more or less bankrupted him .
yeah I know some of these Brits on here think that OJ is the norm here, let me tell you it aint; yeah celebs usually get off light but that is the norm everywhere unless the crime is awful. Look at Chris Brown everyone was whining about his sentence and he got thousands of hours and 5 years probation for protecting himself, and going a bit overboard on a domestic dispute.
The Jordan Chandler case was in 93/94, I think. I doubt he thought 'I've only got 15 years left to live, better make the most of them'.
The 22m pay off can surely be used to prove both sides of the argument. Either what you're insinuating is correct.
Or, you could ask why the mother and father of a child that had been sexually violated might want to forego their day in court, and chance of justice, for the sake of 22 million.
If it was my child, and I was sure he was telling the truth, I'd rather have Jackson found guilty in court. I'd also be concerned that future victims didn't suffer the same fate as my child.
Didn't Jay Leno give testimony to the court, at the later trial, suggesting that he felt that the accuser on that particular occasion was after something other than justice?
Yes, he did. And the father of Chandler also tried to sue Jackson again a few years later for more money over some petty legality or something.
And I agree, I don't have kids, but if it was my kid who had been sexually abused the last thing I would do is accept a pay off from him, I'd want him behind bars and to avoid another child in the future having to go through what my kid has.
On another note, it's easy to sit here and type that, if you were faced with that we may react differently to how we think we would.
That's a very good point. When you consider that Jackson has looked totally wrecked since that trial, you can perhaps understand why he'd have done anything to avoid the earlier one.
It's too easy for people to talk up the 22 million dollar pay off - that sum would have been small change to him at the time.
I don't think people doubting the not guilty verdict think that he actually paid off the judge, the jury, the prosecution, the appeals court, the parents and the victims. I think what's more likely is that it was a result of America's infatuation with the celebrity. You saw it at the time - people claiming he must be innocent because he's Michael Jackson, when they knew little or none of the facts. Now those facts may well have proven him innocent anyway (we don't know), but the fact is these people were willing to believe he'd done no wrong purely because he's famous.
It's the same reason OJ got away with murder, and why Arnie and Ronald Reagen were both elected into positions of power. Americans love people they see on television or in films, and will privilege them accordingly.
It's the same reason OJ got away with murder, and why Arnie and Ronald Reagen were both elected into positions of power. Americans love people they see on television or in films, and will privilege them accordingly.
They were pimping their kid, most likely. Other parents may have done it, as well. For me, they're as guilty as anyone - the greedy, filthy bastards. But I still think Mike Jackson should've cleared his name.
Mate we're talking about paedophilia, if you are a high profile celeb and a proven paedophile, being the second coming of Christ is not going to get you off....
The president got sacked for getting a blow job...
Umm actually he didnt
Yes, the English (and every other country for that matter) don't do that at all.
But that's what I mean - there was clearly muddled evidence regarding the case. Enough for the police to bring it to court, but too little for him to be convicted. Whether he was innocent or guilty doesn't change the fact that some people were obviously convinced he was one, and others that he was the opposite.
Regardless of that, though, Americans wouldn't have believed it. The evidence was inconclusive enough that they could convince themselves he was innocent. Hell, the evidence in the OJ trial was pretty damn overwhelming, but somehow he got away with it. It's because he was famous, and that was a double homicide. I won't get into whether murder or rape is worse, because this isn't the thread for that, but needless to say murder is still a pretty feckin' big deal. But they didn't want to believe he did it, and so he got away with it.