There is obviously the core of a side that can compete for automatic promotion there. He just needs to find a bit of extra quality in the market and find out why they shat the bed towards the end of the season.
Michael Carrick - Middlesbrough Manager
- Thread starter Stobzilla
- Start date
Their best players were on loan from Villa so they’re losing a bit of that core.
Oh. That's...not so good. Maybe he can beg Dracula for a renewal of their services.
Injuries did for them.
From a United perspective I could think of worse landing spots for Pellistri, Mejbri, Mainoo or Iqbal.
Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Jones, Laird, Williams or Tuanzebe ended up there either.
Surprised he hasn't taken any United lads on loan...
Same with McKenna.
Gore would benefit from working under him. Pellistri should be getting a PL loan if he's going out, but maybe Emeran or Forson (depending where gaps are in the Boro squad in AM/ wide FW)...
Hannibal or Fernandez perhaps?
Diallo and Pellistri definitely should get PL loans where possible. Hell even the two above as squad roles in the PL even maybe...
There does some to be a gap in our youth set-up currently for Championship-ready players.
Yes I've been wondering about this as well.
I reckon Carrick's a single-minded individual who is keen to not only stand on his own two feet, but also be seen to be doing so. Accepting help from his old club is probably something he'd shy away from.
McKenna hasn't got the same United Old Boy label, so I can't see it being a problem with him. Maybe there's still time for it to happen.
I know it's a complete hypothetical but if that was the case I think it'd be a bit of a daft way of looking at it.
It's about Middlesbrough and improving their chances. Shouldn't bring pride into it. Just make the best decisions. Improve the squad. It really doesn't matter how you get out of the Championship, it's a scrap.
Oh sure, but other PL clubs have youngsters available on loan. Maybe Carrick thinks they’re better than ours
lt does look like United are a lot better organised at arranging suitable loans and monitoring them once they are under way than has been the case in the recent past. I’m sure that if it’s felt that Boro is a good place to develop our youngsters, some will end up there. I just don’t see Carrick as the sort who’d expect (or want) priority treatment from his old club.
Middlesbrough lost Archer, Ramsey and Giles. So CF, LB/LWB and AM. They probably need another CM too.
Can't help but feel Carrick hasn't been backed properly in the transfer market by Boro despite doing wonders for them last season. He being his usual model professional self hasn't complained at all but some of their fans are already panicking he may walk by Christmas.
About to sell their best player (last season's Championship top scorer and player of the year) to Lens for €12 mil despite already two games into the new season, because he's in the last year of his contract and Boro can't afford his wage demand. Was outbid by other clubs for all their successful loans last season that were available for permanent transfers this summer.
So far, he signed mostly 21-22 year-olds for free or less than 1 mil, who've not done much at all in their careers (coming from the Aussie league, or from a PL team's reserves with no first team appearance and only a couple of mediocre loan spells, etc). His most expensive transfer so far (about £2 mil) has been a goalkeeper from QPR, who was near the bottom of the Championship last season and whose fans seemed quite happy to get rid of. They currently have a grand total of 1 left back in the entire squad, who was a forgotten 25-yo player shipped on loan to Aberdeen last season. Also started the season with a striking partnership of Crooks (a CM nicknamed "Tree" so you can imagine his agility ...) and Rogers (Championship record of 2 goals in 37 appearances with Bournemouth and Blackpool).
Their squad as it stands looks midtable at best (a sentiment shared by many Boro fans) unless all these cheap transfers turn out to be hidden gems. Not sure why he's still not called in any favours from us in this situation.
About to sell their best player (last season's Championship top scorer and player of the year) to Lens for €12 mil despite already two games into the new season, because he's in the last year of his contract and Boro can't afford his wage demand. Was outbid by other clubs for all their successful loans last season that were available for permanent transfers this summer.
So far, he signed mostly 21-22 year-olds for free or less than 1 mil, who've not done much at all in their careers (coming from the Aussie league, or from a PL team's reserves with no first team appearance and only a couple of mediocre loan spells, etc). His most expensive transfer so far (about £2 mil) has been a goalkeeper from QPR, who was near the bottom of the Championship last season and whose fans seemed quite happy to get rid of. They currently have a grand total of 1 left back in the entire squad, who was a forgotten 25-yo player shipped on loan to Aberdeen last season. Also started the season with a striking partnership of Crooks (a CM nicknamed "Tree" so you can imagine his agility ...) and Rogers (Championship record of 2 goals in 37 appearances with Bournemouth and Blackpool).
Their squad as it stands looks midtable at best (a sentiment shared by many Boro fans) unless all these cheap transfers turn out to be hidden gems. Not sure why he's still not called in any favours from us in this situation.
Seems like Gibson has taken his eye off the ball here, considering the position they were in last season. I think they'll struggle to make the playoffs at this rate. Silvera looks a good signing, but the left back Coulson isn't good enough and Rogers is never going to be a central forward, at least not until he matures. There are a lot of rumours about loan signings and late business but the Boro fans have been here before with the club making transfer and promotion promises then not following through.
They were potentially at risk of FFP coming down hard on them, despite their fans thinking otherwise.
They have raised their ticket prices to bring in extra cash flow as well, things are right in terms of financial sustainability.
I imagine Gibson was relying on Carrick pulling a few rabbits out of hats this season to see them through.
So if Carrick keeps them up this season his next club will be a PL one?
According to stories released by the club they are always in FFP danger, Gibson allegedly puts the maximum in every season to keep them afloat. According to the old fellar they suffered historically due to wages agreed by previous regimes but that was all supposed to have been fixed over recent seasons. At one point the club owed serious money to Gibson's company, but since 2010 when they started yo-yoing a bit they got on top of their expenditure and debt, and I vaguely remember them having a relatively large negative net spend of around £30m since 2010. There has always been a suspicion, usually repeated every season, that Gibson is trying to pull out of the club and there is no denying he has reduced the club's debt to his own company in that time, which I think was well over £100m at one point, without spending as much cash as he once did. They were mental in the transfer market when the Premier League first kicked off though, it was like fantasy football for them.
Since 2020 their net spend has been more or less zero. Not sure how far FFP goes back, was it 3 years? I have no idea of their operating costs, but you can understand the fan's doubts since transfers are usually the biggest issue in any FFP issues. Especially when the club have been telling the fans for over a decade that they were fixing the debts.
They also had a Premier League season in amongst the last 10yrs so will have had that, plus parachute payments. They didn't go daft on transfers then either.
Wouldn't go that far, they should be in and around the playoffs but might fall short. They need to resolve the Akpom situation and be active in the loan market.
I think the fans have been wringing through the finances to get to the bottom of it due to Bristol City naming them as a club in danger of FFP, but it does seem as if the last three years have been a bit of a struggle for the club, not taking into account COVID etc.
Strange, as they look to the outside as a well run club and have a big fan base, decent stadium etc.
All their problems were legacy problems and once the Premier League money stopped coming in they had to reduce expenditure (and expectation) massively.
The Bristol City thing was odd, because when Derby were in FFP trouble it was Middlesbrough who kicked up the most fuss (even took them to court), and it would be difficult to imagine them doing so if they were also in that boat.
5 defeats and 2 draws in the last 7 going into the back end of last season, including 2 defeats in 2 this season. Hopefully he gets them going again as he done an amazing job last season.
Not getting any easier for Carrick as Boro has accepted £10m bids for Chuba Akpom from Lens and Ajax.
Middlesbrough has to create a structure sustainable. It’s not an easy job for any manager thrown into it.
Akpom is in the last year of his contract so there isn’t much they can do now other than maximise returns. We’ll see how serious they are to back Carrick when they get these funds in, they have to spend them on players or they’ll struggle
Let's hope that's all it is and it's not just the owner losing interest in the football club he's owned for decades and trying to recoup some of his investment before selling.
Just seen they've got 1 point in 4 games so far this season, really hope he turns it around.
In fairness he’s had a lot of movement in his squad
Boro has never been strong defensively but they did so well last season under Carrick by outscoring their opponents most matches. This season, they just haven't got goals in that squad so they just play pretty in possession, be toothless in the final third then concede silly goals. They've lost all their top scorers and assisters from last season and replaced them with cheap youngsters. Prime example: replace Akpom (29 goals last season, sold for up to 14 mil) with Morgan Rogers (2 goals in 37 career Championship appearances, bought for 1 mil)
He's really not been backed properly this transfer window. Carrick is so professional, he'll never complain publicly but the ITK guy from the OneBoro forum who first broke Carrick's appointment at Boro last year is now saying this:
"Carrick’s already unhappy that he’s been let down and has had broken promises.".
Emphasis on bolded because I do think he has the managing chops about him.
But this is why you take every opportunity to climb up the ladder instead of doing the Caf recommendation of "building your resume" as a manager.
He should seek to mutually terminate his contract. He shouldn't soil his CV for a club that don't back him.
I can see the argument around not wanting to stagnate or have your reputation undermined by the usual vagaries of football - bad luck, other clubs around you finding an edge through money or lucky recruitment etc - but don't think it's as clear cut as just hopping into the first available 'big' job or even PL-level job per se.
You're managing large teams in pressure-cooker situations, with more complex challenges the higher up you go (from tactics to managing an international group to translating analytics into recruitment as part of recruitment process as well as to internal player development, to dealing with PR crises and generally with commercial obligations, to a range of psychological one-to-one issues) . Unless you can bring some of those skills from elsewhere, where you are going to acquire them except at a 'lower club, perhaps even a couple? A lot of that might be delegating but you still have to be able to manage those professionals (from scouts to health staff to coaches) as well as managing upwards.
With rare exceptions I'd be wary as a chairman about employing anyone to take on a PL-level outfit without at least 4 years of prior managerial experience (and too far under 40; ideally you want to balance life experience with, of course, 'energy' /physical and psychological robustness to deal with ridiculous stress).
Thanks for the explanation, must be so frustrating for him.
Common consensus amongst the Boro fans I know is Gibson just doesn’t have the desire to finance competing.
It’s not just Akpom they lost,Archer contributed goals, Giles had something like 20 assists and then even Ramsay hasn’t been replaced properly. Losing 60 g+a from any team is a massive hit.
They’ll struggle this season and shopping In the bargain bucket probably wasn’t what Carrick expected.
For the fans it’s a long saga now, every season the club Makes promises around season ticket renewal that then fail to materialise. Their net spend over the past few seasons must be over -£40m now.
He has to find a solution within the squad if the club don't have money to spend, he's got to whip his players into improving beyond their potentials.
He's got to find solution that's why Boro took a chance with him, i assume they needed someone that can improve their players and used their Academy or take other clubs Academy players on loan that fits into how he wants to play, Someone that can perfomace wonders with their team despite their limited budget.
I'm surprised he hasn't tried taking some of our Academy players on loan.
There should be no excuse for failure, if there is it only shows that's he isn't capable of Managing at the highest level.
He's got to find solution that's why Boro took a chance with him, i assume they needed someone that can improve their players and used their Academy or take other clubs Academy players on loan that fits into how he wants to play, Someone that can perfomace wonders with their team despite their limited budget.
I'm surprised he hasn't tried taking some of our Academy players on loan.
There should be no excuse for failure, if there is it only shows that's he isn't capable of Managing at the highest level.
Nice idea but do we really have mens first-team level goalscorers though in the youth ranks - I mean ones at the level that they could step up to the Championship? Maybe someone like Hugill develops into one in 2-3 years with coaching and appropriate lower-league loans, but unless he shoots up 2-3 levels overnight, he's not going to be a Championship player right now, let alone a consistent PL player in the future. The next level of potentially high-calibre forward players are all 17 year olds who still need a couple of years of u-23 games and maybe a l 1-2 loan in the interim unless they suddenly develop greater upper body strength in the space of weeks; they're also mainly wide forwards rather than finishers.
One point from five games.
Unfortunately football is a cruel industry. Can’t see him surviving much longer.
Unfortunately football is a cruel industry. Can’t see him surviving much longer.
One point from five games.
Unfortunately football is a cruel industry. Can’t see him surviving much longer.
My father had this on tv today and it was diabolical, they had a lot of chances but never looked like scoring. They get in some decent positions too, missed a couple of one on ones, they just lack any kind of threat.
Defensively both goals came from standing off, first one was a bit of a worldie but they never closed him down and the second I reckon they had 6-8 defenders in the 6yd box and not one closing the ball. It was very very poor.
Something needs to change, think Carrick will get games after the international break and Steve Gibson is known to give managers time, most managers anyway
Some rumours on their forums of a takeover bid of Middlesbrough FC from Anders Holch Povlsen, Denmark's richest man with a net worth of US$11.3 billion. Owns a lot of land in Scotland too.
Would certainly explain why Gibson was so frugal in Carrick's first summer window.
Would certainly explain why Gibson was so frugal in Carrick's first summer window.
Be interesting if Gibson sells up, he's previously turned down investment from a Chinese source because it wasn't right for the club in his opinion.