Messi?

Why cant Chelsea afford him? I am not sure how FFP is calculated but if they bought for him for 140m for example, wouldn't they make alot of that back in shirt sales?
Chelsea might not have fan base of United, Barca or Real, but Messi does. The fan boys will flock wherever he goes.
 
starman said:
Why cant Chelsea afford him? I am not sure how FFP is calculated but if they bought for him for 140m for example, wouldn't they make alot of that back in shirt sales?
Chelsea might not have fan base of United, Barca or Real, but Messi does. The fan boys will flock wherever he goes.
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How much do you think shirt sales actually make clubs?!
 
Rado_N said:
How much do you think shirt sales actually make clubs?!
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Not been online for 2 days with having the flu, soon as i do and log into the Red Cafe, who do i see, forumer accountant Rado going on about how clubs don't make any money from skirt sales (again).

Do you not get bored?
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Not been online for 2 days with having the flu, soon as a i do and log into the Red Cafe, who do i see, forumer accountant Rado going on about how clubs don't make any money from skirt sales (again).

Do you not you get bored?
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Not former, actually.

You were shown to be wrong by about four different people last time you brought this up. I can't help but notice you didn't respond to any of those posts.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Not been online for 2 days with having the flu, soon as a i do and log into the Red Cafe, who do i see, forumer accountant Rado going on about how clubs don't make any money from skirt sales (again).

Do you not get bored?
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I'm certain that clubs make very, very little money from skirt sales.
 
It's fascinating that the myth regarding shirt sales still exists.
 
United sell roughly 1.4m shirts a year, nearly twice as much as Chelsea. Now, United don't keep all of the revenue from each shirt sold. So, let's say United kept 50-70% of that revenue, how many shirts would Messi realistically sell? An extra 500,000 a year? Possible, but I highly doubt it. But even if he did, then the most United would make from that is around 16-20m. That probably wouldn't cover Messi's wages for a year.

So the shirt argument is generally a load of shite.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
United sell roughly 1.4m shirts a year, nearly twice as much as Chelsea. Now, United don't keep all of the revenue from each shirt sold. So, let's say United kept 50-70% of that revenue, how many shirts would Messi realistically sell? An extra 500,000 a year? Possible, but I highly doubt it. But even if he did, then the most United would make from that is around 16-20m. That probably wouldn't cover Messi's wages for a year.

So the shirt argument is generally a load of shite.
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I have no idea what the real numbers are.
The problem is that people go to extremes. Lets say that Messi sold $5m in extra shirts in a year, $5m is a decent chunk of money, it doesnt matter that it doesnt cover his wages the point is it helps pay some of his wages.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
United sell roughly 1.4m shirts a year, nearly twice as much as Chelsea. Now, United don't keep all of the revenue from each shirt sold. So, let's say United kept 50-70% of that revenue, how many shirts would Messi realistically sell? An extra 500,000 a year? Possible, but I highly doubt it. But even if he did, then the most United would make from that is around 16-20m. That probably wouldn't cover Messi's wages for a year.

So the shirt argument is generally a load of shite.
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You know you there are officially licensed t-shirts/books/toys and other shit with players faces on too right?

When people go on about shirt sales, they aren't just talking about match day jerseys with said players name and number on the back.
 
When Real bought Ronaldo their commercial revenue went up by around €9m if I remember right. That was the total increase in all their commercial revenue, of which shirt sales are only a small portion. They also signed Kaka that same summer.

The idea that any single player can add anything like the £100m+ being suggested is outright mental.
 
Stack said:
I have no idea what the real numbers are.
The problem is that people go to extremes. Lets say that Messie sold $5m in extra shirts in a year, $5m is a decent chunk of money, it doesnt matter that it doesnt cover his wages the point is it helps pay some of his wages.
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I agree, but the transfer (according to people on here) would cost somewhere between £150m-£200m. That's a lot of money, to say shirt sales will significantly help to reduce the cost is a little misleading.
 
Rado_N said:
When Real bought Ronaldo their commercial revenue went up by around €9m if I remember right. That was the total increase in all their commercial revenue, of which shirt sales are only a small portion. They also signed Kaka that same summer.

The idea that any single player can add anything like the £100m+ being suggested is outright mental.
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Don't be stupid. They made the Beckham money back in half an hour, or something. Easy.
 
Stack said:
How much do they make?
How much do "star" players generate in merchandise sales?
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Nobody really knows, but in comparison to TV and commercial rights it will be a tiny amount. If you had the figures for Real Madrid's worldwide shirt sales for 2009 (when Ronaldo signed) and compared them with the 2008 and accounted for the year on year increase what was going on anyway you might be able to form some sort of guess, but it's not going to be much. There's a massive market for fakes which obviously goes unaccounted for.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
United sell roughly 1.4m shirts a year, nearly twice as much as Chelsea. Now, United don't keep all of the revenue from each shirt sold. So, let's say United kept 50-70% of that revenue, how many shirts would Messi realistically sell? An extra 500,000 a year? Possible, but I highly doubt it. But even if he did, then the most United would make from that is around 16-20m. That probably wouldn't cover Messi's wages for a year.

So the shirt argument is generally a load of shite.
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I read somewhere that clubs usually earn around 10-12 Euro for each sold shirt, but it depends on the deal you made with Adidas/Nike. There's a good chance that it's less for United because the fixed amount of money you'll get from Adidas is already insane.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
I agree, but the transfer (according to people on here) would cost somewhere between £150m-£200m. That's a lot of money, to say shirt sales will significantly help to reduce the cost is a little misleading.
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Well the other point with signing of superstar players isnt just the increased revenue from shirt sales. There is also increased revenue from ticket sales, clubs advertising streams and other merchandise sales. There is surely a financial bonus thats worth something to a club when they sign a superstar player. For example when Beckham went to the US I think from memory every away game Galaxy played resulted in record home gates for the home clubs.
 
Balu said:
I read somewhere that clubs usually earn around 10-12 Euro for each sold shirt, but it depends on the deal you made with Adidas/Nike. There's a good chance that it's less for United because the fixed amount of money you'll get from Adidas is already insane.
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I don't know about the new Adidas deal but our outgoing Nike one basically gave then all the rights to our merchandising, and the club only received a very small percentage of whatever was generated. That included not only shirts, but everything the Megastore sell.
 
Messi, even if he does move, won't move in January. That's just ridiculous. You can quote me on this too.
 
Balu said:
I read somewhere that clubs usually earn around 10-12 Euro for each sold shirt, but it depends on the deal you made with Adidas/Nike. There's a good chance that it's less for United because the fixed amount of money you'll get from Adidas is already insane.
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That's probably true, considering the seller/distributor have to cover their costs. I was being optimistic, and even in an optimistic reality, it doesn't add up.

Stack said:
Well the other point with signing of superstar players isnt just the increased revenue from shirt sales. There is also increased revenue from ticket sales, clubs advertising streams and other merchandise sales. There is surely a financial bonus thats worth something to a club when they sign a superstar player. For example when Beckham went to the US I think from memory every away game Galaxy played resulted in record home gates for the home clubs.
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Old Trafford already sells out, no advantage to be gained there. Oversea tours already sell out, can't see the advantage there either.

If Hull (or someone else) signed Messi on a free transfer, they'd see one hell of an increase in ticket sales, merchandise, etc.. but United are already a global club, so the financial benefit, whatever it is, would be minimal.

On pitch performances and prize money from competitions won is about the only area I think the club would reap a reward, assuming Messi can handle rainy away days at Stoke.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
Not been online for 2 days with having the flu, soon as i do and log into the Red Cafe, who do i see, forumer accountant Rado going on about how clubs don't make any money from skirt sales (again).

Do you not get bored?
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How on earth would they make £200m on shirt sales?

The Messi rumor mills are grinding hard, but can't help notice that I've not seen any actual evidence yet... Reckon they'll get Messi the same day we get Vidal.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
That's probably true, considering the seller/distributor have to cover their costs. I was being optimistic, and even in an optimistic reality, it doesn't add up.



Old Trafford already sells out, no advantage to be gained there. Oversea tours already sell out, can't see the advantage there either.

If Hull (or someone else) signed Messi on a free transfer, they'd see one hell of an increase in ticket sales, merchandise, etc.. but United are already a global club, so the financial benefit, whatever it is, would be minimal.

On pitch performances and prize money from competitions won is about the only area I think the club would reap a reward, assuming Messi can handle rainy away days at Stoke.
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Well RM are a global club etc etc etc and when they signed Fat Ronaldo back in 2002 they broke all shirt sales records for the time (not to mention other merchandise). I think you might be underestimating the ability of someone like Messi to help a club like Utd or Chelsea (who the rumours are mostly about) to help increase interest and in turn advertising opportunities and revenue.
 
Turnip said:
How on earth would they make £200m on shirt sales?

The Messi rumor mills are grinding hard, but can't help notice that I've not seen any actual evidence yet... Reckon they'll get Messi the same day we get Vidal.
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They probably wouldnt come close but as you have shown people grab the extreme end of things. They would make a decent amount which would help make the 200m investment worthwhile.
 
IF Messi could bring in an extra £100m/year of revenue, does anyone not think the Glazers and Woodward would have been all over it by now?
 
Stack said:
Well RM are a global club etc etc etc and when they signed Fat Ronaldo back in 2002 they broke all shirt sales records for the time (not to mention other merchandise). I think you might be underestimating the ability of someone like Messi to help a club like Utd or Chelsea (who the rumours are mostly about) to help increase interest and in turn advertising opportunities and revenue.
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Yeah, but I don't trust anything Madrid say regarding shirt sales. They claimed to have made 80m back from Ronaldo's shirt sales within a few months, or some other time period as ridiuclous as that. They've probably barely even made it back by now.
 
Rado_N said:
When Real bought Ronaldo their commercial revenue went up by around €9m if I remember right. That was the total increase in all their commercial revenue, of which shirt sales are only a small portion. They also signed Kaka that same summer.

The idea that any single player can add anything like the £100m+ being suggested is outright mental.
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When Real brought Ronaldo we were the biggest club in terms of revenue and exposure. Soon after that, we were not. A player like Ronaldo and Messi can give a certain club lots of exposure which will wield profits. I don't know if they will make back the money from shirt sales, but definetly having a player like Ronaldo or Messi will greatly increase a club's exposure to the wide audience.
 
Stack said:
They probably wouldnt come close but as you have shown people grab the extreme end of things. They would make a decent amount which would help make the 200m investment worthwhile.
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I wish I knew how much they were likely to make back in shirt sales, but it would have to be a huge amount to make a dent at all in that sort of transfer fee (not to mention his monthly wage). In some way Chelsea have to make and extra £200m because he is in their team than they would have without him for him to be worth it, and I struggle to see that happening. If it wasn't such an extreme amount then it would be viable, hell even £100m might seem realistic, but £200m? Even for football it's a completely insane amount, you could fund and entire league's worth of players for that. I'm actually not saying it won't happen, but I still struggle to get my head around the maths if it does, and if English clubs are gonna start shelling money like that out we're gonna have a 2 tier league like Spain do, which will be completely uninteresting.
 
Buy out clause might be £200m but if we could get him for £150m i'd be all for it. Adidas and Turkish Airlines (our new shirt sponsors next season) would happily give us a 'donation' to fund part of it.
 
Seb22 said:
Buy out clause might be £200m but if we could get him for £150m i'd be all for it. Adidas and Turkish Airlines (our new shirt sponsors next season) would happily give us a 'donation' to fund part of it.
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Given Barca have a transfer ban so cannot buy replacements the only way I can see Messi leaving is his release clause being activated.
 
Cassidy said:
Given Barca have a transfer ban so cannot buy replacements the only way I can see Messi leaving is his release clause being activated.
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Just a thought - can they enter into swap arrangements (Cash + De gea + RVP just for example)...or can they take players on loan with an option to buy once their ban is up?
I'm not sure exactly what their options may be any how legally tight any ruling is by the time a team of lawyers have been paid a few million to paint in it an ambiguous light a possible?
 
sun_tzu said:
Just a thought - can they enter into swap arrangements (Cash + De gea + RVP just for example)...or can they take players on loan with an option to buy once their ban is up?
I'm not sure exactly what their options may be any how legally tight any ruling is by the time a team of lawyers have been paid a few million to paint in it an ambiguous light a possible?
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Apparently they are unable to register new players with the Spanish FA, so I guess not.
No swaps and no loans.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Yeah, but I don't trust anything Madrid say regarding shirt sales. They claimed to have made 80m back from Ronaldo's shirt sales within a few months, or some other time period as ridiuclous as that. They've probably barely even made it back by now.
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It is all a legend started by Perez. It's not like their shirt sales increased that much, and anyway most of the money from shirts don't go to clubs.

So, it was all bullshit.
 
Cassidy said:
Apparently they are unable to register new players with the Spanish FA, so I guess not.
No swaps and no loans.
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That's what i understood too, but now i'm thinking, they can buy a player and then register him in january 2016. That's not against the rules.
 
It's not bullshit at all, if people think signing a player like Messi will not have an increase in merchandise sales (individual and club as a whole) and new club partnership agreements then give yourself a good slap a few times to knock some sense into yourselfs.

You own a brand and you are in negotiations with Manchester United to become partners for something like £20m, you look at United's players and see these bushwackers could be the face of this partnership agreement:-

69632DD2BBD644819F340C9AF61A1857.jpg


For all the deals United have got, i bet many have pulled out.

Not so many will pull out though with this face next to their logo and holding their brand up:-


Messi.jpg
 
Sky1981 said:
Nope, but it'll get you 8 Bony, 12 17 years old Ronaldo, 15 Daley Blind, 40 Marcos Rojo, 8 De Gea or 4 Angel Di Maria, it'll get you 3 Gareth Bale, 3 Ronaldo

It's a lot of money to spend on one player
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250mil is insane money to spend on 1 player and I doubt he'd go for that much even if he wanted to leave. Once he wants to leave, he's shown he'l get what he want. Barca would have to accept the best offer on the table which wont be vlose to 250mil.

Anyways, my point was in general when it comes to transfers. Its always better for top clubs to get 2 top players than get 6 good ones when you have good squads already.
 
NoWinNoFee said:
It's not bullshit at all, if people think signing a player like Messi will not have an increase in merchandise sales (individual and club as a whole) and new club partnership agreements then give yourself a good slap a few times to knock some sense into yourselfs.
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Why are you continously and repeatedly ignoring the figures supplied from Madrids accounts from when a similar move actually happened and instead repeating the same hypothetical nonsense instead?

Even if you widen the argument to 'commercial revenue' from the original claim of just shirt sales, which is a massive difference, the figures are still extremely minor in relative terms.
 
Cassidy said:
Apparently they are unable to register new players with the Spanish FA, so I guess not.
No swaps and no loans.
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A quick look at wiki raises a question though

In the Premier League, players on loan are not permitted to play against the team which holds their registration (section 7.2 of rule M.6). Loanees are, however, allowed to play against their 'owning' clubs in cup competitions, unless they have played for their owning club in that cup during that season.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_(sports)

Which implies that the club sending out the player in loan retain the registration of the player so should Barca loan a player in they would not have to register him I assume? - if loaned with an option to buy say in Jan 2016 they would not have to register them until the option was taken?

As such I cant see what would stop them constructing any deal similar to the one we had with Falcao for a player???
 
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sun_tzu said:
A quick look at wiki raises a question though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_(sports)

Which implies that the club sending out the player in loan retain the registration of the player so should Barca loan a player in they would not have to register him I assume? - if loaned with an option to buy say in Jan 2016 they would not have to register them until the option was taken?
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The only (new) players we can add to the squad are the ones loaned out. End of.
 
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