We'll see about it this season. The fact remains Messi cannot perform outside this Barca side, but this Barca side can perform pretty well without him (Spain won the WC).
Messi vs Ronaldo|2011-2012
- Thread starter Devil_forever
- Start date
We'll see about it this season. The fact remains Messi cannot perform outside this Barca side, but this Barca side can perform pretty well without him (Spain won the WC).
Cal, if Ronaldo scores one more goal than Messi this season but creates less assists, executes less dribbles, is poorer defensively and wins less trophies (and ends up on the losing side against Barcelona again and again), will he have had a better season and still be a better player in your eyes?
No, I haven't tried to claim he was better last season, which all those things happened.
But I don't think dribbling means anything at all.
As great as Ronaldo is, Messi is so much better. He's unreal. He has so much more to his game. Ronaldo is great though.
If rooney scored as many as these two do he'd be a closer rival to messi. Ronaldo was never a playmaker or anything of that sort but if he is going to make this comparison closer then he has to combine the quality he's had on the ball in the past, take it up a notch and still keep scoring a similar amount of goals.
I wonder if rooney can reach those levels. He has show that check can score for fun (albeit for less than a full season) and that he can drop deep and create hell. Question is, can he do both.
I wonder if rooney can reach those levels. He has show that check can score for fun (albeit for less than a full season) and that he can drop deep and create hell. Question is, can he do both.
The main reason Messi cannot perform for Argentina is that Argentina is not a team, you can´t win nothing if you don´t work as a team with a good trainer. Ronaldo´s performances for Portugal aren´t good at all. Spain won the world cup because most of the team play along in Barcelona and they know each other perfectly well.
It looks as if they are
Rooney scored a shitload of goals 2 seasons ago, yet almost everyone said they preferred the old Rooney. It's very difficult to merge the two roles, and I would argue Messi is able to get so many goals because of the way Barcelona play, very compacted. Messi would have a harder time scoring that many goals in our team, although he'd still be a creative precocity
It looks as if they are
No one is (except Cal?), the prevailing opinion is that Ronaldo is a neatherthal of a player compared to Messi, which baffles me.
I agree with that. But then people rarely consider the teams people play for in these comparisons. Given that, it's exactly what Rooney would have to do. But I agree, it is easier doing that dual role for Barca. Their system allows it.
Neither cant Ozil or Di Maria or Benzema etc.
Barça are a very difficult team to play against.
If messi wins the world cup, I fully expect Cal to use the 'cold wet night in stoke' argument.
If Messi wins the World Cup in Brazil, I'll never say a bad word about him ever again.
While that's true, he had so many opportunities to run at Alves yesterday. A lot of wingers like Nani, Robben, Ribery etc would have created Barca big problems from those situations. Ronaldo, on the other hand, decided to do the kick and run routine. Every. Single. Time. It was completely brainless football that hurts he team more than it helps.
Pekerman, Basile, Maradona, Batista... Messi has worked under 4 different managers and failed to accomplish anything with his national side. Whilst we can all agree Maradona is a little out of his depth, the rest of them all had reasonable reputation before taking over Argentina. Basile & Batista have both won plenty of trophies before.
When will it cease to be his manager's fault but his inability to perform outside the Barcelona system?
Can he do it under Sabella?
As for Ronaldo, so he hasn't been consistently great for Portugal, but at least has led his team to a Euro final and a World Cup semi.
Whilst we're at it. Messi has scored 17 goals in 60 internationals? Now how poor is that?
Ronaldo has 27 in 82 games for Portugal, a better ratio despite playing most of his early games as a conventional winger, with lesser team-mates.
So Ronaldo has scored 10 goals more than Messi in an extra 22 games.
And you are holding THIS against him all this time?
'Kin hell.
And you are holding THIS against him all this time?
'Kin hell.
To be fair, while I don't agree with using simply goals to compare players, Messi's current ratio would mean him taking more than 30 games to make up those 10 goals.
No, I'm pointing out that Messi has been very poor for many years for Argentina, it's almost like he just can't play without those Barca players.
I'm not claiming Ronaldo has been great for Portugal, but certainly better than Messi has for Argentina.
Chicharito's international record, now that's amazing. 21 goals in 29 games.
no, i'm pointing out that messi has been very poor for many years for argentina, it's almost like he just can't play without those barca players.
I'm not claiming ronaldo has been great for portugal, but certainly better than messi has for argentina.
chicharito's international record, now that's amazing. 21 goals in 29 games.
bpitw
Considering those "lesser team-mates" made the Euro final and World semis.......you sure on that one?
Ronaldos played horrendous for his country(by his standards), and way worse than Messi since both have been asked to step to be defacto leader.
No, I'm pointing out that Messi has been very poor for many years for Argentina, it's almost like he just can't play without those Barca players.
I'm not claiming Ronaldo has been great for Portugal, but certainly better than Messi has for Argentina.
Chicharito's international record, now that's amazing. 21 goals in 29 games.
He's played 22 more games. No wonder
You do realize he played vital roles in both making the Euro final & WC semi, don't you?
How has Ronaldo been any worse than Messi in the last few years? Portugal lost 1-0 to the eventual champions in the WC, whilst Messi & co got destroyed by Germany.
Messi again failed to lift his team in the Copa America this past summer. Drawing with the likes of Bolivia & Columbia & losing to Uruguay.
I don't really understand why Ronaldo keeps using that tool whereas it's not really efficient.He has become a little predictable
Bow down before your master.
You do realize I didn't say he didn't, don't you?
I just correcting your wrongness on claiming the team around him then was "lesser" when it's considered Portugals golden generation.
Ronaldo looks completely withdrawn when playing for Portugal, as if he knows with that team he stands no chance of winning, although sometimes the ridiculously defensive tactics don't help. At least Messi does stuff is his equally bad Argentina, albeit they seemingly have no structure or tactic in place ever.
Figo was the only one in that generation who was still a regular by 2004, Rui Costa was on the bench most the time.
He literally ate Ronaldo for breakfast, lunch and dinner and shat him out for good measure. Have never seen Alves give so much in the way of defending in a single game before.
Meh, Ronaldo did him a couple of times. If anything Ronaldo did a decent job stopping him from going past the halfway in the first half.
Alves > Ronaldo
Do you think I'm a Ronaldo fanboy or something? Poor wumming.
Yes, defending wise definitely.
I don't think that's Ronaldo's job...
Yeah..
I mean in respect to fear of getting caught out going forward, he wasn't leaving Ronnie by himself. He did alright, kept Alves Busy and might have had another goal if Valdez didn't knock that rocket onto the bar.
but in the second half he faded and Alves had a couple of nice looking tackles on him that stood out.
Oh dear... I love ronnie boy, i always feel as if he's still one of us.
But at this moment, Messi's on a different level. If he keep thi up for a few more years he'd be in the echeleons of Pele / Maradona / Zidane
But at this moment, Messi's on a different level. If he keep thi up for a few more years he'd be in the echeleons of Pele / Maradona / Zidane
Does dribbling earn your team points?
Is football judged on how nice your footwork is?
Like I've pointed out many times, the ultimate goal is to score goals. If Messi dribbles with the ball and ends up scoring 1 out of 10 times and Ronaldo shoots from 30 yards and scores 1 out of 10, both methods are equally efficient in terms of scoring goals.