Yeah but the result comes after 90+ minutes?
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Yeah but the result comes after 90+ minutes?
The Messi vs Ronaldo Era
La Liga Winner
2009 – 10: Barcelona
2010 – 11: Barcelona
2011 – 12: Real Madrid
2012 – 13: Barcelona
2013 – 14: Atletico Madrid
2014 – 15: Barcelona
2015 – 16: Barcelona
2016 – 17: Real Madrid
2017 – 18: Barcelona
Barcelona 6 – 2 Real Madrid
Copa del Rey Winner
2009 – 10: Sevilla
2010 – 11: Real Madrid
2011 – 12: Barcelona
2012 – 13: Atletico Madrid
2013 – 14: Real Madrid
2014 – 15: Barcelona
2015 – 16: Barcelona
2016 – 17: Barcelona
2017 – 18: Barcelona
Barcelona 5 – 2 Real Madrid
Spanish Super Copa Winer
2009 – 10: Barcelona
2010 – 11: Barcelona
2011 – 12: Barcelona
2012 – 13: Real Madrid
2013 – 14: Barcelona
2014 – 15: Atletico Madrid
2015 – 16: Athletic Bilbao
2016 – 17: Barcelona
2017 – 18: Real Madrid
Barcelona 5 – 2 Real Madrid
Spanish Player of the Year
2009 – 10: Lionel Messi
2010 – 11: Lionel Messi
2011 – 12: Lionel Messi
2012 – 13: Lionel Messi
2013 – 14: Cristiano Ronaldo
2014 – 15: Lionel Messi
2015 – 16: Antoine Griezmann
2016 – 17: Sergio Ramos
2017 – 18: Lionel Messi (I'm assuming this will be the case)
Messi 6 – 1 Ronaldo
Adidas Power Rankings Best Player
2009 – 10: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)
2010 – 11: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)
2011 – 12: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)
2012 – 13: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)
2013 – 14: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)
2014 – 15: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)
2015 – 16: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 5th)
2016 – 17: Neymar (Messi was marginally 2nd, Ronaldo 5th)
2017 – 18: Lionel Messi (Ronaldo 2nd)
Messi 8 – 0 Ronaldo (Messi finished ahead of Ronaldo every season)
Pichichi Trophy
2009 – 10: Lionel Messi
2010 – 11: Cristiano Ronaldo
2011 – 12: Lionel Messi
2012 – 13: Lionel Messi
2013 – 14: Cristiano Ronaldo
2014 – 15: Cristiano Ronaldo
2015 – 16: Luis Suarez
2016 – 17: Lionel Messi
2017 – 18: Lionel Messi (I'm assuming this will be the case)
Messi 5 – 3 Ronaldo (worth nothing that Messi doesn't play as a forward now!)
Total Assists in all Competitions
2009 – 10: Messi 11 – 7 Ronaldo
2010 – 11: Messi 23 – 15 Ronaldo
2011 – 12: Messi 29 – 15 Ronaldo
2012 – 13: Messi 15 – 12 Ronaldo
2013 – 14: Messi 14 – 14 Ronaldo
2014 – 15: Messi 27 – 21 Ronaldo
2015 – 16: Messi 23 – 15 Ronaldo
2016 – 17: Messi 16 – 12 Ronaldo
2017 – 18: Messi 18 – 8 Ronaldo
Total: Messi 176 – 119 Ronaldo
Total Goals Scored
2009 – 10: Messi 47 – 33 Ronaldo
2010 – 11: Messi 53 – 53 Ronaldo
2011 – 12: Messi 73 – 60 Ronaldo
2012 – 13: Messi 60 – 55 Ronaldo
2013 – 14: Messi 41 – 51 Ronaldo
2014 – 15: Messi 58 – 61 Ronaldo
2015 – 16: Messi 41 – 51 Ronaldo
2016 – 17: Messi 54 – 42 Ronaldo
2017 – 18: Messi 43 – 42 Ronaldo
Total: Messi 470 – 448 Ronaldo
El Clasico Matches During this Time
Played 31, Barcelona Won 14, Real Madrid Won 7, Draws 10
Goals Scored: Messi 19 – 17 Ronaldo
El Clasico in La Liga and Champions League Only
Played 19, Barcelona Won 11, Real Madrid Won 4, Draws 4
Goals Scored: Messi 13 – 8 Ronaldo
Conclusion
Even looking at just raw statistics, Messi has clearly outperformed Ronaldo on a quite consistent basis. Statistics don't really tell the full story, as Ronaldo's game is absolutely geared to end product, whereas Messi plays deeper and does brilliant things all over the field that fundamentally contribute to winning games. But even so, he has been the better player statistically, and inspired Barcelona to dominate Spanish domestic football, regardless of his team-mates. In fact, he's having arguably his best and most influential season ever in what is probably the worst team he's played in, and consequently they've barely lost a game all season.
The only possible argument you can make for Ronaldo being better is that he has scored more goals in the Champions League. Even then, I certainly believe that Messi's peak performances in the Champions League have been better than Ronaldo, and he is more instrumental in Barcelona victories than Ronaldo is in Real wins. Nonetheless, there is no question that Ronaldo has been brilliant in the Champions League, and if he is fortunate then after this season he will have as many winners medals as Messi. Which one of the two of them has more winners medals in total isn't in doubt.
That's why the only people I've encountered who believe that Ronaldo is better are fans of Real Madrid or Man United. I've never encountered anyone that remotely fits the description of 'neutral' who believes that Ronaldo is a better player than Messi. Really, Ronaldo shouldn't even be compared to Messi, it should be acknowledged that he is a truly brilliant forward, one of best ever, possibly the very best ever. Ronaldo should be compared to Gerd Muller. Whereas Messi is the most complete player who has ever played the game, and certainly the most complete player today. It just so happens that he also scores 45-50 goals per season wherever you play him as well.
If he wasn't a prolific scorer then Messi would still have phenomenal passing, dribbling, balance, decision-making, control, first touch, etc, which is at least the equal of anyone that has ever played the game. But then he's scored 638 goals (and counting) as well. Whereas if you take Ronaldo's goals away, you don't have much left.
I prefer the direct/counter-attack/whatever you want to call it style that Ronaldo excel at a lot more than tiki taka.
First of all, Adidas Power Rankings Best Player?
Seriously? It's hilarious how you left out the biggest competition they both compete in because it doesn't suit your agenda.
Ronaldo already has as many CL medals as Messi, and he was the key player for the team every time. Unlike Messi who got his first one without even playing in the QF onwards.
There are numerous online polls on this topic and generally it's 60-40 in favour of Messi, do you seriously think 40% of the world support Real or United, whilst they are the 2 best supported clubs in the world... also, are there really such a thing as a neutral football fan? I could just as easily argue all the Messi supporters are Barca fans, anti-Real people and ABUs.
Do you really believe this after a decade of watching them play? You must be mad no offense man.
I'm a longtime Madrid fan, but it's really easy to see that Messi is a considerably better footballer than Ronaldo. He's a significantly better dribbler, a significantly better passer and a better finisher both from inside and from outside the box (not from far away though, Ronaldo has stronger shot, but from the edge of the box or thereabouts, Messi is deadly). He's probably the quickest player in the world, has amazing vision and pinpoint decision making. And before you make a point about Ronaldo's physical qualities, as long as we're talking about Messi has a better physique, just look at the difference in the way they ride challenges. Messi is more agile, quicker and has a higher level of balance.
Guy's a genius imo, haven't seen Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Di Stefano and the likes, but it's hard for me to imagine a player being better than him. Messi is your best playmaker, striker and winger in the world all rolled into one. Ronaldo is a world class goalscorer, but Messi is 3 times the better football player
Doesn't matter anyway. In case Barca has CL success it will be "Messi only won it again after Barca got a €300m supporting cast."
Who changed the poll?
This is abuse of power.
This is abuse of power.
Excellent, we can close this thread now.
This is some next level delusion that it's actually mind-boggling. You're talking about a player who has scored more solo goals than any other player in recorded history. You've seen him waltz through half of the Real Madrid team in a CL semi-final. Score in the CDR final by beating half the team.
Where was Xavi and Iniesta for these goals?
What's going to happen next season now Xavi and Iniesta are both gone? Is Messi going to suddenly not look like the best player on the pitch? Meanwhile Ronaldo scores most of his goals off 1 or 2 touches in the box these days.
What the actual feck
An "unbeaten run" works for Arsenal who haven't had anything to cling into for a decade... but not for/against teams that have won the league with triple digit points already
triple digit points > double digit points
3-peat (big if though) > more than half of what Barca have achieved in their history
Not sure if believable, the supposed Madrid fan who has 3 posts in over a year and suddenly decided to reply to this thread, with reasoning exactly the same as the Messi brigade (the dribbling being listed first is a dead giveaway)
Now you're arguing based on your assumption on what I'd say?
He already doesn't look like the best player on the pitch each year in the CL QF, haven't done for 3 years.
That's you watching and rating performances like a five year old just witnessing his first football match ever. "Look dad, XYZ scored the goal, he is the best player, right? Right?"
By the way, it is astonishing that you see the importance of guys like Iniesta and Xavi and rate their contribution to the game while at the same time being completely ignorant of Messi's supreme capabilities in this regard compared to Ronaldo. Messi drops deep all the time in order to help the midfield in controlling the game. And he did so in his best years as a false nine. You can find countless tiki taka moments of him (even without Xavi and Iniesta being involved). Watch the compilation above and see how many of his goals he initiated himself deep into midfield. You obviously understand the importance of these things because otherwise you wouldn't bring Iniesta and Xavi into this discussion but on the other hand Messi's dribblings and key passes are just fancy, inefficient nonsense to you. In fact, covering ground aside, Messi is probably better at what Iniesta does than Iniesta himself - and Iniesta is already an absolute master and ranks among the best midfielders ever.
You are really unbelievable. How can you not see these double standards yourself? Amazing.
There is no point in even debating with @Cal? He thinks Ronaldo is the best footballer ever because he has scored less than 10 important goals in the quarter finals and onwards in the CL.
He considers the success in the CL as why Ron is the best ever. Which is fine but then the WC is the pinnacle and Pele is the only player to win 3. So why does he rate Ronaldo above Pele?
He uses certain criteria to rate Ronaldo but ignores criteria that goes against Ronaldo, whilst at the same time ignoring criteria that is for other players.
He considers the success in the CL as why Ron is the best ever. Which is fine but then the WC is the pinnacle and Pele is the only player to win 3. So why does he rate Ronaldo above Pele?
He uses certain criteria to rate Ronaldo but ignores criteria that goes against Ronaldo, whilst at the same time ignoring criteria that is for other players.
Because the WC is no longer the pinnacle in quality, only in rarity/prestige nowadays.
There’s no reasoning with you guys if you seriously want to say Messi was the best player on the pitch when they got trashed away to PSG and Juve last year. Seriously??
Let's see if Cal can name one attribute in which Iniesta is better than Messi, should be fairly easy seeing as Iniesta has been making Messi look good over all these years...
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Being the best player on the pitch and looking like the best player in general are completely different things. Of course Messi wasn't up to his best in certain games last year but if you watch him play and don't realize he is the best among the people on the pitch I can't help you. You see it in his touch, his acceleration, decision making, passing ability etc. It is the same with guys like Modric, Marcelo, Kroos, Iniesta and Xavi. You just see that they are brillant footballers instantly once they get the ball. It used to be the same with Ronaldo but it isn't anymore.
I still wait for a response to the Iniesta/Messi part. You deliberately ignored it.
You were 'always in the camp ronaldo' which doesn't make any sense during 09-13 using your current criteria focused on winning. So it seems criteria for judging players are adjusted in whatever way to make CR look better. When winning doesn't work it's teammates. ('15 Suarez and Neymar were on fire)Now you're arguing based on your assumption on what I'd say?
says the Messi brigade who thought Ballon D’or is the best award ever when he was leading 4-1It’s about their role in the team. Messi may be able to play the Iniesta role, but he doesn’t.
He’s ultimately in the Barca side to score, that’s why he’s being played in the role he wants to.
Don't distract. So, why did you think Ronaldo was the best before 2013? Clearly your current criteria wouldn't lead to such a conclusion. If you were so result oriented back then, Cristiano would have been clearly behind Messi for you. The only explanation is you moved the goal posts.
What a bullshit. Messi's role is much, much more than goal scoring. He is playmaker and goal scorer roled into one player and it's been like this since Guardiola arrived. He always had much, much more responsibilities than scoring. Valverde himself said this season that he asked Messi to play deeper and was surprised he had no problems with it. You are oversimplifying things again.
I still don't get why people are trying to argue objectively with a subjective delusional Ronaldo stan. Aren't there more interesting topics/discussions around?
What the actual feck
An "unbeaten run" works for Arsenal who haven't had anything to cling into for a decade... but not for/against teams that have won the league with triple digit points already
triple digit points > double digit points
3-peat (big if though) > more than half of what Barca have achieved in their history
How many teams have ever gone unbeaten in a league?
Ajax, Bayern and even Madrid have done the three in a row. With star-stacked squads and luck (lot of it in Madrid's case), it's not that hard; it's a cup competition after all.
In this 3-peat, you'd have won the league once - that's not greatness, it's just a very good cup team.
Fair enough, weird argument mind you. So even if he has an average WC and Argentina somehow end up winning the tournament your opinion on him does a 180?
Haha what? Those 3 sides that you casually mentioned are like among top 5 sides ever, at worst. "It's a cup competition after all?"
Meanwhile many sides (double digit) have had unbeaten runs in the league, but even a good one like Arsenal might not make it into a top 50 ever list. At the end of the day it's in your league, not against the best of the best, and what's the point of being unbeaten as long as you had fewer points, which in another season might not have even secured your title?
No, just that I won’t argue about it any more
I don't even care about this debate but that's a ridiculous statement. I'd rather win the CL once than have an unbeaten league season, let alone thrice in a row.
The closest we'll get to a definitive answer.
Matw you need to stop with this. You really do choose the criteria to suit your argument for Ronaldo. Surely you are aware that you do that?
Well, what these attempt to do is analytically demonstrate who is playing at the highest level. I can't see why this is funny. What is funny is that there are people on this thread who refuse to accept that Messi doesn't play the same position as Ronaldo!First of all, Adidas Power Rankings Best Player?
If you look at the statistics then Messi is ahead of Ronaldo in every single category over their career. He is marginally ahead in goals, despite playing much deeper. When he did briefly play as a central striker, he set records that will probably never be beaten, and that certainly haven't been matched by Ronaldo. This is despite the fact that Messi doesn't insist on taking every penalty, isn't in the box a lot of the time for crosses to be aimed at him, is never in the box for corners. Yet he's still outscored Ronaldo. However, in other areas such as completed dribbles, key passes, assists, etc, he is miles ahead. Not surprising as Messi has better control, balance, first touch, dribbling, passing, etc, than Ronaldo, as anyone with eyes can see.
So, again, it's not surprising when Adidas make a statistical comparison of the two that Messi comes out on top every single time.
Or if you want to put it another way, here is a visual demonstration of what Messi is doing and has done:
http://www.sportbible.com/football/...for-this-season-is-out-of-this-world-20180430
I can't post the image that shows Messi is competing with Salah and Ronaldo on goals, de Bruyne on assists, Neymar on dribbles, Ozil on chances created, and Dybala on free-kicks, while having the heatmap of a midfielder, but you can look it up if you want.
Firstly, I don't have an agenda. I just believe that Messi is a significantly better player than Ronaldo (who is still a truly great player), and that this can be easily demonstrated.
Secondly, I didn't leave out the Champions League, I said this:
I fully acknowledged the Champions League, and in fact stated that the only argument you could possibly make for Ronaldo being a better player is that he has performed well in the Champions League. Which is the argument that you've just made, while also saying that I ignored it.
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but this is a Manchester United fansite. Just so there's no confusion going forward, that's why it's called Red Cafe. It's because Manchester United play in red. It's not a reference to Communism.
I'm sure there is some truth in this, but speaking from a personal perspective, I certainly don't support Barcelona. I wouldn't even really say I'm a football fan, I'm a fan of all sports, and I just like to see them played at the highest level possible. That's why I watch every Messi game that I can. When he's gone and when Barcelona are no doubt struggling because they don't have his genius any more, I'm sure I'll watch them a bit, but they won't hold the same interest for me. I wouldn't say I was ever a Real Madrid fan, but the Galacticos team was certainly watchable. I still watch them sometimes now, but they're nowhere near as watchable, because they're nowhere near as good.
Also, I'm not a United fan, but I used to live in Manchester, and I've seen Ronaldo play in the flesh for United, on the Stretford End, about 30-40 times. Which is more, I surmise, than most people on here have done. The difference is that I'm objective, so I'm obviously going to observe that Messi is better, as he has a far superior skillset to Ronaldo, and, as I've just shown you, has outperformed him in every conceivably way.
That's not a criticism of Ronaldo, who is a remarkable player. Messi is just a freak. We will see, and have seen, plenty of players like Ronaldo. The chance that we'll see someone like Messi, who tops every statistical category possible, while having the skilset of Maradona, Zidane and Figo rolled into one, but also scores 45 goals per season from the number 10 position(!)...is not high. That's why I watch every Messi game, because I probably only have another 45ish years left on the planet, maybe 55 if I'm lucky, and I won't see anyone like Messi again.
Haha what? Those 3 sides that you casually mentioned are like among top 5 sides ever, at worst. "It's a cup competition after all?"
Meanwhile many sides (double digit) have had unbeaten runs in the league, but even a good one like Arsenal might not make it into a top 50 ever list. At the end of the day it's in your league, not against the best of the best, and what's the point of being unbeaten as long as you had fewer points, which in another season might not have even secured your title?
By not that hard, I mean relative to going unbeaten. Winning three in a row is remarkable but this year's final will be contested by third in england vs third in spain - for sure, they're among the best in Europe but definitely not 'the best of the best'.
I'd take the CL too - mainly because of United's relatively poor record in the competition. My point is winning the league unbeaten is a remarkably difficult achievement, which is why it's so rarely been done, and in the context of this debate matters because Messi has been critical in making it happen.
PS: Just realized, we all may have to adopt this line of thinking in case the dreaded 6-times happen
Not sure if believable, the supposed Madrid fan who has 3 posts in over a year and suddenly decided to reply to this thread, with reasoning exactly the same as the Messi brigade (the dribbling being listed first is a dead giveaway)
Now you're arguing based on your assumption on what I'd say?
I don't want to look like clueless from the beginning by claiming something stupid.
It's clear as day who is the better player. I don't even think he has been the best player in Madrid over the past years.
On what assumption I'd say that ?
I've watched 90% of his games since he arrived, and aside from 2009-10 I don't think he ever came close to 40% of Messi's quality as a player. Its not even about who was more decisive in terms of goals over the course of the season, it's about the pure quality of football on display, Messi being much superior. Say what you what about Ronaldo's movement, eye for goal and durability, Messi is something much more than a normal footballer. He's 3 players rolled into one.
Lot of statistics when you only need to watch them play a few games to notice one scores a lot of goals and the other does everything a player can do better than the rest.
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You don’t seriously think the WC is higher quality than the CL, do you?
so the world is blind (the landslide Ballon D’or win) and you’re the only one who knows football.I’ve said many times I can accept some people think that Messi is better, but to claim Messi is MUCH superior nowadays is nothing more than fanboiism.
Funny how all those things just contribute to CL QF exits every year.
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