Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc. An all round performance. Ronaldo has whole games where he does nothing but scores a crucial goal. It’s been like that for years now. The difference is that Ronaldo scores nearly every game whereas Hazard has entire seasons where he can’t be bothered. If Hazard was as consistent as Ronaldo, do you know who he’d be? He’d be Messi.
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Proving that none of that matters much when you can't produce the end product to go along with it.

In any case, if Ronaldo couldn't do all these things you mention then he wouldn't even be in these conversations anyway. Peak Ronaldo was all you describe Hazard as, but much better. Think of it as Gareth Bale's physicality combined with Neymar's flair and Haaland's goal hunger. He didn't have the touch of a wizard, but he more than made up for it in every other area.
 
Ronaldo is a great player and physical specimen.

A true athlete and advertisement for hard work and dedication.

Messi is just a godlike talent and ability, a goal scorer the like of which we have never seen before who also happens to be one of the most creative players of all time.

Cant remember the stat but to show the level creatively Messi operates at, for Kevin De Bruyne to match Messi's numbers at the same age he would need to average something like 40 assists a season for the next 4 years.

Messi is for me the best of all time and the numbers he puts out are truly remarkable.

Take nothing away from Ronaldo, a phenomenal goal scorer and player but as a talent and to watch Messi is superior in my view.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc. An all round performance. Ronaldo has whole games where he does nothing but scores a crucial goal. It’s been like that for years now. The difference is that Ronaldo scores nearly every game whereas Hazard has entire seasons where he can’t be bothered. If Hazard was as consistent as Ronaldo, do you know who he’d be? He’d be Messi.
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"It’s been like that for years now", Right, It been like that since Ronaldo was older than current Hazard is.

I feel like sometimes Ronaldo is victim to his own longevity, Between 06-15 Ronaldo was world class chance creator, Statistically. Between 09-14 Only Messi created more chances than him in La Liga from *open play* (I feel like this is very important thing to note, Many elite creators boost their stats by taking corners or non-direct freekicks, Ronaldo doesn't take those since 2006), The gap was only 4 chances for those who wonder with Messi playing more games. Ronaldo not only was very involved in games in his prime but i hold him as one of if not the most dominant player i've ever seen.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc.
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Ronaldo at his best can do this too. At his best he can also score free kicks and long range golazos both of which Hazard isn’t nearly as capable at.
 
shamans said:
I agree with you, I have no problem with anyone who says Messi is better than Ronaldo but there's this sub section of Messi fans who underrate Ronaldo purely because of their warped image of football and what matters more. So much so that Neymar is rated higher than Ronaldo. I've noticed this with quite a few on here.

In fact, @Zehner once posted his all time top ten player list somewhere and no surprise it was all dribblers and the same type of players. It's okay to have that preference -- my personal preference is a player like Scholes who can ping balls from deep and dictate the game, but when it comes to rating players it can cloud your judgement. Scholes is my favorite player but I would not say he is a better footballer than Ronaldo.

Actually, that's another good question for @NasirTimothy -- Scholes is consistent, and well recognized as one of the most skillful guys in training. Is he a better footballer than Ronaldo as well then?

Anyway a lot of them simply haven't seen Ronaldo play consistently for 90 minutes. This idea he's some Chicharito type goal scorer who gets on the end of the crosses is pretty silly.
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Why do you assume people haven’t seen him play? We’ve all seen him play. I’ve seen him play live and seen him play on TV. There’s nothing we’ve missed.

here’s the best way to look at it. When a player receives the ball, there are 3 things they can do with it and therefore 3 main skills

1. Dribble
2. Pass/playmake
3. Shoot/finish

ALL OF THESE SKILLS ARE IMPORTANT and your level of mastery of the 3 determines how good you are. There’s no point in downgrading dribbling and saying it doesn’t matter, because it does. It always has and it always will.

Now to my mind, there are only 2 players in history that were elite scorers, elite passers/playmakers, elite dribblers and consistent performers throughout their entire careers. They are Pele and Lionel Messi. I think Pele is the greatest player of all time and Messi is second.

Maradona has a claim to be second or even first because he was an elite dribbler, an elite passer and an elite scorer early in his career (because he had to be), but he became more of an orchestrator as he began to play with teammates that could score goals. He was a consistent performer for about a 10-12 year period but he tailed off a lot at the end due to his drug use and general lifestyle. What he has over Messi though is his success with lesser teams and his domination of the 86 World Cup, probably the greatest tournament performance of all time. So he could be second place as he nearly fits the criteria. In fact any one of those 3 could be the GOAT and they are the 3 that are usually chosen by knowledgable people.

There’s also Johan Cruyff, who was strong across the board but not necessarily a model pro.

Ronaldo early on was doing all 3 at a good to very high level but then became more of a penalty box player for a long time. For me, the GOAT has to demonstrate complete mastery of all the skills on a consistent basis across the entirely (or a large portion) of their career. That’s just my opinion, other people can believe whatever they want, it’s all gravy.
 
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He'sRaldo said:
Proving that none of that matters much when you can't produce the end product to go along with it.

In any case, if Ronaldo couldn't do all these things you mention then he wouldn't even be in these conversations anyway. Peak Ronaldo was all you describe Hazard as, but much better. Think of it as Gareth Bale's physicality combined with Neymar's flair and Haaland's goal hunger. He didn't have the touch of a wizard, but he more than made up for it in every other area.
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There’s a couple of players who did have that and were as consistent as Ronaldo. I’d rank them above him.
 
MrEleson said:
Ronaldo at his best can do this too. At his best he can also score free kicks and long range golazos both of which Hazard isn’t nearly as capable at.
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He could. I’d never have him down as a great playmaker though. Not through the middle, pulling strings.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc. An all round performance. Ronaldo has whole games where he does nothing but scores a crucial goal. It’s been like that for years now. The difference is that Ronaldo scores nearly every game whereas Hazard has entire seasons where he can’t be bothered. If Hazard was as consistent as Ronaldo, do you know who he’d be? He’d be Messi.
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
NasirTimothy said:
There’s a couple of players who did have that and were as consistent as Ronaldo. I’d rank them above him.
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Aye and that's called personal preference.

In the same vein, I could say Messi never had the physicality of a beast like Ronaldo. The thing is, he didn't need it because his playstyle (and that of the whole of Barcelona) was catered to to his maximizing his strengths, and subsequently his output. That you prefer his touch over Ronaldo's superior qualities, is simply personal preference when at the end of the day they have similar output and achievements playing in the same era.

Messi's style of dribbling, while very technical, isn't my preference; I prefer the flair of a Neymar, R9, or CR7. That doesn't mean that I can simply dismiss that attribute and call it unimportant, when he has consistently used it to change games and impact the bottom line of football. And the exact same goes for Ronaldo.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hilarious. What key tenet does it expose, pray tell?

By the way, the answer to your question is Hazard. His best game will involve an all round performance. Ronaldo’s best game will involve goals (assuming that you are talking about Ronaldo at the peak of his Madrid success and not Ronaldo at United the first time round). But Hazard’s best game happens once in a blue moon.
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Yeah I'm done here. I know you wanted logical posts and all but I can't be dragged into such useless arguments. This here is where you have exposed yourself where you believe Hazards top game is better than Ronaldo's top game -- you have a complete lack of understand at what Ronaldo does and what he's good at.

You assume players like Hazard and Messi can do what Ronaldo does but thy cannot. They have their own strengths -- Messi took that strength to the next level which is why he is probably three times the player Hazard will ever be but Ronaldo is a different type of player who excels at different strengths that Messi does not have.

If you can't understand this, there is no point for me to argue.
 
shamans said:
Yeah I'm done here. I know you wanted logical posts and all but I can't be dragged into such useless arguments. This here is where you have exposed yourself where you believe Hazards top game is better than Ronaldo's top game -- you have a complete lack of understand at what Ronaldo does and what he's good at.

You assume players like Hazard and Messi can do what Ronaldo does but thy cannot. They have their own strengths -- Messi took that strength to the next level which is why he is probably three times the player Hazard will ever be but Ronaldo is a different type of player who excels at different strengths that Messi does not have.

If you can't understand this, there is no point for me to argue.
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Read my other post re Messi, Maradona and Pele to understand what I’m saying
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc. An all round performance. Ronaldo has whole games where he does nothing but scores a crucial goal. It’s been like that for years now. The difference is that Ronaldo scores nearly every game whereas Hazard has entire seasons where he can’t be bothered. If Hazard was as consistent as Ronaldo, do you know who he’d be? He’d be Messi.
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:lol:

This is complete nonsense.

Hazard is far worse than Messi as a goal-scorer. They're not even close.

It's not even about consistency. Hazard simply doesn't possess the ability to do what Messi does.

The most goals Hazard scored in a season was 22(at Lille). Messi has 13 seasons in which he scored more goals than that. The lowest tally being 31.

Hazard's dribbling is very good, but it's different from Messi's too. Messi's dribbling actions will result in more key actions leading to goal-threatening actions. Hazard's is different. His successful dribbles don't lead to goal-threatening actions near as much. His dribbling doesn't have the efficacy that Messi does.

I won't even get into the creative passing differences. It's ludicrous to even compare. Hazard is a good passer, but Messi is levels above him in creative passing. He is up there with Maradona, Laudrup, etc in final 3rd passing genius. Hazard is nowhere near that.

If you think the only difference between Messi and Hazard is consistency, I don't even know what to say.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc. An all round performance. Ronaldo has whole games where he does nothing but scores a crucial goal. It’s been like that for years now. The difference is that Ronaldo scores nearly every game whereas Hazard has entire seasons where he can’t be bothered. If Hazard was as consistent as Ronaldo, do you know who he’d be? He’d be Messi.
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Dear God, there I was defending Ronaldo meanwhile you took a massive crap on Messi negating him to a dribbling merchant and nothing else.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Read my other post re Messi, Maradona and Pele to understand what I’m saying
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I read that post, and I've read enough of your posts and they are held on some really odd beliefs.

  • Hazard at his best is better than Ronaldo at his best
  • A consistent Hazard is Messi
Not only do you clearly miss Ronaldo's strengths, you also are missing Mess's! Which explains why you think so low of footballers who aren't of the same mold.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
:lol:

This is complete nonsense.

Hazard is far worse than Messi as a goal-scorer. They're not even close.

It's not even about consistency. Hazard simply doesn't possess the ability to do what Messi does.

The most goals Hazard scored in a season was 22(at Lille). Messi has 13 seasons in which he scored more goals than that. The lowest tally being 31.

Hazard's dribbling is very good, but it's different from Messi's too. Messi's dribbling actions will result in more key actions leading to goal-threatening actions. Hazard's is different. His successful dribbles don't lead to goal-threatening actions near as much. His dribbling doesn't have the efficacy that Messi does.

I won't even get into the creative passing differences. It's ludicrous to even compare. Hazard is a good passer, but Messi is levels above him in creative passing. He is up there with Maradona, Laudrup, etc in final 3rd passing genius. Hazard is nowhere near that.

If you think the only difference between Messi and Hazard is consistency, I don't even know what to say.
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You lack reading comprehension.
 
shamans said:
I read that post, and I've read enough of your posts and they are held on some really odd beliefs.

  • Hazard at his best is better than Ronaldo at his best
  • A consistent Hazard is Messi
Not only do you clearly miss Ronaldo's strengths, you also are missing Mess's! Which explains why you think so low of footballers who aren't of the same mold.
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Not odd. Just different from yours. Which are coloured by bias. Mine aren’t
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc. An all round performance. Ronaldo has whole games where he does nothing but scores a crucial goal. It’s been like that for years now. The difference is that Ronaldo scores nearly every game whereas Hazard has entire seasons where he can’t be bothered. If Hazard was as consistent as Ronaldo, do you know who he’d be? He’d be Messi.
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Again, you have a major blind spot to Ronaldo and his top games.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Not odd. Just different from yours. Which are coloured by bias. Mine aren’t
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If I'm biased, I am biased towards Ronaldo -- but I'm even defending Messi at this point. For you to say Messi is basically a consistent Hazard just proved what I was trying to prove for several posts now -- you just overrate dribbling. Doesn't matter what kind of dribbling or to what end, you just put way too much value in dribbling.

So much so you're not belittling Messi and I have no bias towards Messi but that's just dumb.
 
NasirTimothy said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1476988-data-claims-eden-hazard-is-the-most-similar-player-to-lionel-messi?amp
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:lol: Are we going full circle? The reason I brought up Hazard was his style of dribbling and to prove a point that it's not that such a player by nature is inherently better than a player like Ronaldo. Why are you now sharing this link? You said the only difference is consistency and a consistent Hazard not only bests Ronaldo but is basically Messi :wenger:
 
shamans said:
:lol: Are we going full circle? The reason I brought up Hazard was his style of dribbling and to prove a point that it's not that such a player by nature is inherently better than a player like Ronaldo. Why are you now sharing this link? You said the only difference is consistency and a consistent Hazard not only bests Ronaldo but is basically Messi :wenger:
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Read it
 
NasirTimothy said:
Read it
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It’s not exactly the most comprehensive read. All it gives is a list of factors and then says Hazard beats Messi in a trilogy of said factors. Thanks for the completely pointless and unnecessary insight though!
 
NasirTimothy said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1476988-data-claims-eden-hazard-is-the-most-similar-player-to-lionel-messi?amp


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.givemesport.com/1476988-data-claims-eden-hazard-is-the-most-similar-player-to-lionel-messi?amp
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Likeness to a certain player is irrelevant to the point you made.

You keep deflecting from your original point.

Do you honestly believe that if Hazard was more consistent, he'd be equivalent to Messi?
 
NasirTimothy said:
Hazard at his best would score a goal, create off the dribble, create with playmaking etc etc. An all round performance. Ronaldo has whole games where he does nothing but scores a crucial goal. It’s been like that for years now. The difference is that Ronaldo scores nearly every game whereas Hazard has entire seasons where he can’t be bothered. If Hazard was as consistent as Ronaldo, do you know who he’d be? He’d be Messi.
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Ronaldo, not even at his absolute best, won the Ballon d'Or as an all-round attacking winger. If you're going to act like you've got the objective truth to everything every time you post it would help if you didn't post such absolute drivel. It's hilarious to read, though.
 
The funny part is that he's managed to underrate both Messi and Ronaldo to hilariously prop up Hazard.

Both of them probably have 10 seasons at least better than Hazard's best season.
 
Red Stone said:
Ronaldo, not even at his absolute best, won the Ballon d'Or as an all-round attacking winger. If you're going to act like you've got the objective truth to everything every time you post it would help if you didn't post such absolute drivel. It's hilarious to read, though.
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So what was his absolute best if not that period then? I’d be interested to know. Seeing as I’m talking ‘absolute drivel’…..
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
The funny part is that he's managed to underrate both Messi and Ronaldo to hilariously prop up Hazard.

Both of them probably have 10 seasons at least better than Hazard's best season.
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Again, you lack reading comprehension. Where did I talk about Hazard’s ‘best season’?
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Likeness to a certain player is irrelevant to the point you made.

You keep deflecting from your original point.

Do you honestly believe that if Hazard was more consistent, he'd be equivalent to Messi?
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No two players are exactly the same but Hazard has been deemed to be more similar to Messi than 70,000 other players. So yes, I don’t think it’s odd to say that if he was a more consistent performer, he’d be ……similar to Messi. Maybe not as good, but much closer than he actually is. This is nothing weird if you actually read what I’m saying.

https://www.90min.com/in/posts/6372...similar-to-lionel-messi-out-of-71-600-players
 
NasirTimothy said:
No two players are exactly the same but Hazard has been deemed to be more similar to Messi than 70,000 other players. So yes, I don’t think it’s odd to say that if he was a more consistent performer, he’d be ……similar to Messi. Maybe not as good, but much closer than he actually is. This is nothing weird if you actually read what I’m saying.

https://www.90min.com/in/posts/6372...similar-to-lionel-messi-out-of-71-600-players
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Now you've dropped him a level after you said before he'd practically be Messi.

The issue here is that you apparently think the main difference between the 2 is consistency.

There is plenty of data that completely refutes that point. I mean even from watching the two, Messi is a different league when it comes to ability.
 
Pronewbie said:
To get the exclusives from the agents / clubs, they have to do their part and peddle the PR spin too. That's how media relations with corporations work. I'd rather listen to the ex-United players and staff and when someone like Rio who has actually spoken to Ronaldo about this dismisses this out of hand I'd take his word more seriously.

Rio Ferdinand EXCLUSIVE: Cristiano Ronaldo called me - YouTube
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No because Rio will peddle the narrative as will Ronaldo and the PR to make it look like some dream move. Romano is tier 1 by almost every single club and regarded universally as one of the best transfer journos in football.
 
NasirTimothy said:
So what was his absolute best if not that period then? I’d be interested to know. Seeing as I’m talking ‘absolute drivel’…..
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The hat-trick of Champions Leagues was when he was at his best, and his 16/17 run was the peak of that period. The fact that you dismiss Ronaldo's "top performance" as just a couple of goals and not much else tells me you're either blinded by your hatred of Ronaldo, and if so I'm assuming it's because he's actually challenging your precious Messi for the GOAT title, or you simply haven't seen him play.

Either way, you're wrong, which makes your cock-sure style of posting that much more entertaining.



Not a bad reel for a tap in merchant. Dribbling, chance creation, goals and assists galore.

Oh yeah, and he did that when he was older than the now washed up Hazard.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Now you've dropped him a level after you said before he'd practically be Messi.

The issue here is that you apparently think the main difference between the 2 is consistency.

There is plenty of data that completely refutes that point. I mean even from watching the two, Messi is a different league when it comes to ability.
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Well he would practically be Messi, I dropped him a level for your benefit because you seem to hate the idea so much.

Do you seriously think that an Eden Hazard that performed superbly week in and week out, League and CL for a period of 10 or more years would not have multiple Ballon D’Ors? If not, why not?
 
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