Friendlies are not competitive by definition, especially those non official one . Winning or losing won’t affect their league standing, nor does it affect their trophy count.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
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The issue in your thinking though is Messi is not just an elite goal-scorer like Ronaldo, he is an elite goal-scorer + elite play-maker, that's a huge difference. Like many Ronaldo fans, you are comparing them as if they are both only elite goal-scorers and only look at their goal numbers (the funny thing is, even in that, Messi has a better goal ratio)... Only one can be compared to the such geniuses of the game as Maradona, Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rivaldo, Zico, Platini, Cruyff, Laudrup, Xavi etc. in terms of creativity, vision etc. and that's Messi...
Ronaldo's records are all about his goals and even in that Messi has a better ratio than him overall as I said.. Messi without goals is still a top 3-4 greatest player ever, and you know what Ronaldo would look like without goals... Very few people would dare to say Ronaldo is greater than Maradona though Maradona scored way less, has less goal-scoring records.. Messi has won the La Liga best player award 6 times, a record, vs Ronaldo's 1 in 9 years (which is embarrasing tbh, this is the same number as Griezmann has) when La Liga was the best league.. He has won the Pichici trophy a record of 5 times (now it is 8) vs Ronaldo's 3 in 9 seasons.. Messi is on his way for his 7th Ballon D'Or (another best player award), a record, vs Ronaldo's 5..When he was just 25, he already was a legend with 4 Ballon D'Ors, a record at that age..Messi has won the golden boat award 6 times, another record.. He scored the most goals in a calendar year (91 in 2012), another record...Has the most MOTM, another record..
I can go on listing all other records of Messi, goal records really tell just a part of Messi's story.. As one of the posters said before, for Messi, goals are just the cherry on top of the cake, and the cake is his creativity, vision, dribbling, playmaking skills etc which makes him the greatest ever for most and watching him so much fun unlike Ronaldo who has to be spoon fed in order to enter the scene in a game..
In terms of international careers, individually, Messi was chosen as the best player in in 2 Copas (a record) and 1 WC vs Ronaldo's big "0".. Ronaldo had zero contribution in the final vs France in EC 2016 where Portugal had the easiest path ever not facing any top European teams such as Holland, Germany, Italy, England, Spain along the way.. Ronaldo was not even the best player for Portugal, he himself that Pepe should have been chosen as the best player of the tournament.. That EC winning Portugal team could not even go beyond the group stage in 2014 WC being left behind the mighty USA, they lost to Chile in 2017 in Confederations Cup and lost again to a SA team in 2018 WC losing against Uruguay, so I have no idea what makes you look down on COPA teams especially when Argentina won COPA beating Brazil in Maracana (not many events in the football world can get any bigger than that)..
The big moments he steps up argument to me is BS, sorry just like the BS mentality argument, Ronaldo was completely dominated in La Liga in 9 years again winning the best player award only once. His Juve adventure in CL was a huge failure losing against teams like Lyon, Ajax, Porto . He was brought to Juve to help fix Juve's chronic underperformance issues in the CL finals (Juve played 2 CL finals in 3 years prior to his arrival), yet, with him, Juve could not even go beyond the QFs in three years in the CL..I cannot also see where exactly he stepped up in big moments in tournaments with Portugal with all the failures I listed above including this year with Portugal in EC which was easily a top 4-5 side in the EC..
With Real, he has been a ghost in most CL finals,. .Ronaldo fans use his great performances in CL in the QFs and SFs use it as a measure for his clutchness, yet completely ignore his underperformance in the CL finals, see below...
Ramos is easily the best CL finals performer and the most clutch player for Real despite being a defender, followed by Bale..
2014 CL final: against Atletico.. Ramos scores at 90’ making it 1-1. Bale and Marcelo make it 3-1. Ronaldo scores a penalty goal at 120’ celebrating it as if he won the game himself and was the hero of the game though he was largely invisible.
2016 CL final: against Atletico.. Again, Ramos scores the 1st goal , Atletico equalizes after missing a penalty with Griezmann. Real wins on penalties.
2017 CL final: against Juventus, the only game out of 4 CL finals where Ronaldo was key scoring two goals.
2018 final: against Liverpool.. Again Ramos, injuring Salah (probably the most important player for Liverpool in that game), then Karius decides to get involved with Bale scoring two goals. Ronaldo is invisible as usual. Bale, Karius, and Ramos had way more influence in that game than any other player in both sides.
Finally, he has to be grateful to Terry in the CL final against Chelsea, as he would be remembered for his penalty miss in this final and not his win...
Johan Cruyff
“Messi will be the player to win the most Ballons d’Or in history. He will win five, six, seven. He is incomparable. He’s in a different league.”
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/201...rophecy-about-lionel-messi-and-the-ballon-dor
Cruyff said that back in 2012, the guy had some vision..
“Messi will be the player to win the most Ballons d’Or in history. He will win five, six, seven. He is incomparable. He’s in a different league.”
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/201...rophecy-about-lionel-messi-and-the-ballon-dor
Cruyff said that back in 2012, the guy had some vision..
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To be fair, by 2012 Messi has already won 4 Ballon D'or (or going to win his 4th), and he was only 25. Its not that difficult to predict he could go on to win his 5th, 6th or even 7th.
Ronaldo is 36 and joined a club that’s not the best in the best league in the world.
Messi, 34, joined the best club in a weak league.
Messi, 34, joined the best club in a weak league.
Call me childish, call me a baby, I don't care 
I just changed my vote to Ronaldo. Messi who ?
I just changed my vote to Ronaldo. Messi who ?I think Messi is going to win the CL with that other shower in what will be another poor year for the competition. It’ll be us Chelsea PSG and city in the semis. Big Money doing the talking. I’m just glad we will be in with a shout again.
Longevity means something. This last stint with us will tell us a lot. Secure a league title or a Champions League and around 50+ goals over the next 2 years. I think Ronaldo edges it.
Not that we haven't been absolutely blessed to have 2 such talents at the same time. What a period for football the last 20 odd years have been.
Not that we haven't been absolutely blessed to have 2 such talents at the same time. What a period for football the last 20 odd years have been.
Us vs. PSG in the final with all the sub-plots involved in that would be absolutely epic.
I think if they lose Mpabbe they aren't favourites. I'd say that currrently as well although the squad is strong I'd fancy Us, Chelsea, City, Liverpool and Bayern to knock them out.
So an international friendly for example is not competitive? The teams are not trying to win? Please don’t be ridiculous.
I think you are using the term ‘competitive’ as in ‘in a competition’ (which friendlies obviously are not) to suggest that the games were not ‘competitive’ as in hard fought. They were.
By the way, do we not count the goals that are scored in international friendlies because they were not part of a competition?
Wow
I'm so happy that Ronaldo come back to our club but I still remained firm in my belief that Messi is the GOAT and better player. But if and this is a big if, borderline on impossible - if Ronaldo comes back and lead us to the PL and CL title, then Ronaldo should be regarded as the GOAT and the debate is over because that is what GOAT do right? They single-handedly lead a team that is past its best and bring them back to their glory days.
43% Ronaldo, people must be bitter from the times Messi ripped us.Ironically, Ronaldo was much closer to Messi individually when Messi won his Ballon d'Ors. The Cristiano who won three CLs in a row had nothing on Messi. Terrific scorer but not world class anymore as a creator
I love Messi and I think he is better. But let's enjoy both
yes, as an overall player the battle was closer between 09-14, I wonder how history would've changed if madrid were the side to win titles back in the days, I remember watching both twice a week and genuinely couldn't tell which one was better, granted i thought Messi was for the most time but in many others Ronaldo came in front. In a way Ronaldo physical prime years are extremely underrated in historical perspective largely because he was outshone by greater teams, not necessarily better players (At least not justifying losing 4 consecutive ballon d'or during that time imo, The gap was much smaller individually). But i rate zidane ronaldo as greater player than any version of ronaldo, Greatness ≠ Ability for me.
Club friendlies and international friendlies isn’t the same. Yes they are both not competitive by definition, but these days international friendlies are still regarded as official games, player don’t get to call up to their country often, and there are only very few of them every year, hence the quality is still there, it’s more about representing your country and trying to impress the manager in order to get called up for upcoming major tournament too. Back then there were over 30-40+ club friendlies a season, they were played only for exhibition or even fitness purpose, and they are not official games and means nothing to the team/player standings at all, they can feck it up without any consequence. Hence its not the same.
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I remember few years back when Ronaldo is making huge impact in winning CL (and Euro?) It’s 50% Ronaldo, but the mods here went on to lock the thread and not allow any more voting In order to protect Messi reputation. It’s quite a disgrace with mods intervention/manipulation, but anyway, Messi did slowly earn back the votes a year later when he had a better season (mods reopened the votes for Messi), and fair enough his performances and success later earns him back more votes.
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It is a poll on the internet, hardly warrants using the words disgrace and manipulation. I bet this poll keeps you awake at night with dread.
moronic take, united were second in the league last year and Ronaldo didn’t give a damn about his united legacy until Fergie stepped in. Ronaldo would’ve gone to psg if psg had wanted him. He’s just as much a mercenary as any other footballer
No, that was in Jan 2012, right before he was awarded his 3rd Ballon D'Or..
Not sure about the exact timeline when Cruyff made the prediction, but 2011 Ballon D'or was awarded on 9 Jan 2012. If Cruyff made such prediction in 2012, just few days before the ceremony, fair play to him. But I am sure at that point everyone would know Messi is going earn his 3rd Ballon D'Or anyway, as Messi has won by 47%, with 2nd place Ronaldo only getting 21% vote, so its not a close one that year. He was also only 24 back then too with everyone know he is winning his 3rd, so still its not such a difficult prediction to make (to predict he could win 2, 3 or 4 more in future)
But imagine, if someone in 2012 predict Ronaldo would win 5 Ballon D'or (age 26, only won once before), its truly great vision/prophecy, as there is no way one could predict it back then with Messi dominating the awards.
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I was saying Ronaldo has the cojones to accept a harder challenge.
also, feck off with the insults.
Messi is a coward, Ronnie is a warrior and true legend. Deal with it fake Barca fans.
no harder challenge joining a top 2 team. He was on the verge of going to city who had been dominating PL for years. Has nothing to do with cajones, money was a huge factor
Thats a bad guess, just a description for the incidence back then, nothing more nothing less.It is a poll on the internet, hardly warrants using the words disgrace and manipulation. I bet this poll keeps you awake at night with dread.
Of course money was a factor, but not a decisive factor.
Joining Manchester United is no harder challenge than joining Paris SG?
oh it is, but I don’t think Messi gives a crap for French trophies, Ronaldo joined Juventus who had won 8 straight serie a but winning the Italian does zilch for his legacy much like French league will do nothing for Messi. Psg didn’t even win their league last year. The real test is CL.
but I will say winning the league with united >>>> winning the league with psg
I'd say winning the domestic cup with united >>> winning the league with PSG though. As PL is so much better than French league, and Man Utd has to face much more tougher competition to win any trophy in England, while PSG also has a far better squad than its opponents in France. But sure if Messi manage to win CL with PSG, it will be huge too.
oh read the end of my post my friend, I did say winning league with united >>>>>> winning the league with psg
I wish we had them both in the same league. Maybe if the Messi fiasco happened a week sooner city go for Messi instead of Grealish. Will always support Barca as my #1 but Messi in the French league feels like he’s dead at a club level unless he wins CL
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Yes Messi to City would be great for PL, and revival of the great rivalry. Messi clearly just wants to win CL again for his move to PSG though, can't say its bad decision, as he has already won everything at domestic level with Barca, winning CL one more time would be great end to his career. But playing in French league week in week out is such a big waste of his talent and time. He still has it to win it at very top.
If you play 600 club friendlies/tour games, you should be able to count the goals. That is a lot of travel, a lot of effort and a lot of people chasing you and kicking you. Hard.
If you only play a handful then it’s understandable to not include them.
Club tours during Pele's time were not like the friendly stroll in the park we have today, those friendlies were intense and fiercely competed.
His time was different, obviously we will not be counting his goals scored in friendlies. But we do have acknowledge that during his time, his club Santos gave more importance to those money grabbing friendly tours, and thus leading to Pele playing mostly friendlies during a large period of time, when his team should be competing for Copa Libertadores. And those friendlies were not like pre season friendlies we have today.
Exactly. There’s no way that a player of his stature today would be playing in tour games instead of the Champions League for example. But it was a different time.
Someone should tell that to Poch as he managed to feck up both (albeit with Spurs instead of United).
Some friendlies can still get heated. Simeone nearly punched out Arne Slot after we beat Atletico in a friendly this preseason.
Though Simeone is of course a fecking nutcase.
Yes, I heard it on ESPN, that they had to skip some internal burocratic procedures to send the offer as soon as possible, but they knew it was almost a formality.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...s/man-united-ronaldo-transfer-latest-21434369
united only caved in to pressure
united only caved in to pressure
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