Messi has a 0.78 ratio while Ronaldo has around a 0.72 ratio
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Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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Messi has a 0.78 ratio while Ronaldo has around a 0.72 ratio
Ah thanks.
What jobs did they go on to after Barca Vs what jobs ancelotti and mou went on to?
Messi has a significantly higher goals per game average.
Messi has 748 goals in 929 matches.
Ronaldo has 783 goals in 1073 matches.
After managing Barcelona Rijkaard managed in Turkey and for Saudi Arabia, Martino managed in the MLS and the Mexico national team, Sampaoli has managed in Brazil and for Marseille while Luis Enrique manages Spain.
Meanwhile, Ronaldo's ex-coaches went on to manage Man Utd, Bayern, Chelsea, Real Madrid etc. All this shows is Messi's ex-managers (other than Pep) are not sought after, thus proving my point that Messi's managers are of a lower calibre than Ronaldo's, both before and after managing Ronaldo. None of Messi's previous managers have won anything since being Messi's coach despite managing in weaker leagues yet the likes of Ancelotti and Mourinho have won league titles for elite clubs after managing Ronaldo. Messi's ex-coaches wouldn't even get hired by these clubs
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In regards to Federer he is certainly more popular, but what Djokovic is doing on this current trajectory is so undeniable that Federer will be considered third all time when everything is said and done. If Djokovic finishes with 23 slams I think even his biggest naysayers will admit he's the GOAT. It is pretty much inevitable at this point.
That is ok, I have never took you seriously when you equated Mourinho with Valverde, Setien and Tito.
Actually I doubt even most of the CR7 fanboys took you seriously after that.
Fact of the matter is, after so much talking from you, you have failed to name even 1 manager who is equal or better than Mourinho, outside Pep, who has coached Messi. You have been avoiding this question because you know you have no answers.
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To be fair, it is only 1 of the CR fanboys. The rest aren’t that deluded
First off in no way shape or form is Setien a better manager than Moyes. Not even close.
Second, Ronaldo being a cheerleader is the most overblown narrative in Football for the past 10 years.
Ramos is a leader, Puyol is a leader. Ronaldo was the one being irked everytime Bale scored. Messi, like Ronaldo, sulks a bit when the chips are down. We've seen plenty of games where Ronaldo's teams get battered and he throws a hissy fit on the pitch.
Here are some things about Messi as a leader/captain:
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...aul-messi-surprised-me-he-enjoys-a-song-cards
https://www.givemesport.com/1544290...-and-argentina-star-proved-hes-a-great-leader
https://www.sportbible.com/football...-messis-leadership-skills-vs-granada-20210205
https://www.sporf.com/messi-stops-de-paul-from-mocking-brazil-following-copa-america-win/
Yet, I don't really buy that either him or Ronaldo are great leaders. I've rarely seen Ronaldo rally the troops at Madrid or Juventus. He and Messi tend to just play well to "lead" the team but neither are all that vocal with their teammates.
But the fact that they managed in weaker leagues doesn't mean they managed the strongest teams in those leagues, does it?! I mean...demonstrably not, as they didn't win them. So I'm not sure what them failing to win the league in weaker leagues means. Aside from them not managing the strongest team? Also...who cares?! So Ronaldo was managed by better managers. Agreed. Messi has had a club basically built around him and has never ventured outside of that safe bubble to challenge himself.
I'm not trying to argue that any ex Barca manager after Guardiola is a better manager than ancelotti or Mourinho but what I am arguing is that using 'Ronaldo was managed by better managers' is a dumb argument. You and others decry the 'Messi has never done it outside of a club and infrastructure built for him' argument but simultaneously use an argument as weak as 'well Ronaldo has been managed by better managers' as proof of your point. It's so stupid.
Just to be clear, as I say every time I venture into this cesspool of a thread (and vow not to get pulled in) I honestly have no preference between them, beyond liking Ronaldo for being ex united. Messi is better to watch for me but for my money, they're on a par.
It also shows you how easy it is to manage and win the league in La Liga aswell; a league that only consists of 2 and a half big teams a season. It hardly requires a great manager. It's why we wanted to see him tested in different leagues and different environments in the first place.
Leo Messi is much better than Cristiano Ronaldo
Agreed. Just C Ronaldo's achievements are more wow to me.
You're allowed to think it's a weak argument, personally I don't think it is as you only have to look at what the likes of Simeone, Conte and Klopp have done to see the affect a manager can have on the club's fortunes. There is no doubt Ronaldo's achievements have benefitted from being coached by a plethora of top tier managers. I think Barcelona have done a terrible job at recruiting managers and speculate that they, and in turn Messi, would have been more successful if they hadn't had years of mediocre managers overseeing the team. You call it weak, I call it obvious.
Bizarrely, you've put words in my mouth and for some reason stated that I decry people arguing that Messi has never done it outside of his 'safe bubble'. We were discussing managers, why you felt the need to invent an opinion about a separate subject and project it on me is an odd way to have a conversation but it seems you have a complex relationship with this thread judging by your post. It's not that deep my friend
Messi is a leader by almost most often being the best player on the pitch. But he's naturally introverted. Ronaldo leads by example on the pitch as well but he's incredibly self-centered and petulant and is fairly selfish on the pitch as well. Him taking up coaching on the sidelines in the Euro final for me seemed more than anything than him again being desperate for attention and to be in the spotlight once he couldn't play anymore. Compared to a lot of natural leaders that come to mind like Charlton, Cantona, Cryuff, Beckenbaur and Maradonna neither have the same natural charisma. They do ever however have to shoulder more pressure than any other footballers I've ever seen. I can remember Scholes and Ferdinand talking about the pressure of playing for Man Utd and how that pressure was nothing compared to Messi and Ronaldo who basically have to score each game in order for it to be considered an acceptable performance. And they have done it so long now.
Maybe now they can make the world cup an annual tournament until Messi wins it?
I wish people would cut him a break once in a while, not everything he does is for attention, you could see how much the Euros meant for him, and he always say this is the best trophy in his career.
great post
Maybe now they can make the world cup an annual tournament until Messi wins it?
okay I laughed
I have a complex relationship with this thread?! I think it's a ridiculous place full of adults fawning over individual football players and comparing them like top trumps. Also, you have the 15th most posts in this thread. Over 200. Good going...keep fighting the good fight!You're allowed to think it's a weak argument, personally I don't think it is as you only have to look at what the likes of Simeone, Conte and Klopp have done to see the affect a manager can have on the club's fortunes. There is no doubt Ronaldo's achievements have benefitted from being coached by a plethora of top tier managers. I think Barcelona have done a terrible job at recruiting managers and speculate that they, and in turn Messi, would have been more successful if they hadn't had years of mediocre managers overseeing the team. You call it weak, I call it obvious.
Bizarrely, you've put words in my mouth and for some reason stated that I decry people arguing that Messi has never done it outside of his 'safe bubble'. We were discussing managers, why you felt the need to invent an opinion about a separate subject and project it on me is an odd way to have a conversation but it seems you have a complex relationship with this thread judging by your post. It's not that deep my friend
I have a complex relationship with this thread?! I think it's a ridiculous place full of adults fawning over individual football players and comparing them like top trumps. Also, you have the 15th most posts in this thread. Over 200. Good going...keep fighting the good fight!
I enjoy posting in this thread and do so - they are the two best players of this generation and have been rivals for over a decade, it is natural discuss on a football forum, just as you see it discussed by players, managers and pundits all over the world. You however seem to be upset at yourself for posting in this thread and invented an argument and acted as if I said it, which I find rather odd. If you don't like participating in this thread, then don't, no use beating yourself up about it
Is it a bit weird to discuss two players on a forum in the internet with strangers? Yeah, probably. But I also think people who spend their time posting in a football forum to discuss their favorite club with strangers are also a bit weird and in no position to judge Just let people debate what they like. If some are more interested in players than clubs, so be it. Everybody has their own way of following football. I'm primarily interested in the sport not all the noise and tribalism surrounding it and Messi for my liking is the individual who plays this sport the best so naturally threads about him are very interesting to me. Don't get why that should be any weirder than somebody discussing United matters in here.
Just let people debate what they like. If some are more interested in players than clubs, so be it. Everybody has their own way of following football. I'm primarily interested in the sport not all the noise and tribalism surrounding it and Messi for my liking is the individual who plays this sport the best so naturally threads about him are very interesting to me. Don't get why that should be any weirder than somebody discussing United matters in here.You sure about that? These were just on the first few pages...
I think you overrate the PL, when Messi and Ronaldo were both in La Liga it was the strongest league in the world. You only have to see the points totals Liverpool and Man City have got since becoming top teams to see that and neither have players that are of Messi's calibre.
Because Messi was the best player on the pitch over the two legs - he scored two goals and created about 6 goalscoring chances. You picked a terrible example.
Messi created space by taking it past 2 players with 4 touches within a second. There's 7+ players ahead of Messi when he receives the ball and he takes it past half of them by dribbling.
Plenty of teams allow that space, the premier league isn't as unique as you think it is. If Messi can still score 2 goals and create various chances vs. Liverpool, a team that suffocates the space more than anyone else in the PL (or club football, probably), imagine what he'd do against Huddersfield or Bournemouth?
Yeah, if Messi went to Juventus and got outscored by 3 players (including a player who is 36) last season and was 12th top scorer so far this season it would be evidence that he can only do it for Barca/in La Liga yet this is actually used as proof that Ronaldo can do it in 3 leagues
Yep, this is very reasonable, fair enough. I'll bow out!Is it a bit weird to discuss two players on a forum in the internet with strangers? Yeah, probably. But I also think people who spend their time posting in a football forum to discuss their favorite club with strangers are also a bit weird and in no position to judge
Bless you for you searching through my posts from 2 years ago, pretty unusual behaviour from someone who likes to think they're above participating in this thread - how do you know my opinion has changed in the time that has elapsed since then? My point was you were foisting an opinion into the conversation which was separate from the subject being discussed. The discussion was about Messi and Ronaldo's managers, not Messi only playing for Barcelona.
You literally said that I was inventing an argument and acting as if you said it. Which I proved is untrue. I can quote where you said that too, in case you don't recall that either?! As for the discussion being about Ronaldo's and Messi's managers MY point (which I guess you somehow missed?) was that making an argument that flimsy and illogical was a bit rich when you decry the Messi comfort zone argument. Or do you now agree that that has merit?
I have a complex relationship with this thread?! I think it's a ridiculous place full of adults fawning over individual football players and comparing them like top trumps. Also, you have the 15th most posts in this thread. Over 200. Good going...keep fighting the good fight!
How do you see how many posts someone has made in a thread? I didn't even know that was a thing.
Top of the thread next to the 'watch'/'unwatch' button
Top of the thread next to the 'watch'/'unwatch' button
Thanks. I am 13th on the list of most posts in this thread. Embarrassing
Nah, it's one of the foremost debates as far as 'versus' conversations go and I've seen for myself just posting today how easy it is to rack them up! I shouldn't have brought up post count...not really relevant and a bit of a cheap shot. But it was in response to being told that I have a complex relationship with this thread so I wanted to point out to that poster the irony there (is it irony?! Never been good at figuring that out!)Thanks. I am 13th on the list of most posts in this thread. Embarrassing
Messi doesn't need to prove anything to anyone. I don't think anyone will be debating Messi v Ronaldo in 10 years. Nobody really remembers how many titles Ronaldinho won, but they do remember the magic.
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I think Lionel Messi is a better footballer than Ronaldo, even though I admire Ronaldo more for different reasons and for his connection to United and the memories he gave us. I think his drive and determination to compete with Messi is incredible.
But those using the Copa America as some sort of equalizer is baffling. It’s been completed devalued in recent years and it isn’t a patch on winning a Euros with Portugal. That is a far bigger and better achievement.
Sometimes people on both sides of the argument in this thread completely lose their heads and argue any point to make sure it equates with their opinion.
The Copa has been played 4 times in the last 6 years people, and Argentina are always the second biggest footballing nation in the tournament. Their terrible record is their own making. It doesn’t even come close to a Portugal Euros win. Try and be objetive no matter what your own opinion is and this thread would be far easier to have discussion in.
But those using the Copa America as some sort of equalizer is baffling. It’s been completed devalued in recent years and it isn’t a patch on winning a Euros with Portugal. That is a far bigger and better achievement.
Sometimes people on both sides of the argument in this thread completely lose their heads and argue any point to make sure it equates with their opinion.
The Copa has been played 4 times in the last 6 years people, and Argentina are always the second biggest footballing nation in the tournament. Their terrible record is their own making. It doesn’t even come close to a Portugal Euros win. Try and be objetive no matter what your own opinion is and this thread would be far easier to have discussion in.
yes but when you see how Portugal won their euros as the jammiest NT winner of the last 25 years while no other NT has made 4 finals in a row like Argentina did and I think Portugal winning the euro is very over valued if anything.
In terms of player base and tradition, Germany, Spain, France, England, Holland, Italy all rate above Portugal. That’s before you get into nations like Belgium and Croatia having great footballers too. You can only win the Euros every 4 years. It doesn’t really matter how jammie it is. It’s a massive achievement for Portugal to win one.
If you play in the Copa as many times as Argentina have with Messi in the side, you are literally one of the top two teams in the tournament every time, you should be winning it at least once. There is almost an expectation there, whereas there was absolutely none on Portugal to win something in their position.
Euros win for Portugal dwarfs a Copa win for Argentina in the current climate. In my opinion, it’s nonsensical to argue otherwise.
Naming them is irrelevant when they only had to play 1 of them on the way to winning the competition.
Portugal had the easiest run to a Euro final that we have ever seen.
Thats because they beat the teams that put them out! They are all in the qualifying and all in the tournament. It doesn’t matter who you play, whether it’s France, or the team that beat France etc…
Far more world class players, less tournaments to do it at, and traditionally teams that have won far more than your own nation have (which is absolutely nothing)
It’s a fantastic achievement no matter what their pathway was.
it's beyond idiotic to use Holland (which weren't even there), Italy, Germany and others in this particular context when they weren't the ones Portugal played against. Portugal were stronger than any team they faced on their way to the final, both in reality and on paper. they were also ranked higher than any of them. there was nothing miraculus in them reaching the final with that draw and in the end they faced the same number of "elite" teams as Argentina.
That is all well and good until you consider some facts:
1) When Portugal won the Euros, they played vs Iceland, Hungary, Austria, Wales, Poland. Croatia was the only decent side they played against until they met France in the final.
And the win vs Croatia was as lucky as they come. Straight after Croatia hit the post, Portugal score from a goalkeeper error.
2) The Only game they won in 90 minutes was vs Wales in the entire tournament. Had the rules not been changed, they would have not even have made it out of the group stages.
3 With Messi Argentina made to 5 finals including in the world Cup.
In 3 of the 5 finals ie 2014 WC/2015/2016 they were agonisingly close and with a bit of luck they would have won any one or more of them.
except Portugal avoided all of thosr teams except for France. In which Ronaldo didn’t play and Eder won it for them. Copa isn’t as big as euro but still enough to give Messi ballon d’or so obviously it means far more than you give it credit for
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